Campus Protests Are Called Disruptive. So Was the Civil Rights Movement

[WhiskeyGrinder]

https://time.com/6975559/mlk-gaza-civil-rights-history/

A month after King’s City College address, Black Brooklynites staged pickets intended to disrupt—and ideally halt—construction work at the Downstate Hospital because construction companies excluded Black workers. Protesters even laid down in front of construction vehicles. Hundreds were arrested day after day.

(snip)

By 1969, City College was still 91% white; while CUNY’s Brooklyn College was 96% white. Alongside student strikes across the country that accelerated in the wake of Dr. King’s assassination, a massive movement at CUNY crescendoed in the spring of 1969. Student protesters challenged CUNY’s segregation, its nearly-all-white faculty, and a biased curriculum. At City College, students engaged in a two-week occupation of the campus. At Brooklyn College, they took over a faculty meeting, had mass demonstrations, briefly took over buildings, and engaged in minor arson and vandalism. And they faced massive criminalization.

The Brooklyn College administration got an injunction against students congregating on campus and the NYPD raided the homes of 17 Brooklyn College activists who then faced multiple felony charges. The media framed them as Communists and terrorizers, and many city leaders and residents saw them as reckless and dangerous. But many Black and Puerto Rican community members rallied around them, continuing the pressure. And these protests ultimately succeeded in the establishment of Africana and Puerto Rican studies departments, the diversification of the faculty, and open admissions at CUNY.

Fast forward 55 years, universities like CUNY and Columbia now celebrate those activists of old, featuring this activism on their websites and praising them in anniversary celebrations of Africana and Puerto Rican Studies. Yet, university administrations brought the NYPD to violently break up the encampments; Brooklyn College suspended all outdoor activities, and Columbia canceled its commencement.

[yagotme]

1. Civil rights movement was for INCLUSION.

Current fiasco is for EXCLUSION. Try again.

[BannonsLiver]

5. Yes, there's so much desperation to equate the two when they are nothing alike.

It’s quite ludicrous and of course diminishes the civil rights movement as well. Bizarro world stuff.

[DemocraticPatriot]

102. Yeah, 'nothing alike'. The civil rights movement wanted our citizens to have their rights,

the Gaza protesters only want to stop women and children from BEING KILLED by the thousands....

I'll wager that more women and children have been killed in Gaza in the past 7 months,
than civil rights protesters were killed during the two decades or so that those protests went on....

Yes, there is "desperation", but not such as you describe it..

[yagotme]

115. "...nothing alike..." Are you sure?

the Gaza protesters only want to stop women and children from BEING KILLED by the thousands....

Seems to me the demand lists that are coming out are more self serving than just a cease fire. And, how is denying access/assaulting Jewish students making their point? The students don't have control over the Israeli government, nor do the colleges. Nor do we, as a nation. We can ASK, perhaps persuade, but DIRECT control is not in our capability. Our civil rights protests were aimed at changing policy toward/about American citizens, in our own country. Something we have a direct relation to. Controlling what happens in another country, across the ocean, is NOT similar, or alike.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

20. Correct

[Doc Sportello]

31. Wrong on every count

The civil rights movement was about gaining the rights they were promised, not "inclusion" as you put it. But if you want to bring up that false equivalence, then the many Jewish students protesting are certainly included in the protests against the slaughter in Gaza.
One of many, many examples:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

And if you want to talk about violence, nothing from the protestors has come close to the physical violence protestors suffered at UCLA. An attack that was applauded by one of the Israel can do nothing crowd on here.
Another example for those who publicize Jewish students not feeling safe: https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/09/us/arizona-state-scholar-video/index.html

And if you really want "inclusion" then how about saying something about the tens of thousands of women and children who have been slaughtered in Gaza? Do you include them in your thoughts. Because I've seen a lot of mehs, war happens and other rationalizations on here.

BTW, if MLK was alive today, he would be supporting these protestors. Just as he supported stopping the U.S. slaughter of civilians in Vietnam.

