Father fatally shoots son outside Pennsylvania gun store

[jsr]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Little Star (a host of the General Discussion forum).

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/09/us-usa-pennsylvania-shooting-idUSBRE8B800S20121209

Father fatally shoots son outside Pennsylvania gun store

(Reuters) - A seven-year-old boy was shot to death by his father on Saturday in the parking lot of a gun store in western Pennsylvania in an apparent accident, state police told Reuters.

Craig Allen Loughrey was shot in the chest by a handgun his father, Joseph V. Loughrey, 44, was holding as they were getting into the family vehicle at Twig's Reloading Den in Mercer, about 60 miles north of Pittsburgh, a Pennsylvania State Police spokesman said.

The boy died at the scene of the shooting, which happened at 10:50 a.m. His father was questioned by investigators, but police said the evidence pointed to an accident.

The two were from nearby Fredonia, Pa., police said.

[HangOnKids]

1. Holy Shit!

RIP poor innocent child.

[MH1]

61. Much more detail in this article:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/08/boy-shot-to-death-pa-gun-store/1755809/

Loughrey was trying to sell two guns at the store — one a scope rifle and the other, the handgun, state police said. The owners told Loughrey the store doesn't buy guns so Loughrey and his son returned to the truck with them. Loughrey put the boy in the passenger seat and loaded the rifle into the truck, state police said. He was attempting to get inside and reached to put the handgun in the center storage console when it fired, they said.

For some reason the man thought it was important to keep his loaded gun in the cab of the truck with him, within reach. Even though he had just been trying to sell the gun.

[northoftheborder]

2. This kind of story just makes my hair stand on end with anger and stomach churn with sadness.

[BlueJazz]

3. Poor Kid, Poor Father. They're both dead.

[riverbendviewgal]

4. tragic

I think this father will never forgive himself.

[Logical]

11. Nor should he. Use god dammed common gun sense. Idiot.

[MrSlayer]

5. If only that kid was armed.

This might have been prevented.

[Electric Monk]

12. Beat me to it. Oh, and ibtl.

[sellitman]

52. You beat me too it too. NT

[rocktivity]

6. An accident? When you're holding the gun as you're getting into a vehicle?

And you're leaving a shooting range, which is all the more reason to ensure that your weapon is unloaded and stored properly? Sounds more like manslaughter to me.


rocktivity

[hack89]

7. It is negligence not an accident. nt

[loli phabay]

10. plus one.

[theHandpuppet]

21. Absolutely agree

Carrying a loaded gun, safety off? Gee, we can sort of guess the possibilities here.

[Skittles]

8. "guns don't kill people"

actually, they do

[otohara]

15. every dang day

I hate guns and this tired old lie!

[KharmaTrain]

25. A Great Retort...

I heard this the other night and tried it on a couple gun nuts...

"OK...if guns don't kill people...then did Babe Ruth hit all those home runs without a bat??" (I'd use Hank Aaron - not Bobby Bonds - but I figure most gun nuts would relate to the white guy vs. the black one)

Then listen for the crickets...

[aikoaiko]

41. Hear. Hear. Strike Babe's name for the records and insert Louisville Slugger.

[pipoman]

48. This doesn't even make sense...

You are making the opposite argument that you are claiming to make. Babe's bat didn't hit all those home runs by itself, nor did it hit them in the hands of others...no, babe hit all those home runs using a tool called a bat. Bats don't hit home runs, people with talent hit home runs.

[KharmaTrain]

49. Let's Make This Simple:

Babe used a bat to hit the home runs...without the bat he may be able to do it, but he'd have sore hands.

People use guns to kill other people...without the gun they still may be able to do it, but it sure makes the killing a lot easier.

If that doesn't make sense to you then sucks to be you.

Cheers...

[pipoman]

57. Which is, again,

guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people. And if you don't understand that, which you obviously do because you have now said it in 2 posts, then it is pure inability to understand common sense.

[Loudly]

59. Home runs good. Shooting victims bad.

Tools have purposes.

