How exactly is Israel supposed to stop Iran from sponsoring terror attacks against them without violence?

[ripcord]

Surely with all the outrage at Israel striking against the country sponsoring terror attacks against them someone must have a solution other than "suck it up".

[ck4829]

1. Follow Ukraine's example - they seem to be weathering well against Russia's state sponsored terrorism

[TexasDem69]

2. You don't think that Ukraine struck back against Russia?

You haven’t been paying attention.

[NickB79]

11. So, retaliatory drone strikes against the Iranian Navy and oil refineries deep inside Iran?

[Ace Rothstein]

14. Yeah, losing about 20% of your territory and hundred of thousands dead or wounded.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. Ukraine is weathering well? What would "weathering poorly" look like?

[edisdead]

33. Seriously?

Weathering well would be not having your country invaded, attacked and murdered….. But then we know how people feel about THOSE things as it pertains to Israel.

[MOMFUDSKI]

3. Israel was given land to call home. Then they

had to steal more. ‘Nuff said.

[ripcord]

5. The only land they took was Gaza and the Gohlan

They took Gaza from the Egyptions and the Gohlan from Syria after both countries repeatedly used those areas to launch full on wars of aggression against Israel.

But back on subject what can Israel do about decades of state sponsored terrorism from Iran?

[Bucky]

22. (pssst, hey buddy... Google "west bank settlements"...)

[obamanut2012]

37. And the illegal West Bank settlements?

[Happy Hoosier]

7. That's not exactly how it happened...

So you either posted about something you don’t know about, or you don’t care that it’s not true.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

8. No, that's not 'Nuff said,

that is just plain false as noted in a reply to you, so either you're totally ignorant of the actual facts or you just plain don't care about the truth, which ever it is, you should grab a history book and learn the facts, or don't and keep repeating this false info.

[madaboutharry]

26. Wish I could give 100 recs.

[Zeitghost]

12. Complete BS

Israel took control of Gaza, the West Bank and The Golan Heights in wars in which it was attacked by it's neighbors.

They attempted to later give most of that land back and Jordan/Egypt refused it and renounced the citizenship of their citizens who lived there.

[JI7]

13. No, that's not what happened.

[Patton French]

24. Repeating false anti-Israel rhetoric is not helpful.

But it explains a lot.

[David__77]

27. Millions have lived as mere subjects to Israel with no voting rights, for decades. Shameful and immoral.

[Happy Hoosier]

38. Did you know....

That the Muslim Palestinians wanted an Islamic state where Jews and Christians were powerless subjects?

The "evil" British rejected that plan.

[brooklynite]

47. Did Jordan give voting rights to West Bank residents when they seized it in 1948?

[wnylib]

60. Shameful and immoral that those "mere subjects"

chose war in 1947 instead of accepting the UN proposal of two independent states. Shameful and immoral that they have put all their energy into hatred and attacks on Israel since 1948 instead of using that energy to build a government for themselves.

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate Israel." - Golda Meir

[ChazII]

72. I always liked that quote by Golda Meir. n/t

[claudette]

71. Agree

If Israel gave an inch they might be surprised what good it does

[Eko]

4. Attack the terrorist proxies

That are attacking Israel.

[ripcord]

6. How is that going to help anything?

Even if Israsel wipes out the current crop of terrorists Iran will just switch support to other groups. Iran doesn't deserve a pass on their announced goal of driving the Jrws out of the Middle East, they are just as much a part of this war as Hamas. If you want to kill a snake you cut off its head and in terrorism in the Middle East that is Iran.

[Eko]

9. Well, lets look at the alternative.

Israel attacks Iran, exactly how? Israel could have air-superiority vs Iran's fighter jets, that is a given. Iran has a large anti-air missile system though so while Israel could take out Iran's fighter jets they would lose a lot of theirs and only achieve air-superiority after a massive loss of their jets and bombers if they do. Israel has less troops, tanks and IFV's than Iran though Iran's are older and not as good. That being said Israel would have to travel through other countries or use ships and that would take time leaving them open to being discovered and being shelled by artillery. There are also the proxies Iran has right on the border of Israel that have over 300,000 missiles and rockets. Iran sent 300 and some of them got through, I don't know how well they would do with ten's of thousands at one time. Neither of them have a navy to speak of. So, you tell me how this would work.