[yagotme]

37. How am I wrong?

Current protestors are not trying to include a minority section of the population into the college, they are trying to exclude them. Civil rights movement, as you say, "gaining the rights they were promised,", which means the protestors were protesting so THEY could be INCLUDED in the college rolls, right? Current protestors are trying to shut colleges down (somewhat succeeding, in some cases), denying entry to a certain group, which is NOT "their" group (EXCLUSION), because they feel the college "supports" the home country of those students they are trying to exclude. If you can't see the difference between these 2 different scenarios, I don't know what to tell you.

[jimfields33]

51. It's actually very offending to compare the two

In this country, African Americans were not treated as Americans and fought back. The Palestinians in America are treated as Americans.

[yagotme]

54. I didn't consider the word "offended", but it sure seems to apply. nt

[DemocraticPatriot]

104. But in Gaza, Palestinian civilians, women and children are treated as 'collateral damage'

and are being killed by the thousands...

[yagotme]

116. Being used as human shields, and being killed by Hamas directly.

The blame goes to Hamas for "collateral damage". If Hamas would only surrender, lay down their arms, release ALL the hostages, stop firing missiles at Israel, stop their terror attacks against other nations, try to love peacefully with their neighbors...

[womanofthehills]

149. Israel will buster bomb a whole block of kids & families

To get one low level Hamas guy. In the US, we would not bomb a high school if one terrorist was in the school.

Different strokes for different folks.

[yagotme]

150. Israel HAS given warnings before attacks. Hamas has not.

Different strokes, again...

[yardwork]

66. How do you know what MLK would say if he were alive today?

It's offensive to put words in the mouths of people who are deceased.

[yardwork]

65. I came here to post that exact point!

The Civil Rights movement was about increasing equity, not demonizing Jewish people.

[malaise]

93. The protests are not about demonizing Jews

They are about the war crimes and genocide being meted out against the Palestinian peoples. They are about worse than apartheid and land theft by settlers.

[DemocraticPatriot]

105. It is now 'fashionable' to oppose death by bombing of thousands of women and children

and civilians in Gaza ?

Thanks for that information.... I was misinformed that it was always 'fashionable' to oppose the mass killing of many thousands of women and children-- but glad to know that it is 'fashionable' now!


This thread is making me sick to my stomach, to read what is being said by presumed Democratic liberals, in the defense of actions which many in the world community consider to be GENOCIDE....

[yagotme]

117. "The protests are not about demonizing Jews"

Regardless of initial intent, that's what's happening now. Why, I wonder? Perhaps the hatred of Jews from that area of the world is spilling onto our shores. Again.

[Demsrule86]

127. Whether intentional or not. It is now- attacking American Jews even kids. It is a bad scene and helps no one.

[Cha]

82. Excellent Point.. there's No comparison between Rosa

Parks and those Screaming "Death to America{ "Genocide Joe" Screaming at Jewish People to Got Back to Poland".. Attacking Jewish Students , at times Violently, Smearing Jewish Businesses.

Rosa Parks made Good Trouble .. These Assine Anti Semitic s Weaken their cause .

[DemocraticPatriot]

106. Rosa Parks was arrested, NOT KILLED---

Thousands of women and children in Gaza were not so fortunate....

So you're right, Rosa Parks should not be compared with the victims in Gaza,
since she thankfully survived the violation of her human rights...


Any protesters screaming 'death to America' or 'Genocide Joe', or engaging in any antisemitic words or actions are WRONG, but they are a tiny minority of those who are protesting against the crimes against humanity occurring in Gaza-- the vast majority of whom are sincere, and absolutely in the right!

It truly sickens me to see presumed Democratic liberals attempting to smear the majority of those who are protesting against mass murder in Gaza, with the actions of a misguided few...


You know, we had an FBI director during the civil rights movement, who was sure that Martin Luther King was a communist...
and that was one of the accusations against those who protested during the civil rights movement...

[yagotme]

118. How about those shouting/posting signs and banners "Intifada". Are they wrong?

And the ones shouting "I am Hamas!" Are they wrong?

It sickens me to see presumed Democratic liberals defend those proclaiming allegiance with a known, listed terrorist group, that boldly attacked another nation, murdering innocents, and when that other nation responds, all the blame seems to be transferred to it, to the point of even saying that Oct 7 is to no longer to be considered a reason for the Israeli attack. Oh, yes, I've seen that posted. More than once.

