Saying this here on DU and on FB

[The Straight Story]

I have lost several friends now (and my ignore list went up 5 this week on du, 26 ignoring me now).

On FB my friends who are mainly Christian and RW have ditched me, including my cousin, because I am too liberal. The most recent to unfriend me has been a dear friend from high school. His wife and I remain friends (for now)

On DU - well, guess I am too conservative somehow or, perhaps, I have learned that on DU like FB, if you don't agree you are a hater/sheep/evil/etc and so on.

My post to both places:

I have defended gays and their rights. Those who want their religious freedoms - I have been there beside you. Women who deserve the right to make medical choices? I have stood by you as well.

When people have said 'you cannot work for us because you smoke at home on your off hours' I have defended said people and their right to do what they want on their personal time. Same as I had many others who want to smoke pot even though I do not. I was called a libertarian.

I have railed against the wars because I love our kids here in the US and did not want to see them as canon fodder, and I was called a commie, a peace loving hippie, told I didn't know what I was talking about. People told me I hate America and freedom, that I wanted to see us ran over and to fall.

Stood up for single payer, and lost friends over that because I was seen as a socialist who wanted to raise taxes to help those most in need of care.

After this shooting I did not blame the weapon, but the user of it. And somehow, during this, lost friends here and elsewhere. My friends on the left accused me of being heartless, a gun lover, etc, and my friends on the right have accused me of being a liberal because I did not agree with all the crazy fundamentalist over the cause as it relates to god, good, and evil.

Some friends have said I am a sheep because I won't buy into the whole terrorism meme - all the folks in the middle east are out to get me, we need more security, less rights, more intrusion (tsa/etc) - but here is the thing- When I was a kid we could see our family off when they went on planes, even when I was an adult we could do so. We didn't fear such things as much back then - what changed and why is a question I ask - but when I do so am seen as weak. Ask it today about guns, shootings, etc and folks on the right will jump in and say it is because we kicked God out of schools. Ask them why people a world away want to attack us, try to discuss it, and it is not about God but about how evil islam is. Actions no longer have consequences and attempts to discuss actions/consequences means I hate America (unless, of course, I say the action is not praying in school - to which some on the right will tell me the consequence is what we just saw...how does it all work???)

9/11 comes and folks on the right, under Bush, rushed through changes to 'protect' us. And those same folks today are saying to slow down and not make snap decisions when someone goes into a school and shoots up people.

I didn't agree then. I don't now. I have tried to be consistent and tell people to slow down and think about things. No one really read the patriot act/et all, but we were all for changing things in hopes the government would protect us. We rushed into Iraq, mostly out of fear. Some want to rush in over fear and change gun laws even though they are not sure which ones they want to change or how.

I can't 'win' as they say. Ask for introspection, to review things, ask questions to learn and you are called a commie, liberal, rw fascist, libertarian, et al. Search for truth and answers, ask hard questions, and people run and hide or just call you names.

The government was not the solution to 9/11. If anything they contributed to the cause by their earlier actions. We armed Osama and Saddam, trained them supported them.

They are not the solution to our problems when it comes to mass shootings either. So many own guns, so few use them in such a way. The problem is not religion. It is not Islam, Christianity, Atheists.

The problem is people, their greed, their hatred. And that problem is hard to tackle so we work to avoid it by making laws to give those in power more power in hopes they can control others.

I have said it before, will say it again - if you want change - whether it be to stop abortions (I know many who want to outlaw such) or shootings, obesity, etc, using an elected official is not the right way to go about it. Change the hearts and minds of people, work together as friends, family, neighbors, churches, social groups.

All I am seeing now is hatred. Unfriending, ignoring, etc. Discussion - it is not welcome because it appears that folks on the right and the left have adopted their own religion and are sticking to it and anyone who questions it we want to get rid of.

Don't like me, my questions, my views - ignore me now, unfriend me. Climb into your shell, leave debate behind, and cuddle up to your core beliefs without question.

Live in your bubble. I, for one, welcome debate and discussion, even if heated at times, because I want to keep learning and discussing.

[rrneck]

1. The internet is a tough room to play in.

Lots of people channel their inner child. There are few repercussions for outrageous behavior and many rewards for ego inflation. It's some sort of screwy lens that turns us into extremists.

