Fuck the 2nd Amendment!!!

[rhiannon55]

I am so fucking tired of gun worshipers using the fucking 2nd Amendment to justify their 'right' to stockpile lethal weapons that are killing our children. Every other country (Australia, for instance) that has implemented serious gun control legislation has the advantage of not having, afaik, anything like the fucking 2nd Amendment to contend with.

I'm sorry, but our slave owning founders did not walk on water and the words they wrote down were not holy writ. The 2nd Amendment probably was needed 200 years ago, but it is NOT NEEDED NOW.
The gun lobby has used it to convince people that they need as many guns as they can get to hold off the coming (non-existent) invasion of the federal government. The whole thing is obscene and ridiculous and I am sick of it.

FUCK the 2nd Amendment!!!! There is nothing holy or good about it. It has become a right wing talking point that keeps anything sane about guns from happening.

[Surya Gayatri]

1. Here's what I had to say about the 2nd in another thread entitled...

"The Aussies Had a Gun Massacre Problem. THEY FIXED IT! WHY CAN'T WE?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008224

"Because we've got the damn 2nd Amendment--that anachronistic relic from another age, when guns were tools for survival on the newly opening frontier.

There is no longer any reason to retain this archaic throwback to another age.

The 2nd has been egregiously misinterpreted and misapplied, allowing mad people to murder with impunity by using modern weapons designed for mass destruction...

Any other sane country would have struck it down long ago. But, a significant and influential share of the US population are deranged extremists who force the rest of the nation to deal with their obsessions."

[99Forever]

4. I see what ya did there.

Aren't you so sly? And such a wit!

Well maybe, half of one.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

3. I think this person feels the same way.

[clffrdjk]

5. Well

There is a process to repeal amendments best get to it.

[NickB79]

6. You can say fuck it all you want; it's still the law of the land

And the Supreme Court has set precedent that it's an individual right designed to allow US citizens the right to use firearms in self-defense (see the Heller case of 2008).

So, the only way anything similar to what we've seen in nations like Australia happening here will have to start with a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. That will require a 2/3 state majority to achieve.

I'd suggest if you're truly serious about making changes, print up some papers, get some signatures, and get to work, because that's going to be a long, tough road to travel.

[JoePhilly]

7. You don't have to repeal it. The SC could decided what the word "arms" means.

The Supreme Court could certainly decide that the word "arms" means every weapon that has ever, or will ever, exist.

Or, they could decide that the word "arms" is more limited than that. Perhaps based on the weapon's kill potential, for example.

By doing so, the weapons one had a "right" to own, would be reduced so as to not include every weapon that has ever or will ever exist.

In addition, you could change the laws so that ownership of additional weapons was also possible, but such ownership would be more highly regulated. If you met the legal criteria, you can own a rocket launcher if you want.

2nd Amendment remains.

[NickB79]

9. The SC has already made those rulings

They differentiated between firearms and other military-grade weapons, such as explosive ordnance, back in the 1939 Miller case. That ship has sailed, so to speak.

The recent Heller case was already used to force cities like Washington DC and Chicago to drop their bans on conceal-carry of handguns. If that precedent can be used to remove those kinds of regulations, there's not much left you can regulate beyond that with regard to stringent gun control.

Either we wait until the Supreme Court swings left again, and try then to get them to overturn past rulings, or we repeal the 2nd Amendment. Those are about your only two options left at this point.

[JoePhilly]

10. I think the path through the SC is the more likely path.

Too many rural states to get a Constitutional Amendment change.

The Miller case was about 70 years ago, there are new weapons, and new types of ammo.

I do agree that we'll probably need another Dem President in 2016 to get there. Its not likely that Obama will get enough chances.

[NickB79]

12. But there are no significant new weapons or types of ammo

If anything, things have become MORE restrictive today. Up until 1934, you could buy a new Thompson submachine gun with 50-rd magazine, or a sawed-off shotgun, through the mail with no background checks, no registration, no waiting period! The AR-15's we have today pale in comparison to a full-auto Tommy gun. The ammo hasn't changed either; AR-15's use either full-metal jacket ammo or hollowpoints, both of which have been around for over a century.

I'm not saying a new Supreme Court packed with newly appointed justices COULDN'T overturn the Miller case, but with Heller now in effect, which built off of Miller, it becomes much more difficult.

[Hugabear]

17. Supreme Court rulings can always be re-visited.

If not, why would we be worried about some future right-wing SCOTUS overturning Roe-v-Wade?

The SCOTUS could certainly re-interpret the Constitution differently, especially something like the 2nd Amendment where the wording is so vague.

[MrDiaz]

8. unless

there is a new constitution implemented, our constitution is the law of the land...deal with it.