[DemocraticPatriot]

103. The Gaza protests ARE for 'inclusion'--- inclusion with the LIVING,

rather than the DEAD.... for the women and children in Gaza....

Civil rights are very important, of course---
but they are eclipsed by the right to STAY ALIVE!

Try again yourself.

[yagotme]

119. Then they need to go protest the Hamas government. In Gaza.

Not assault/deny freedom to Jewish students that have NO control over the Israeli government. Go over there, and protest THEM. They are the ones who are responsible for the current mess. THEY started it. I'll make a wager, that even IF they went over there to protest, it wouldn't end well. Especially with all those females, who are speaking and yelling without being spoken to, and not having their faces/hair covered properly. And not being dressed properly. And being in public without a male relative escort. No, I think a Hamas protest would not fare well, at all...

[debm55]

2. No way are they are the same. No way at all.

[RandySF]

3. Help me out here.

I wasn’t alive during the 1960’s but I never read about Black protesters preventing a specific group of students from entering school facilities.

[H2O Man]

6. Glad to help.

Read the classic book "The Strawberry Statement."

[malaise]

112. You nailed it

As usual

[Think. Again.]

8. Yeah!...

....even Rosa Parks wouldn't be so rude as to disrupt social norms!

Oh, wait...

[RandySF]

11. Would you equate denying Jewish students entry to campus facilities with Ms. Park's not getting out of her seat?

[Think. Again.]

12. First of all...

...the protesters were denying EVERYBODY entry TO THE PROTEST ENCAMPMENT.

Secondly, Rosa Parks denying others access to a seat on a bus in order to make her point is similar, yes. The same could be said for the Woolworth lunch counter sit-in.

[yagotme]

25. They also denied Jewish students access to certain areas.

Why were Jews alone denied access?

[Mossfern]

30. Rosa Parks did not deny anyone a seat

this is just disingenuous.

[Cha]

77. I know.. Shocking.

[Think. Again.]

87. If refusing to vacate a seat so other (white) passengers could use it...

...isn't denying access to that seat to others, I don't know what would be.

[Dr. Strange]

98. As a passenger she took up ONE seat.

She didn't stand at the door of the bus and prevent other passengers from entering the bus.

[Demsrule86]

85. She didn't deny anyone a seat...I suggest you check google. She merely refused to give up her seat.

Big difference.

[Think. Again.]

88. If refusing to vacate a seat so other (white) passengers could use it...

...isn't denying access to that seat to others, I don't know what would be.

[Demsrule86]

120. If you can't see the diference, I can't help you. And that was an Amercan protest for our civil rights.

These are two different countries...Truthfully we can encourage peace and not much else we can do. The protests are not helping anyone.

[Think. Again.]

122. I didn't ask for your help.

[Demsrule86]

125. You really want to die on this hill? It is OK to call little kids baby killers at an American school. That is OK?

Is it OK to refuse entry to the library to Jewish kids and send death threats to these kids in colleges? Do you feel good about that? I don't. I am horrified by this behavior.

[Think. Again.]

126. You're the one who can't seem to move on.

[yagotme]

40. Yeah, she denied a seat to all those white guys, and threatened and assaulted them when they tried

to sit in the same area she did. Completely closed off that section of the bus, so no one that was white could sit there. Camped out there for days. Demanded the bus company feed her and provide medical care for her. I see the connection you're making now...

[Think. Again.]

41. Did you happen to see...

...the interview that Hillary Clinton did denouncing internet misinformation?

She makes an important point.

[yagotme]

44. Yes, I did.

Did you see my facepalm? It makes an important point, too.

ETA:

Secondly, Rosa Parks denying others access to a seat on a bus in order to make her point is similar, yes. The same could be said for the Woolworth lunch counter sit-in.

In reference to your Hillary reminder...

[Think. Again.]

50. If refusing to vacate a seat so other (white) passengers could use it...

...isn't denying access to that seat to others, I don't know what would be.