[KharmaTrain]

60. There's The Disconnect

...and why I usually avoid these types of "discussions" as it gets into the parsing words rather than looking at the tragedy guns create. Guns kill. Period. That's what they're designed for. It makes killing other people easier. Needless losses of life made a lot easier due to the easy accessibility to a gun.

Those who lose a loved one due to gun violence only understand one thing...a loved one was taken from them for no good reason. Make sense of that if you will...

[aikoaiko]

43. I say the father who pointed a loaded gun at his child killed his son.

Parents sometimes do irresponsible, careless actions that lead to the death or injury of their children.

[Berserker]

54. Actually they don't

Did the article say the gun left the store on it's own then proceeded to the parking lot and decided on it's own to fire? I believe there was human intervention like ALL firearm incidents.
Show us all one single incident where a gun goes on it's own without a human and shoots people.
I will wait for link.

[Ernesto]

9. Trained by the USMC to not have a gun fetish

Powerful guns & ammo everywhere + plenty of people that knew how to use 'em........... Who needs that kind of life?

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[tabasco]

66. Combat infantry vet here

No need for guns anymore.

[krawhitham]

13. Involuntary Manslaughter

[longship]

14. Guns don't kill people?

That gun did.

[Warren Religion]

16. We all know the stats

But the NRA has shushed our so-called "leaders" into silence.

[Tireman]

18. For the love of a gun(s)

a little boy is dead. Why?

[baldguy]

44. Because a small group of fanatics flood the public discourse with lies & propaganda

And our "leaders" are too cowardly to enact rational gun laws.

[Ya Basta]

19. Tragic Accident Like this one

[font size="3"]2-Year-Old Killed In Point Marion Dirtbike Accident[/font]

A 2-year-old is dead after a dirtbike accident in Fayette County.

The dirtbike collided with another vehicle in the 300 block of Railroad Street in Point Marion Friday.

Authorities shut down the road while investigators reconstructed the accident scene.

The 2-year-old was on the dirtbike with a 17-year-old male who was taken to Ruby Memorial Hospital for treatment.

There is no word on the teenager’s condition



http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/07/06/fatal-motorcycle-accident-in-point-marion-probed/

[Fla Dem]

45. The difference is dirt bikes are for recreation, the only purpose of a gun is to kill.

Yes I know, some people buy guns for "recreation" and others as collectors. But intrinsically, the only real purpose of a gun is to kill. Sure people are killed/injured everyday in recreational vehicles, regular vehicles, crossing the street, falling down stairs, choking on food. But none of those deaths are the result of an instrument created for the sole purpose for killing.

[pipoman]

56. Wrong, of coarse..

by your own admission.



Every single weekend within 50 miles of anywhere in this country there are hundreds of thousands of people shooting recreational ranges, events, and competitions.

Oh, and you forgot residential swimming pools which kill around 10 times more people 15 years and younger than firearms even though between 1/3 and 1/2 of US households have guns and 1/8 of households have swimming pools.

No, there is danger in recreational activities. Calculated risks if you will. And firearms are statistically no more dangerous than most any other outdoor recreational activity.

[baldguy]

47. When dirtbikes start killing 30,000+ people each year

& get a politically powerful RW lobby behind them to maintain the death rate, then this might be a valid comparison.

Until then, posts like yours are just apples & oranges bullshit. Thank you for posting the standard death-loving RW talking points.

[Resonance_Chamber]

20. I love how any idiot can legally obtain a gun in 'merica!

I am to the point now that I just don’t give a crap when gun toting idiots shoot each other or their families or friends.

Darwin in action is all it is.

[theHandpuppet]

22. It was the child who was the innocent victim here

It's usually the idiots doing the shootings who survive. And if this man isn't charged with a felony he will be free to continue to carry weapons.

[Resonance_Chamber]

23. and I should give a crap why?

The so called responsible gun owner made the choice to kill their kid.

If it were up to me the guy would be in jail forever but it is not and like you stated he will be able to obtain another gun and be able to kill his kid again providing he has another or makes another hence I don’t give a crap any more about them shooting each other and their friends and families.

It is the choice they made we should respect it.

