It is theoretically possible for an armed teacher to kill a shooter in a school

[Tom Rinaldo]

It is also theoretically possible for a gun belonging to a teacher to fall into the hands of a student resulting in the death of other students and/or teachers, by accident or on purpose. Which is a more likely scenario?

Even in our gun crazed culture, shooters rarely enter schools. Allowing teachers and principals to have weapons inside schools would bring guns on site daily. Unlike the police or other security personel, teachers and administrators have other jobs that call for their constant attention, but there are plenty of instances in which professional security officials end up shot by their own guns also. Why would guns be safer wth teachers?

In hindsight one can always say that there might have been a lapse in judgent or carelessness that contributed to guns being taken from their lawful owners and used in crimes, but lapses in judgement and momentary carelessness can always be counted on to happen. We all know that. Even the NRA knows that.

[SoonerPride]

1. It is also theoretically possible to make all school kids wear Kevlar vests.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. And mandatory karate lessons, that too.

Except unlike Keylar vests (but more like guns) no one could guarentee that karate would only be used for defensive puroposes. Maybe you are on to something. That may be the NRA's new fall back position.

[Recursion]

2. It happened in 1997. Why does everybody forget Pearl, MS?

An armed teacher saved a lot of lives, including the shooter's. I don't know which is more likely because very few states allow teachers to have guns at school (I think even at Pearl the teacher was breaking the law).

[unblock]

3. right. at best we would trade away a few mass murders for countless smaller incidents.

overall, our schhols would be far less safe, though the tragedies would be commonplace isolated incidents.

so statistically, kids would be less safe, but the media wouldn't have sensational big body count drama to cover, so we'd all "feel" safer.

wonderful.

[Recursion]

4. Basically

Mass shootings are so rare that they make bad policy recipes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. I thought of that too

All of those small local tragedies don't spark national debates. Daddys gun being brought into school by a student with deadly condequences, we've seen those stories and they quickly fade. At the high school level some schools use metal detectors now, but if the gun lobby had its way guns would legally be in the classrooms. What is the statistic about the odds of being shot by your own gun rather than by one carried by an assailant?

[Cattledog]

6. Not true, here's the facts about Pearl MS

The Pearl HS Assist. Princ. Found the shooter...a student sitting in a car in the school parking lot. He had already shot up the school and left. The AP's gun played no real role in ending the carnage.

[HockeyMom]

8. Too many practical problems

besides the dangerous ones. The principal in the shooting wasn't in her office. Run back to her office to get her gun? At the beginning and end of school the office is usually filled with kids, parents, teachers. What are they supposed to do? Just DUCK?

Again, would teachers keep a gun locked in their desk? They don't sit at their desks all day. What if they are at the blackboard and a shooter comes into the classroom. RUN across the room to the locked desk? Or maybe if another teacher hears the shots, she would leave HER class and go running after the shooter?

No, they would have to carry it on their PERSON at all times. What about kids walking all alone to the bathroom, to office, etc, down the hallways? Post "somebody" packing in the hallways? Lunchtime when the teachers are not there? Lunch ladies and Aides should be armed also? Same for the Playground and Recess.

None of this addresses the safety issue for the kids, especially if the school houses "at risk" kids, who might try to steal those teachers guns.

Not only make this a very dangerous environment, it is very impractical also.

I've worked in public schools in two different states for about 15 years. The above are the patterns of the elementary school I have worked in. Once you get to the HS level, the comings and goings of students all ALONE is even greater.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. Yes, thanks for spelling it out.

On top of everything you wrote, it would make any teacher or principal suspected of carrying a weapon a constant target for anyone who wants it. Even if a gun was locked up, the key ring would become a target. Suddenly a knife could be leveraged to access a gun.

[jehop61]

10. My last day

as a substitute teacher was when an 8th grader almost cold cocked me. He was several inches taller than me. It would have been very easy for him to disarm me, if I was carrying a gun. Stupid idea.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Had anyone known you were carrying (had you been of course)

one might have cold cocked you for that reason.The type of unstable youth who carry out shootings are willing to take on that risk.

[HockeyMom]

18. 5th Grade "Emotionally Disturbed" boys

who were housed in a neighborhood school. These kids were violent and had records. One boy (gifted) tried to stab his Grandma with a kitchen knife when he was 10. He was placed in a juvenile detention center for a year, then transferred to this regular school. Very, very, smart, and sweet, BUT. Personally, I did not trust that kid at all. I thought it was a front he was putting on.

We locked up all the sharp scissors, staple removers, pencils and pencils, and just about anything that could be used as a weapon in this class. These boys wrote their lessons with CRAYONS.

One day the other TA forgot to put away her PEN. This "sweet talking" boy found her pen and stabbed her with it. Totally out of the blue.

GUNS in this kind of a class? I don't think so.

[kestrel91316]

12. It's also theoretically possible for a teacher with a gun to reach their limit of tolerance

of misbehaving students and snap. They could wipe out an entire classroom in nothing flat.

So what we need to do in addition to arming teachers is arm all the students, right down to kindergarten. Because otherwise no one will be safe.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Air tight logic

Worthy of the NRA. And you are right about the potential for any worker to go ballistic at their workplace, do we really want to encourage people to bring guns to work? More likely a teacher would snap at a fellow worker or supervisor than at students, but who knows? And the death of innocents is tragic no matter what the age, and students could be killed by stray bullets even if they weren't the intended target.

[kestrel91316]

14. Did you miss my rather obvious SARCASM??

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. Don't think so, did you miss my nod and wink?

Of course I know that you weren't advocating arming all children. My sarcasm was calling iut logic worthy of the NRA. The part about workplace violence though was a serious tangent off of a sarcasetic point. I could have made it clearer that it would be a very far out scenario for a teacher to snap against his or her students, but there are many tragic shootings of colleagues at workplaces. If society encourages workers to bring guns to work, I think it is safe to predict there will ultimately be more.

[kestrel91316]

17. My bad, lol!

[Springslips]

15. Training.

I think we watch too many movies. We get to thinking that anyone can have a gun and just hit anything, or have presence of mind to act when sudden gun fire happens.

The truth is that is crazy talk. Our military goes through basic training; cops go to academy because of this reality. And that is if they meet certain standards of mental and body health. If it was easy as just giving a person a gun and he is good to go, he could sign up for the army one day and would be in battle the next. If we arm teachers we would have to screen them, train them, and test them on proficiency, which would cost all kinds of time and money. That's not to mention we would have to bar those who may have first class teaching skills but might not be able to shoot a gun for whatever reason.

There are other issues here than our rambocentric belief that we can just pass out guns and it would solve everything.