[yagotme]

53. The seat she was required to "give up" was in the "black" section.

https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/rosa-parks#December_1,_1955:_Rosa_Parks_Is_Arrested

Segregation was written into law; the front of a Montgomery bus was reserved for white citizens, and the seats behind them for Black citizens. However, it was only by custom that bus drivers had the authority to ask a Black person to give up a seat for a white rider. There were contradictory Montgomery laws on the books: One said segregation must be enforced, but another, largely ignored, said no person (white or Black) could be asked to give up a seat even if there were no other seat on the bus available.

Nonetheless, at one point on the route, a white man had no seat because all the seats in the designated “white” section were taken. So the driver told the riders in the four seats of the first row of the “colored” section to stand, in effect adding another row to the “white” section. The three others obeyed. Parks did not

She was asked to vacate a seat that she was (at the time) legally allowed to have. It was the decision of the bus driver to "recalibrate" the seating, removing black passengers from a "black" row, changing it to a "white" row, so 1 white man could have a seat. SHE was the one being denied a seat, due to the decision of the bus rider. She was already seated, in "her" section.

[Think. Again.]

55. I rest my case.

[yagotme]

56. So, Rosa Parks is similar to terrorist-supporting, Jew-hating individuals denying Jews access

to college facilities they are paying for. Gotcha. Take all the rest you need.

[Think. Again.]

70. I wasn't comparing Ms. Parks to the provocatuers.

[yagotme]

114. From your post #12:

in order to make her point is similar, yes. The same could be said for the Woolworth lunch counter sit-in.

I was referring to ALL the protestors involved in the violence. Not all of them were provocateurs. So, your statement is incorrect, twofold.

[Think. Again.]

121. And as is clear in my post...

I was referring to the provocateurs when I said I wasn't comparing Ms. Parks to the provocateurs.

[yagotme]

128. You initially compared her to the protestors.

The protestors include the provocateurs. Therefore, by association, you compared her to the provocateurs. Next?

[Think. Again.]

130. You don't understand how discussions work, do you?

[yagotme]

132. Perfectly.

Explain to me how my line of reasoning is wrong. "The protestors" is all-inclusive. No distinction was made. And, "That's not what I meant" doesn't work. I can only go on what you actually posted.

[Think. Again.]

138. Instigators, provocateurs, chaos agents, etc...

are not protesters.

[yagotme]

139. Yes, they are, when they are imbedded with the protestors.

Their INTENT may be different, but you can't pick one from the other during a mass protest.

[Think. Again.]

141. They are not protesters.

[yagotme]

142. YOU say that.

THEY don't. They are standing side by side with the protestors, holding the same items, saying the same things. Indistinguishable. Until you separate them, and find out who they really are. Until then, they are, "protestors".

[Think. Again.]

143. Protesters are the people who are protesting...

...others who are there for different reasons are not protesting and therefore are not protesters.

I say that.

[yagotme]

144. The people that are there to not protest are protesting to cover the fact that they are not there to not protest.

It's called camouflage. Subterfuge.

[Think. Again.]

145. And they are not protesters.

[yagotme]

146. While they are protesting. nt

[Think. Again.]

147. Protesters protest, people faking protesting are not protesters.

(Can we stop?)

[yagotme]

148. Stop? You're making the assertion that individuals standing with protestors,

chanting with protestors, holding signs with protestors, aren't really protestors. I'm asserting they are mixing in with the REAL protestors, to hide themselves. You seem to want to argue that point, so here we are.

[Demsrule86]

123. It is not the same-now if she stood by door and wouldn't LET white men in at all...that is what we have here. And these

are American citizens in their own country? By what right do these protesters have to behave this way?

[Think. Again.]

124. I respect your anti-first amendment position...

...but I don't agree with it.

[Demsrule86]

129. That is fine. I don't want to see right wing assholes emboldened by antisemitic bullshit from these protests.

[Think. Again.]

131. My belief is that it is...

...rightwing assholes who are instigating the antisemitic bullshit.

[Nixie]

10. Exactly. The civil rights protests also weren't about

overlooking terrorists in another country.

This whole angle is just too dumb for words.

[H2O Man]

4. Recommended.

The anti-war protests were disruptive, too. It's kind of sad to see people of my generation have orgotten.

[MineralMan]

24. All protests are disruptive. That's their nature.

Civil rights. Anti-war. Anti-genocide. In that sense they are all the same.

