Are we a police state yet? House to house search of a whole neighborhood for... wait for it...

[Duer 157099]

marijuana plants! Yes, SWAT teams, flash grenades, the whole nine yards, looking for PLANTS.

Holy shit, we have arrived.

Authorities target illegal pot grows in southwest Santa Rosa sweep

About 150 federal and local law enforcement officers began sweeping through southwest Santa Rosa Wednesday searching 32 homes for illegal marijuana gardens.

The officers, many helmeted, carrying shields and wearing miltiary-style fatigues, were accompanied by a large FBI armored truck and SWAT vehicles.

“We just looked into this neighborhood and literally, probably every back yard but two or three have a grow,” said sheriff’s Lt. Dennis O’Leary. “Our goal is to go in there to rid the neighborhood of these, what we think are probably illegal grows.”

The rest of the disgusting article here:

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120926/ARTICLES/120929653/1350?Title=Authorities-target-illegal-pot-grows-in-Santa-Rosa-sweep

[porphyrian]

1. Didn't Ross Perot want to do this in Texas, and everyone called him crazy?

Did they elect him in California?

[mikki35]

20. Just academic curiosity.

Looked up what I could find:

"He has, for example, denied that he ever suggested, as he was widely quoted as saying, that minority neighborhoods should be "cordoned off" so that police SWAT teams could conduct house-to-house searches. Those comments, purportedly made during off-the-record meetings with Dallas police officers and newspaper editorial boards, provoked a storm of criticism from black and Hispanic leaders here after they were reported in 1988. Although he did not object to the remarks attributed to him at the time, Perot recently has suggested that Laura Miller, columnist for the now-defunct Dallas Times-Herald who first reported the comments, had engaged in "flights of fantasy" and questioned her professionalism.
Yet other journalists have said they recall Perot saying the same thing. James Ragland, a former city hall reporter with the Dallas Morning News now with the Washington Post, recalls being at a meeting with Dallas police officers at which Perot suggested the police "ought to just go in there [high-crime neighborhoods], cordon off the whole area, going block by block, looking for guns and drugs."

"When somebody asked, 'Doesn't that present a constitutional question?' he said, 'Look, I'm sure 95 percent of the people who live there would support this,' " Ragland said.

Perot's critics say such comments are not out of character with other rhetoric, often confusing, that he has employed. In recent interviews, Perot has repeatedly said that cleaning up the nation's drug problems "won't be pretty" without explaining what he had in mind."

For more, [link:http://www.textfiles.com/drugs/perofasc.txt|

[ieoeja]

28. A claim made by multiple journalists who claimed to have witnessed it.

The "black neighborhoods" part of one witnesses claim appears to be in question. They may have been talking about a neighborhood that just happened to be primarily black, and that one witness engaged in a little spin. But they all agree on the rest.

Why are you so intent on defending Ross Perot?

[Raster]

31. somebody push your Ross Parrot button????

"eeyacckk...look for drugs...look for drugs"

If your stating Mr. Parrot would not say or condone something like that, I beg to differ.

I lived in Dallas 1981 through 1996. Parrot was EXTREMELY anti-drug, a bona fide control freak, and in the news constantly lecturing everyone about everything.

I had friends that worked at EDS in the early 80's when Parrot still owned the company he founded. Dress code for men: WHITE starched shirt with tie mandatory, slacks, belt. For the ladies: conservative dresses, skirts if not too short. No pantsuits for ladies, nothing to contradict proper ladies attire. And yes, if you did not meet inspection, you were sent home to change with a warning on your personnel record. Oh yeah, and just to be clear, the workforce at EDS was OVERWHELMINGLY white.

What do I bring up Parrot? He was one of the first in Texas - if not the first - to drug test employees for no reason. When the first purge happened one fine day, EVERYONE at EDS - without warning or without probable cause - was required to do the whiz quiz, at a time when most people had never even heard of urine analysis. Anyone with anything out of the ordinary in their piss was fired on the spot and escorted off the premises under guard.

And I do remember Parrot talking about going home-to-home in "questionable neighborhoods" without probable cause, to look for drugs. Not in Parrot's neighborhood of course, fashionable North Dallas' Preston Hollow, home to many of the Dallas rethugican zillionaires, and most recently Pickles* and G-Dumbya*.

[porphyrian]

40. You have a lot to say about something you don't care about.

Luckily, I don't care about what you have to say.

[Raster]

42. You know, I don't recall saying that I have some animosity towards Parrot.

I've reread my post. Nope. Not there.