[no_hypocrisy]

24. What was the father thinking, having his weapon loaded?

[Iggy]

27. Well, You Know, with all the Criminals Running Up and Down the Street

there at all hours of day and night...

[MH1]

62. same reason it needed to be within reach in the truck's cab

even though he had just been trying to sell it.



people do dumb things.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/08/boy-shot-to-death-pa-gun-store/1755809/

Loughrey was trying to sell two guns at the store — one a scope rifle and the other, the handgun, state police said. The owners told Loughrey the store doesn't buy guns so Loughrey and his son returned to the truck with them. Loughrey put the boy in the passenger seat and loaded the rifle into the truck, state police said. He was attempting to get inside and reached to put the handgun in the center storage console when it fired, they said.

For some reason the man thought it was important to keep his loaded gun in the cab of the truck with him, within reach. Even though he had just been trying to sell the gun.

[former-republican]

26. tragic

There are no firearm accidents only negligence with a firearm.

[virtualobserver]

28. Every freedom leads to the death of a certain percentage of the population.....

Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.........as well as Automobiles, Big Macs and the freedom to vote Republican (death by unnecessary war).

[DrDan]

30. the difference, of course, is that the sole purpose of guns is to kill

[hack89]

31. The sole purpose of alcohol is to get drunk

which in turn leads to deaths due to drunken driving, domestic and child abuse, depression and suicide.

Sure there are some drinkers that are responsible but that does not justify the damage alcohol does to society.

[DrDan]

32. the sole purpose of alcohol is NOT to get drunk

simply an outcome of overdoing it

[hack89]

35. So because some people don't abuse it alcohol is ok

but because some people abuse guns they are not ok.

It is not really about the harm to society is it? It is just about guns.

[DrDan]

37. the sole purpose of guns is to kill

your analogy does not work - it is akin to saying the sole purpose of cars is to speed.

[aikoaiko]

40. Both analogies are ridiculous.

Bullet for bullet killing anyone (even self defense) is probably the last thing guns are used for.

[DrDan]

64. note I said killing, not killing "anyone"

I include hunting

[aikoaiko]

68. Noted. I assume you include plants too.

Still, guns as a whole do not have a sole purpose to kill.

[hack89]

42. My point is how people use them

alcohol does more damage to society then guns yet there is no talk about regulating its use like guns.
I know what is a greater danger to me and my family and it is not guns.

The reason gun control advocates focus on the tool and not the person is so not to expose their hypocrisy when it comes to the other things in our society that do more harm than guns. The "drug and alcohol culture" is accepted here while the "gun culture" is pure evil. Pure hypocrisy is what I call it.

[Fumesucker]

67. I agree

Our laws with respect to recreational drugs are illogical and inconsistent, alcohol should be illegal also if we were to adjust our laws to be consistent.

[virtualobserver]

34. I acknowledge that...

and I am neither a gun advocate nor a gun owner.

I just believe that it is impossible to restrict foolish choices, without restricting freedom.

[former-republican]

36. It was invented for that reason but firearms also used for target shooting

There are many shooters that neither hunt or carry a firearm in their daily lives.

In my club we have a skeet shooting team , it's all they do is shoot clay targets.
Most have no interest in owning or carrying a handgun.

[DrDan]

29. it's tragic that we accept this as simply a cost to try to control with our fear and paranoia

another day, another tragic and unnecessary gun death.

[jimmy the one]

33. Does papa still think his gun purchase such a wise investment?

Does papa still think his gun purchases such a wise investment?
.. how many times I wonder, did he save the life of his kids from hell bent thugs intent on raping & then killing them, by having his gun at the ready? not once I'd bet every time this has happened, & win a fortune overall.

.. of course it's doubtful any charges will be filed, as the gun lobby will importune the poor man has 'suffered enough & will grieve forever, how can you be so cruel to charge him with anything?'.
Altho it's also doubtful individual participants in the gun lobby (IE nra, 2ndA foundation) will stand by papa for long rather than toss him under the bus as a negligent incompetent gun handler who doesn't represent the gazillions of law abiding gun owners who handle & use guns yearly - it's only when those very law abiding gun owners mishandle, murder, or commit gun felonies, are they - SUDDENLY - not law abiding gunowners anymore, they instantly become criminals or incompetents which the nra never has supported in the past, right wayne?
.. pennsylvania, my state actually, is a blue state for obama but currently is rightwing state gov/legislatures, and is pro gun, I think has highest nra membership in the USA. Not that I'm proud of this or anything. The last governor ed rendell, was guncontrol advocate, one gun laws (which didn't pass), & was a good dem governor, but alas, those days are gone.