And the society always reacts poorly to those protests, because...well...disruptive. In the end, though, they have their impact and can lead to change.

I was involved in the civil rights and anti-war protests. Heavily. Protestors were arrested, sometimes harmed, and still had an impact, all the same.

It's all one thing, IMO. Addressing injustices.

[nevergiveup]

38. Thank you.

I was there too. You are, of course, historically correct.

[Mossfern]

32. Anti war protests were because the US was involved in the war

and young Americans were being drafted into the army.
This is not equivalent what so ever.

[H2O Man]

49. Depends on how

one defines "involved."

[Demsrule86]

86. And what did they really accomplish? Nixone was elected twice. The war continued.

[DemocraticPatriot]

107. The direct involvement by US troops would have continued for a lot longer,

without the domestic protests against the war... those protest forced both Johnson and Nixon to look for a way out.

Very disappointed in you for belittling those protests.

[Sky Jewels]

101. We send huge sums of money and weapons to Israel

and they use it to slaughter and starve tens of thousands of innocents and level their cities.

I am glad that the world is seeing that not all Americans condone genocide. Many millions of us are horrified and appalled, including a large number of Jewish Americans.

I applaud the protesters, who have been overwhelmingly peaceful in their conduct.

[Mossfern]

110. Again, not the same.

[Nixie]

7. Ludicrous comparisons. It just shows the desperation.

[debm55]

28. Agree with you Nixie. Many of the marchers died or were badly beaten for equal rights. This right now is like cosplay.

At the height of the Vietnam protests, 42% of the American people were against the War. How can people compare what is going on in college campuses to the Civil Rights movement. I will even add, "How dare they?"

[Mossfern]

33. Rec'd!

Thank you

[Nixie]

95. Thx, Deb, and you nailed it with "how dare they" compare

their privileged campus life and all its comforts to the Civil Rights Movement which was not about using protests to harm another group or to inflict hate speech on others.

Now one returnee is equating them to Jesus Christ etc in this thread. It's an embarrassing but sad delusion for them.

[debm55]

64. And a lot of Jews marched for egual rights beside their African American brothers and sisters. And some died for that

right beside their AA brothers and sisters. I hate when people bring this up in the OP

[Mountainguy]

9. Trucker blockades were call disruptive too.

Major difference in protesting directly against the mechanism that is oppressing you vs protesting against people who have nothing to do with what you are upset about while also not understanding what you are upset about.

[Think. Again.]

13. You do understand that...

...the campus protests are directed at the school's refusal to divest financially from Israel, right?

[Sympthsical]

15. We're discussing tactics

People are saying disruption = good. Even the disruption of the bridges.

So why the condemnation of the truckers and not these protesters.

Could it be because this isn't really about principle and more about, "What argument do I need to make right now that fits my politics?"

Perish the thought that people would be so brazenly and hypocritically utilitarian.

[Think. Again.]

16. No, Mountainguy and I were discussing...

"...protesting directly against the mechanism that is oppressing you..."

[Sympthsical]

19. Well, we see people protesting against Jews in America

Quite often and with great relish.

Are Jews in America the oppressors?

(And if the answer is "I haven't seen any" or "It's all outsiders" or "It's sneaky subversives from Russia/the right-wing/the penguin mafia!" there's no use pursuing this interaction any further.)

[Think. Again.]

27. No, Jews in America, as a whole, are definitely not oppressing anyone, that I am aware of.

...in fact, I believe that the American society, as a whole, is extremely oppressive to Jewish Americans in a very consistent and systemic way.

[sarisataka]

26. Wrong

They demand divestment, severing all research, programs, exchanges with Israeli universities and removal/banning of organizations that support Jewish students. Their actions indicate they would also like to ban Jewish students, i.e. "Zionists"

[Think. Again.]

29. No, the protests are based on the university's refusals to divest from Israel financially.

[sarisataka]

43. Here-

Link to tweet

There have been other protests that made similar demands

[Think. Again.]

48. Those demands were made after the initial protests were formed...

...and those demands are being made only by the group 'Students for Justice in Palestine' which do not represent the original protest organizers.

