Something I want to say to the gunners.

[upaloopa]

The past couple of days here you can find just about any kind of post you want stating just about any kind of sentiment there is on either side of the gun issue.
No matter if you can see it or not, the killings last Friday has changed this debate forever in the way you hoped it never would. We are on that slippery slope you feared we would never be on. There is nothing you can do or say to stop it.
It doesn't matter what other virtues you posses, if you maintain your intransigent stand against any type of gun control or regulation , what you say is wasted words and wasted energy because the tide is now against you. You can help society do something about these killings or not. It doesn't matter because society wants to protect itself from the thing you find so important to yourselves, your guns. It's too late to talk to us about your rights or about the impossibility of gun laws to have any effect on gun violence.
Twenty children in CT are more powerful than all of you millions put together.

[Skittles]

1. America fears gun nuts more than gun nuts fear, well, every fucking thing

we are SICK of their COWARDICE AND IGNORANCE

[ellisonz]

4. They fear not being able to buy...

...whatever gun they want whenever they want for whatever purpose to take anywhere they want.

They're like spoiled children at Christmas...no more presents for them!

[Skidmore]

23. This. My niece's husband told me that he should be able to buy a tank if he wants to

and he firmly believes that he should be able to own any kind of weaponry to defend himself and his family against the government.

[ellisonz]

25. And yet they tell me in the Gungeon...

...that their beliefs can't be characterized as "unlimited gun rights." When I ask them if that means they believe there should be a limit on the number of guns they can own or places where they shouldn't be able to take their gun...they get nasty and refuse to answer the question. It's never enough with these clowns.

I'm sorry your niece is married to such a fool.

[RBInMaine]

26. He's nuts.

[oldbanjo]

36. Ron Paul thinks they should legalize ALL drugs,

this is just as stupid.

[beevul]

31. Not sure you're aware of this, but people CAN buy and own tanks. N/T

[Major Nikon]

34. Jet fighters too

I know a guy that has his own Air Force.

http://www.rogerhardesty.com/

[beevul]

43. Yes. I think It was ST:TNG actor Michael Dorn that owns his own F-86 sabre.

I could never afford one of course, but If i could wave a magic wand, I'd have one of these:




Unarmed, of course...and then I'd have to learn how to fly and get a pilots license.

[Major Nikon]

48. I can legally fly one of those

But from a practical standpoint I'd have to learn how not to kill myself in one first, otherwise my first flight probably wouldn't end well.

[Bucky]

57. You can have my Sabrejet when you pry it out of my cold dead hands.

If the Founding Fathers were around in the 1950s, I'm sure they would've included jet fighters in the Second Amendment. When the black helicoptors come for me, it's my Constitutional right to fight for my freedom, not to just go hiding out in some cornfield hoping they'll fly by and not use their infrareds or the GPS on that goddamn chip their Gray allies put in my head--I don't care what the fuck my dad or the judge or Dr. Lowenfeld says, that shit really happened and I just fucking know the government was involved. You know what the first thing Communists do when Communism takes over a country? They start rounding up the airplanes. A well-winged citizenry is the best defense against totalitarianism, be it Red, Gray, or the so-called mental health professionals who cover up for their so-called experiments. Weather balloons my ass. Hell's bells, weather balloons don't probe you, I mean, not there anyway. If I could just get my sabrejet off the ground, those silver floating nazis'd be the first to go. God bless America!

[font face="times new roman"]Star Trek? No, try Freedom Trek! fightin' for freedom![/font]

(NB: Dorn owns and flies a sabrejet, not a prop plane. I mean, c'mon, he's a Klingon for crying out loud!)














































<== These fuckers are watching you!








.

[Major Nikon]

68. Here's one thing that's kind of interesting

I was talking to Roger Hardesty about his two F-5s (he owned two of them at one point, I'm not sure if he still does) and I noticed one of them still had the 20mm cannons intact (I don't remember if the other one did or not). I asked him if they were operational. His answer was, "well, I don't have any ammunition."

I thought about how hard it would have been for a guy who owned two F-5s to get M39 ammo and I decided to stop asking questions about it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. As a gun owner, I agree with you 100%!!