MORE GUNS MORE LIES.

[99Forever]

38. Do not speak evil of their....

... *precious*.

Are you Unmerikan or what?

[aikoaiko]

39. A tragic consequence of not using basic handgun safety rules.

All guns are always loaded.
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

—Jeff Cooper

This father acted negligently.

[Quantess]

46. How many accidental fatal gun accidents like this occur every year?

This is the biggest problem I have with firearms.

[Selatius]

53. The Swiss way of doing it is preferable, in my opinion.

In Switzerland, they have a military draft. Able-bodied citizens, when they are of age, are trained to serve in units that are stationed in and among the communities. They train periodically to keep the skills fresh.

When they aren't training, they live in the community except that they keep their rifles under lock and key along with the ammunition. This is in case of an emergency, such as a natural disaster or a national emergency like the outbreak of war. In the event of an emergency, the troops are already deployed in the communities; they live there.

The point is that nearly everybody in Switzerland who possesses a firearm is trained in the safe handling and discharging of these firearms. The United States lacks this mechanism.

As a result, gun deaths per capita far outstrips the rate found in Switzerland.

[Hoyt]

58. I like the Swiss approach too. And, very few can carry legally.

[99Forever]

55. Don't know the overall body count, but...

Toddler shot to death by brother at Minneapolis home

Article by: RANDY FURST and NICOLE NORFLEET , Star Tribune
Updated: December 5, 2012 - 11:09 PM

A 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his younger brother Wednesday afternoon while playing with their father's handgun in the family's Minneapolis townhouse, police said.

According to police, the 2-year-old victim, identified by family members as Neegnco Xiong, died after his brother discovered the loaded handgun in a bedroom and it discharged while he was handling it.

Paramedics tried to revive Neegnco, but he died in an ambulance at the scene, said Minneapolis police Sgt. William Palmer, who called the shooting "a horrible accident" and a reminder to safely and properly store firearms.

"The Minneapolis Police Department wants to remind everyone who has a firearm in their home that it is their responsibility to lock up firearms to prevent tragic accidents from occurring," Palmer said in a news release.

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/182243551.html


But it's never time to talk about gun deaths.

[slackmaster]

65. There were 606 fatalities from accidental shootings in 2010 according to the CDC

Roll your own query at http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal_injury_reports.html

[Hoyt]

50. Price we pay to ensure gun culture can add another lethal weapon to their cache, or buy the lastest

lethal weapon any time they feel the need/urge.

Daddy was probably planning on leaving the lethal weapon to his son someday . . . . .

[bluestate10]

51. I chose not to own a gun as an adult. But I grew up around guns. My parents taught me to

never point a gun barrel toward another person at any time.

[slackmaster]

63. Basic gun safety should be taught in public schools

A person has to violate at least two of the rules of safe gun handling for an "accidental" shooting to occur. Anyone who is old enough to legally acquire a firearm should be familiar with the basics of firearm safety.

[Hoyt]

70. I'm for that as long as those enamored with guns don't teach it.

Like cigarettes and such, let's teach kids that guns are detrimental to society from an early age.

[justanidea]

69. I dont understand why the first thought in people's minds

When something like this happens is more gun control.

Seems to me a much more effective thing to combat something like this would be to push for more low cost/free gun safety courses. The real NRA (not the crazy right wing legislative action branchof the org) offers a lot of them but they arent everywhere in every town. Other organizations should be offering courses to teach gun owners the basic rules of firearms safety.

This case was nothing but negligence on the part of the father. Negligence he will have to live with for the rest of his life. If he had learned proper safe gun handling, this tragic incident could have been avoided.

Sad.