[sarisataka]

57. I can only lead you to the water

the rest is up to you

Here https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218923962 you can see how many said "that isn't what the protests are about"

[Think. Again.]

71. How gracious of you.

The protests were initiated to draw attention to the initial protestercs call for the universities to divest from Israeli interests in response to netanyahu's actions in Gaza.

[sarisataka]

76. Looking back to where the goalposts started

In post 13 you said

the campus protests are directed at the school's refusal to divest financially from Israel,

Are. Present tense. Not initially.

But if we want to follow the thought that was their initial intent, what happened to those initial protesters? Why are they not speaking against the direction the protests have gone?

I don't see how banning Jewish support organizations and preventing Jewish students from accessing campus facilities supports the goal of divesting from Israeli interests.

[Cha]

81. Excellent POint.. These so called "protesters" are

protesting Attacking Jewish Students, People, and Businesses.

[Sympthsical]

14. This is all far more Louis Farrakhan than MLK

Have we gotten his thoughts on this matter?

I feel like he would approve. And I feel like some people would very much enjoy what he had to say.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

52. The antisemitism checks out...

Eagerly awaiting the incoming gish gallop…

[brooklynite]

17. Where did the Civil Rights movement disrupt institutions that weren't engaged in denying civil rights?

[Think. Again.]

18. The universities ARE engaged in denying civil rights by...

...their refusal to divest in Israel.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

21. No they're not

[yagotme]

23. So, the universities are at fault because they allow Jewish students to attend classes there?

Surely, that's not what you mean. Unless you mean that the universities should stop supplying arms and material support to Israel, a "divestment". Didn't know they had a hand in that...

[Think. Again.]

34. You are correct, surely that is not what I mean.

The universities have financial investments in Israeli interests that the protests are intended to draw attention to in the hope of reversing those investments.

[yagotme]

42. "Drawing attention to", and shutting down access, denying entry to a certain group, etc.

are completely different means. Peacefully protesting can draw plenty of attention, there was no need to go to the extremes these individuals have gone to. There is hate imbedded in this movement, and that cannot be denied.

[Think. Again.]

45. We might have come full-circle back to...

...the discussion on instigators, provocateurs, and chaos agents, which I don't have time to revisit just now.

[yagotme]

47. I did not reference any of those.

I merely said protestors, which may or may not have outside influences imbedded. The hate I referenced is spread throughout these protests, whether it be instigator, or actual student.

[debm55]

35. Not to be snarky. But it is spelled Israel.not Isreal.

[Think. Again.]

39. Thank you, I try to be as typo-free as possible but it doesn't really seem...

...to be such a big deal here sometimes.

[Jedi Guy]

59. "The universities ARE engaged in denying civil rights by their refusal to divest in Israel."

Where is it written that investing in Israel is a denial of anyone's civil rights? All this time I've had a civil right to demand that entities don't invest with entities I dislike and I never knew?

Learn something new every day, I guess.

[Think. Again.]

73. Being murdered is the ultimate denial of civil rights....

...however, many other actions of Israel under netanyahu against the citizens of Gaza and the West Bank also apply.

[Jedi Guy]

79. Universities aren't murdering anyone, though, unless I missed a really big news story. That was what you said.

Your assertion that universities are violating anyone's civil rights by refusing to divest in Israel is frankly absurd.

[Think. Again.]

80. um, okay.

[Patton French]

60. So, anyone who is invested in an Israeli company is actively engaged in denying civil rights?

Last edited Fri May 10, 2024, 08:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Interesting.

[Think. Again.]

74. Financial support of entities denying civil rights can imply culpability, yes.

[maxsolomon]

62. Can you expand on that?

Because it makes no sense.

Divestment from Israel is being demanded so these students can feel their universities are "pure", that they're not complicit in the Gaza War or the "Zionist Entity."

But all these students are Americans, too. So sorry kids, but we're all complicit - 75 years of no-questions-asked alliance with Israel, where even the slightest objection to settler policy was off-limits (see: HRC's 2016 AIPAC speech).

[Think. Again.]

75. You might have notice that...

...the many protests are calling for Biden to cease unconditional arms deals with Israel and that, in fact, seems to be causing some concern about the youth vote this fall.