Have a nice day.

[LanternWaste]

57. I often find that when we care enough to say "I don't care"...

I often find that when we care enough to say "I don't care" , it's because we actually do care to one degree or another... or we simply need a hug.

[freshwest]

60. Whoa, did not know this. But it's been all over for him for years politically.

There are the public faces and the private faces. I think some will find it hard to give up on Perot because of his 'populist' anti-free trade rhetoric and severe criticism of the Bush family. Others may give him a pass for his age.


Your first hand experience shows a person who would not do well in today's political climate with the major exception of baggers and theocrats. While that is what a number of people in this country will get voting for R/R, I would find it hard to believe Perot would go against the social safety net, be for starting wars, etc. The rest of what this sounds like, is plain old fascism.

He was an interesting third party candidate. Bye, Ross...

[vlyons]

51. I remember Ross Perot

He made it possible for Clinton to win. He peeled off just enough Rep votes. He booked time on TV to lecture us with flip charts and graphs. The thing that I remember and liked best was when at some point, I exactly remember when, maybe when he named his VP? -- anyway, he ended a press conference with Patsy Clines' rendition of "Crazy" and then danced with his wife on the stage. In that moment of his life, he was a happy man.

[ieoeja]

25. First one I found....

Perot called for new wiretap powers for police, a system to rate judges according to the severity of drug sentencing, and cordoning off black neighborhoods in Dallas for house-to-house searches for drugs by hundreds of police.

He has called for declaring martial law to combat the drug trade. He says, “You can start dealing with the problem in straight military terms.”

Source: Strong-Man Politics, by George Grant, p.111 , Nov 7, 1992

http://issues2000.org/Celeb/Ross_Perot_Drugs.htm

[girl gone mad]

110. Sounds like many of his ideas have been put into action.

That is not surprising since he was a CEO and our government is now basically controlled by corporate interests.

[ieoeja]

116. Wait? This is not 1992? Then why are you so adamantly defending Perot?

And who suggested the Santa Rosa police were influenced by Perot? The poster just noted that Perot once supported this very same idea.

Given that Reagan left political circles in 1988 while Perot was still running in 1996, I guess that means Reagan is really off limits, huh?

Seriously though, why are you so adamant to defend a hard right demogogue like Perot? He pretty much disagreed with Republicans on a single issue. While Republicans abandoned protectionism of American businesses in favor of multi-nationals, Perot could not get his head wrapped around the idea that protectionism now hindered rather than helped the largest American businesses.

He correctly predicted that NAFTA would send jobs overseas, but given his anti-labor track record, it would be foolish to think he was worried about the American workers. He was worried about competition from foreign business owners. In that, he was badly mistaken.

Why would anyone bring up Perot at this point? Well, this is a Democratic site. Perot was and is a hard right demogogue. An outlandish bit of news contained something that someone once remembered a hard right demogogue supporting. So he mentioned this bit of trivia.

And you have some mysterious problem with that.

[porphyrian]

26. Attitude much?

I asked about it because I vaguely remember it. I don't feel a duty to do research for you, whoever you are. Sit down, Francis.

[brewens]

106. I heard him say something like that on Larry King. I believe it

was when he debated Al Gore on the show. When asked about the drug problem, his answer was to build a national consensus, cordone off city blocks and search house to house. I don't remember him specifying Texas on that show.

[HiPointDem]

119. good to deflect criticism of present law enforcement & politicians, though

[Laurajr]

2. WTF

our hard earned tax dollars at work

[msongs]

4. police need to get a real job nt

[xchrom]

5. How much did this 'search' cost? Nt

[Bandit]

9. Probably they will make money after they confiscate all those houses and cars etc..

Isn't that what happens when they find a growing operation?

[hifiguy]

13. That's the entire point. nt

[shanti]

62. exactly

one of the major reasons for the WOD. this is sickening.

[socialindependocrat]

6. With all the good things we're hearing about the stuff...

the authorities are afraid that if too many people smoke
it will have a negative effect on Doctor's salaries and the need
for large hospitals!

If too many people are in good health it will have a negative effect on the economy.

Another way the Repukes are supporting Pres. Obama's reelection.

KEEP IT UP GUYS!!!!

Headline: Obama is showing a surge in the polls because the police make people sick (pun intended)!

[Patiod]

21. Nonsense

Absolute and utter bullshit.

