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Mutiny In Heaven

(550 posts)
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:16 AM Dec 2012

It is dangerous to conflate entertainment (movies, games) with guns / poor health care

I have seen this floated with increasing regularity over the last few days, and it is worrying. As though people need to pat themselves on the back, tuck themselves in at night safe in the knowledge that "we need to do something, but it's not just America and her guns..." in order to get to sleep. I think these folks mean well, but I firmly believe that such thinking is dangerous.

It's irresponsible, it's foolhardy. Other countries - Canada, for instance - do not host these shootings with great regularity. There's not 17 per year in Europe, Japanese youths are not bursting into schools or movie theatres and removing people's heads from their shoulders.

Yet in so many of these places the same movies boost the box office, the same games sell in their millions.

In England and Wales (population 56.1m), the barrel of a gun was the last thing 388 people saw in 2010/11. Add Scotland to the mix (population 5.3m) and the figure inches up to 390. 390 deaths out of 61.4 million people. If we multiply both population and firearm fatalities by 5.075, so we get close to the US population of 311.6m and we have 1979 deaths over the same period.

The United States of America saw 8583 gun related murders over the same period.

Same games, same movies, same music.

Different health care, different gun laws.

If I had to think of another area in which we differ, I might raise religion. At least the ferocity of said faith. The all-consuming, politically motivated way in which it has been engineered to drive Americans of certain stripes to almost feral extremes. It is something that has become accepted, expected. My intention is not to denigrate faith because despite my lack of belief, I know that it is something that is used by many as a means to do good, to help the fellow man, woman and child. Yet by many its dogma is used for something much darker and heinous.

That isn't to say "oh, all of these shooters are religious" because they're not, but the extreme application of faith by so many in the United States creates a divide, another way in which people can become alienated.

There is also a paranoia within too many people that transcends reason and hovers dangerously close to the switch between 'Sane' and 'Otherwise'.

Do you think that common threads between violent fundamentalists through the ages and across are Call of Duty and the Dark Knight?

I am not saying that violent media should not be kept out of the hands of certain people; it clearly should, and there are plenty of things that I will not allow my children to see or play until I can be certain they are able to do so without negative connotations for their mental well-being. I know that not everyone is as responsible, so stricter censorship for those 'below age' would not be a bad thing.

As it stands, a five year old child could go and see an R rated film as long as they're accompanied by an adult; I think that's a faintly ludicrous situation. I don't blame everyone who has ever taken their kid along, but I don't think changing it would hurt.

There is no easy answer, but a satisfactory resolution will, in all likelihood, probably have things that gnaw at many of us. However, let's address the real issues, those that are in many ways uniquely American before taking a scalpel to the things we share with others.

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It is dangerous to conflate entertainment (movies, games) with guns / poor health care (Original Post) Mutiny In Heaven Dec 2012 OP
well, we don't live in a vacuum cali Dec 2012 #1
Thank you. I love violent TV, movies, and video games... Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #2
I'm sure that's true of most people cali Dec 2012 #7
I am first and foremost anti-gun, but Laurian Dec 2012 #3
Same. It is one way the NRA will try and derail the debate... Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #4
The over-exposure to kwolf68 Dec 2012 #5
They want to talk about entertainment to avoid the real issues of institutional violence Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #6
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
1. well, we don't live in a vacuum
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:22 AM
Dec 2012

I don't want to ban violent video games, but I think it's foolish to think that they may be a contributing factor to some violence. People focusing solely on guns or the lack of care for the seriously mentally ill or ignoring are larger culture of violence and the replete history of such in our country.

 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
2. Thank you. I love violent TV, movies, and video games...
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:22 AM
Dec 2012

And I've never even punched a person or touched a real gun.

Never had the desire.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
7. I'm sure that's true of most people
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:05 AM
Dec 2012

who indulge in those pastimes, but it may be an exacerbating factor in some people- particularly children who spend a lot of time immersed in violent video games. Not saying it's a singular factor but it could be a contributing one.

Laurian

(2,593 posts)
3. I am first and foremost anti-gun, but
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:22 AM
Dec 2012

I do not object to efforts to reduce every violent influence in our culture. My primary objective, however, remains gun control and I don't want the issue of violent games/movies to become the primary focus of reform.

 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
4. Same. It is one way the NRA will try and derail the debate...
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:25 AM
Dec 2012

Our entertainment reflects reality.

It's violent because we're violent, not vice versa.

kwolf68

(7,365 posts)
5. The over-exposure to
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:30 AM
Dec 2012

violence desensitizes people to that violence. Sure, most of us can watch 1 million shows showing torture and murder or play a bunch of video games of blowing people's heads off and be just fine, but what about that person who is the anomaly, who use video games to essentially dis-engage from society and to dis-engage from empathy. Toss in easy access to guns to this culture of violence glorification and you have a recipe for disaster. We reap what we sow. You want peace? This isn't just movies and video games or easy access to guns. It's just the way America-the bully- conducts itself, in regards to how we treat each other and those we choose to wage war against overseas. Become peaceful. Until we are REALLY a peaceful nation, then we shouldn't be remiss when part of it becomes war-like and violent.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
6. They want to talk about entertainment to avoid the real issues of institutional violence
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:45 AM
Dec 2012

Torture programs, wars of choice, constant death of children in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Those who want to blame the theater do so to protect their interest in the 'theater of war'.
The OP makes a strong point about religion as well. No way will I stand and watch them burn Beatles records in the name of faith again, not while that faith is telling people the world is ending, it is doomed and they are the agents of judgement. No video game or film says 'God picked you, but your neighbors are condemned'. Religion does that. Let's not forget the 9-11 mass murders, again religion was the lexicon of the murderers.
When they come drooling to protect war and religious hatred by blaming arts for society's woes, always hold them to exacting and detailed specificity. Just yesterday on DU, I read one of the reactionary art haters screeds and it was chock full of utter and total lies. Lies about the films, slanders of those who go see them. They claim that 'films about murder dominate the box office' but that is false, go look up the top box office films. Comedy, cartoons, Potter, that sort of thing. And yet the war protecting art haters will tell you that the people are demanding one mass murder film after another. Yesterday's screed involved a declaration that murder films make far more money than any other sort of film when last year there was one murder oriented film in the top 50 at number 27 or 28. In the 50's Hitchcock films did great box office. Films about crime and murder are not new, nor are they more popular now, nor are they more frequently made now than in the past. Silent film M was one of the first. 1920's.
Of course, Shakespeare and other classics also filled with all that fills real life, from love and laughter to death and murder.
So don't buy into the bullshit these hyper conservative rhetoric machines serve up. They make things up, they believe things they heard or read in some right wing rag.
Same crowd has put artists in jail and burned books and banned films for the entire history of the world. And yet the world spins on.

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