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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHillary Clinton Warns US AGAIN: "It's like the frog dropped into the water. It's boiling."
Hillary Clinton can draw a straight line from her duels with conservative media and Republican politicians in the 1990s to the January 6 insurrectionand she fears worse is coming. Theres always been a kind of paranoid streak in American politics, the former secretary of state told Atlantic staff writer Jennifer Senior. But it never was given such voice, such a platform, or had so much money behind it until we saw the rise of the right-wing radio voices like Rush Limbaugh and we saw the rise of Fox News. And then, of course, the internet just put it on steroids.
She blames the tech giants for facilitating the rise of conspiracism and Republicans for exploiting fear and suspicion in a quest to permanently seize political power, whether as an obstructionist party in Congress or by undermining and overturning elections. Referencing moves by state legislatures to change election laws and congressional Republicans who objected to the election results earlier this year, Clinton said not enough Americans are taking the danger of a constitutional crisis seriously: Its like the frog dropped into the water. Its boiling. People are still arguing about stuff that is important, but not as fundamental as whether or not our democracy will be broken and then taken over and minority rule will be what we live under.
Link to tweet
?s=20
triron
(22,104 posts)Autumn
(45,146 posts)JudyM
(29,402 posts)All hands on deck. This is no time for mavericks, or selfish manipulators, or whatever they are.
Autumn
(45,146 posts)That is the biggest problem we have.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)It provides cover for greedy self centered politician's like Sen Yacht and Sen 'Spa Weekend'.
Dirty money is the reason for our troubles today...an authoritarian regime would cement this corruption into our political way of life.
I do have hope, but it is going to be a long hard bloody fight, just like the Union organizers had in the early 2oth century.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)You're right of course about needing to be prepared for a long, hard fight if necessary.
But see Nancy's take about money below. Where classes exist so wealthy that democracy is seen as a problem and even insult, dirty money will also. And add to that the fuel provided by the fear and rage of the socially conservative minority who are trying to create a national conflagration, from which they'll rise.
Autumn
(45,146 posts)andym
(5,457 posts)of politicians is already mainstreamed by many citizens in the US. That's one reason Trump became President, because he embodies these values to a large slice (not a majority) of Americans.
SO even if Citizen's United decision was overturned and folks learned who was doing the influencing, many would gladly accept the influence of the rich and powerful.
CU=Citizen's United decision
Hillary Clinton is correct: Rush, talk radio, Fox News and social networks together have created a powerful right-wing movement to lead the United States to fascism, and minority rule.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)Besides.
BUSINESS is NOT any type of person.
PEOPLE are persons.
PEOPLE deserve free speech and equal representation.
Corporations buy enough as it is, but elections at least should have the integrity returned by overturning CU.
https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/contribution-limits/
PAC here refers to a committee that makes contributions to other federal political committees. Independent-expenditure-only political committees (sometimes called Super PACs) may accept unlimited contributions, including from corporations and labor organizations.
ONLY the ultra rich and corporations can send vast amounts into these super pacs and ultra rich are limited as an individual donor while corporations don't have that kind of limitation.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,144 posts)TigressDem
(5,125 posts)MuchBetterThanThis
(34 posts)The warring factions in this mess is also on progressives too for the wanting it all or nothing approach in this mess.
We all know Sinamanchins role but the blame isnt just on them. Dems just dont March in lockstep like Repubs, and expecting that is the root of the division we see. Dems are diverse
Autumn
(45,146 posts)say they do but that's on them for their own lies . The progressive Caucus all support Biden's agenda. It's the 2 and a few other moderates they are giving cover to.
meadowlander
(4,425 posts)Autumn
(45,146 posts)FoxNewsSucks
(10,488 posts)progressives asked for over 6 trillion. They've already compromised at 3.5, and allowing corporate-wanted things into the infrastructure bill.
They are living up to the deal they made. This current problem is solely being caused by conservadems, two in particular.
SunImp
(2,230 posts)OMGWTF
(4,063 posts)Duncan Grant
(8,316 posts)Withywindle
(9,988 posts)Sinema is beholden to future lobbyist money. (I don't think she likes being a Senator. I will be surprised if she even runs for re-election. She'll take a much-higher-paying job as a lobbyist after her term is over, see if I'm wrong)
Manchin is beholden to fossil-fuel money. He will always bow to that. I'm old enough to remember when WV was an AGGRESSIVELY Democratic state, because the mine workers' union was strong. Seriously. WV was one of only SEVEN states that voted for Dukakis in 88. It only became as aggressively right wing as it is now because the unions were shut down. If you want to turn a state blue, you need to support unions. The working class now is people working in retail, food service, and other jobs that are generally minimum wage. We need to support them - and yes, that means working hard for minimum wage increases EVERYWHERE.