Try not to let 'em get you down. Go outside, light a cig and look at the stars. You'll feel better.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I'll stand with you, my dear Straight Story.....always.

I couldn't agree more with what you've said here.

I will never ignore you, nor unfriend you. I would miss you too much!

[rDigital]

5. +1 : ) nt

[DollarBillHines]

26. Oh, my dear Peg...

Redstone and I wish you a Merry Christmas...

You know...
DBH

[Honeycombe8]

3. You speak the truth.

I have been on several juries, now, where alerts or jury decisions have been based on a poster's opinion.

I continue to decide those things on the basis on name calling or over the line attacks, etc., without regard to the opinion. Alerts are not supposed to be to stifle discussion or shut up differing opinions. However, other jurors have not based their decisions on that. They are more often deciding based on whether they agree with someone's opinion.

[Warpy]

4. I think we've crossed swords in the past

but you must be able to disagree without being disagreeable, so you're not on my ignore list.

I have a lot more people on my list than are ignoring me. I'm not sure what that means.

[Skittles]

6. YOU WANT I SHOULD KICK SOME IGNORING ASS, WARPY?

I'D DO THAT FOR YOU MY SWEET

[Ellipsis]

14. hahhah hah

Your so much fun. Here I'm readin' down the thread getting alll and blam ...heh heh hee

[Skittles]

25. I GOT YOUR BACK, ELLIPSIS

JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU NEED MY SERVICES

[Warpy]

15. Nah, I think I've probably done a proper job of it

since people are ignoring me.

[loudsue]

7. You're good with me, TSStory

You're good....period.

[rainlillie]

8. Excellent post. You may have lost a friend or two, but

you have gained one in me. Not to say we'll agree on everything all the time, but I think we'll be working for the same goals.

[Grey]

9. I Love You.....

I've been through the 'Live and Learn' thing and I am on your side.
Not listening has never solved anything, Please be a voice for reason.

[Egalitarian Thug]

10. For what it's worth, I have always respected you and therefore listened to your opinions.

We have disagreed, but I've never thought less of you because of that disagreement.

[truegrit44]

11. Excellent post, I agree 1000%

especially your last few paragraphs, keep doing what your doing, the hell with the haters..........

[We People]

12. Please don't go anywhere

Proportionally speaking, no matter how many friends one can have on FB, no matter how popular that person is, is limited to 3,000 I believe. On DU, there are so many more people to talk with, and chances are, most will not even be ignoring you.

We don't all always agree, but I think I have a similar friend situation as you on FB. I feel that I have more in common with most DUers regarding political views than I do that many of my FB friends (from childhood, relatives, etc.).

You have been around here long enough for people to know what kind of person you are, and you probably know lots of folks here too.

Please don't go anywhere or feel unwelcome!

[L0oniX]

13. Bullies grow up and stay bullies and teach their kids to be bullies ...on purpose or by neglect.

The soldier who uses a gun to kill the latest enemy is called brave and a hero but any civilian who owns a gun is a coward and a nut. OK ...the gut nut gorilla in the room is the military (Pentagon and the MIC).

[freshwest]

16. I have no problem with you, friend. Carry on.

[hfojvt]

17. that sorta got long

not that a yakker like me has much room to complain

so I jumped to the end.

The end was very good, and it fits what I see. Not much in the way of communication, or debate, which would involve listening and attempting to understand. Nope, it's more like either you agree with me or there is something wrong with you.

Hell, some here label me as a gun nut. I have never owned nor shot a gun, except for a bb gun once in cub scouts.

But that certainly demonstrates that it is very hard to change somebody's heart or mind. Often laws and politicians can affect that as well as anybody as they have much more access to mass media than most of us.

[sabrina 1]

18. You didn't lose real friends. You lost fair weather friends..

And you are better off without them. People are running around acting like temper tantrum throwing children right now, each side using this terrible tragedy as a political football and in the end nothing will be accomplished, because we go through this now on a regular basis, it's always the same and then it happens again and it will because the problems that lead to this latest massacre are so huge that it will take a national commitment to even begin to start doing something about it.