[ripcord]

10. So you are saying Israel shouldn't defend its self because it would be hard

Instead Israel should passively accept the terror attacks, in silence. While the UN and the rest of the world looks on, in silence.

[Eko]

15. What did I say Israel should do? Word for word.

See post 4.

[ripcord]

18. I'm not going to respond after being reported

[Eko]

19. I did not report you.

I don't do that. I believe in an exchange of ideas. I have no one on my block list, look for yourself.
Eko.

[ripcord]

20. I believe you

[Eko]

21. I wouldnt respond if I alterted on you.

Thanks for at least responding back. I appreciate that and I'm sorry you got alerted on. I don't think you deserved that. Nothing you did seemed to warrant an alert. I'm just tired of people putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. That I believe was wrong, but did not need an alert. Just me saying so.
Eko.

[Eko]

17. I am disappointed that you wont answer my question in post 15.

But I will get over it. People tend to get pretty heated on the Israel, Hammas, Gaza, Iran thing. It is a terrible thing so it is to be expected. I try my best to look at it from a analytical view as well as a humanistic view. I've had pro-Israel people tell me I support Hamas and I've had pro-Palestinian people tell me I support Zionism. All these people keep putting words in my mouth, and I'm fucking tired of it. I support the Palestinian people not being dead, I support the Israeli people not being dead. I support Hamas being dead. These seem to be simple things but are somehow so complex for people that they just cant wrap their head around it. So I am against what they are for no matter my words according to them. My motives are questioned despite my clear words. Here, on DU where I have been for 13 years. No name change, the same one for the entire time. All my posts good and bad easily searchable. My motives are,,,,, suspect. I have to admit though now that I have been found out. 13 years ago I came to America from Iran through quite a few countries. Hard to trace. Our intelligence services gave me papers to get through all the customs and get here. My mission was to join DU and infiltrate it till this very moment, spewing pro Iranian propaganda to upset the power balance here and thus achieve world domination!!!!!!!!.
If this is what we are reduced to, not being able to have intelligent discussions where information easily searchable and given in response to a question and the response is just more straw man and doesn't even address the information given,, then I will just have to keep doing that.
Eko.
PS, the Iranian thing was sarcasm, I can trace my lineage all the way to the dude that said, "Give me liberty or give me death" and I take that pretty seriously.

[Bucky]

23. "So you're saying Israel shouldn't defend itself"

Oh brother...

[FBaggins]

34. You seem to doubt Israel's ability to strike significantly at Iran

Iran just might be able to take down a small number of Israeli aircraft - but even that is not a given. The disparity in systems and capabilities is comparable to that which resulted in hundreds of Iranian missiles/drones resulting in virtually no damage at all. Iran has a handful of modern anti-air units, but nothing that could result in "massive loss of their jets and bombers"

[EX500rider]

57. Yeah I doubt their S-200 & S-300 clones would even get a lock on a F-35

However to carry the big stuff (penetrator bombs) they would have to carry those outside the plane so the IDF would have to do some Wild Weasel SEAD ahead of the strikes, also doable.

[FBaggins]

58. Israeli F-35s are no strangers to the S-300

Syria has them too... yet hasn't seen much luck

It's certainly possible for an S-300 to take out an F-35... but only a bunch of things go wrong. As you point out - there would be missions to degrade air defenses. "Massive losses" on Israel's part are unlikely.

[Eko]

75. You seem pretty gung ho on attacking Iran.

Do you think we should do it?

[Happy Hoosier]

39. So, basically, just a never-ending low-intensity war.

Where Iran funds generation after generation of young Palestinians to die at their behest. Great plan.