Because what you are actually saying is that gun nuts owners don't really fear anything, we are just exercising our 2nd Amendment RIGHT to keep and bear arms, and non-gun owners fear us, or guns, more than we fear "every fucking thing"! Therefore, I am in agreement that I am SICK of the COWARDICE AND IGNORANCE of the anti-gunners. It's common for people to fear that which they don't understand...

That being said, yes, this was a VERY TRAGIC occurrence, but one that *could* have been avoided by the mother of a mentally disturbed son NOT having guns in her home.

We have an average of 40 murders per day in the US, which covers ALL categories: shootings, stabbings, strangulations, beaten to death with bare hands, being run down with a vehicle, etc. The thing is, you only hear about the one or two in your area, on your local news... until a tragedy like this happens. Then it becomes national news.

This is where I have to agree with the statement by Morgan Freeman that the media is partly to blame. I am going to be paraphrasing here, but it basically boils down to the media sensationalizing these events and focusing for days on end about the perpetrator, giving them their (usually post mortem) 15 minutes of fame. It also gives other sick individuals ideas of what *they* can do to top the last one, making themselves the center of attention all across the nation, making that poor, pitiful nobody into SOMEBODY PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER, even though they are dead and can't even get any "enjoyment" of that "fame" or "infamy".

The media should totally ignore the perpetrator, not even mentioning his/her name, and focus on the tragedy of the innocent victims. If they mention the perp at all, they should only use words like "sick, twisted psychopath" or "mentally unstable lunatic" or words of that sort, so others who have these thoughts just *might* change their minds and just kill themselves instead of being remembered as that "sick, twisted maniac who shot up a school, mall, movie theater or whatever.

EVERY innocent life taken is tragic, but it is NOT just gun nuts owners who are doing the killings...

Peace within, Peace between, Peace among.....

Ghost

[Skittles]

33. we are SICK of gun nuts bastardizing the 2nd amendment

ENOUGH ALREADY

[oldbanjo]

38. Your right if the name is not listed they would not do it.

The News media creates News they should only report it.

[dorksied]

39. Apologists like you make me vomit. 300,000,000 guns in this country, and all it does is make it easy

for people to kill each other. Defending yourself? Bullshit. Defending your family? Bullshit. You keep a gun because it makes you FEEL powerful, and that is it, in the end. It is your secondary penis, that you stroke believing that it makes you more of a man. If guns made everything better, with 300,000,000 guns in this country we should all be safe as a baby in his mothers arms, but we aren't, are we?

We have more gun deaths than can ever be justified, and the instances where a gun was used to protect is vastly outweighed by the times that a gun was used in violence to take another life, for whatever justification OTHER than protection.

[Katashi_itto]

40. He's so right, after all it was lawn furniture used to commit the killings

the poor gun owners, just working so hard to make sure they have their, high capacity mags, semi-automatics, and with "Justice" Scala, maybe rocket launchers too. All that stuff so readily available, Able to be gotten access by the mentally ill. Has nothing to do with poor gun owners. IT WAS SOMEOMNE ELSES FAULT, IT WAS SUNSPOTS. IT WAS THE MEDIA. IT WAS SANTA ANNA WIND... Really it was all just lawn furniture that killed those kids.


Unless you belong to a well-regulated militia, you should not be allowed to own a military grade weapon. A well regulated militia means psych exams too. Gun owners are liable for unlimited financial responsibility for and damage caused by their guns


No guns other then six-to 10 round mags for the general populace, and single bolt action hunting rifles.

[Ghost in the Machine]

56. A "well regulated militia"? Like the US military, that gave members LSD without their consent? The

same military that subjected their own troops to radion tests during nuclear bomb teasting? The same military that methamphetamine was developed for, so their soldiers could fight longer and harder, often not even realizing they had been shot until later, when the meth started wearing off?

I've had my fill of you anti-gun nuts already. Maybe I'll take my "precious", as that seems to be the new word of the week for the anti-gun nuts, and go to my range on my own property, and get a little target practice in ... here's what I'll be using:



Now you can feel free to wet yourself, then go cry unconsolable in the corner for a while...

Have a blast today!

Ghost

[Katashi_itto]

72. Don't forget to use a some WD for lube

before you have some private "playtime" with your "weapon.


By well regulated militia I mean something under a National Guard.

Now run along and "play" with your big bad gun.