Meantime there are 28 families who after all those who are raging against one thing or another right now have forgotten all about them, and they will, especially if their favorite politicians don't do what is right and the victims become 'inconvenient' to mention, those families will never get over what happened to them this week.

They will cry when they remember this horrific event ten years from now, twenty years from now. They are changed forever by this horrible act. But all the yellers and the screamers will have forgotten this event in less than a month and will be on to something else.

I'm willing to bet that not a word will be said about this tragedy on DU, FB or anywhere else in a few weeks if not less than that.

It is better to seek out people who can be rational, who really want to find solutions so that these terrorist attacks on children here and everywhere else in the world, finally end.

To do that will be an overwhelming task and will probably take decades if not longer. It took a couple of centuries to get to this point, so it can't be solved by reacting blindly, one way or the other, right now.

What we need are heroes, real leaders to even begin to address this culture of violence we all live in. Meantime it is better to just grieve for the victims, here and everywhere violence takes away innocent lives and think rather than join the noisy mob about how and if we can change.

[defacto7]

19. Anyone who says,

" I, for one, welcome debate and discussion, even if heated at times, because I want to keep learning and discussing. "

... has got my attention and respect. That's what life and reason is all about!

[Patiod]

20. I'm for gun regulation and I gave this a rec

I'm against today's loony NRA, against battle weapons ( I'm afraid to use the incorrect terminology because the gun fans will pile on).
I'm against "slippery slope" 2nd amendment absolutists. As someone said on here earlier, let's put the "well regulated" back in "well regulated militia".

I'm am for folks in rural areas to have whatever they need to hunt and defend against coyotes and bears, and for folks in cities to have a gun locked up safely in their house if they feel the need and they're not a felon or mentally unstable.

Anyone who is willing to talk about solutions to loonies running around the suburbs with Bushmasters - that's okay by me. It's the folks who will brook NO restrictions on their God-given right to any weapon anywhere and any time that make me hit "ignore"

[HiPointDem]

21. witch hunt atmosphere here right now -- no point. i thought if i waited a couple of days it might

be possible to have actual discussion, but not

[Adsos Letter]

22. You speak truth here, my friend.

I've read many of your posts since I came on board in 2007. I consider this to be one of the best I have read, and very timely.

[davidthegnome]

23. That was an excellent post.

When I first read about what happened in CT I was shocked and sad and disgusted. Then I started reading various posts here - and the level of shock, sadness and disgust continued to grow until anger was added to it. There is too much absolutism going around for my liking... and by absolutism, I mean this idea that anyone who owns a gun, supports gun ownership, or isn't immediately ready to repeal the second amendment is somehow a gun nut supporting the NRA.

I have seen posts that said that the blood of children was on the hands of anyone who owned guns, I have seen posts that suggested that anyone who believed in second amendment rights was somehow guilty of the murder of children. For some reason I can't really fathom I decide to go over to the Free Republic as well - and read a whole lot of insane blather and hateful rants directed against liberals, particularly those that favor gun control (which I do).

The gun control debate is something that will go on for many more years to come and I believe steps will be taken to improve regulation. If we can't debate without hating each other though, without seeing each other as the enemy... then there isn't much hope that we can accomplish meaningful change by working together. Maybe I get carried away, I haven't lost any friends over this, but my defenses are certainly up and I'm in a mood to argue.

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time over this. From what I can tell your views seem entirely sane and reasonable. Perhaps in time, when emotions have calmed enough, those friends will apologize and wish to reconcile.

Some times I'm glad to be almost entirely friendless. I may get annoyed or angry at times, but there are precious few people on earth that can truly devastate me.

[w8liftinglady]

24. You're always welcome on the dallas morning news opinion pages

we have some real pieces of work there.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

27. It's so hard to be a libertarian.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240187611

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. This is the most insightful post in this whole thread; ignoring TSS can be a good thing, right now

The thread starter wants to know why he's losing friends? Because of god-awful posts like that.

When TSS has had time to calm down a bit, and is ready to talk like an adult about solutions, rather than repeating knee-jerk NRA talking points and slogans, we can take him off ignore and start a dialogue.