[maxsolomon]

78. I'd have to be blind not to notice that.

That's just one part of what's being demanded of universities. It's a part they have no control over.

[Bad Thoughts]

22. MLK's movement was strategically disciplined

Participants were trained in how to show civil disobedience and how to stay on message. They wanted to show themselves, especially the black participants, as reasonable and respectable. When students sat a lunch counters, they did not verbally attack others, nor did they deny people access. They were focused on specific changes.

Read Waging the Good Fight.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. So the NYPD was brought into Brooklyn CUNY in 1969

AND 2024?

[David__77]

46. I am glad people are speaking out.

[emulatorloo]

58. Stop trying to make fetch happen.

False equivalencies tend to be false.

See post #22, among others.

[betsuni]

94. Exactly. It's not going to happen.

Saying something doesn't make it true.

[LeftInTX]

61. I get more 2016 vibes myself.

[emulatorloo]

67. Yeah no kidding.

[Ping Tung]

63. And: The labor movement, the women's suffrage movement, the Green movement,

and many more. All of them were called subversive and provoked by the ever-popular and scary "Outside Agitators".

Jesus Christ
Socrates
Voltaire
Tom Paine
Alexander Hamilton
Frederick Douglass
Emma Goldman
Sojourner Truth
Martin Luther King
Rosa Parks
Mario Savio
Bettina Aptheker


To name just a few troublemakers who are now seen as heroes.

[jalan48]

68. The Early History of the UW Black Student Union

Long article but worth the read. People were disruptive in the Civil Rights Movement as well as the anit-war movement at the University of Washington in the late 60's, early 70's. Odegaard was the President of the UW.


When most people think of the University of Washington’s Black Student Union (BSU), they probably imagine a student club that holds meetings and sponsors social events. During the late 1960s, however, the Black Student Union was anything but a typical student club. It was an unstoppable force for social change at the University of Washington and beyond.



Part 5: Direct Action

In the afternoon of the following Monday, May 20, a large group of BSU members and their supporters entered Odegaard’s office suite at approximately 5:20pm. They expected to find Odegaard and Gov. Evans there, and they intended to keep the men in the office until their demands were met. Instead the BSU members found that they had interrupted a Faculty Senate Executive Committee meeting and Evans was not present. Several protesters entered the meeting room and sat on the floor while others secured the suite. The subject of the meeting immediately changed to the BSU’s demands and continued with hostile exchanges. By 6:40pm the discussion had stopped, Odegaard and most of the other administrators withdrew into the inner office and were barricaded in by protesters. This left the protesters in the outer-office, along with a few faculty members from the meeting who decided to stay and help the protest. The most prominent of these faculty members was Professor Arval Morris.

More at link.
https://depts.washington.edu/civilr/BSU_beginnings.htm

[PeaceWave]

69. The Civil Rights movement was intended to address flaws in our own Constitution...

Whereas this current "movement" conveniently ignores flaws in the Covenant of Hamas.

[Cha]

83. Thank You!

[Think. Again.]

91. The "current movement" is intended to address....

...wrongful acts of universities and the American government.

[red dog 1]

72. Kick

Thanks for posting.

[elias7]

84. Why the comparisons to the civilian rights movement?

There’ve been plenty of protests thru the years, yet no attempt to associate it with something else. Though many here will disagree, I have to say that this seems like some sort of PR game where people are trying to this this wagon to other trains, such as the genocide, the colonizing, the white supremacy, the apartheid trains, and on and on.

[LeftInTX]

90. They've been attaching Palestinian stuff to the Civil RIghts movement for decades.

It started when the Nation of Islam went over to Saudi Arabia in the 60's and decided that Black Muslims and the Palestinians should merge. It was at the request of the Arabs in order to gain support in the US for the Palestinians, who were hijacking planes at the time. It was a fringe thing for decades and it actually hurt the civil rights movement at the time. Now it's becoming mainstream.

It's like the "Jesus was a Muslim" stuff that gets paraded around. Everyone thinks it's fringe, until it gets repeated enough that people eventually start believing it.

[Torchlight]

89. A entire raft of sealions sails a sun dappeld sea.

Not much I can do as a walrus.

[Think. Again.]