[llmart]

74. You're despicable.

Poor babies aren't even laid to rest yet and you're back on your high horse about your stupid gun. Do you know how pathetic you look to the rest of the sane ones?

Don't bother responding to me because I am now putting you on Ignore.

[99Forever]

53. This is about DEAD BABIES from your "precious."

End of debate. You are finished, you just don't know it yet.

[99Forever]

61. I'm not your fucking bud and I don't require ...

... a surrogate penis to hide behind.

And I did cry, and I'll cry again for the 20 babies that are now bullet riddled corpses because of your need to have your fetish fulfillment enabled an asshole to end their lives.

Now, snuggle up to your "precious" while you still can.

[neverforget]

73. 8583 murders in the US by guns in 2011. The next closest are knives/cutting instruments at 1694

Other is 1164 and personal weapons such as hands are 728. Add them all up and it's not even close to those murdered by guns.

The good news is that murders by all weapons are falling.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

[former-republican]

2. lets see what happens

It's on the President

[Pretzel_Warrior]

3. no. it's on the Congress. It's on us as outraged citizens.

I've been doing my part the last few days raising hell with my elected representatives. I hope millions more have as well.

[former-republican]

8. No it's on the President

Handing it off to congress is a cop out. It won't pass congress without a deal.
He either leads or he doesn't .

It's all about deals in Washington.

[jeff47]

10. We can replace Congress.

And have many times in the past when the old guard refused to keep up with the times.

What makes you think this will be done in a week? It took us decades of insanity to reach this point. We won't be undoing that in a month.

[former-republican]

13. Because I don't think the President wants to wait or the public two years on a maybe

It's just a hunch I have "nothing more"

[jeff47]

15. So...skipped over everything after the 2nd sentence? (nt)

[former-republican]

20. I didn't intentionally skip over it

I think it can be written and voted on in a week with the dreaded fiscal cliff.
They banned the new manufacture of machine guns with a voice vote at the last minute in 1986.

William Hughes introduced an amendment known today as the Hughes Amendment that essentially banned the possession of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment (May 19, 1986). This amendment DID NOT PASS out of committee. A voice vote was called which Charlie Rangel called for the ayes (to pass)

[jeff47]

67. Because we're talking about a lot of fixes, not a single ban.

Effective gun control will not be passed in a single bill.

[oldbanjo]

42. You replaced them in 2010, now look at how bad this Country is,

the people that have been put in Congress with the help of the Tea Party are destroying this Country. The Country over reacted and that hurt this Country, they want to do it again, Let the Democrats loose in 2016 and you will need all the guns you can get.

[freshwest]

24. "It'd be a lot easier if I was a dictator," GWB said. Was he? Do you want one?

Of course it's the Congress. Obama has been telling people for over a month to call their representatives to make the budget go the way he's pushing it, taxes on the rich, no cuts to the social safety net. He's trying to influence people on this issue now.

It was, and will always be, up to us and just voting a man in office doesn't relieve us of our responsibilty to change the states and the people in office. He's leading, just as he is supposed to do.

If Obama isn't not good enough to you, tell us which Republican can do a better job.

[ellisonz]

6. Whom the Republican Party is plotting as we type to attack/sabotage...

[former-republican]

9. There's a lot of stuff going on behind closed doors.

Sometimes when you want something you have to give something .

That's how it works when you don't control both houses.

How important is it to him " and what he gives up in the deal"
Will it outrage members here ?

maybe... maybe not...

let see what happens

[ellisonz]

11. The GOP/NRA cabal wants no deal...

...they don't want a compromise. They want nothing done at all. We aren't giving up anything because they won't even negotiate. That's how it's going to be. We're taking this issue to 2014.

[former-republican]

12. The hell with what the NRA wants

There are far more powerful lobbies in the GOP that want things left the same.

Don't be surprised to see a deal worked out the last minute with a AWB rider attached.
But also don't be surprised if the rich still keep most of their money.

[ellisonz]

14. You're not a betting man are you?

Don't be surprised to see a deal worked out the last minute with a AWB rider attached.

[former-republican]

16. No sir I am not

If we don't retake congress in 2014 then it's over on any kind of new gun control.
Is the President a betting man? He better be if that's his plan, cause it's a gamble.