I urge all those recommending this thread, or replying "you're a good guy, TSS" to look at that post.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

44. They've probably seen that thread in Meta and don't care.

I think more than a few people vote for Democrats because of certain issues. (Medicare, unions, etc.) But that doesn't make them liberals. My grandmother was a life long Democrat but was an intense racist and homophobe. Democratic Underground doesn't necessarily mean liberal underground.

[madfloridian]

28. Good post.

Hey don't feel bad. I have only returned to DU recently, and 8 already have me blocked.

[FreeBC]

29. I agree... to an extent. We need pragmatic solutions.

Government can play a role in preventing violence like this. It may be through stricter gun control, or better access to mental health care. But I agree we don't need knee-jerk solutions. We need to analyze the problems and then address them with solution that will actually help.

The last thing I want to see is a democratic gun control bill that would have had no real effect on the more recent tragedies. I don't want to see something symbolic.

[jonesgirl]

30. I'm with ya! How can anyone of us become so brainwashed from the implants within our Country

doing all this harm? We are not helpless people, and we don't need to make laws on every issue. We need to get out of the mindset that the government has to tell us what to do. This issue goes deeper than guns. We need to work together to raise our children together. Our offspring deserve it

[dorksied]

31. I vehemently disagree with your position on guns. But you have a right to your opinion... even if

its wrong.

Guns don't kill people... people kill people with guns. Yes, there are other ways to kill people, but guns are the main cause of person on person deadly violence. And its kinda hard to mass murder with a knife, and the knife wielder is far easier to disarm. Guns just make it easier for sick people to do sick things... so why are we making it easier for them?

My two cents.

[LeftInTX]

32. Emotions are very high right now.

Many of us of focused on the tragedy. It is heartbreaking.
It is bringing out so many emotions.

I agree that gun control is going to take time. It may take more than legislation. It may take an attitude change/shift in our country.

Our country has made a "right turn" in the last decade, but many of those people may be going through a "right wing phase" and will probably come back to their senses. My hope is that common sense will eventually prevail.

On the other hand, there are some "gun nuts" out there, who have suddenly become very defensive over this tragedy. I think these types would be very difficult to deal with.

Peace

[WCGreen]

33. I feel the same way....

When I first came to DU, I read a lot, didn't post that much and then retreated to the Lounge. I had a lot of fun over there and gathered a lot of friends that still make me smile when I think about all the crazy stuff that amused us.

But when I decided to post more on the "serious" rooms, I never looked to see who it was who gave me a rec or if anyone ever hid my posts.

I did this because I wanted to say exactly what I meant without thinking which of my friends would be offended or delighted with my opinions.

I guess that was because I was given to write before the internet was available. The Plain Dealer was kind enough to pay me for several Op-Eds over the years and then I was given the opportunity to write for an alternative weekly here in Cleveland, Ohio.

So I approached my post here in GD as if I was submitting to a newspaper.

Believe you me, I had some very controversial post included one right after the 2004 election stating that president Bush was the president regardless of what happened and said he was my president because I was an American citizen and he was the president. I also said I did not support any of his programs or initiative, especially the wars he involved us in.

I did this exactly because I knew when the next election came around, we would hear from the vocal right that who ever it was was not their president if they happen to be a democrat.

Anyway, I too welcome debate and will never shy away from an honest conversation.

I think that is what makes DU so special. It's an open forum that is the closest I have seen to the old soapbox set up on the town square to give anyone a chance to speak their mind.

That is what makes DU DU.

[ToxMarz]

34. Don't worry about those ignoring you. That's on them and their loss.

It's one thing to get 'ignored' because you are a dick, or confrontational, or insulting. But there seem to be those that choose to just because you have a different opinion. I recently found there were 3 people ignoring me (didn't even know you could do that until I dug down in my profile and found that). Never had an unpleasant interaction that I recall. Just a different opinion. Oh well. I do now, though, avoid commenting on anything coming from the feminism or women's issues groups, as I am not a woman. Those topics seem to jump on me the worst if I post anything contrary to the general opinion, so I just move along . I am guessing that's where I picked up my ignores.

[davidpdx]

35. I'll give you a record

I really hate the drive by mentality of some (excuse the pun) on DU, which I'd bet happened during the discussion you had (I didn't read it). Last night I posted something similar in another thread about this kind of behavior on DU.