92. Yes, everyone who disagrees with you shall be ....called a funny name.

[Torchlight]

96. It does not follow

Agitation is often... wasteful. At best. Good luck!

[Jedi Guy]

99. Hit sea lions holler just like dogs do, it seems... N/T

[betsuni]

113. They won't give up!

[AnrothElf]

111. Amazing! It's just like the original Wondermark comic strip!

The lack of self-awareness is either feigned or off the charts!

[betsuni]

100. Wrong. Civil Rights movement developed over time (incrementalism) and was highly organized to be effective.

The American public was on their side when the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Nobody was yelling at people walking down the street minding their business or blocking traffic and yelling at cars about something happening in another country with a vague goal of "Stop It," and didn't whine and be dramatic about being hungry or arrested (let alone being attacked and beaten and sometimes murdered) and blame everyone else and pretend to be a victim BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY WERE VICTIMS (also why the public was on their side).

[DemocraticPatriot]

108. 'People become more conservative as they get old' is an old saying...

Some of the responses in this thread would seem to support that idea,
that *some people* become more conservative as they age---
or, as I would state it, more supportive of fascism and genocide and the establishment,
and more dismissive of the principles of our younger citizens.... even self-professed Democrats!

Reading part way through this thread made me sick to my stomach, and I had to quit...

[betsuni]

109. For example? Can you paraphrase what anyone says here that's conservative/supportive of fascism

and genocide and the establishment? What's the establishment? The Biden administration?

[delisen]

137. Sometimes they become wiser as they remember

that the far right used the events of the 1960s to get Richard Nixon as president.

Nixon as bad as he was in almost ending the rule of law in the US, was not a Donald Trump.

Does anyone really think that Donald Trump in a second term will not immediately move to end human rights here and everywhere? He will also be supported in his quest to end democracies by dictators all over the world.

Students are right to speak out and demonstrate against the tragedy in Gaza, but how do we prevent the dictatorship waiting in the wings from seizing power by using the unrest to win what could be our last free election?

[BlueTsunami2018]

133. Civil rights protests were about the discrimination in the United States.

Vietnam protests were about a war we were fighting and the American kids being sent off to die for no reason.

These astroturf protests, featuring assholes supporting terrorist groups, chanting “Death to America” and “Genocide Joe” are quite dissimilar from the protests to make progress in THIS country. We aren’t Israel, we aren’t Gaza. This is neither our fault nor our problem and this craziness is only helping bring back the worst asshole to ever serve in high office.

This bullshit is helping him. Which the entire point.

The unwitting dupes going along with it will really have something to protest if he wins again. Except they won’t be able to, because all that shit ends when he does.

Perspective, we really could use some.

[EllieBC]

134. Oh noes. People didn't like other people harassing

Jewish students in the US. Truly anti civil rights definitely.

[Jirel]

135. Obviously.

So were the anti-apartheid/divestment protests. So were the anti-Vietnam War protests. So were the Occupy protests. And on, and on.

Yet somehow every bunch of folks who don’t like what students are protesting, conveniently forget everything that came before, and are “shocked” at the disruption on campus and elsewhere.

Same intellectually dishonest sh*t, different decade.

[patphil]

136. Concerning the actions of the protesters, the current protests are very mild compared to what I saw in the 60's.

The only problem I see is the personal hatred that is being expressed by some of the protesters.
That's always counter productive, and seriously detracts from the message.
Martin Luther King was a powerful force for non-violent change. The pro-Palestine movement needs such a voice, both to speak and lead by example.

[JCMach1]

140. False comparison... Campus protesters are literally

Protesting for almost nothing.

I.e. there is really nothing positive they will/can achieve.

[Aussie105]

151. Cutting through all the above bull . . .

Protests are meant to be disruptive.
(But they shouldn't overstep the line as far as the personal safety of others goes.)

Protesting the IDF caused deaths of Palestinians and the involvement of the US in that doesn't make a person antisemitic or anti-Jew or pro-HAMAS, it just makes you a humanitarian.

I'm still wondering what hold Israel has over the US.

When people see weapons of war as a solution to any problem, the human race needs a big rethink.
(But it is part of the American psyche, a gun can make your problems go away.)