A pox on Lance Armstrong, USADA, and WADA

[Are_grits_groceries]

These two articles should give people a good look at most of the players in the Armstrong hot mess?
I do not believe Armstrong. That is my opinion after reading about him over the years.

However, USADA and WADA are cabals of officious people who are likely to make nonsensical and arbitrary rulings. They both should be disbanded and new people and guidelines put in place. That they determine anything more than what they want for breakfast is a crime against the competitors.

'The Case Against Lance Armstrong'
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1180944/1/index.htm

'Lance Armstrong doping campaign exposes USADA’s hypocrisy'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/lance-armstrong-doping-campaign-exposes-usadas-hypocrisy/2012/08/24/858a13ca-ee22-11e1-afd6-f55f84bc0c41_story.html

[madrchsod]

1. so lance was the only rider to dope?

ya right. he`s the only one they decided to make a case against.

[Are_grits_groceries]

2. I didn't say that.

The articles don't make that claim either. This is about Armstrong. An entire group could be opened in DU on the use of PEDs. That isn't the purpose of the OP.

I believe cycling is and has been rife with doping. Entire teams have been disqualified. WADA and USADA have taken action.

Armstrong is the person who they followed to the ends of the Earth. He defied them and dared them to come after him. Do I blame him for being pissed? No. However, pulling on the tail of those mooks was a mistake. I believe the very public back and forth doomed him. They were never going to quit.

They may have chased him anyway, but he guaranteed they would be after him with his public mocking.

He has always said he never tested positive. He has not said that he has never doped.

[joeybee12]

7. EVERY RIDER who finished second to Lance has been found guilty of doping

EVERY ONE.

That said, if you're going to taken hearsay and have absolutely NO physical evidence to tie Lance to doping, then every rider in every Tour has doped.

[Are_grits_groceries]

9. Did you read the SI story?

USADAWADA says they have results from drug tests. They may be the ones mentioned in the article.
They have indicated that there is some more than testimony of other riders. They have also said that they will release their evidence.
This I want to see.

[obamanut2012]

11. I sincerely doubt it

If the Feds didn't have the evidence, USADA doesn't. And, that's the rub. USADA has zero oversight, and is a PRIVATE organization who is acting as a kangaroo curt far beyond its allowed mission. USADA have even ignored their own rules and protocols to go after Armstrong (ignoring their eight-year statute of limitations, going after only current athletes, etc.). You cannot allow an organization to do that, especially one that acts as jury, judge, and appeals court, and one that threatens witnesses, and refuses to allow the defendant to have evidence discovery. Remember, after a TWO-YEAR Federal investigation, the Feds dropped the case because they wasn't enough evidence to go on.

The Outside article I posted explains all of this, and every US citizen should be worried that our tax dollars are being used like this.

I will also be greatly surprised if UCI/The Tour/CAS strip Armstrong of anything. Oh, and US Cycling, too. None of them agree with USADA, and they are the only ones who can strip LA or ban LA. Period.

Oh, one last thing: the USADA is basing their case on "non-analytical evidence," ie hearsay and testimony by already-discredited witnesses. They have zero physical evidence. None.


I am not even saying whether or not he doped. It doesn't matter. What matters is due process. People bayed for Casey Anthony's blood, for example, but there wasn't evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for a first-degree murder charge. The DA's office kept trying a do-over, until they were told to just stop. Just because someone may be guilty doesn't mean you just change all the rules until you can find them guilty. You can't do that.

[joeybee12]

14. +1

I think I'll cut and paste your reply to every new anti-Lance article...

It really bugs me that because some kanagroo court that most people have never heard of take their word as absolute truth. Sheep.

[MH1]

25. Totally agree with this: "What matters is due process"

The process here has been A JOKE.

I also agree that I don't know if Armstrong doped or not, but my impression over the years has been that everyone in the sport of cycling does it, so I just don't give a shit. What's he done with his winnings? Set up a foundation to help people. He's retired now and I just wish they'd leave him alone and figure out how to clean up the sport going forward.

Also, I don't know about how his cancer ties in with it, but wouldn't it be possible that some treatments for cancer would violate normal doping rules? This might just be me being clueless, but I think if a guy beats cancer like he did, I don't care what drugs he used to do it.