The health care industry in this country is doing a lot of crap things, but supporting strict marijuana laws isn't one of them. I've actually investigated the potential market for a cannabinoid-based pain killer for an ex-US pharma company, and doctors raised a lot of really good issues about why they would NOT be interested in a pharmaceutical-grade cannabinoid-receptor agonist except in narrow, specific circumstances.

People who already smoke marijuana (like many of my actor friends) may want to treat their diseases with marijuana, but the average person isn't going to want to go to their 9-5 jobs high, and isn't going to want their kids or grannies getting high in order to treat various diseases. Adult cancer patients who can't work? Sure. Adult cancer patients who are still working? No. Grannys with arthritis? No. Workers with chronic back pain? No. Anyone who needs to stay sharp and focused? No. Anyone with lung issues? No.

Where are the bulk of health care dollars spent? On old people at the end of their lives. Trust me, I just spent a month with my dad in a geriatric unit and in a hospice and if you're on oxygen, slightly confused, at risk for a fall, etc etc etc, smoking pot is not really going to help your end-of-life issues OR your quality of life. Marijuana isn't going to replace surgery, neonatal, telemetry units or ICUs. So "big hospitals" aren't exactly worried about competition from marijuana.

The prison unions, the prison corporations, and police departments that are getting rich from confiscation are behind keeping the laws insanely strict.

[thc420]

24. You're right, sort of...

...it's the Big Pharma. Do you think they want ma and pa to be able to grow some plants to help with sleep, arthritis or some other ailments it helps? HELL NO, and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it illegal. If it ever does become legal it will be mass produced by Eli Lily or some other mega pharmaceutical company. It will never be legalized in this country until we get big money out of politics.

[Patiod]

44. Not sure Big Pharma wants that market

Seriously - Big Pharma has spent money exploring if there's a market for marijuana-based treatments, and other than for out-of-work/retired/disabled cancer patients, they just don't see a demand for it from doctors because of the side effects of "potential confusion or disorientation" which would exist even when it's massed-produced, standardized and diluted. Doctors really worry about being sued if someone falls or becomes confused from Rx cannabinoid agonists.

And I'm not sure Ma and Pa who think that smoking to help with sleep, arthritis or other ailments are a big enough market for pharma companies to worry about in terms of competition. They're under way more threat from the quacks selling tiny bottles of water labeled as "homeopathy".

I am sorry to be so argumentative about this, but I service the pharma industry, and know how they spend their money, and marijuana isn't on their radar like the new health care regulations, changes in Medicare and Medicaid, changes in laws about buying from Canada/Mexico, and changes in insurance are.

As someone who lives with a marijuana user and worries daily about cops confiscating our car or our house, I am strongly, strongly, strongly for legalization. But we have to identify our enemies on this - again - the prison/industrial complex and warped ways of funding law enforcement - and go after them hard. Chasing the wrong enemies (health care and pharma) is just a waste of time, effort and resources.

[socialindependocrat]

37. You take things very literally - don't you? Bazinga!

Sorry, there was a post a few days back about two researchers. One worked with agressive cancers and the other did research with a cannabinoid extract that had no - would you say psycho-motor effects?

They mixed the extract with the mutating cells and the mutations were arrested.

Sorry, I went off on my effort to make a joke and
I didn't explain the additional information I had read about.

Thanks for putting so much effort into your response

and

Sorry to hear about your dad...

Later.

[Patiod]

46. Thank you sweetie

I work with Big Pharma, and conspiracy-type stuff about their evils makes me nuts when there is so much REAL stuff to be upset about in terms of their undue influence on our legislation. So I do go nuts about it sometimes!

[tama]

58. My brother-in-law

worked in Big Pharma at top executive level and made no secret - without giving much details - that it's organized crime. He left that game to become ordinary pharmacist.

[truedelphi]

64. Well, how do you explain that last spring, at the height of Obama's DEA & DOJ

Attacks on medical marijuana clinics, that the local No Calif newspapers themselves told the readers who wanted medical marijuana not to worry - that very soon, as long as they had a legal prescription, they could obtain the medicine from a pharmacy in Great Britain!!

So that invalidates what you are saying. The Big Pharma people do not want to lose one single penny of profit to someone growing the stuff in their own back yard.

The Biog Pharma people have spent over a decade isolating the various properties of various cannibinoids. They aren't doing this for the sake of science, but so they can patent different strains of cannabis for different ailments. Those patents cost them money, Big Time, and they have just about every elected official supporting them in doing this.

The people will have to lead on this issue, because the "leaders" are far more interested in their campaign contributions from Big Pharma.

