About officially lying in public.

[Cleita]

Everytime I post about this, I metaphorically am drawn and quartered, but here I go again. Something has to be done about the lying by our politicians, our media, and our religious leaders. How do we make them honest? I'm all for fines when any of those people tell lies when they are speaking officially and in their professional capacity.

Okay I'll cut the religious guys some slack when it comes to their official mythology like the Bible or Koran, but not outside of that nor of making up stuff that isn't in those official tomes. Should politicians should be put under oath not to lie? I believe so and they should pay the consequences if they do lie when they speak in their official capacity as Senator so and so and tell blatant lies. The media definitely needs to be held to standards of providing more than one source for their stories and to practice some journalistic integrity like telling all sides of the story not just one or be fined in a way it hurts.

We just can't survive as a species if we allow all this laissez-faire lying to go on. It's ruining us as a species and it's ruining our home planet.

Okay, start throwing stones but be gentle.

[Bluenorthwest]

1. First, absolutely refuse to accept lies and liars in all walks of life. It's not just politics, it's

the entire culture that shrugs of pernicious lies and the obvious malign intentions of such lies. 'It's just business' or 'it's just stuff on the internet' or 'all politicians lie' are excuses for mendacity and there is in fact, never a reason for mendacity. DU should stop welcoming known liars who tell lies on DU. That should be a ppr. But it's not.

[Cleita]

2. I was thinking more of politicians etc. who lie on the airwaves rather

than the average DU troll. However, I agree in refusing to accept lies, but it seems the majority of people aren't able to filter the lies like the average DUer can. That's why I believe we need a harsher solution, but what? What can we do without turning this into a police state?

[Angry Dragon]

3. Lose a week's pay and one day in jail for each lie

[Cleita]

4. That would hurt.

The one week's pay would hurt a middle class liar and the day in jail the rich liar.

[Angry Dragon]

5. That would be for politicians, reporters, and government officials

and anyone running for office would automatically lose the election, because that is the same as filling out a job application

[cthulu2016]

6. No nation could survive that. None.

I am with you emotionally, but if public officials were always considered under oath while acting in an official capacity it would lead to a downright Stalinist use of the thing.

Never believe that any human process is incorruptible and never assume yourself, or your point of view, to be in the majority... let alone a perpetual majority. And even if in the majority, is it certain whatever system develops will support that majoity view?

It is impossible to outlaw lying except in very narrow instances. And if this is American law, then the speaker has to know and believe he is lying.

(For starters, a president would flirt with impeachment for high crimes every time he opened his mouth.)

[Cleita]

10. Maybe an oath might be a bit extreme, but some way of making them

think twice before they deliberately deliver the lie.

[Odin2005]

7. Americans want politicians to tell them what they want to hear...

...not what they need to hear. That's why Reagan beat Carter. Jimmy told people the truth and they didn't like it.

[Cleita]

11. Yeah Jimmy was too honest.

He probably needed a little showmanship with his truth like Reagan had with his lies.

[JaneyVee]

8. This might be a good idea for televised debates.

[Cleita]

9. Anything, that could rein in the

wholesale fibs and disinformation.

[HeiressofBickworth]

12. Here's why I'm so resentful of lies

In our form of government, we the people have the opportunity to make choices. If we are fed a steady stream of lies about politicians, policies, etc., we are deprived of our right to make choices. It's only with full information are we able to make real choices. Lies are contrived to trick us into supporting one issue or person over another. Lies are manipulations.

[Cleita]

15. Yes, and if the politicians lie, shouldn't the reporters, who are supposed to keep them

honest, not lie as well?

[Mmm_Bacon]

13. Even the conceptual means of enforcing this boggles the mind...

[Cleita]

14. We enforce other things like not stealing.

Why would not lying be different? I'm not talking about everyday lies, but when an official gets up in front of the public, who are relying on them to tell them what is going on and deliberately tells a lie, there should be a consequence. When your local police spokesman lies about a criminal case to the public, in their official capacity, often they lose their job. Yet, the lying politician suffers no consequences at all. The lying church pastor who lies to his congregation gets no consequences nor does the media person people rely on for information. How different would things be today if Bush/Cheney hadn't lied us into invading Iraq? Those guys should be in prison today for war crimes, but they are not.

[Mmm_Bacon]

18. Just walk through the idea...

That would be an entire new arm under DoJ. A new ministry of Truth ...

Of course there is proof as well. Let's say you magically unicorn wished everyone you want into a court for telling a lie.

Your team pulls out your proof and they will get to pull out theirs and the judge decides. You'd have to prove intent...

In the end a judge has to decide, subjectively, who could be politically ideologically motivated.

I saw that you included the media in there as well. Want to include editorials in there? What about commentary? Do you want someone hauling up Maddow in front of a court when they have "another point of view?"