[Eko]

74. Please, tell me yours.

[EX500rider]

63. So a game of Wack-A-Mole?

I'd cut out the middle man and go for the instigators, otherwise it goes on forever

[Eko]

73. The middle man is not so middle.

Hezbollah has over 150,000 missiles and rockets and is right on the border with Israel. Iran sent 300 and 1.6% got through. Lets see 150,000 x 1.6%=2,400. That is a huge threat and getting rid of some of them seems like a really, really good idea. Especially since Israel can target them and Iran can say they weren't theirs. Israel can target a couple of the bigger sites and leave the rest alone. The chances of escalation are smaller than attacking Iran, it helps to get rid of the closer and immediate threat and leaves Iran a way out so that they don't do anything else. Now one can say that Hezbollah my react and fire at Israel. If Israel attacks Iran Hezbollah will do so anyways. That would open a multi-front war for Israel, Gaza, Hezbollah, Iran and the rest of Iran's proxies. What you are calling for will put the ME in a regional war. It will also pull the US and other countries into it.

[0rganism]

16. How exactly is Israel supposed to stop Iran from sponsoring terror attacks against them *with* violence?

I very much doubt the problems of violent ideologies will be resolved through violence.

Perhaps there is a middle path that minimizes violence and restricts its use to specific individuals who stand in the way of peace while respecting the lives of innocents.

Whatever the answers, I remain hopeful for leadership from capable diplomats.

[FBaggins]

36. Lots of ways

I'm not advocating for them... but they could seriously degrade Iran's ability to export crude oil and natural gas... which make up close to half of the government's revenue (far more than offsetting the amount they spend on their proxies).

[0rganism]

56. Well yes, actually this would likely temporarily reduce indirect state-sponsored terrorism by Iran's proxies....

...replacing it with direct state violence from Iran itself. Perhaps that's a desirable alternative, which it might be in the sense of Iran being a more-reliable negotiating partner than, say, Hezbollah. It comes at a price, naturally -- escalation towards all-out war, imperiling shipping through the Persian Gulf, a big spike in oil prices globally, and the sticky wicket of eventually arriving at a sustainable peace agreement to reduce large-scale destruction and re-enable shipping. At which point we're basically back to where we are now, with a fresh glob of causus belli spread around the region and Iran resorting to loosely-affiliated proxies for sufficient levels of violence to keep up its appearance as a strong anti-Israel Islamic state.

Point taken though, the state-sponsored terrorism is at least deferred for a year or two.

[TheKentuckian]

48. Destroy their oil production, refining capacity,

as well as their ports and they at least will have to make some hard resource choices.

[Earth-shine]

59. I am so glad you are not in charge of anything.

Posts like this would get us all killed. Strike first you say?

[EX500rider]

64. Get us all killed how?

Iran has zero reach to the US

[Earth-shine]

69. Your comment is made as if our only assets are in the US. As if we don't have allies that would be threatened.

As if they couldn't strike in the US with terrorism.

Please enjoy that safe feeling that you have being away from all the fighting.

[TheKentuckian]

79. If they choose poorly then then force tougher choices.

[maxrandb]

25. I don't know, but I am sure of one thing

What's been tried for the past 1,000 years hasn't worked.

[Voltaire2]

28. Withdraw from the occupied territories.

[sarisataka]

29. To Iran and their terrorists

"Occupied territories" means Israel

[Voltaire2]

31. I don't care about that.

Meanwhile the 50 year occupation is clearly a catastrophic failure.

[sarisataka]

32. I can appreciate your honesty

You are bothered with what is done by Israel but not what is done to Israel. It really isn't about stopping Iran or the terrorists.

Most people are not so forthcoming

[Voltaire2]

44. I don't care to argue the propaganda positions of either side in the conflict.

[FBaggins]

40. What you care or don't care about really isn't relevant

The question was how Israel stops Iran from attacking them (directly of through proxies). You (fairly ridiculously... but you do you) say they should give Iran what they want (since appeasement worked so well in the past?).

It was pointed out that what Iran wants is the destruction of the state of Israel.

Meanwhile the 50 year occupation is clearly a catastrophic failure.

Presumably judged only by what you care about.

Israel continues to exist as the only free and democratic nation in that part of the world despite being surrounded by far larger populations that want to destroy them. But hey... somebody on the internet has a poor opinion of them! Catastrophic failure!