[Gregorian]

7. Been there, done that, in 1995.

I'll spare the whole story, but it was copters, humvees, men in berets and camo uniforms marching all over my neighbor's property, AND MINE. It was a small army of multiple agencies. And the neighbor who was a fire fighter with two small children and wife, was a good person who had a couple of pot plants. I wonder how much money AND fuel we're using in order to do these counterproductive things.

I never thought the drug war would last six months. Boy was I shocked. People are stupid. That is the only conclusion I can come to.

[librechik]

8. Once again I say: Who is really in charge at Justice? These guys do the opposite of what Obama

wants and ordered on a regular basis. Obama needs to clean house badly in the DOJ.

[leveymg]

29. I'm afraid, this is exactly the opposite of what you want Obama to order.

He managed to get many of us on various issues to believe that he said, or lent the impression that he promised things we wanted that he didn't really promise.

If someone has a link to a reliable quote of video of Obama actually stating he will deescalate the war on drugs, and stop raids on residential growers or dispensaries, I'd like to see it.

[librechik]

43. mark, what do you think of The Ogden memo? and the subsequent walk back under Cole

"There was a time when Penn’s statement was correct. In 2009, Deputy Attorney General David Ogden issued what is now commonly referred to as the “Ogden Memo.” In it, Ogden announced that federal prosecutors “should not focus federal resources . . . on individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana.” Thus, if a state permits individuals to grow their own marijuana for personal medical use, DOJ would not prosecute them. The memo also announced that federal officials should not focus on people who provide marijuana to patients in compliance with state law — prosecuting “those caregivers in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law who provide such individuals with marijuana, is unlikely to be an efficient use of limited federal resources.”

Less than two years later, however, DOJ significantly walked back the Ogden Memo. A 2011 directive from new Deputy Attorney General James Cole reiterated that “it is likely not an efficient use of federal resources to focus enforcement efforts on individuals with cancer or other serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law, or their caregivers,” but it also defined “caregiver” narrowly to exclude “commercial operations cultivating, selling or distributing marijuana.” In the wake of the Cole Memo, several United States Attorneys offices brought federal law to bear against marijuana dispensaries — even dispensaries in full compliance with state law"

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/09/05/801421/kumar-doesnt-understand-obamas-marijuana-policy/


Me, I think there are way too many Bushies and RWers in the Justice system and we need to change the balance--Obama doesn't seem able to deal with the situation, or doesn't know the extent of the problem. Is that possible?

[leveymg]

69. Agency policy statements aren't binding, and are just a snapshot of the overriding politics of the

Administration at the moment.

It's clear to me that the Obama White House has generally moved Right over time, and will probably continue to do so. Other than delivering for a few, select core constituent groups, expressions of populist and progressive idealism seems to be reserved for campaign mode (which we are now in). Otherwise, the heart of the Obama Administration is really Business as Usual, and preserving the authority of traditional institutions - which is why they won't prosecute Wall Street and CIA crimes.

The last thing this White House is going to do is upset or challenge the authority of law enforcement and the intelligence community.

[99th_Monkey]

45. Obama said in 2008 that he "would not use DoJ to circumvent State MM laws"

[librechik]

39. right--not Obama. It's a problem.

[librechik]

50. yeah--could it have anything to do

with the invisible coup that occurred over 9/11 when "everything changed?"

I think those unnamed persons from the MIC rule us and we don't even exactly know that they do, or who they are. We do know our democracy doesn't work right any more. (if it ever did)

Generals mocking JFK behind his back during Cuban Missile Crisis caught on tape...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021414805

[glinda]

76. You have hit the nail on the head. I think he doesn't know that

things like this are used to intimidate people. The person in charge of this needs to answer for this.

[barbtries]

10. i'm afraid we are.

this must change. what a waste of resources!

[Tsiyu]

11. We don't have money to feed poor kids, they say. Our cities are broke

There's no extra, they say, to fix crumbling bridges and overpasses, to repair disintegrating schools.

We don't have money to pay for more kids' college, to pay our soldiers a decent wage, to pay for daycare for working mothers.

We don't have money for low income housing, for indigent health care, for senior centers.

We are broke, but suddenly become spendthrifts when it comes to rounding up SWAT teams to combat a plant.

Amazing and very telling about our society's priorities.

[Patiod]

22. Well, when police departments funding gets cut

and yet they can keep money and cars and property from drug confiscations, then you cause them to aggressively looking for these sorts of sources of income.

Makes sense to me.