[Surya Gayatri]

11. What a hackneyed, platitudinous reply. Constitutional clauses have

been struck down or nullified by amendment since the nation's very beginnings.

It is well past time (about 120 years) for this anachronistic amendment to be scrapped--either nullified through passage of a new amendment or neutralized though SC reinterpretation.

For far too long, the 2nd has been egregiously misinterpreted and misapplied, allowing mad people to murder with impunity by using modern weapons designed for mass destruction.

What is this inanity about a "new constitution"?

Edit: typo

[NickB79]

13. Then you need to get started now, lots of work ahead for you

Like I said in post #6, you'll need 2/3 state majority to repeal the 2nd Amendment. You'll also have to get new justices on the Supreme Court, ones willing to overturn 75 years of precedent.

[Surya Gayatri]

14. I believe you may be surprised at the ground swell of

grass-roots revulsion and growing clamor for 2nd Amendment revision which is about to engulf all of you euphemistically-termed "gun enthusiasts".

This latest outrage may just prove to be the drop that makes the glass overflow--to paraphrase an apt French expression.

We of the sane majority will organize and work to that end, fear not.

[MrDiaz]

15. i think you would

be surprised at the lack of a "ground swell of grass roots revulsion and frowing clamor for 2nd Amendment revision".

[AndyA]

28. You haven't been paying attention.

It's already started, and it will only grow at this point.

[MrDiaz]

30. lol ok

what exactly is the end goal?

[AndyA]

31. Sanity.

[MrDiaz]

32. no seriously

what is the end goal? No more guns? So difficult to get guns that nobody buys them? What exactly is the end goal? Do you have any actual idea or plan or vision or is "sanity" the only answer you have?

[LAGC]

24. Actually, isn't it a 3/4 states majority for Constitutional amendments?

An even higher hurdle to jump over...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Its better than the OP

[letemrot]

18. I am going to follow you (in a non stalking way)

You are simply rocking! THanks.

[Surya Gayatri]

21. Seriesly? A "new constitution"??? This is hugh!1!11

[Bake]

19. Want an amendment repealing BOR#2? Good luck with that.

You're dreaming if you think you'll get that ratified.

Hell, a lot of DEMOCRATS (including me) will vote against that.

Bake

[Surya Gayatri]

20. It will not be completely repealed, but rather severely revised.

[Bake]

22. No. It won't.

You're dreaming. Either that, or you never want Dems to win another election in this country.

Bake

[Surya Gayatri]

23. Just as other social revolutions have taken root and grown in the

nation's psyche (abolitionism, universal sufferage, civil rights, same-sex marriage, etc.) this too will come, not through aimless day-dreaming, but through hopeful activism.

Hearts, minds, and behaviors will be changed, not over weeks and months, but over years and decades.

And let go of that "Dems-never-elected-again" boogeyman. That's what the reactionaries and status-quo believers said when LBJ pushed through the '64 Civil Rights Act.

[Bake]

25. And they were damn near right about LBJ

Although the Civil Rights Act was, of course, the right thing to do. Even though it did cost the Democrats the South, probably forever.

But if you seriously want to abolish/amend the 2nd Amendment, go for it. I predict you will lose.

Bake

[rivegauche]

26. I could not agree more.

I am so, so goddamned sick and tired of these selfish fucks and their "rights". They can shove it, their rights to kill and maim are fucking over. I am a die-hard liberal, always have been, but enough is fucking enough. We're going to keep having funerals for 6-year-olds until everyone is fucking dead of gunshots if this nightmare doesn't stop.

[AlexSatan]

27. And the First! And the Fourth!

Nobody actually NEEDS then, after all.

[rhiannon55]

33. That's ridiculous

The First and the Fourth Amendments don't get twisted into a right wing ideology that causes huge numbers of people to die every year.

[NickB79]

35. Exhibit #1: AM Hate Radio

You really don't think that allowing Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity to spew their filth on the radio and their websites 24/7 doesn't contribute to some of the deaths we see every year? That they don't encourage people to stockpile guns and ammo, or to hate anyone who's different in culture, race, or political leaning than the approved GOP platform?

[rhiannon55]

36. Okay, you've got me there.

You're absolutely right, the First Amendment is used to spew right wing filth, just like the Second Amendment is used to stockpile guns. And the first action contributes greatly to the second.

My head hurts.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

29. YEAH !!!!!!

Fuck all of those fucking amendments !!!! Fuck the whole Constitution !!!!!!!!

No one gets rights if I don't like it !!!!!!!

USA USA USA !!!!!!!!

[rhiannon55]

34. As someone here has said

That's why they're called "amendments"; they changed the constitution and they can be changed. And thousands of innocent people are not slaughtered every year because of other amendments.

And you can put your USA USA USA !!!!!!!!! where the sun don't shine.