Is the President willing to gamble this or does he wants his legacy to have passed the most comprehensive gun control measure ever passed in the country?

I don't know

[Skittles]

7. FUCK NO IT ISN'T

it's on the THINKING PEOPLE OF AMERICA

[oldbanjo]

44. There are very few thinking people in Amercia,

47% of this Country voted against their own interests.

[Skittles]

45. I agree

which makes it more important than ever to take America back - we have been held hostage by these rightwing wackjob cowards for FAR TOO LONG

[geckosfeet]

52. Ultimately it's on the court's to rule on the constitutionality of any gun related laws.

The president can propose and draft, congress can pass, but if it's not constitutional it will be unenforceable.

[Azathoth]

5. Triumphalism over the massacre of 20 little children isn't the way to go n/t

[Skittles]

17. that is what gun nuts need to know

[Skittles]

19. aw their widdle feelings getting hurt again

Michael Moore says it best:

The NRA, for the first time ever, has gone silent. They've taken their Facebook page down. They know they can't show up in Newtown next week and stick it to the people there, like they usually do after one of these mass killings. Let's face it, the gun lobby tonight is on the ropes. Now is the time to act. We can't let this sad moment pass without a true response and a president willing to be a strong leader.

[pacalo]

22. This isn't a CONTEST & this isn't to be thought of as an attempt to get a POLITICAL WIN.

This is a battle of common-sense values & concern that this country will do what's right versus the Rambo mentality who value their toys more than they value innocent victims. This shouldn't be debatable.

[BainsBane]

21. Well said

It really is about their intransigence. They are so used to being protected by the NRA and corporate interests, they feel certain that our rights are meaningless. This tragedy is a bridge too far. The more they resist cooperating in sensible efforts, the more radical I become. And I'm certain I'm not alone in that. There are creatures on this site who refuse to even consider limiting magazine sizes. They imagine their freedom requires having weapons that enable mass murder. It does not. The constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, not to stockpile weapons of Mass destruction. Moreover, the constitution can be changed. The more they stonewall, the more determined I become to enact far more dramatic reform. The choice is now theirs. They can cooperate in coming up with measures to prevent the horrifying level of gun violence, or they can make themselves enemies of the people. This is a battle I will not back down from.

[Saboburns]

27. Hmmmmmm

I worry much more about someone who labels poster's as 'creatures', and brags about becoming much more radical than I do about someone who owns a gun.

I'm not meaning to be snarky, hyperbolic, or rude.

But I think you ought to worry that your becoming the very thing you seek to change.

[BainsBane]

28. A mass murderer

Not likely. I don't own guns.

Since I don't know you, I couldn't possibly compare my level of concern on the issue to yours. My point was that the refusal of gun owners to consider any compromise will only create more opposition to their cause.

I have trouble understanding how anyone can privilege their hobby above the lives of children. There are Many terms I could use to describe them, all worse than creatures.

This isn't about some zen inner peace. It Is about protecting our nation's children. If the gun lobby wants to make it a war, I will fight it. If they want to cooperate, I'll work with them. The choice is theirs. But make no mistake about it: we will no longer sit back and allow our children to be slaughtered. Those days are over.

[Ghost in the Machine]

30. "A mass murderer. Not likely. I don't own guns." Neither did the lady who drowned her 5 kids in the

bathtub. Nor did the guys who killed 3000 Americans on 9/11.... How many civilizations were conquered/wiped out with bows & arrows, spears and swords??

[truebluegreen]

35. I see what you did there...

The topic is guns and gun laws.

[Skittles]

41. that one is almost entertaining

[Ghost in the Machine]

62. You did?? Oh boy!! It's magic!

Actually this SUB-THREAD was about a guy saying he couldn't be a mass murderer because he didn't own any guns. Please try to keep up and follow along with the conversation, or remove yourself from it so you don't make yourself look bad.

Actually, what I did was show that even though mass genocide happened with Bows & arrows and swords, they are still legal to buy today. They have laws though... you're still not allowed to kill anyone with them. You can also still buy bathtubs, and it's still against the law to forcefully drown someone in them.

[BainsBane]

50. Give it up

It's over. No one buys your crap any more. Republicans are coming out for gun control. Your lies are finished. Your days of terrorizing this country with guns are over.