Clearly the confiscation laws have to change, but good luck with that. Not a cop in the world that would vote to kill that golden goose.

[Tsiyu]

32. I agree

It's a win-win for the cops, and a lose-lose for America as a whole.

When you give people a lucrative incentive to destroy the rights and privacy of others, rights and privacy will go the way of the dinosaurs in no time.

And that's where we are....

[truedelphi]

65. And how can voters change things within the electoral system? Both the

One Big Money Party candidates are for keeping drugs illegal, and the alternative candidates can't win.

And the following stroy shows me yet again, why I must insist on pot and everything else being made legal:

My spouse cut out a story yesterday that someone on FB sent him.

About a year ago, A vet from our two wars was shot SEVENTY ONE TIMES while SWAT teams scoured his house for plants, or a baggie, or even crumbs of an illegal substance. He died unarmed, and there wasn't anything in the house they could find! Paramedics were not allowed to attend to him, until an hour after his death. SWAT folks needed to clean up some of their activities at that house.

[FirstLight]

12. no warrants, no checking to see who has a license

“Our goal is to go in there to rid the neighborhood of these, what we think are probably illegal grows.”

wtf?

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. Check out this link on the very page linked in the OP

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120925/ARTICLES/120929663

Santa Rosa police critics question legal defense of officer in 2007 killing
By KEVIN McCALLUM
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 at 3:00 a.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 at 9:14 p.m.

Critics of the Santa Rosa Police Department called for a full accounting of the city's legal defense in the fatal shooting of Richard DeSantis and said the officer involved should be fired.


A small group of activists addressed the City Council on Tuesday, five days after a federal jury found a Santa Rosa police sergeant violated the civil rights of DeSantis when he fatally shot the unarmed man outside his Roseland home in 2007.

They urged the city not to continue spending money to appeal the case, which is five years old and has already been petitioned to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"I think we need to cut our losses and move on," said Robert Edmonds, an outspoken critic of police on issues ranging from use of force to gang prevention...

[jonesgirl]

15. It's noted in the article the area is under "heavy gang influence", so maybe this was the easiest

way for law officials to get a better look in the houses.

[Duer 157099]

18. So what does that say about our judicial system

that it is easier to get search warrants for plant growing than for suspected weapons/gang activities?

[bvar22]

101. That is CODE for...

...an area predominantly occupied by MINORITIES.

[Iliyah]

16. There are illegal pot growers, but thats not the problem.

The problem in the eyes of the law is the amount of money that goes underneath the radar - tax purposes. Billions are probably made throughout the country. Here in Los Angeles they had a major sweep of a lot of Medical Marijuana shops and some survived and some did not.

I think that in the near future medical marijuana will become legal once the government both federal and state figure out how to control and tax it, just like alcohol. Its my opinion tho, but it is a damn shame that these raids are happening with licensed medical marijuana shops.

[existentialist]

19. I wonder if the Santa Rosa police are in cahoots

with the Mexican drug gangs and are assisting them in trying to reduce the competition.

[Dawson Leery]

27. Glorious "law enforcement".

It is not worth defending this pigs.

[Riverman]

34. Need to Fill Local County Jails in Calif.

Jerry Brown is sending State Prisoners with lower crimes to serve time in local jails where there are shortages of bed occupants and paying the counties for the "service." More Sheriffs arrest folks, the more those convicted and sentenced to state prison wil bounce back to the County jails run by ... guess who? The Sheriffs, of course. All players in the Industrial/Prison Complex.

[redqueen]

36. "what we ***think*** are ***probably*** illegal grows"

[truedelphi]

66. Sadly since in legal terms Fed law trumps state law -

Each of the houses where marijuana is being grown has committed a crime. Doesn't matter if the home owner has a medical marijuana prescription. Doesn't matter if they did everything according to the state laws.

Fed law trumps state law. If we want that to be changed, I have no idea of how to do it. Both Big Money Party candidates insist on keeping marijuana illegal.

[dixiegrrrrl]

70. I still don't get why Homeland Security and Immigration stooges were also in on the raids.

Is this a heavily Latino neighborhood? Are they targeting illegals, and using the pot bust as an excuse?

[truedelphi]

73. Study Nazi Germany - The Powers that Be are taking a Page right out

Third Reich Playbook -

They are pretending how they are only after the Latino community and its "Gang infested" areas that they are trying to make us think of as being mostly Latino. Pooirer neighborhoods in Santa Rosa are very diverse - you re likely to find people from Eritrea, the Phillipines, The Congo as well as Latinos in a California poor neighborhood. Please keep in mind that Santa Rosa is to gang kingdoms only slightly more than Disneyland would be!