This is impossible to codify or enforce and would cause society to screech to a halt because we would all be sitting in court all day.

[Cleita]

19. This is my deal. I want injunctions to be very narrow and very few in order to not sink into

Ministry of Truth territory. Actually, as far as the media, if there is a BIG LIE there being promoted on the editorials, should it be allowed to continue and should we just let them lead the public down the yellow brick road? Funny enough, the Egyptians are asking the same questions. Ever since they got rid of Mubarak and much of his regime, there is a Rush Limbaugh like hate radio personna that has arisen and who is spreading propaganda, lies and hate. The Egyptians are questioning what to do about this. They specifically mentioned that they didn't want to become like the USA, yes like us and they also don't want to go back to the days of state controlled media. They are trying to figure out how to handle this.

My thought, is that whatever is done it would have to be after many infractions that have been proved to be lies and only in a specific venue and only by a person who has a responsibility not to deliberately spread disinformation like that, a politician, a clergyman or a media person, and then and only then is the perpetrator brought forward to explain themselves and receive a warning. Yes, explain themselves. I would say there should be a jury of the people to determine if in fact there were deliberate lies told over and over again. I wouldn't allow it to be just a decision of a bureaucracy, like a ministry of truth. I would make it very hard to convict a person of this, but not impossible. In this day and age it's impossible.

Oh about that Egyptian radio person and Rush, I wouldn't bring this under that umbrella because they aren't true media persons that are distributing the news. Neither is Rachel Maddow or any of the other talk show hosts, like Beck et al who deal in opinion and entertainment. If we kept those other public officials with the responsibility of keeping to facts honest, it would neutralize pretty much what Rush et al are bloviating about and let the public know they shouldn't be taken seriously, like wrestling.

[JBoy]

16. Sadly, that's the role the media is supposed to play.

One of their functions is to make the act of lying more "expensive" than telling the truth.

The media has completely failed in that regard.

[Cleita]

17. We don't seem to have a media anymore just

a commercial cheering squad for the lies they want us to hear. Sure there are the obscure news sources we at DU habituate, but the mainstream American is just getting fed Fuckedup News and its clones all the time.

[librechik]

20. despite the immense power of "big lie" propaganda, eventually the internet will make it impossible

to amplify small lies into truths. People just aren't literate enough yet to smack it down completely. There is too much confusion. They haven't figured it out and neither have the campaigns.

Yet . But they will, and soon.

(I hope!)

[Cleita]

21. I hope so too or our country and maybe even our planet is doomed.

The Koch brothers and their fellow industrialists may end up accomplishing what Hitler couldn't in spite of his success with the BIG LIE.

[librechik]

22. I just keep reminding myself they are only a small minority, maybe 25%

but they scream so loud they look more powerful than they are. All their successes come from trading off the special privileges we allow minorities in the US.

Having huge bank accounts make them look bigger, too. They can buy votes, but fewer and fewer as people become more informed.

It's a race to the finish. Can we destroy their credibility in time to save the planet?

We'll try valiantly. But I'm afraid the odds are in their favor. We can beat them this year, but every year that goes by their secret, global powers grow. Can we hold them off forever????

[Cleita]

23. The problem is they influence a large portion of the low information

voters. I can't believe the shit I hear on a daily basis from people who got it from the radio, newspaper or their local representative. Most of our local officials are Republicans and they tell the most egregious lies and everybody believes them and votes for them. Then they do stuff that is harmful to both community and planet. Even when I try to set them straight, they don't believe me cause they heard it from Assemblyman so and so or radio personality "talks a lot of crap". Sure why would they believe me? I'm nobody, but they trust the liars because they are somebody.

[Bandit]

24. I believe America is a nation of LIARS

Probably the most Lying nation on Earth and not aboput to get any better. Politicians have found out Lying helps their cause and NO ONE will hold them accountable...

[Cleita]

25. Your last sentence says it all and it will be that

way forever or until they are held accountable.

[RKP5637]

26. I agree with you, there are way too many outright lies now. Somehow, it needs to be

brought under control. In essence, politicians are hired to do a job, they should not be rewarded for outright lies and distortions. Again, I'm not sure how this would be accomplished and what the penalties would be, but I'm OK with the concept.

[meem222]

27. At least under oath

Cleita, I completely agree with you! The lies by Politicians are destroying this country. Watching bits of the RNC was sickening. And the worst part is there are a great many Americans who believe the lies of the GOP. The way I see it is, we the people of the USA are consumers of government. We pay for government and we should be protected. The same laws of Consumer Protection should apply to politicians. Swearing them in, under oath is a great start. Why are the American people not protected when it comes to the Government? The pathology of lies is extremely dangerous to our health, life, and way of life.