I'm for gun control and better mental health treatment. How do we get there? I don't know. If I did I'd be a fucking genius (even I admit I'm smart, but not that smart). We need to openly debate these things and figure a way to fix it. The collective minds are stronger than one individual.

People can dissent without being nasty. There are several issues I have wavered on and fell more to the left as I get older, some because I've thought more about them, some of because of what I've read. We all get there different ways.

I grew up in several different small towns that was so anti anything (take your pick) it was ridiculous, but I have always tried to keep an open mind.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

36. What a self-pitying bore. n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

37. Carry on!

Rec.

[patrice]

38. Careful now, you're going to get accused of being a "third way" -er, when, in fact, you're probably

more of a dialectician http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dialectician?db=dictionary

[Eric the Reddish]

39. DURec

[graham4anything]

40. I have nobody on ignore, and one major group of people ignore me all for a single issue

I am 100% anti-gun and 1000% anti NRA
though if you look at my transparency profile it shows I frequent the pro-gun group on DU
and I do

and 100% of every single post is 100% anti-gun, 1000% anti-NRA and we debate

I block no one, I censor no one, and I donot call for almost any post to be hidden

(can't say the same in reverse but that is their right.)

This is a political discussion board, two answers not echo chambers is what a discussion is suppose to be.

I go to my friends for friendship. Here I discuss political issues. And I keep the two separate.
It is why on the prior board I was on from 2003-Feb.2012 when it instantly disappeared even from cache googled post, I was considered an outsider

I had my view, and people on different topics had theirs

But that place (CGCS, which was the spin off in 2004 from the official Kerry Board of 03-04)
also had a gun section called RA and there were some vicious gun fight debates in it.

I never expected and didn't win them over, however, I did win many others and many outside readers over.

And this anti-gun person was still standing when that board shut down


and yes, there too I had people ignore me, want me off, etc. But I remained there til the end. At which point signed up here. (had 80,000 plus posts over there).

And what is the good of ignore? ALl it leads to is separate threads and a bunch of muddled threads at that, as part of it is hidden and answers then don't make much sense in reading.

So agian, I ignore no one. And politics is strange-
sometimes someone who really disagrees with me on one issue today, will be the one watching my back on another issue next time.

That is what happened over at CGCS during the Terry Schiavo fiasco (and my view is sitll the same which is why I so do love Charlie Crist for spitting in Jeb's face twice and stopping him from interferring with the husband's wishes on that issue).

So these people that ignore on one issue, strikes me as very foolish.

especially on a political debate board.

[ReRe]

41. Whew! I'm so glad this wasn't one of those Dear John letters...

...honestly, I hate to see those things pop up. I'm a new poster, but have been reading DU since the beginning...2001-2002. I'm so new, I don't know how to tell if I'm on anyone's ignore list. I know I haven't ignored anyone, haven't even thought of it, even though I get pretty tiffed at some of these gun enthusiasts.

I am not a "fight-picker." But if someone more or less attacks me out of the blue for no reason at all, it's just not my nature to back down. And of course, if I see someone tearing someone limb from limb (verbally), I might jump in and defend them or detract attention so the "victim" can get away.

I invite you, or anyone, to please jump in and tell me to "cool it " and I will settle down.

My system is to read, read, read and learn here on DU. If I come upon an issue that I feel strongly about, or that I have some insight into from a long life of all kinds of experiences, I reply. I'm just learning DU now. One of these days I will get better at reading offsite and bringing news back to DU like everyone else does.

And I try not to self-censor, but one really has to do a delicate dance around here sometimes, so as not to incite a riot. I am learning (believe it or not) tact & diplomacy.

I am so glad that you are not leaving us, Straight Story.

[nolabear]

43. I'm with you, Darlin'. We may not agree always but let us talk always!

I appreciate more than anything having a real and heartfelt debate, with respect for the person if not love for the opinion. I wish for more everywhere. Thanks for your independent mind and I'll see you here for a long time, I hope (if I don't burn out myself!)

[niyad]

45. I do not bother putting people on ignore, but even if I did, you would not be one of them