Hillary Clinton has no power over anyone anymore. Which is a terrible shame, because she's probably the best qualified Presidential candidate of my lifetime.
It's like asking Al Gore or John Kerry to reign in some young congressperson.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(150,263 posts)when there are so many of them.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)If we don't stop the framework from being destroyed, arguing about the balls in play will be moot.
THAT is the real danger she is speaking to, and with our short term minds people have a real hard time looking at the long term Big Picture.
Humans are creatures of habit and don't react to change very well or very quickly unless they are goaded by the Paul Revere's of the World.
After all, the game has been played by the same rules for decades, if not centuries...why worry?
Kudo's to Hillary for being a Paul Revere...however we need many many more.
I know you are one, thanks!
kinda already are
bluestarone
(17,360 posts)TRUTH!!
paleotn
(18,144 posts)Seems we're already there.
yonder
(9,718 posts)Jon King
(1,910 posts)The mega corps make tons of money under Dems or Repugs, but they need stability. If MAGAs succeed then its a matter of time before the majority revolt. Its one thing for them to lie about an election being stolen from them, but quite another for lets say 83 million who vote Dem in 2024 to literally have their votes stolen.
At some point the majority that legitimately had their votes stolen will revolt. Mass strikes, protests shutting down colleges, the entire country destabilized. In that situation, mega corps no longer can make money, the kids and grand kids of the executives no longer can attend their Ivy League schools and then get amazing jobs from their connections.
Seems to me the mega corps who run the world would much rather steer the Repugs back to just being tax pricks like the old days. This idea that the MAGAs can steal an election and the country just goes on is ridiculous.
I truly do not get why these mega corps are not pulling the funding. They make plenty under Dems but will make nothing in a destroyed America.
Response to Jon King (Reply #15)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
TigressDem
(5,125 posts)US vs THEM.... all those immigrants are stealing your jobs, people on welfare are going to bankrupt the country while sitting on their arse and watching you blue collar folk working like crazy. IF WE GIVE OUT HEALTHCARE, everyone's going to have to wait in long lines and never get treatment. PROPAGANDA from Rush and FAUX is bad, true... but the REASON for propaganda is more sinister.
HOW can you sway people to the facts and truth, if propaganda says the truth is a lie and the lie is the truth? And things get so locked down, no one knows anything for sure any more?
Think about how difficult any real revolution would be in Russia where the media is controlled by the state and then realize who tRump was getting all his advise from about how to destroy the US and make it in his own image.
Walmart has walked away from tRump.
Military has walked away from tRump.
Many have.
But the damage to our system is still causing Democracy to be on life support.
EVERY Election counts. EVERY vote counts..... IF we can actually get our votes counted and not thrown out by all the new laws that say only certain people can actually validate the votes and if they don't like who won, they can over turn it. **
Not to mention all the voting restrictions that keep being pursued to keep people who should be able to vote without having to go through hoops to do it.
**
https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jul/14/are-state-legislators-really-seeking-power-overrul/
WELL not exactly, but it seems to be the point of monkeying with validating elections when the system is pretty clear cut and redundant as is.
Cosmocat
(14,630 posts)Best I can try to get a handle on it is that being an R is like being in the cool kids club to these people - there just reached a point where people get completely brain washed by all the evil liberal bullshit and lose any sense of reason because libs embody all that is evil and wrong wit the world to MOST of this country, who are two weak minded to know they got programmed, even REALLY smart and savvy people.
I don't get it, but there it is.
iluvtennis
(20,032 posts)Cozmo
(1,402 posts)Clinton: I read that article and I have to say I largely agree with it, because Im not sure that many people and this includes obviously the public, but also the press fully appreciate the determination, the relentless pursuit of power, the design of minority rule that we are currently watching happen. I won the popular vote, lost the Electoral College by 70,000-plus votes, and we saw all this stuff online about the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks and the Russians and all of that. And then Joe Biden won by a huge popular-vote margin, but only won the Electoral College by about 100,000 votes. So the parallels between what happened in 2016 and 2020 are not often understood. And why thats important is, the Republicans and now we have to say the Republican Party, not just the Trumpers and all of those who are part of this effort to undermine our democracy, but the Republican Party were shocked that they lost, because they never thought that they would lose by such narrow margins and, we know, accurately and legitimately in places like Georgia or Arizona. So what are they going to do now? Now theyre not only going to try to suppress votes on steroids; theyre going to try to change the way elections are determined. Theyre going to try to give legislatures the power to basically throw out elections if they dont go their way, because now they want to be able to win, even if they lose the popular vote and they legitimately lose the Electoral College.
Senior: What do we do? Are there legislative fixes? Would you end the filibuster?
Clinton: Yes, absolutely. Because keeping the filibuster now, when youre dealing with a political party that does not respect the rule of law, does not even respect the process unless it works for them witness what they did to Merrick Garland when President Obama had every right to appoint a Supreme Court justice. You see what they are trying to engineer by using the filibuster, but also equally important, what theyre doing in the states right now. I did an event last night with Tyler Perry and Lin-Manuel Miranda and Sally Yates in Georgia to try to raise money for the people on the front lines, trying to overcome the legislative obstacles that are being put in the way of casting your vote. But the new part [is] having your vote counted, because they want to replace independent people like we saw with the Republican secretary of state in Georgia who stood up to tremendous pressure now they want to throw elections, if they can, either to state legislatures or if necessary to the House of Representatives, where the vote is counted by state. We are in the middle of a constitutional crisis. Its like the frog dropped into the water. Its boiling. People are still arguing about stuff that is important, but not as fundamental as whether or not our democracy will be broken and then taken over. And minority rule will be what we live under, the norm.
TeamProg
(6,630 posts)Evolve Dammit
(17,073 posts)DLevine
(1,788 posts)Boomerproud
(8,044 posts)Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)She is absolutely correct.
"Clinton said not enough Americans are taking the danger of a constitutional crisis seriously.."
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)Hillary is probably the most savvy, intelligent and cool-headed candidate who ever ran for the office. Most experienced? Pretty close. Her being a WOMAN is the biggest drawback she's always faced. Hopefully the cracks she's put in the "Glass Ceiling" is already benefitting the women following her.
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)Cheers!
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)The damage over the past few decades is evident in the unchallenged lies believed by the GOP voters.
andym
(5,457 posts)Even had the Fairness Doctrine survived, it only applied to broadcast TV and radio. Such laws would not pass constitutional muster on privately owned cable and the internet.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)had unchallenged access to con people into believing lies. We knew it was happening and everyone seems to have undervalued the damage that was being done to the county in the process rather than implementing ways to combat it... So lies and twisted truths went out on tv and over radio and no one stopped it. People assumed it must be true if people were allowed to say it...
I saw Hillary talking at a conference once about why she didnt fight the constant lies said about her - she said it was a judgement call...if she had spent her time fighting she would not have had time to get anything done for the country. I totally understand her decision - but in hindsight I think we should have taken better steps to counter all the lies in some way or another - the far right played a very long con on their voters and it is going to be hell to untangle...
kentuck
(111,242 posts)People should listen to what she is saying.
pecosbob
(7,621 posts)They were positively giddy.
andym
(5,457 posts)A very effective tactic, once an entire ecosystem to support propaganda by the right has been built. The question is what can be done to weaken it.
triron
(22,104 posts)MustLoveBeagles
(11,772 posts)The question is, will enough people listen?
roamer65
(36,752 posts)bluewater
(5,376 posts)nancy1942
(637 posts)unfortunately not enough people are even paying attention anymore. Hilary is correct and I'm afraid the country is already doomed. I find it all horrifying, but is seems like the majority of people just ignore it and go about their lives totally unconcerned.
Kid Berwyn
(15,597 posts)As long as we dont, they will be free to continue their evil.
Beacool
(30,258 posts)She's extremely intelligent and always well prepared. She doesn't pull statements out of her backside, like Trump. She reads, studies and analyzes issues before making pronouncements. That's one thing she and Bill have in common, two brilliant people.
Democracies are a slippery slope, hard to obtain and easy to lose.
Cha
(299,188 posts)Shit about the Big Picture.. only their Own EGOS!
Rt TY