But just as the Powers that Be went after our jobs one job field at a time, first the low paying textile jobs, then the auto industry, finally the health industry and computer and tech fields, so they are doing to the growers.

I can't tell you how many people I know in Lake County (To the North and East of Santa Rosa) who really think if they grow their six plants in their upscale home, they won't be bothered. And of course, they won't be, right now. But since after the election there will be even less reason for the Guy in the WH to use his kid gloves, I keep trying to tell people to realize that you shouldn't do the "crime" if you can't do the time.

And right now, in this corporate-owned nation, growing medical marijuana is a crime. Punishable by confiscation of every asset you have, and jail time too.

[southernyankeebelle]

41. Well I live in a rural area. We have helicopters fly over often. I assume that is what they

are looking for.

[CanonRay]

49. What an assinine waste of police resources.

[april]

53. this is so crazy...who cares let people smoke & grow. what a waste

[bvar22]

54. Meanwhile,

...War Criminals, War Profiteers, Wall Street Criminals, and destroyers of America's Working Class are honored and rewarded.

[Octafish]

78. Odd, isn't it?

LIBOR was in the public consciousness long enough to be knocked out by animal attacks and Tom Cruise.

[KurtNYC]

83. Yes -- Bernie Madoff is awfully lonely at Club Fed.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. This is what happens when you have budget cuts and Federal dollars given out for marijuana busts.

Lower the taxes coming in.

Put the city in financial dire straits.

Dangle free money for being narcs specifically against weed.

Bingo, the entire focus of the police becomes anti-weed.

We could do the same thing if we offered free money for being anti-anything.

I say we offer free money for being anti-corporate crime and see what happens.

[ReasonableToo]

81. Second nt

[dorksied]

56. Some day we'll have it legalized. Support for it keeps growing.

[Demoiselle]

59. It must be nice to live in a neighborhood

where the only criminal activity is photosynthesis.

[harun]

63. Assholes. Go look for real criminals to terrorize.

[treestar]

67. Look if you don't like the laws, work to change them

But it's not a police state if they are trying to enforce a law on the books, and if they have a warrant.

[FiveGoodMen]

68. You might have an unauthorized recording of an NFL game in your house

Who knows?

We might need to barge in and search the place.

It's the law, right?

[treestar]

74. No, they'd have to have a warrant

[Gabi Hayes]

75. dream on

google warrantless searches

[treestar]

98. Some warrantless searches are legal

And if your conviction is based on an unconstitutional search, or even a questionable one, you can take it to the courts. Therefore, no police state.

[Comrade Grumpy]

105. That's a pretty naive view of the criminal justice system.

About 95% of all criminal cases never make it to trial, so no opportunity to appeal.

Some people plea bargain because they are indeed guilty of the offense charged, others plea bargain because they can't afford to defend themselves, and others plea bargain because the risk of losing is too high. ("Go to trial and we'll charge you with an offense with a 10-year prison sentence; agree to this deal for a lesser charge, and you'll only do two years.&quot

In many, if not most, cases of illegal searches, there is no effective real world recourse.

[treestar]

107. No one is forced to take a plea bargain

There are colloquies to prevent it, even. They are asked has anyone forced or threatened them. Everyone has a right to jury trial, and a right to counsel and government provided counsel if they can't afford it. Therefore, no police state.

[Comrade Grumpy]

118. You've got to be kidding.

The "therefore, no police state" mantra aside, you are describing the system in its idealized state, not how it actually works.

"Has anyone forced or threatened you?"

"No" (well except for threatening to convict me on stacked counts and seek the maximum sentence if I don't cop to a plea)

"Were you provided a public defender?"

"Yes" (after spending about 30 seconds on my case, he told me to cop a plea)

Maybe not a police state, but not a very just criminal justice system, more like an assembly line into the grinding maw of the gulag.

[Dems to Win]

92. So, you are recommending a vote for Gary Johnson? That's our option to express support for

ending these asinine garden raids. That's what we can do now to fight to change the laws. Voting Democrat won't change a thing, as we can see.

I'm mad enough at this moment that I'd vote for Gary Johnson if the election were today.

[treestar]

99. No, I'm recommending not exaggerating

This is a country where one can work to change the law. It is not a police state.

[Dems to Win]

103. And the way to change the law is....vote for Gary Johnson. Voting for Obama is a vote for more

of the same, which certainly quacks like a police state.