[Happy Hoosier]

41. I don;t disagree that it's a failure....

... but if you think that withdrawing from the West Bank and Gaza would end this, you are kidding yourself. Hamas and MANY Palestinians will not be satisfied until every Jew in the region is dead.

[Voltaire2]

43. Perhaps that is correct.

However we won't know until we try. What we do know is that the 50 year occupation is a disaster and is feeding the extremists groups like Hamas. Continuing a disastrous policy because the obvious alternative 'might not work' seems stupid to me.

[Happy Hoosier]

45. Don't get me wrong....

I favor a two-state solution, which neccessitates a withdrawla from the OT's. including removing settlements in the West Bank. But we'll see if that ever happens. The right wing in Israel is still pretty strong.

[TheKentuckian]

46. It absolutely handwaives the conditions that lead to occupations

in the first place.

Israel has been far kinder and gentler than what was on offer to them.

Those handwringing about the 67 borders should not have waged genocidal wars to erase them and have done so repeatedly.

[claudette]

55. Amen!!

👍😊

[Redleg]

35. I appreciate your concern. I just don't see how widening the war will make Israel more safe.

They are in a difficult situation and I think that all diplomatic options should be explored first.

[FBaggins]

42. It was a proxy war until Iran attacked Israel directly

Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2024, 11:07 AM - Edit history (1)

IOW - The war is already "widened". Striking back doesn't change that.

More importantly. The reason that Iran previously only attacked Israel through proxies - was because a direct conflict with a powerful nuclear power would be too dangerous to them personally. If Israel doesn't strike back - that calculus changes. Why wouldn't Iran do it again?

The key is for Israel to strike back in a way that maintains the "don't be stupid enough to attack Israel directly!" calculus without justifying yet another attack.

Not an easy line to walk.

[Voltaire2]

49. Roll back one step.

Iran responded to a direct attack by Israel on Iranian territory, its consulate building in Syria.

[FBaggins]

52. Two mistakes there

One - consulates are not the territory of the foreign power.

Two - the war was well underway at that point. Launched by Iran’s proxy.

Oh… and 2.5 is that the war wasn’t just from Gaza. Iranian proxy Hezbollah had attacks from the north as well.

[Redleg]

50. "Not exactly an easy line to walk" is my point

There aren't many good options here, just least bad ones.

[RandySF]

51. Vibes?

[atreides1]

53. A possible scenario

If this tit for tat thing continues, the US will be in it up to their necks...because at some point either the Iranians directly or through a proxy group will go after the two largest US military bases in the region, the US base in Qatar and the 5th Fleet HQ located in Bahrain.

Attacks on either of those bases will bring the US into direct conflict with Iran.

[claudette]

54. Violence won't

do it. Talk might

[EX500rider]

65. Yes, certainly no more reasonable men then the Mullah's of Iran who hang gays and beat niqab-less women to death

[claudette]

67. It's worth a try

Better than more death and destruction

[EX500rider]

68. So like, "Hey please stop funding terror groups all over the middle east?"

"And maybe stop chanting DEATH to ISRAEL & AMERCIA! at all your rallies?"

[claudette]

70. Ok

I’m done. I’m sure diplomats would have better ideas than your sarcasm. Bye

[Ping Tung]

61. Violence is the last resort of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov

Yet we humans consider ourselves to be the very tip top of evolution.

The blockheads on both sides lack the wisdom to reach a non-violent solution.

[PCIntern]

62. Sternly worded letter, right?

[EX500rider]

66. Or maybe just a "tut-tut" and a finger wag...

...I mean it was only 110 IRBM's, practically a pat on the back, right?

[RandySF]

76. Don't you know?

Israel is only allowed to combat terrorism with a hand tied behind his back.

[Aussie105]

77. 'Smiting your enemies' is big in the Middle East.

Centuries of smiting your enemies with bigger and bigger weapons has been going on, it is popular in that part of the world.

Smiting shall continue until large parts become uninhabitable and one side cries enough.

The answer to stop it now is . . . mumble, mumble . . .

Yeah, nah, I got nothing.

[Mark.b2]

78. Cyber-attack nt

[republianmushroom]

80. According to our republican party, thoughts and prayers would do the trick.