[Ghost in the Machine]

54. You're a real piece of...

.. something... I haven't quite figured out the word for it yet. This might take some time. Are you some sort of streetcorner preacher or something??

Your lies are finished. Your days of terrorizing this country with guns are over.

#1 - Please point out, exactly, where I lied, or retract your statement and apologize...

#2 - Please point out, exactly, what day, or days, I personally "terrorized this country with a gun" or admit that YOU are the one telling lies, then retract your statement and apologize...

#3 - Be thankful you don't own any guns, then find your phone book, look for the nearest Mental Health facility near you... and make an appointment ASAP! You have clearly flown over the cuckoo's nest..

Thanks in advance,

Ghost

[Zoeisright]

64. Fuck off.

I hope you have an unsuccessful day playing with your penis substitute.

[The Traveler]

32. Then I must retire from the Democratic Party and this site

despite my support (in terms of dollars and man hours) for women's rights, LGBT rights, worker's rights, environmental protection, etc.

Clearly, my support for the Second Amendment disqualifies me.

I will continue to support those purposes, but I will not surrender my right to self defence because of your outrage or your fear (thought I do understand ya). I also agree that the current state of regulation of weapons manufacture and ownership is unacceptably lax.

Since you guys don't want guys like me, and my words and thoughts have no value to you, I'll go some where else.

Trav

[Skidmore]

37. That's really mature.

I swear. If you understand people's concerns about this issue, why not contribute to solutions rather than taking your ball and going home. The fear and outrage that people feel are based in the very real fact that this nation is awash in guns and gun violence.

[oldbanjo]

47. The main problem is mental illness in this Country,

Sensible regulations on guns would make sense, a mother who had a mental ill kid takes him shooting, what's wrong with that, get real, the mother was the problem. I know some one that is well educated that has a son that lives with her, the son has never held a job, gets anything that he wants and has never done anything wrong. This boy is a time bomb waiting to go off and he's in his 40's.

[Skidmore]

49. The availability of guns is also a problem.

We have had so many other time bombs explode, in public settings and in the privacy of homes. Mental illness was part of the mix for this particular incident but it is not always the issue. There are too many guns in this nation. Period. And there is a culture that insists that there be unfettered access to weaponry of all sort. That people have a need to go around packing what ever caliber of weapon they want so they can feel "safe." I don't feel safe around people who think like this. A civilized people does not behave in this manner. Weapons are used in the place of words and cooperation. They are an easy ugly fix for those among who cannot or will not use the strength of their ideas or the power of their words to engage in society.

[oldbanjo]

46. I support you on this.

[_ed_]

59. "I'm taking my gun and going home"

Good riddance, then. If your gun is more important than "women's rights, LGBT rights, worker's rights, environmental protection, etc." then you sound like you'd be most comfortable with the teabaggers.

[TheKentuckian]

66. The poster stated no such thing and further you know they didn't

Though I'm not sure why they feel they must resign from anything, I feel no such compulsion.
I'm not going to bellowed away by a bunch of Reaganite, anti-labor, pro-war, anti-environment, free trade, supporting, drone endorsing statists polishing up their street bonofides on as always funneling power from the many to the few.

The poster should stand for what they believe regardless of where the wind is or who likes it.

Why care if you pass the litmus test of someone that cannot pass yours?
Fuck em. Some of them are already trying to use this a fodder for some "deal", some way to turn crisis into a way to melt opposition to ripping off the people while the emotion is high and the desperation of grief is in the air.

Never let a tragedy go to waste and never stop triangulating.

[Zoeisright]

63. Buh-bye.

You won't be missed.

[Downtown Hound]

70. Feel free to let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

You're right we don't want you. We're tired of your kind and the shit we keep going through thanks to you cowards.

Take a hike, gun dork.

[bakpakr]

51. Only thing I have to say to the gun crowd

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!!!

[Aristus]

69. "But semi-auto firing and large capacity magazines are 'cosmetic features' of firearms" in 3...2...1

[snooper2]

71. Shootings don’t tend to substantially affect views on gun control.

If people would just read my threads maybe they would learn something...

sigh sigh sigh...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021989800




12. Shootings don’t tend to substantially affect views on gun control.