[treestar]

109. The US is not a police state

Exaggeration is exaggeration. President Obama is not head of any police state. Even Bush wasn't. And you cannot advocate third party voting on this board near the election. Especially right wingers.

[Comrade Grumpy]

93. We're working on that. As for "not a police state"...

150 combat-uniformed state, local, and federal cops, SWAT vehicles, flashbang grenades for a mass neighborhood bust...well, it just feels kind of police statey, ya know.

I wonder if they are state or federal warrants.

If state warrants, how do they know these aren't legal, permitted medical marijuana grows?

If federal warrants, really? You're sending in the feds to tear down a few backyard gardens?

[treestar]

100. All of those issues can be addressed in the courts

Therefore, no police state. As to what feels "police statey" what wouldn't? A cop is a cop. Whatever technology they have here, they may well have in actual police states.

[Comrade Grumpy]

104. I wonder if you would feel that way if it were your neighborhood.

One cop feels like one cop

150 combat-uniformed, heavily-armed cops in a neighborhood feels a little police statey to me.

I'm not going to play semantic games about what constitutes a police state. I will say that the operations looks like a heavy-handed effort to intimidate a largely minority population. Call it what you want.

As for the issues being address in the courts, well, I guess they will. But in Sonoma County, medical marijuana patients can grow up to 30 plants in a 100 square foot space. The cops say they seized 300 plants at 32 grows. That's an average of about 10 plants.

If they are being arrested on state warrants, did the cops verify their patient status first? Or is it arrest first, ask questions later?

If they are being arrested on federal warrants, all I can say is you've got to be kidding me. This is how we want our federal law enfocement dollars used? Busting back yard growers with a handful of plants? That's just embarrassing.

[treestar]

108. Federal law enforcement dollars are used to enforce federal law

If you don't like that law, that's another story. But while it's the law, there is nothing "police state" about enforcing it. And all defendants have the right to counsel, the right to appeal and the right to speedy trial by a jury of their peers.

In real police states, that does not happen.

[robinlynne]

71. I WISH these 150 federal agents were working to stop election fraud!

[MrMickeysMom]

121. Amen!

How absolutely absurd this has become.

[Downtown Hound]

72. Shit, this is several blocks away from where I live!

Yeah, I've been noticing the increased flyovers from porkchoppers in the sky in the last few months. What's scary is I've got five legal plants growing upstairs in my closet. In the event that I was raided, I could show them my medical card, which allows for up to 30 plants. Even that doesn't fully protect me. If the pork patrol wanted to, they could charge me under federal statutes.

Nonetheless, fuck the police for even wasting time on this shit. U.S. out of my damn neighborhood!

[Dems to Win]

77. If the election were held today, I'd vote for Gary Johnson. And No on Prop 30

I used to live in this neighborhood. I am incensed at the obscene, criminal waste of money and resources for this raid. I am shaking with rage at the idea of flash grenades being used in the search for gardens.

If the feds and local governments are so flush with funds that they can afford military assaults in residential neighborhoods, they don't need any more of my money.

I DO want schools to have more funding -- they should get it from law enforcement!


I may calm down by the election, and vote for prop 30 (Gov. Brown's tax increase to fund schools). I might vote for Obama after all. But they won't be happy votes. I'll remember this.

[Comrade Grumpy]

80. Your presidential vote is a freebie in California.

Obama will win the state, of course.

Where angry marijuana people could make a difference is Colorado, where the feds have been shutting down dispensaries, pot legalization is on the ballot, Obama and Romney are in a close race, and Gary Johnson is running hard on the pot issue.

[mike_c]

88. please consider my personal appeal that you support Prop 30....

I teach at a California State University campus. What was once the "people's university" and the envy of the world has been increasingly privatized by funding cuts. We've bled until there's nothing left to bleed. Today the people's university turns away qualified Californian students because we have no seats for them and too few faculty to teach them. The situation in K-12 is even worse, as they cannot limit enrollment and so must simply lower educational quality. You cannot imagine how frustrating and discouraging that is.

We NEED Prop. 30 to pass. If Prop 30 fails, schools and universities in California will decline even further, and the rate of decline is accelerating because the budget cuts have been so deep for so long. It's time to tax the rich just a little bit more to help our schools.

If you've read this far, thank you for giving me a chance to make my case.

[Dems to Win]

89. Thanks for the reply, you made your case well. I will vote yes on 30, of course, now that I'm a bit

calmer. Truthfully, though, I don't expect it to pass.