[joeybee12]

16. See #11

No, I didn't read it...and right now all that is really out there is what Tygart is feeding the media...he's a right wing asshat...there needs to be some distance from all this to actually assess what is going on...and, quite frankly, I bet he doesn't have blood samples if the FBI and Justice Department didn't have them. Tygart will never produce them, I'm betting, but his lies are out there and people take those lies as fact.

[madinmaryland]

26. It's not HEARSAY anymore joeybee. Lance Armstrong IS A DOPER!!

[Honeycombe8]

8. That doesn't matter, does it?

If you're speeding down the freeway and get a ticket, is it a defense that another car was speeding, too? To the contrary, that's an admission of your guilt.

If you murder someone, is it a defense that Ted Bundy murdered more people than you did?

[obamanut2012]

13. You can't just give someone a ticket because you think they were speeding

I think that's a better analogy here.

[Honeycombe8]

17. You can, when there's evidence. There's evidence.

Just because you like someone, it doesn't mean they get a free pass.

If Armstrong were a mean, RW Republican, many who feel sorry for him would be happy he has lost his titles.

How you feel about the alleged perp shouldn't enter into it.

[joeybee12]

22. I heard of someone who told me someone else was speeding...

Therefore he's guilty.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

3. Why is this not in the Sports group?

[obamanut2012]

4. I personally feel the Lance Armstring posts should be in GD

This isn't just about cycling or the Tour. Lance Armstrong is a non=sports public figure, and this situation is a POLITICAL one, which goes against the Constitution and laws of the US, and the rights a US citizen has.

[DanTex]

10. What does the constitution have to do with the way that a sports organization...

...controls for cheating? I agree it should be in GD just because it's front-page news, or at least it was a few days ago. But this is about cheating in a bike race. It's not like Lance is being attacked for his political opinions.

[obamanut2012]

12. You have to be kidding me

Just because you don't like Armstrong doesn't mean that, as an American citizen, the Constitution doesn't apply to him. The Feds know this, which is why they dropped their TWO-YEAR investigation. However, a private organization, using our tax money and SERVING AS A STATE ACTOR, is ignoring the rights of every American citizen, and also breaking their own regulations and rules and the accords of the WADA treaty.

Where did I say he was being attacked for his political beliefs? Link please.

We get it: you don't like Armstrong. I loathe Casey Armstrong, and still think the jury's verdict was right, because proof for first-degree murder wasn't there. It doesn't matter if someone is guilty if you can't prove it. You can't keep changing rules and laws and venues until you get the result you want.

[DanTex]

20. LOL. Of course the constitution "applies to him", but

the constitution doesn't protect him from being sanctioned by a sports organization for cheating. USADA isn't trying to send Armstrong to prison, they are stripping him of his Tour de France titles and banning him from cycling. And Lance Armstrong agreed to USADAs authority to enforce the WADA code when he became a professional cyclist.

Armstrong tried to go to court to stop USADA, but the judge dismissed the case. He had his day in court. What constitutional rights do you think are being violated?

[joeybee12]

23. Yeah, due process is so over-rated...nt

[obamanut2012]

5. Here's a good article explaining how the USADA's tactics are illegal

And unconstitutional, regardless of whether one feels Armstrong is guilty or innocent.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/celebrities/Lance-Armstrong-Victim.html?page=6

[Honeycombe8]

6. I think he doped. But why they didn't reach that decision years ago...

and ban him then, when it mattered (his cycling career is over, now, at his age - he's moved on), I don't know.

But I think there's no doubt that he doped. Too many of his compadres have testified to it, etc.

But apparently the doping worked. He won a lot, made a lot of money, became rich and famous, so now it doesn't matter if he's banned or whatever. He has reaped the benefits of his physicians' concoctions, as well as his hard work.

But they really should catch this stuff BEFORE a race. When it matters.

[aikoaiko]

15. As a casusal oberserver of this sport, I wish there were finality in the testing.

I oppose cheating, in general, but I also support analogous concepts of "statute of limitations" and "double jeopardy"

[BlueinOhio]

18. American Way

Cheat, take advantage, deny it ever happened, say your sorry you got caught and then have everyone justify it by saying everyone just wants to make a buck.

[grantcart]

19. Wow. The SI article is particularly damning.

Now it appears that he was not only doping but that it could have caused his cancer.

[joeybee12]

24. He had cancer before he won all the titles...I think he had one then was diagnosed...

Not having read the SI article, if that's the conclusion, then it's definitely a POS article.

[ellisonz]

21. GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY