Once again PETA shows they have the same IQ as all of Free Republic...

[Archae]

[former-republican]

1. .

[jmowreader]

2. I have eaten dog. So I guess turkey is okay for me.

[Flabbergasted]

221. That deserves credit. Funny. nt

[uppityperson]

3. If you wouldn't beat your dog to death, why swat a mosquito?

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Because there are different levels of consciousness.

Dogs and Turkeys are way closer to our level than a mosquito. Also, I kill mosquitos because they are harming me.

However, if you would eat a dog, why not a human?

[WooWooWoo]

25. too much fat

watching my cholesterol

[Warren Stupidity]

27. You could raise lean free range humans.

[madinmaryland]

29. Soylent Green, my friend, is very tasty!!

[hack89]

51. For today's consumers it would have to be Soylent Brown

they won't eat it if it doesn't look deep fried and tastes like bacon.

[LadyHawkAZ]

169. Hey, *something* has to replace those deep fried Twinkies! n/t

[AgingAmerican]

134. We already have free range humans

We call them "The homeless".

[Gore1FL]

203. They are kind of gamey tasting. n/t

[AgingAmerican]

253. Try barbecue sauce!

[uppityperson]

161. Also, the ad says "your dog" and "a turkey". I have less problem eating animals that aren't "my" pet

I cooked a store turkey last night, though our 4 yr old small turkey still lives with our chickens. She has a name and is a pet, so I won't eat her.

The mosquito isn't causing much harm. Can you not afford to give 1 tiny drop of blood to save her life? Oh! The Huge Manatee!

If you consider that there are different levels of consciousness, you may notice dogs and turkeys are not on the same level as humans. That comparison is a silly as my mosquito one.

[Bake]

162. For that matter, turkeys aren't on the same level as dogs ...

Big difference in brain size there ...

Bake

[TalkingDog]

167. With some fava beans and a nice Chianti? Sure.

n/t

[BlueMan Votes]

192. turkeys are marginally closer than a mosquito...

but even so- at what level of consciousness should an organism be considered too self-aware for us to eat...?

[Warren Stupidity]

249. tool making cockatoos

alex the parrot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7yGOgs_UlEc

[Logical]

261. Dogs do not know they are alive or will die. Correct?

[Art_from_Ark]

269. Dogs seem to have a pretty good idea of when the end is approaching

I think they are cognizant of their existence.

[4th law of robotics]

273. You've never interacted with a live turkey, have you?

[Warren Stupidity]

275. Quite frequently.

The wild variety are my neighbors. I'm sure you have a point, but perhaps not the one you think you are making.

[4th law of robotics]

282. Wild ones are not in question

And you know that.
The ones raised for food are just slightly above potatoes when it comes to intellect.

[PavePusher]

289. I consider my turkey to be beside the potatoe.....

and the dressing, and the squash, and the steamed carrots....

Equality for Turkey Now!!!!

[4th law of robotics]

291. Steamed carrots?

Never!

Sure god created all sides equal. But some sides he created more equal than others if you know what I mean.

[Warren Stupidity]

301. just so I understand your point here:

wild turkeys have a level of consciousness that places them "not in question" (whatever that means) but their domesticated cousins have somehow dropped down the consciousness scale to the point where they are "slightly above a potato".

Have I represented your argument correctly?

Your claim is that domesticated turkeys have had the consciousness bred out of them?

seriously? That is an astounding claim. As such it required evidence to back it up. Absent that evidence I can only conclude that you are making a claim merely to provide a convenient excuse for consuming domestic turkeys without guilt.

[4th law of robotics]

304. Clearly you don't understand:

wild turkeys have a level of consciousness that places them "not in question" (whatever that means)

No, the not in question bit refers to the fact that we aren't talking about wild turkeys. That was a deliberate attempt to change the conversation on your part.

their domesticated cousins have somehow dropped down the consciousness scale to the point where they are "slightly above a potato".

Selective breeding, how does it work? (for instance: are all dog breeds possessed by exactly the same level of intelligence?)

Have I represented your argument correctly?

BWahahahahahahaha!

No. Turkeys were never really aware. Wild ones are a bit smarter than domestic ones. That's all. But they're both still pretty dumb.

Like I said: you've never interacted with a live turkey. Otherwise you wouldn't by trying to claim such things.

seriously? That is an astounding claim. As such it required evidence to back it up. Absent that evidence I can only conclude that you are making a claim merely to provide a convenient excuse for consuming domestic turkeys without guilt.

Without guilt? Ha! Not everyone shares your fetish for eating plant matter.

By the way . . . where do your vegetables come from? A farm by any chance? One that used to be grassland or forest? What do you supposed happened to the poor animals that lived there when it was plowed under to provide you with "guilt free" spinach?

Self awareness: Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to reconcile oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals.

So far only humans, some dolphins and apes, and elephants have been shown to be self aware. A few animals are on the border and have conflicting results. Turkeys are nowhere near that.

[Warren Stupidity]

307. so your new claim is that only "self awareness" matters and that we need

not concern ourselves with the pain and suffering we inflict on all the other animals that do not exhibit the level of consciousness categorized by self-awareness.

You continue to assert that there is some distinction between wild turkeys and domestic ones, continuing to claim that if one were around caged food-turkeys, one would have a different attitude. I've been around farm turkeys and understand why one would feel like that, but I've also been around chickens raised as pets, and there is a world of difference, but the difference is not in the animals themselves it is in our experience of them.

I agree that all of our food choices have consequences. We should be more aware of those consequences and strive to make ethical choices. It is not amazing to me at all that several people here hostile to vegetarianism post arguments about the horrors of plant consumption, but that is really an old and tired argument. If you are actually interested, the jainists laid out the basics of how one can think about making ethical choices, understanding that we will have to fail to cause no harm, but that we can, as conscious reflective self aware beings, make the best choices available to us. They did this circa 800 bce. Nothing much has changed other than more of us live in post scarcity societies where such choices come with minimal inconvenience.

[biohazard9550]

166. That's a very good question

Hmmm..

[hrmjustin]

214. Welcome to DU!

[polichick]

4. Actually, they're just presenting an inconvenient truth...

...in a rather original way.

[Raine]

6. Agree nt

[Confusious]

14. It's not really a truth

We don't generally eat "helper animals"

Dogs, cats, horses, donkeys, oxen.

Everything else is fair game.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. All of those are food to some people.

[Confusious]

30. "generally speaking"

In Asia, it's common to eat dog, probably less so cats.

Horses, probably another matter altogether.

Western tastes, we don't eat them.

[Warren Stupidity]

58. The french eat horse a lot.

So do other 'western' cultures.

[Confusious]

75. Very few

The grain to meat conversion of horse is worse then cattle.

I said, "generally speaking" a couple times to mean I was saying "there are places that they do eat that, but there are quite a few more that don't then there are that do."

Do you need me to make it simpler then that?

[obamanut2012]

69. Oxen are eaten in the US A LOT

[Confusious]

77. Again "generally speaking"

I don't see big hunks of oxen at the super market when I go there.

Nor do I see dog meat, horse meat or cat meat.

I had a girlfriend whose grandfather went out and killed squirrels and ate them. Doesn't mean because one person in the United states eats squirrels everyone does. Nor does it mean nobody does.

"generally speaking"

[hobbit709]

97. An ox is just a steer trained to be a draft animal. It's called beef at the store.

[Confusious]

199. Well, oops.

[Ecumenist]

106. What's the matter? Don't like Beef? All oxen are are steers who trained as draft animals...

[Confusious]

197. Well, generally speaking

I don't.

[PavePusher]

292. That's a rather ego-centric opinion-universe, yes?

You see the irony, I hope...

[Ecumenist]

110. The only markets I can think of where there aren't "BIG HUNKS OF OXEN" are in India

Last edited Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

So, unless you shop at "Crazy Mumbai Moe's, the place where your rupee go buys more". They revere the Ox, Cow, whatever you want to call it. Oh yes, my friend, we eat alot of oxen. ALOT!!

[Confusious]

200. You needed to say that twice?

Now it just seems like you're trying to be an ahole.

[obamanut2012]

116. Yes, you do -- it's called "beef"

And, not only is puppy stew part of a ceremony for some Indian tribes, people are always getting arrested for butchering dogs for food (not talking about Indians).

Many, many fancy restaurants serve oxtail, as well as many Southern aka soul food places. It's cheap and tasty if cooked correctly.

[Confusious]

201. I guess Indians eating dog

Means everyone in America does.

Is that what you're trying to say?

Because obviously, after many posts, and explanations, you can't seem to grasp the idea of "generally speaking"

[DBoon]

94. I heard eating dog was a response to post WWII near-starvation

that it was not common prior to then, but serious deprivation after the war lead to it becoming more common.

Accusing Chinese and Koreans of being "dog eaters" is something of an ethnic slur.

Didn't the Hawaiians raise "poi dogs" for food though?

[jsmirman]

99. You heard correctly

I think PETA's ad here is clever and has a very valid point, but the idea that there is some vast cultural tradition of eating dog in Asia is TOTAL BULLSHIT.

It was done as a necessity, not as a cultural statement/tradition.

And those pushing the "it's a part of the culture" angle are either stupid or in the business and trying to stir up resentment of "outsiders" for their own ends - kind of like the shithead class in West Virginia does the same to oppress the fuck out of the people.

[geardaddy]

126. I lived in China and Taiwan for a while.

Dog was rare in most places outside of southern China. In the southern provinces, dog was prevalent, as was cat, snake, what have you.

But this was 25 years ago. I don't know how much it's changed.

[MADem]

283. Cat's in the Kettle notwithstanding...?

Cat is on the menu in China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_meat#Consumption_of_cat_meat

Dog too--though it is becoming less popular these days. They tried to outlaw it and couldn't get consensus... http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/mychinastory/2012-02/02/content_14525279.htm

Horse in on the menu in Europe. I used to live right near a horsemeat store ... I never could get used to the smiling cartoon horse on the sign advertising the place!

[demwing]

31. What "WE" are you talking about?

DUers? Americans? Humans?

[Confusious]

53. I thought it was pretty clear

I guess not. Humans.

"generally speaking" humans don't eat "Helper animals"

Westerners don't, generally speaking.

[Warren Stupidity]

59. we don't eat "pets" for some value of "pet".

[uppityperson]

163. exactly. eom

[4th law of robotics]

293. And pet doesn't have a universal definition

to many a dog is a pet (in the US certainly).

Ergo we won't eat dog.
To very few is a turkey a pet.

Ergo we will eat turkey.

I doubt most kids if they had a pet pig would eat that pig. Or chicken or goat or . . .

All PETA has proven is that people don't want to eat their pets. Not that people don't want to eat meat or feel bad about killing animals in general.

Which is both true and pointless.

[obamanut2012]

67. I can find oxtails in any grocery store in my town

Including "fancy" ones. People also eat horses, and dogs. And guinea pigs, which are pets to many folks.

[Confusious]

79. "generally speaking"

Meaning: Quite a few more people don't then do.

[obamanut2012]

118. Lots of people eat beef

What do you think an ox is? It's a steer.

[Turborama]

251. Generally speaking.... YUM!

[Confusious]

258. Speaking for myself

Grose.

[Nye Bevan]

280. PLEASE let me know if anyone knows of a good US supplier of this.

It's delicious but very hard to find here.

[Turborama]

286. Here you go

I have been looking for Marmite recently and found this online shop. They've got a nice sounding Baxters one, too:

http://www.britstore.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=oxtail&osCsid=u9nbv18nimtkaknq4j3notiri1&x=16&y=10

http://www.britsuperstore.com/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?SS=oxtail&PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP=

BTW the strangest thing just happened. I typed a search into my blackberry and instead of searching it created a site out of the search terms and a site actually appeared. Check it out and let me know if a random site comes up for you, too: http://heinz.oxtail.soup.in.the.us/

[dynasaw]

127. Some cultures eat "helper animals"

Don't be so insular: there are other cultures with norms you don't know about: The French eat horse meat, some Asian cultures eat dogs and cats. Chicken is unappetizing in some cultures and dairy byproducts are regarded as disgusting by others.

[Confusious]

198. I said "generally speaking"

I am fully aware that other cultures do.

That's why I said "generally speaking" and Specified western cultures.

If you had bothered to read and hadn't rushed to get on your high horse, you would have known that.

[MrSlayer]

204. How are cats "helper" animals?

Dogs, horses, oxen and donkeys, yeah. But cats? I have five of them and the next helpful thing they do will be the first. They're cute but do no work at all.

[Confusious]

206. Well, yea

They used to get the rats that infested the food stores.

Since modern sanitation, they really don't have to do that anymore.

They're just resting on their laurels these days.

[Hissyspit]

233. They help me judge other people.

I don't trust people who make my cats nervous.

They also DO work as alarm system, if you're talking utilitarian. They get really nervous and growl when someone is approaching the house.

They also provide comfort.

[Egalitarian Thug]

223. As long as you limit 'we' to Americans. All those animal you listed are regular menu items all

over the world. Pretty narrow view from someone that calls himself Confusious.

[Confusious]

235. For the 1,323th time

I said "generally speaking"

Generally speaking: "there are places that they do eat that, but there are quite a few more that don't then there are that do."

J.H.F.C. I wish people would read, but they gotta rush to be the first on that Fing High Fing Horse.

[Egalitarian Thug]

238. And being wrong 1,323 times still doesn't make you right. n/t

[Confusious]

257. So you are a cuisine expert?

Last edited Thu Nov 22, 2012, 06:24 PM - Edit history (1)

So please, enlighten me about how more people around the world eat horse then don't, seeing as horse is a very poor converter of grain to meat.

Please tell me about all the places that eat dog, seeing as the Christian, Judaism, Muslim and Buddhist religions say that dog is a "repulsive" meat.

I really haven't looked into cat meat. Maybe you can prove me wrong there.

[PavePusher]

290. Depends on culture/location/circumstances.

Guinea Pig is delicious.... and widely eaten in South America.

But tell a U.S. pet store that you're shopping for dinner and watch the hilarity ensue....

[Renew Deal]

23. That we should eat dog?

[obamanut2012]

63. Exactly

[Major Nikon]

80. Nothing original about an appeal to emotion

Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument. The appeal to emotion fallacy uses emotions as the basis of an argument's position without factual evidence that logically supports the major ideas endorsed by the elicitor of the argument. Also, this kind of thinking may be evident in one who lets emotions and/or other subjective considerations influence one's reasoning process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Emphasis mine.

[snooper2]

92. not really, it's unpractical to eat dog..

First of all what breed would give you great hunks of breast meat? We would have to farm raise pugs or bulldogs or something and fatten them up. You get too big of a breed and there wouldn't be room in the store to sell them.

Then issue with the size of your oven to the size of your fryer. A whole new industry would have to be built around 100 quart fryers just to get all the meat in...



Not practical at all----

[Major Nikon]

132. Even people who eat dog don't eat the family pet

[snooper2]

154. I didn't say they did, I said they would have to be farm raised-

Just look at the numbers----


In 2011, more than 248 million turkeys were expected to be raised with an average liveweight per bird of 28 pounds with nearly 6 billion pounds of turkey processed. By contrast, in 1970, only 105 million birds were raised with an average liveweight of 17 pounds and 1.5 billion pounds processed. The turkeys produced in 2010 together weighed 7.11 billion pounds and were valued at $4.37 billion.


Read more: Turkey Trivia — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/tgturkeyfacts.html#ixzz2CsidUNg0
According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, more than 45 million turkeys are cooked and eaten in the U.S. at Thanksgiving—that's one sixth of all turkeys sold in the U.S. each year. American per capita consumption of turkeys has soared from 8.3 pounds in 1975 to 18.5 pounds in 1997. Ten years later, the number dropped in 2007 to 13.8 pounds.


Read more: Turkey Trivia — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/tgturkeyfacts.html#ixzz2CsiVzd3G

[Major Nikon]

187. I'm just adding to what you wrote

I agree the idea of dog ranchers doesn't seem like a good one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

210. The Aztecs did exactly that

:lol:

[Renew Deal]

216. Lamb is bigger than dog and people eat lamb all the time.

The size isn't the biggest problem.

[Doremus]

112. Well said!

[NYC Liberal]

113. No they're not. Lots of people eat dog.

I eat meat and have nothing against that. I've never tried it (I don't even know where I'd find it around here) but I have no objection.

[Union Scribe]

5. Well, at least this one avoided Holocaust comparisons. nt

[littlemissmartypants]

7. No

label needed here, even I can tell this turkey is a
genetically modified organism.

[Lefta Dissenter]

48. LOL

[Azathoth]

8. PETA reminds me of the NRA

Both have taken worthwhile issues and thoroughly marginalized them through nutbaggery.

[Eleanors38]

71. Congress knows the diff between PeTA and NRA.

[DBoon]

95. You can publicly oppose PETA and still get re-elected

nt

[jsmirman]

101. Too true

[Azathoth]

189. True, but that just means PETA isn't doing it as well n/t

[Eleanors38]

270. Because PeTA is largely discredited and politically insignificant.

The NRA may be hated by many and discredited by others. But they are politically powerful.

I rank them with the constellation of LGBT organizations.

[Azathoth]

188. Moral: political lobbying is more effective than bizarre ads featuring naked women

Counterintuitive, but apparently true

[Jim Lane]

190. PETA is taking the best approach available.

I assume that PETA's "nutbaggery" means not confining themselves to somber, dignified arguments that Serious People could respect.

If PETA did that, animal issues would get even less attention and less action than they actually do.

[customerserviceguy]

207. Attention's one thing. Where have they had results? n/t

[Jim Lane]

209. Yes, PETA gets results.

Attention by itself is valuable. Beyond that, though, I'm happy to provide you with an account of some of PETA's accomplishments. This is from the Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals and the list of authors can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals&action=history (the article history page). I license this post under the CC-by-SA license. (Crediting the source and the authors and licensing the content means this use of Wikipedia content is permitted without regard to paragraph limitations.)

Founded in March 1980 by (Ingrid) Newkirk and fellow animal rights activist Alex Pacheco, the organization first caught the public's attention in the summer of 1981 during what became known as the Silver Spring monkeys case, a widely publicized dispute about experiments conducted on 17 macaque monkeys inside the Institute of Behavioral Research in Silver Spring, Maryland. The case lasted ten years, involved the only police raid on an animal laboratory in the United States, triggered an amendment in 1985 to that country's Animal Welfare Act, and established PETA as an internationally known organization.

. . . .

McDonald's and Wendy's introduced vegetarian options after PETA targeted them; Petco stopped selling some exotic pets; and Polo Ralph Lauren said it would no longer use fur. Avon, Estee Lauder, Benetton, and Tonka Toy Co. all stopped testing products on animals, the Pentagon stopped shooting pigs and goats in wounds tests, and a slaughterhouse in Texas was closed down.

. . . .

PETA has also objected to the practice of mulesing (removing strips of wool-bearing skin from around the buttocks of a sheep). In October 2004, PETA launched a boycott against the Australian wool industry, leading some clothing retailers to ban products using Australian wool from their stores. In response, the Australian wool industry sued PETA, claiming among other things that mulesing prevents flystrike, a very painful disease that can affect sheep. A settlement was reached, and PETA agreed to stop the boycott, while the wool industry agreed to seek alternatives to mulesing.

. . . .

PETA has promoted legal initiatives to enforce existing euthanasia laws. In 1990, Georgia's "Humane Euthanasia Act" became one of the first laws in the nation to mandate intravenous injection of sodium pentobarbital as the prescribed method for euthanizing cats and dogs in Georgia animal shelters. Prior to that time, gas chambers and other means were commonly employed. Georgia Agriculture Commissioner Tommy Irvin was tasked with licensing the shelters and enforcing the new law, through the Department's Animal Protection Division. However, Commissioner Irvin failed to abide by the terms of the law, and instead continued to license gas chambers. PETA contacted the author of the original legislation, and in March 2007, the Georgia Department of Agriculture and Commissioner Irvin were sued by former State Representative Chesley V. Morton. The Fulton County Superior Court ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, validating the terms of the Humane Euthanasia Act, with an injunction prohibiting the Department from issuing licenses to shelters using gas chambers in violation of the Act.

. . . .

Notable cases (of undercover work) include the 26-minute film PETA produced in 1984, Unnecessary Fuss, based on 60 hours of researchers' footage obtained by the ALF during a raid on the University of Pennsylvania's head injury clinic. The footage showed researchers laughing at baboons as they inflicted brain damage on them with a hydraulic device intended to simulate whiplash. Laboratory animal veterinarian Larry Carbone writes that the researchers openly discussed how one baboon was awake before the head injury, despite protocols being in place for anesthesia. The ensuing publicity led to the suspension of funds from the university, the firing of its chief veterinarian, the closure of the lab, and a period of probation for the university.

. . . .

In 1990, Bobby Berosini, a Las Vegas entertainer, lost his wildlife license, as well as (on appeal) a later lawsuit against PETA, after the group broadcast an undercover film of him slapping and punching orangutans in 1989.

. . . .

In 1999, a North Carolina grand jury handed down indictments against pig-farm workers on Belcross Farm in Camden County, the first indictments for animal cruelty on a factory farm in the United States, after a three-month PETA investigation produced film of the workers beating the animals. In 2004, PETA published the results of an eight-month undercover investigation in a West Virginia Pilgrim's Pride slaughterhouse that supplies chickens to KFC. The New York Times reported the investigation as showing workers stomping on live chickens, throwing dozens against a wall, tearing the head off a chicken to write graffiti, strangling one with a latex glove, and squeezing birds until they exploded. Yum Brands, owner of KFC, called the video appalling, and threatened to stop purchasing from Pilgrim's Pride if no changes were made; Pilgrim's Pride fired 11 employees, and introduced an anti-cruelty pledge for workers to sign.

In 2004 and 2005, PETA shot footage inside Covance, an animal-testing company in the United States and Europe, that appeared to show monkeys being mistreated in the company's facility in Vienna, Virginia. According to The Washington Post, PETA said an employee of the group filmed primates there being choked, hit, and denied medical attention when badly injured. After PETA sent the video and a 253-page complaint to the United States Department of Agriculture, Covance was fined $8,720 for 16 citations, three of which involved lab monkeys; the other citations involved administrative issues and equipment. The company said none of the issues were pervasive or endemic, and that they had taken corrective action. In 2005 Covance initiated a lawsuit charging PETA with fraud, violation of employee contract, and conspiracy to harm the company's business, but did not proceed with it.[90]

PETA also goes undercover into circuses. In 2006, they filmed trainers at Carson & Barnes Circus—including Tim Frisco, the animal-care director—striking elephants while shouting at them; The Washington Post writes that the video shows Frisco shouting "Make 'em scream!". A company spokesman dismissed PETA's concerns as "Utopian philosophical ideology", but said the circus would no longer use electric prods.

I've deleted the footnotes. If you go to the Wikipedia article you can find backup references for these statements.

[arely staircase]

262. macaque monkeys

the etymological root of the macaca insult that seems to have ended George Allen's political career.

[redgreenandblue]

9. Can your high IQ explain what is false about the analogy?

[Sadiedog]

13. I agree there really is nothing wrong with the analogy! NT

[obamanut2012]

119. Yup

[Egalitarian Thug]

224. Not surprising that you have received no response. For a supposedly liberal message board,

there are an awful lot of narrow-minded and very sensitive conservatives here.

[4th law of robotics]

276. 'your dog' vs 'a turkey'

Not an equivalent comparison.

It should be a dog raised for food with no emotional attachment. And even then its merely addressing cultural values rather than universal morality.

/you wouldn't chop down a thousand year old redwood, why would you live in a house made of wood?

[tkmorris]

10. Not seeing your point

And I'm fairly certain my IQ is not an obstacle here.

[JackRiddler]

16. Self satisfaction in unfounded feeling of superiority?

[Zorra]

11. Huh. Actually, I kinda doubt that there are many vegans in Freeperville.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

12. Let 'em have their tofu turkey and crestnuts...

I'm going to devour a big hunk of turkey breast covered in gravy.

And feed my cat a special can of wet food made with another kind of ground up animal.

Ah, it's nice to be at the top of the food chain.

[glacierbay]

98. [phone]

Went out a few weeks ago and shot a 23-26 lb. turkey, wife is going to cook it tomorrow and we're going to enjoy it. Nothing like a hot turkeiy leg, mashed potatos, yams, dressing and hot rolls w/butter.

[Fla_Democrat]

247. ozzy fudd the wabbit slayer

[Eyes of the World]

17. And maybe higher than some here at DU

I would unrec this thread if I could...

[demwing]

33. Just use the trash button

better than unrec

[quaker bill]

20. Much smarter than freepers

All the words are spelled correctly.

my answer: Because I know I enjoy a properly roasted turkey. One does not want to mess around with a holiday dinner, go with what you know.

(what I will not do is feed my dog some turkey, it tends to give her the runs, which detracts from the whole holiday atmosphere)

[RandiFan1290]

21. They are smart

They get tons of panties wadded up and have their ads re posted for free all over the internet.
I lol at their ability to troll the moranic...

[Egalitarian Thug]

225. So true, and even telling them doesn't stop them. n/t

[Logical]

246. They love being dramatic and publishing stupid things. Seems dumb to me. I know of no one who....

respects them. Most people laugh about them. So I think it might be backfiring.

[RomneyLies]

22. I really don't care if somebody elae refuses to eat meat, but they piss me off when they do all

They can to keep me from eating meat.

They can take my pork chop when they pry it from my cold dead hand.

[RandiFan1290]

24. They've done nothing to stop you

[RomneyLies]

26. Their goal is to stop all meat production

They are whacked out fringe and deserve nothing but scorn

[RandiFan1290]

28. lol See #21

[Warren Stupidity]

55. Their goal is to persuade people to rethink what they eat and what their

relationships are with the other animals on this planet. I'd say this ad was quite effective, it has even managed to reach you and force you to think about your relationship to animals.

[Confusious]

85. Maybe they should protest the wild animal shows

They made me realize everything is food, in one way or another.

[jsmirman]

104. So well said

I wish DU could cut the "being stupid for being stupid's sake" stuff.

[glacierbay]

105. It sure hasn't forced me to rethink my relationship

with animals, I hunt and eat deer, rabbit, game birds and I have no qualms about it, I also have 2 dogs, 3 cats, birds and fish as pets.
This peta ad is just their way getting publicity and I could care less about it.

[RomneyLies]

125. All this ad did for me was to convince me to go out and buy the biggest, fattest, freshly killed

Turkey I can find.

mmmmm mmmmmm mm

Yummy.

For Black Friday I'll have a big juicy bloody very rare steak, then ham on Saturday.

[Warren Stupidity]

152. I did not say it changed your mind. It forced you to "re-think".

That re-thinking brought forward into your consciousness that which is generally not present. For the most part you and most people do not think at all about what they eat and the ethics of what they eat. Now you have had to think about it, and you are proudly displaying your disdain for the ethics of your food choices.

[RomneyLies]

196. It did nothing of the kind.

It made me hungry for some juicy fresh meat.

Yum yum.

[Egalitarian Thug]

226. Re-think implies an original thought.

I think it is safe to assume that that doesn't apply in this case.

[Capt. Obvious]

165. LOL!

I'm going to teach PETA a lesson by harming my body. Take that PETA!

[JoeyT]

195. So you're basically like

the Limbaugh fans that cut down trees and run all their lights at once to "protest" environmentalists?

That's good, everyone should have a hobby.

[LanternWaste]

137. I imagine the corollary is true, also

"hey are whacked out fringe and deserve nothing but scorn..."

I imagine the corollary is true, also-- the individual who mocks vegans by telling everyone how delicious he find his meat, and his evening plans for his meat deserves nothing but scorn... unless of course we're simply holding others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves.

"Their goal is to stop all meat production..."

I have no doubt you may even believe that to be the case.

[demwing]

36. No one want to touch your "come dead hand"

that's disgusting

[RomneyLies]

65. The hazards of posting from a phone

Damned Android autocorrect.

[demwing]

91. thanks for not getting sweaty, I was just ribbing ya

BTW, your sig line? +100%

[Democracyinkind]

62. Bullshit. All they're doing is expressing their beliefs.

Call me when PETA puts a gun to your head and I might take your post seriously.

[RomneyLies]

68. PETA attempts to change the laws to cram their beliefs down everybody's throats

In that respect, they are exactly like the religious right.

[william cail]

136. ASPCA Good PeTA Bad

This is why I donate to no kill shelters and to the ASPCA. The ASPCA does more good than PeTA ever will. The ASPCA does have some police powers to arrest.

[RomneyLies]

151. The ASPCA is great. I try to donate to them as much as possiible.

[bowens43]

32. I agree with them, meat is meat. Dog, cow , cat, chicken

if you're going to eat meat and I do, why the discrimination. Why the hypocritical belief that eating turkey is ok but eating dog isn't?

[demwing]

40. Dogs are cute

they have eyebrows.

How can you eat something that originated the term "puppy dog eyes" ???

Turkeys are nasty beasts. Don't ugly things deserve to be killed and eaten?

[RomneyLies]

93. If society every completely broke down

I'd eat whatever meat I could find. Species be damned.

[quinnox]

34. Meh, turkey pretty much sucks anyway

Never was a big fan of turkey. Give me ham instead any day. But dog? No thank you, and its not because I'm a dog lover either. I can't stand most dogs. I sure as hell wouldn't want to eat the disgusting things.

[RandiFan1290]

37. Always easy to say with a full stomach

Once you get hungry enough you will eat

[quinnox]

43. Still even then, I'd chomp down on some squirrels before I even considered eating a filthy dog

I'd have them down on the bottom of the list of possibilities near rats and shit like that.

[hobbit709]

50. Your attitude about dogs tells me all I need to know.

[quinnox]

52. oh well

you dog lovers seem to have a hard time understanding that there are those in the world who do not like dogs. I'm a cat person, and dogs pretty much disgust me.

[hobbit709]

54. Yes, I'm a dog person but I don't go around saying I hate cats.

None of the people I know that have cats say they hate dogs and call them filthy, etc. as you do.

[quinnox]

56. well, I have had bad experiences with dogs

including being attacked, hence why I speak with some heat about this, so let's leave it at that.

[hobbit709]

61. I've been bitten by cats and dogs.

The worst was the cat bite that got majorly infected.

[quinnox]

70. have you ever been physically attacked by a large dog?

where they are acting crazy aggressive, try that, then compare it to a cat bite.

[hobbit709]

74. More than once

I've also been bitten by a rattlesnake, charged by a bull-which is way bigger than any dog, kicked by a horse, and chomped on by various critters.
If I started freaking out over everything that jumped me one way or another I'd probably need major therapy.

[Eleanors38]

78. Squirrel is great! Fried, stewed, pot pie -- good stuff.

[hobbit709]

44. you'd be surprised at what you'll eat when you get hungry enough.

My mother told me stories of the winter of 44-45 in Vienna. The basic food ration was 2 kilos of potatoes per person per week. You were lucky if you got half that. Along with getting bombed 24/7.
There was no coal for heating since all coal went to the war effort, so civilians had to find whatever they could to burn during the coldest winter in 50 years. She told me about crawling through bombed out buildings getting scrap lumber to burn, meanwhile hoping the rest of the building didn't collapse on you.
If there was meat in the beans, it was rat. As a kid I saw her nail a rat at 10 feet with a wooden soled sandal-she obviously had practice.

[Warren Stupidity]

250. sure, but that is not our situation.

Absent scarcity and starvation we can make ethical choices about what we eat.

[PavePusher]

294. What "ethics"?

If it's O.K. to eat it in severe conditions, why is it not O.K. to eat it during mild conditions?

[oberliner]

35. What is stupid about this?

What is wrong with asking people to at least consider the point being made?

[hobbit709]

38. PETA has to be outrageous because that's the only way they get attention.

[Honeycombe8]

39. What's wrong with that message? I don't get your point.

That's what PETA is about. Animal rights.

It's good for someone to ask a question, get you thinking.

[JoePhilly]

41. I'm allergic to dogs, but not to turkey. So that bird is going down.

I'm also not allergic to stuffing, unless it has almonds in it.

[RomneyLies]

72. YUM! n/t

[glacierbay]

109. My mouth is watering for Turkey. nt.

[PavePusher]

295. Oh, you rotten bastidge....

Now I need a sandwich...

[Eyes of the World]

42. Maybe you are feeling guilty?

Somewhere deep inside you know cultivating mistreated animals to eat them is wrong. Maybe PETA is touching your conscience in some way and you don't want to be reminded about how bad you really feel inside.

I feel as bad for you as for the innocent baby animals that you eat without regard to their lives that, however brief, contain more suffering than you will know in all your years.

Eat to Live, Don't Live to Eat

[quinnox]

45. well, a PETA spokesman has arrived

"I feel as bad for you as for the innocent baby animals that you eat without regard to their lives that, however brief, contain more suffering than you will know in all your years."

[Warren Stupidity]

66. best to dismiss that with an eye roll smilie than to look behind the curtain.

[quinnox]

81. didn't realize you were a PETA fan

[Warren Stupidity]

155. I didn't realize your total lack of empathy for non human creatures.

[obamanut2012]

73. That poster is 100% right -- poultry ranching is horrific

How anyone can eat meat -- or eggs -- that come from such facilities is beyond me. Want a turkey? Raise one and kill it, or get it from somewhere where you know they are raised like living, feeling creatures, and not tortured and abused their whole lives. Because it is a FACT that that is how factory farming treats the livestock.

[quinnox]

82. another PETA fan, eh?

[aandegoons]

84. Count me in too please.

I eat meat and I agree with the poster. PETA has done much more good for animals even if I don't agree with everything they do or even agree with their most basic of premises.

I salute them for that.

[quinnox]

86. you guys are coming out of the woodwork, eh

Well, I think PETA are batshit crazy in their tactics an extreme ideology. HUMANS AND ANIMALS ARE NOT THE FUCKING SAME.

[aandegoons]

88. True they are not humans.

Like I said I do not agree with the most basic of their ideals but that is no reason not to respect them for those things they accomplish.

[quinnox]

96. you are really being mealy-mouthed

about PETA, I find that very annoying.

[obamanut2012]

121. Humans have a moral and ethical duty bto be stewards of animals

And, there are also laws stating such, although they need to be much better.

If a human has a soul, then a turkey or a pig or a steer certainly does.

It is hubris to think anything else.

[alp227]

241. "If a human has a soul, then a turkey or a pig or a steer certainly does"

I wonder when DU TOS will require posting from a secular, rationalist POV?

[Warren Stupidity]

156. so by extension you are stating that all of us are "batshit crazy" too.

you have a nice day now.

[rDigital]

234. +10000 big difference NT

[obamanut2012]

120. Thanks

I'm a vegetarian now, but ate only organic meat the last couple years I still ate meat, because of how livestock are treated. I can't quite do the vegan thing, although I wish I could, but I do know where all my dairy products are sourced. It's not perfect, but I try.

My parents are meat eaters, and get all their meat now from local sources. It's not all organic, but the animals are at least humanely raised and killed. Again, not perfect, and neither is PETA, but their undercover videos have really helped change attitudes and laws.

[jsmirman]

108. Thoughtful response

except, totally not.

Do better than this.

[obamanut2012]

115. Because every person pro humane livestock ranching is "fringe"

And a "fanatic."



How do you feel about puppy mills? They are generally MORE "humane" than factory farming of livestock, although the poor animals there suffer for a longer time.

[jsmirman]

107. This is spot on

[quinnox]

111. PETA fan #4

You stood up and were counted!

[Beaverhausen]

147. Why does it surprise you to find PETA fans here?

Are you even reading the posts? Are you OK with the way most animals that are eaten by humans are treated for their short, horrid lives? Not to mention the damage to the environment. Maybe you could try to be a little more open-minded, learn something and show some respect to the opinion of others here.

[jsmirman]

159. Thank you, Beaverhausen

I don't agree with everything PETA does - I *do* think a lot of what they do is important.

[Arkana]

103. Nope, pretty sure I just think PETA's full of idiots

[4th law of robotics]

278. Most theists assume a negative reaction to their crazy proclamations

is proof that others agree with them but aren't prepared to admit it yet.

'Believe in my God or burn!'

You're annoying, go away.

'Aha, why would you reject my message unless you knew it to be true!'

[Jasana]

46. When will

Peta get it through its thick head that not all of us omnivores can survive as vegans? Tried it once... lost too much weight. I eat white meat (chicken and turkey) and very little red meat. Grew up on a fishing boat so fish is no go. Can't get rid the smell in my head. Ugh.

Their constant calls to go Vegan only turn me off. Now... if they could tell more responsible ways to eat white meat, I might take a listen... if they didn't do it in a sexist way. That pisses me off even more.

[hrmjustin]

211. Welcome to DU!

[get the red out]

47. I would give PETA more of a break IF

Something close to 90% of pets that enter their shelters weren't euthanized, and if they didn't believe that my dog was better off DEAD than being loved and spoiled by my husband and I because they believe that pets should not exist. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/petas-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-history-of-killing-animals/254130/

I used to have respect for PETA, even though I disagreed with them on some items, but now no more.

If it were necessary for all of humanity to go Vegan to keep dogs, horses, and cats from EVER being tortured, eaten, or made to live in some miserable way, I'd go for it in a heartbeat if that's what it took, and I love my burgers. That seems to be what it would take for a lot of people to not see a false equivalency with our companion animals and a turkey, and if that's the case, so be it, pass the tofurky laws tomorrow and I'll comply.

[yewberry]

217. You've been fed a pack of lies.

PETA is not and never has been an animal adoption agency. They do not operate animal shelters for adoption.

The reason that 90% of pets that end up with PETA are euthanized is because they are not an adoption agency. What they do is help some local groups when those local agencies can't afford humane euthanizations. The high euthanization rate is simply due to to the fact that PETA does not run adoption centers; they offer humane euthanization services to local agencies who might otherwise shoot or drown unwanted animals.

[alp227]

243. PETA perverts "pro life".

Can't PETA sponsor nature sanctuaries instead of being thought police to justify euthanasia? If peta is so concerned about animals' feelings why don't they defend prey from predators?

[Iggo]

49. Here we go again...

[Democracyinkind]

57. Can you help us low-IQ people with how this analogy

is not totally apt?

BTW, I am a meat eater - the only reasons that I have to not eat dogs, so I presume, are culturally constructed and have more to do with peer pressure and societal norming than with genuine, fact-based reasons.

To be hones, you OP baffles me.

[Iggo]

138. It's my gut feeling that...

...these kinds of posts tend to be based more on a hatred of PETA than a love of puppy dogs.

[obamanut2012]

60. I don't see anything wrong with what PETA said

[cloudbase]

64. Break with traditon.

Eat sea kittens.

[OhZone]

76. I love PETA!

People Eating Tasty Animals!

OHYEAH!

[slackmaster]

83. A dog is a filthy animal, but at least it's got personality

[Eleanors38]

87. Agriculture does huge damage to animals and ecosystems...

Certainly, big ag does. But even "enviornmentally sensitive" ag does its share, eliminating whole eco-systems, and distortiing the number of species toward those animals which love fields of dense, easily had grains, fruits and veggies. That's the problem with PeTA's conscious-pricking, holier-than-thou aporoach: They falsely cleanse the souls of vegetarians.

We can only reduce the damage. I hunt deer, dove, squirrel, and yes, turkey. This reduces my reliance on meat-under-cellophane.

Tastes in meat? Most of that is culturally-determined around the emotion of sentiment (something PeTA is very reliant on).

[DBoon]

89. No - PETA is much cleverer than FR by leaps and bounds

I don't completely agree with their message but I admire the creativity in their campaigns.

I will still enjoy my turkey dinner, and my dog will get some of the scraps. She has no qualms about consuming animal flesh and prefers to do so in the company of her humans.

[DinahMoeHum]

90. Long ago, I got banned from PETA after remarking

that their new slogan should be:

"Eat P***y, Not Meat"

[glacierbay]

114. Yeah

That'll pretty much get you banned.

[Sadiedog]

139. And rightly so!

[PavePusher]

296. I disagree....

P***y is a renewable resource, low-calorie (probably burns more in the eating than you gain), and can be re-eaten again and again! In fact, if you do it right, it demands a return engagement....

The perfect food!

[Dash87]

100. Turkeys are cute. I see wild ones all the time.

But they're also very tasty.

[Arkana]

102. Yes, because eating the family pet is TOTALLY the same as eating a goddamn frozen turkey.

Bravo, PETA. You've hit the retarded nail on its head again.

[obamanut2012]

122. It really is no different

If you eat meat, you eat meat. If a human has a soul, and a dog does, then a turkey certainly does.

The French are a Western culture and society, and they are huge horse meat eaters. I think that's appalling. They think that attitude is ridiculous. Horses are helper animals, companion animals, pets.

Meat is meat.

[jeff47]

168. You do realize the exact same logic applies to plants, right?

Plants are alive and feel pain. They react very strongly when injured.

We're not autotrophs. Something has to die for us to live. How is killing spinach to eat it more noble than killing a turkey to eat it?

[CrispyQ]

176. I eat as far from my DNA as possible. -nt

[4th law of robotics]

279. Who is talking about souls?

[Egalitarian Thug]

227. Yes, because eating the family is the same as eating a turkey. Meat is meat, after that

it is all cultural and personal preference. Once you get that through the filter, I think it comes down to intent and responsibility.

[Bluenorthwest]

117. If you wouldn't eat a turkey, why are you fine with the mass destruction of

small animal communities to make way for a carrot farm? Why is it 'alright' for millions of rodents to not only die, but see their entire environment eradicated for all time just to grow some food? Is it becasue the gophers are not really animals, so it is cool to kill them en mass and toss the corpses aside?
I'm always amused by those who think veg diets are 'cruelty free'. They have never seen a natural pasture become an agri field, and they certainly have never been farmworkers.

[Rex]

123. But I've had dog...not my personal one of course

so what does PETA have to say about that?

PETA = Pretenders Eating Turkey Afterwork.

[HERVEPA]

130. Wow. Such great wit.

You must be a riot at parties.

[RC]

124. Crazy Talk.

[darkangel218]

128. Humans are Omnivore!

Which means we eat both veggies AND meat! What they want us to do is NOT natural to the human body. If someone wants to go vegan, that'd their personal choice, but don't try to guilt others into being like you!

Screw that!

[HERVEPA]

129. It is not unnatural in the slightest

Killing other beings is unnatural.

[darkangel218]

150. Oh please. Like we evolved from apes eating tofu.

Animals kill each other for food all the time. We kill them, and in some instances they kill us for a tasty launch. I'm sorry the reality of things bothers you so much.

[Rex]

265. Please to not introduce the facts

that might now work out so well.

[Warren Stupidity]

271. We didn't evolve from apes, we share common ancestors, but

Apes are mostly vegetarians. They of course do not eat tofu in the wild, as they do not have the social skills for manufacturing food products.

[jeff47]

170. Plants are other beings.

They're alive. They react very strongly to the injuries you cause when you rip their flesh apart in order to consume them. As an added bonus, uncooked plants are still alive when you shred them with your teeth. At least meat is no longer suffering when you consume it.

We aren't autotrophs. Something has to die so that we can live.

[Rex]

264. Now that is funny.

You must be from outer space.

[Warren Stupidity]

157. There are lots of behaviors that we have that are "natural"

that we need to evolve beyond. The point is that as conscious beings in a post scarcity economy we can make ethical choices that would, if widely adopted, reduce the pain and suffering and improve the life experience of many other more or less conscious beings on this planet, with only minimal inconvenience to ourselves. Why wouldn't an ethical mindful human do that?

[jeff47]

171. Why does this goal not apply to plants?

They're alive. They react very strongly to pain.

Why is it OK to shred a living being with your teeth, but not OK to eat the flesh of a now-dead animal?

[Warren Stupidity]

274. As I stated up thread, for me it is level of consciousness.

Plants experience life, but I do not think that they do so consciously. There are vegetarians, such as jainists, who agree that even the suffering of plants should be considered and minimized. I have to eat. But the harm I cause by eating other life should be minimized. I cause more harm by eating cow than by eating beans.

[jeff47]

277. Studies have shown a surprising level of awareness in plants

They were doing some studies of abuse of plants. They had one person be mean to the plants - yell at it, rip parts off, general abuse. Another person was nice to the plants - spoke reassuringly, provided water and fertilizer and so on.

What they found is after a little while, the plant would start reacting when the person approached the plant - the "evil" person triggered defensive reactions even when they didn't do anything. Somehow (and we have no idea how) the plant knew the "evil" person was there.

[Warren Stupidity]

305. experience and reaction are not consciousness.

Ive built robots that experience their environment and react to it without a shred (pun intended) of consciousness. Plants do have sensory capacity to sense and react to light, to chemicals etc.

Consciousness is more than experience and reaction to sensory input. You know that, as a conscious being.

[jeff47]

308. My point is you've failed to show a lack of consciousness.

And that there's a lot more going on in plants than we thought.

[4th law of robotics]

306. A properly managed cow pasture can be home to a variety of plant and animal life

a properly managed bean field is home to . . . beans.

Actually in the process of grinding up a field for use you kill untold numbers of mice/rats (intelligent) as well as lesser animals. And of course by removing those animals you starve the animals that would feed on them (predatory cats, wolves, coyotes, foxes, birds of prey, etc) as well as wild animals that could have lived in that area (deer, rabbits, and the like).

All those animals are removed/killed by your bean fields. You choose not to see it though.

[Drale]

131. Well for one

Turkey's are mean and very very tasty. Second I'd rather eat a member of PETA than eat me dog. Put them in a smoker for about 24 hours use the right rub and sauce I bet they wouldn't be half bad.

[Sadiedog]

141. Sick! nt

[PavePusher]

297. "Long pork"....

Just cook it well and don't eat the brain...

Side note: 'Stranger in a Strange Land', anyone?

[byronius]

133. Actually, your post title sounds like a Teabilly rant to me.

Free Republic is where all the ethically-challenged go, people who can't muster up empathy for other people --

Check yourself before you wreck yourself. What a dickish post.

[whatchamacallit]

240. [phone]

[LongHairedCountryBoy]

135. This ad is just silly

Of course I'm not going to eat MY dog,but in the right circumstances YOUR dog might start looking pretty tasty....

[Iggo]

140. ...and your dog thinks the same thing about you.

[LongHairedCountryBoy]

145. No doubt

and some days more than others too...

[Autumn]

142. Welcome to DU LongHairedCountryBoy

[LongHairedCountryBoy]

146. Thank you

Long time lurker,but even after joining I'll never be a prolific poster.More of a listener than a talker

[Autumn]

182. Well when you talk you seem to make a statement

That was a good post

[hrmjustin]

212. Welcome to DU!

[Bradical79]

143. Two reasons

1. People in general (at least here in the U.S.) perceive dogs as much smarter and more emotional than turkeys. When they think of a dog, they see an animal with more human like feelings. Of course that's not true of everyone, as we have dog fighting and things like that. In general though, dogs are easier to anthropomorphize.

Meanwhile, people think of turkeys as some of the dumbest creatures in the world and little more than a walking food source. Ever heard the myth of turkeys drowning in rainstorms? Though to be fair, if we released the turkeys we have bred for food, they probably would just end up as lunch for another critter.

2. Turkeys are delicious and better sources of meat. If dogs tasted like turkeys and provided as much meat, we probably would have some sort of dog raised exclusively as a food source.

Anyway, I see what PETA is trying here, but it really is a terrible ad, in my opinion, that will probably do nothing to help their cause. If anything, comparing dogs to turkeys around thanksgiving with a shallow ad will just re-enforce whatever negative impression people have of them.

[PavePusher]

298. 1. Wild turkeys are highly intelligent.

2. Many domesticated dogs are highly stupid, have a lot of meat on them and would tase delicious with garlic and sage.

It's more about ingrained cultural taboos.

[Tom Ripley]

144. Because it is inefficient to raise carnivores for food?

[booley]

148. The point is valid

Societies do make rather arbitrary decisions about which animals are ok to eat and which are not.

Nor did we make these decisions necessarily because of facts. We didn't give dogs and turkeys IQ tests before we decided which we would eat. It's cultural. We then used facts afterwards to justify it.

PETA is using this fact to support it's claim that eating meat in general is a moral wrong.

You may not agree with their point and no one said there couldn't be counter arguments BUT the reasoning they are using is sound.

Seriously sometimes it seems people read the word PETA" and their brains jump out a window. You can see their point and still disagree with them.

[obamanut2012]

160. Exactly

I am vegetarian, yet disagree with PETA on quite a few things, but their campaigns and undercover folks HAVE changed attitudes, and HAVE helped laws get changed that better animals' lives.

[jeff47]

174. Actually, the problem is the same argument applies to plants

Why must animals be protected, but plants can be happily destroyed?

Plants feel pain. They react very strongly to it. And if you're eating a plant that hasn't been cooked, it's alive when you shred it with your teeth.

The food of vegetarians suffers just like the food of omnivores suffers.

[booley]

285. yes and no

My point was that much of what we consider acceptable to eat is cultural. We only figured out that plants have a stress response a little while ago and it's still up in the air if this even counts as pain much less if farming causes some kind of severe pain to plants. I mean from an evolutionary pov, why would plants even develop a sense of pain? Very few plants can move away from something regardless of how painful it is.

So can plants feel pain as we know it? We don't know and the concept is still too esoteric to really impact our cultural decisions.

We may indeed decide one day that eating plants is cruel and we may even find an alternative.

But today we don't and more importantly to my point, we don't separate plant species into acceptable or unacceptable for consumption based on some emotional judgment about a plant's worthiness or alleged emotional life.

Pigs are smarter then dogs and cats. Octopi are right up there. But for various cultural reasons we decided that eating dogs and cats was morally wrong and not just a matter of taste. And we didn't decide that for pigs or octopi.

We may not eat roses generally. But we also wouldn't have the freak out if someone ate roses the way we would if someone ate a puppy in our culture.

[FarCenter]

149. Harry Harper: family 'devastated' at baby boy's pet dog attack death

Harry Harper, who was just eight days old, was attacked by the Jack Russell terrier yesterday morning at his grandparents' semi-detached home in Ketley, Telford.

Despite frantic efforts by paramedics, he later died from his injuries in The Princess Royal Hospital in Telford.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9693200/Harry-Harper-family-devastated-at-baby-boys-pet-dog-attack-death.html

[Sunlei]

153. Peta always has the ad campaigns people notice

[link:|

[PavePusher]

299. Way too skinny....

She needs to cook and eat that thing.

[DearAbby]

158. Hey Peta, come up with something fun, like making fungus into the shape of a turkey...n/t

[uppityperson]

164. Because I am smart enough to see the difference between "my" and "a".

"MY" dog does not equal "A" turkey. "my" dog and "my" turkey are more comparable.

[dawg]

172. Darn it! Now I'm craving Jack Russell.

Tasty, tasty Jack Russell ....

?w=314&h=360

[superpatriotman]

173. How Dare PETA try to nudge our species towards compassion?!11!

nt

[jeff47]

175. What's compassionate about shredding a living creature with your teeth?

Plants feel pain. Being a vegetarian is not more compassionate.

[RedCappedBandit]

181. Plants don't have a nervous system

Many have also evolved specifically to be eaten to spread their seed.

[jeff47]

183. You don't need a central nervous system to feel pain.

And while they don't have a central nervous system, they do have nerve-like systems and have large, plant-wide reactions to things like picking a leaf.

And while plants expect fruit to be eaten, most vegetables are the plant itself - that spinach plant wasn't terribly interested in you eating it's leaves.

[RedCappedBandit]

184. Reaction =/= pain

[jeff47]

186. Then what is pain?

You cut your finger. Nerve impulses alert your brain to the injury so that you'll move your finger away from the cause of the injury. A host of chemicals start reacting at the site of the injury to project the wound. A bunch of hormones trigger additional chemical changes. Your immune system gets put "on alert" in the area.

In a plant, all the same stuff happens, except the brain moving the limb away.

The fact that you can't relate to a plant's existence doesn't mean the plant doesn't feel pain.

[bunnies]

193. By your logic...

every plant on earth would be in a constant state of pain. Do you seriously believe that?

[4th law of robotics]

281. And these plants, they're grown in areas

that were once forests and grasslands right?

What happened to the pain feeling animals that lived there?

[MrScorpio]

177. Fuck PETA, they're not helping at all.

But this country still needs to do a way better job of commercial food production than what we're doing right now.

It's a much bigger issue. The chemicalized and highly processed forms of production are killing us. I wouldn't be surprised if the epidemic levels of cancer, obesity and diabetes that we have in America are linked to our food production methods.

PETA isn't doing anyone any favors by pleading with everyone to "go vegan", especially if that subjects people to more of the poisons that are produced by the Monsanto Corporation.

[madrchsod]

178. peta strikes again!

oh well........

[Rstrstx]

179. No but if I were a turkey my dog wouldn't hesitate to eat me

:-P

[RedCappedBandit]

180. Perfectly reasonable logic, IMO

You don't have to agree, but this doesn't make them stupid. (I am not a vegan, but see where they're coming from).

[DefenseLawyer]

185. Yeah well, you know... that's just like, their opinion, man. n/t

[bunnies]

191. Well?

Do you have an answer?

[Cleita]

194. Does the dog get to eat turkey?

I know ours do.

[BVictor1]

202. Idiots...

Call it population control.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

205. Oh look it's a turdoggen.

[Renew Deal]

215. lol

[Berserker]

208. As soon as the rest of the animal world

goes vegan I will.

[LeftInTX]

213. Wish they would have drawn attention to factory poultry farms instead

Would get a few people thinking about the quality of the poultry they're consuming.

[yewberry]

218. So, let me ask you, Archae,,,

What do you think about the Vegetarian/Vegan/Animal Rights forum here on DU?

Should we be jettisoned, since we're as stupid as 'all of Free Republic?'

If we're all so incredibly so fucking stupid and unwelcome, why not go ahead and ask Elad to tombstone all of us? Please, go for it.

After all, disagreeing with you should be worth a tombstone, right?

[Warren DeMontague]

237. I support the right of people to believe in, for instance, ridiculous religious goofiness.

However, when they come to my door and tell me *I* need to believe in it, that's when they piss me off.

It's the proselytizing, that's the problem.

[yewberry]

267. As do I.

In this case, however, as is so often the case on DU, this is not a situation of proselytizing. The OP found an image he disagreed with and brought it to DU for ridicule. Who is proselytizing here?

And gosh, wonder of wonders, the DU chorus of 'mmm, bacon,' 'screw those peta assholes,' and 'veg*ns are sanctimonious extremists' shows up.

I'm a grownup, and I've never had anyone come to my door and try to tell me what to eat (other than door-to-door meat sellers, that is. Boy do we rise their eyebrows.) The world that you and I live in is a meat-eating world though, so please be aware that all of y'all are the default. Us? We're the hippies, the effeminate, the extremists, the low-IQ same-as-freepers even if we've NEVER EVER expressed our opinions in public. Apparently, this should never piss me off.

I agree with the image in the OP. I see no difference between eating a turkey and eating a dog. So sorry. But like most veg*ns, I know enough to shut the fuck up about my opinions, so I don't mention them. You meat-eaters are the majority, like Christians in this country, so you all can feel free to marginalize us. Yes, proselytizing, particularly among new veg*ns, is a problem, but it ain't nothing compared to the response.

Meat-eaters are like right-wing Christians fighting against the imaginary war on Christmas. You are the poor, persecuted majority.

[Warren DeMontague]

268. How do you know I eat meat?

I do, actually. Fish and Poultry, no red meat or pork. Although I had a good chunk of my adult life when I didn't eat any. And my philosophical positionings on the whole thing; including my opinions about PETA as an organization, were the same then as they are now.

So I would say "you meat eaters" is a bit premature, in this case.

I would add, though, that I object to anyone giving anyone else shit over what they choose to eat, that applies to meat eaters giving vegans crap same as the other direction.


And for some odd reason, there's been a welcome dearth of PETA threads (Thanksgiving, as always, is to be expected as an exception) on DU3. Even connoisseurs of massive flamefests such as myself found those things tiresome after a while.

[yewberry]

288. I rolled the dice and won.

And I don't think it's at all premature to refer to you as a meat eater, as you do indeed eat meat.

Agree that the lack of peta threads has been entirely welcome!

[mimosa_bunny]

219. Nice

Why do meat eaters get SO upset with vegans & vegetarians?

Leave me the fuck alone. I don't preach to you, kindly return the favor.

"You people" are rude and condescending. I choose not to eat meat and could give zero shits if you would rather take lipitor than modify your diet.

If you choose not to believe the facts regarding the inefficiency of feeding grain to animals and worldwide food insecurity then YOU must be a Freeper. Your health/your planet/your choice. I guess?

I have way too much class to post pictures of what happened to your turkey before it got in your belly.

[treestar]

220. Just not the same

Dogs can be domesticated and dogs have proven themselves to be man's best friend. Name someone who kept a turkey as a pet.

It's also a cultural thing, as some cultures do eat dog.

[Egalitarian Thug]

228. The owner of my stable where I board my horse. One-eye has survived another Thanksgiving, BTW. n/t

[Hissyspit]

231. I had a chicken as a pet.

She was wonderful and loving. Rode on my shoulder with me all the time.

I'm not sure what you mean by "can be domesticated?"

[treestar]

309. you can't get a chicken to come when you call it?

So you don't eat chicken?

[Hissyspit]

310. No, that's not the definition of domesticated.

[PavePusher]

300. Actually, my brother's family has a pet turkey.

He was originally obtained to be a meal... but got adopted by my then 4-year-old neice. Five years later, Herkimer still rules their urban farm, keeping the geese, ducks and chickens firmly under control.

Other poultry has not been as fortunate...

[liberal_at_heart]

222. Sometimes PETA brings important issues to the forefront

like abuse of animals that we eat. Which animal is culturally acceptable to eat is irrelevent.

[Deep13]

229. Good point, PETA, we should not be so quick to dismiss dogs as food animals.

Really, what about canine makes it intrinsically inedible? Most of us eat hogs, and they taste like people. How much worse can dog be?

[Hissyspit]

232. It's not the edible-ness.

It's the killing.

Your purpose with this post is to disprove the OP?

[Deep13]

248. The logic can be read either way. ...

Also, which animals are food animals, which are work animals, and which are pets are a social construction based on cultural norms.

[joeybee12]

230. They lost me when they advocated killing stray and feral cats instead of TNR...

brain-dead self-promoters.

[Warren DeMontague]

236. How's the dog taste?

[Libertas1776]

239. mmmmm

this thread is giving me a hankering for a turkey hot dog!

Also, am I the only one that thinks the freakish turkey/canine hybrid up there looks kinda cute?

[whatchamacallit]

242. So then the desire to eat people would make one a genius?

Your dim post suggests a positive correlation between vegetarianism and IQ.

[LiberalElite]

244. Actually, as the controversy over Obama eating dog as a child shows

what animals we eat and don't eat is culturally determined. Some cultures think termites and grubs are good eatin'!
I haven't eaten any animals for 25 years and below is a link containing reasons to re-think the turkey dinner. I don't agree with everything Peta says but going vegan isn't the stupidest thing I've ever heard by far and that doesn't make me a freeper. It's disheartening to me that otherwise "progressive" people nevertheless can harbor outdated notions in other respects.
And one more thing - you know how your dog has the capacity to feel pain and distress? Well, the turkey has the same capacity. Hard luck for the animal destined for the dinner table. Convenient, huh?

http://www.care2.com/causes/mr-president-pardon-the-turkey-not-industrial-agriculture.html

[Logical]

245. They are as radical as the NRA. Nuts boths of them. People fucking eat meat. We were evolved to....

eat meat. WTF!

[whatchamacallit]

254. I've noticed that people who give themselves vainglorious monikers like

Smart, Rational, or Logical, rarely are.

[Logical]

260. LOL, wow, no defending PETA just insulting my name? How clever. PETA Sucks!

[Skip Intro]

255. PETA Rocks!

They continue to draw attention to animal welfare, and they get kudos from me for that.

Oh yeah, and they've got a long, long list of success stories where they've been responsible for, often entirely responsible for, ending practices that needlessly harm and/or kill animals. They get kudos from me for that too.

Why such things would bother people to such a degree as evidenced in this thread is beyond me, but no matter, PETA Rocks!

[standingtall]

256. My Dog fully endorses eating Turkey

[MADem]

284. Paul Newman's dog food outfit makes some nice organic turkey, chicken and beef dog food. nt

[RB TexLa]

259. I don't think so. I don't agree with them but if you have a moral opposition to eating animals

it's a valid presentation of that argument.

[Jamaal510]

263. Meh...no.

Sorry, Team Plasma--I mean PETA. I can't see myself living off of only salads for the rest of my life.

[ailsagirl]

266. I support PETA because they support animals. Bless their hearts!

And, no, I did not have turkey today.

[4th law of robotics]

272. If you wouldn't easy your prized rosebushes why eat a salad?

[flvegan]

287. I love PETA threads on DU.

Especially when the OP states that this line of thought, which I share, makes one as stupid as a Freeper.

Thanks!

Accusations of ignorance, oh the sweet irony! LOL

[Bad_Ronald]

302. The only threads on DU I find more entertaining than PETA threads are the ones on Chavez

No matter where you stand on Chavez, they're always good for a laugh once all the usual people weigh in.

[frogmarch]

303. My husband’s family - meat eaters, every one of them -

are extremely defensive about their collective RIGHT to eat meat. Some become aggressive, even physically abusive, when they find themselves in the company of vegetarians and/or vegans, even though it’s seldom that any of us VVs say a word either way when we're with these people about everyone’s right to choose to, or to not, eat animal flesh. To my carnivorous in-laws, people who don’t eat meat are The Enemy and must be Dealt With. I also see some of that attitude displayed here in this thread.