And, it is not just the rich that will pay more. You and I will be paying higher sales tax -- a very regressive tax.

I still think schools should get money from law enforcement -- the pot raids and enormous numbers of police at Occupy encampments tells me that we are spending WAY too much money on police. I don't want to give another dime to police for bigger weapons, but that will happen with approval of Prop 30.
The money is both for schools and 'public safety.' Grrrr

[mike_c]

96. understood-- I'm NOT a fan of Brown's fiscal policies in general....

One way to express that distaste is to vote YES on both Prop 30 and Prop 38. If both pass, the one with the most votes is the one that will be implemented. Unless I'm mistaken Prop 38 earmarks the entire $10 billion in extra tax revenue for education, although that still leaves more general fund money to divert to "public safety." I plan to vote for for both.

[Tigress DEM]

79. Without a warrant it's illegal search and seizure.

[libodem]

82. To protect and serve

Their own interests and each other.

[bemildred]

84. "They hate us for our freedoms." nt

[FiveGoodMen]

85. Exactly!

[Octafish]

86. Projection

Revealed the Real Killer. Er, Culprit. Er, Suspect. Er, Us....

[Blue_Tires]

87. Are we a police state yet? Remember these gems from the archive?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3057177

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x449687

[Duer 157099]

90. Today's follow-up article

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120926/ARTICLES/120929653/1350?Title=Illegal-pot-gardens-targeted-in-Santa-Rosa-sweep

Law officials, who suspected gang involvement with at least some of the gardens, arrested 13 people on a variety of drug and weapons charges and seized more than 300 plants from 32 locations, said Sonoma County sheriff's Lt. Dennis O'Leary.

...

Some residents disagreed with the depiction of their neighborhood as a gang stronghold, or authorities' assertion that gangs were involved in the gardens. Many of the backyard growers were low-income residents who smoke some pot for medical needs and sell the rest to make ends meet, they said.

“Some have disabilities and it's a way to make money,” said Joyce, who said he smokes it for chronic pain. “They aren't gang-related.”

Those statements in bold are what I believe to be the actual case, given the area and what I know.

Fuckers.

[Downtown Hound]

91. As someone who lives there

I can assure you that authorities are GREATLY exaggerating the problem. Are there some gangs around here? Sure. But it's hardly a ghetto. I walk around my streets after dark all the time, never had a single problem. The real reason this neighborhood was targeted? It's predominately Latino. I'm actually a minority here for being white. And it's not something that bothers me in the slightest. My neighbors are friendly and wonderful.

Replace the word "gang" with brown every time the authorities use it, and you have the real reason they came here.

[Comrade Grumpy]

95. They get money from the feds to "fight gangs."

But they apparently didn't have any real "gang activity" to shut down, so they do this bullshit mass sweep of dime-a-dozen pot grows (that are all probably legal under state law anyway).

Smedley Butler famously said that war is a racket. Well, the drug war is a racket, too. With our tax dollars.

[Comrade Grumpy]

94. Wait, what? They seized 300 plants from 32 locations?

That's less than 10 plants per garden. In Sonoma County, where Santa Rosa is located, you can grow up to 30 plants or fill a 10 x 10 square foot space. That's for one patient.

This is looking more bogus by the day. This is looking like harassment of a poor, predominantly Latino neighborhood.

I live nearby in Sebastopol. You can't drive on the back roads around here without smelling pot. We had a friend's dog get loose in the hills west of town. My girlfriend went looking for him and found two different gardens in ten minutes.

They haven't come after my rural garden. But then, I'm a middle aged white guy.

[mike_c]

97. it is unambiguous harassment....

Agreed, 100 percent.

[cr8tvlde]

115. Ah, Furlong Rd. I'm homesick. Send the CAMP folk to the Red States.

In the past, I thought it was a Bush Administration kneejerk. But it's trying my lifelong Democratic soul. Sherrif Arpaio is going to need a new gig, send them to Arizona.

[limpyhobbler]

102. War on marijuana = War on the people. nt.

[sarcasmo]

111. Prohibition doesn't work, legalize now!

[cr8tvlde]

114. Santa Rosa, 1 1/2 hour north of SF is very Blue and this is the "poverty" section of town. Bastards.

Almost entirely Hispanic...pendejos. We should follow this up with a rally and a door-to-door bilingual Registration Team. Only problem is, that it's "Obama's Feds" that they see. He better get a grip on the fact that California has legalized marijuana for small amounts/personal use and leave the dispensaries and back yards the FU## alone.