General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Rape Crew: Trent Mays, Malik Richmond, Michael Colin Nodianos, Charlie Keenan, Cody Saltzman
Repeat their names as often as you can. These hideous, proud gang-rapists deserve to be exposed that much more for the efforts of their coaches and local officials to protect them.
For those who are unaware: http://localleaks.blogs.ru/2013/01/01/steubenvillefiles/
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/01/inside-anonymous-hacking-file-steubenville-rape-crew/60502/
antigone382
(3,682 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)The players, the coaches, anyone who is connected with this horrific incident - the law will do what the law will do, but if Anonymous is of any use at all, I'd like to see them use their alleged powers to financially ruin these subhuman animals. I want this to follow them forever - on any job applications, student loans, college applications, credit checks, mortgages, apartment leases, car loans, anything involving the exchange of currency. Make it impossible for them to earn a livelihood, ever.
riqster
(13,986 posts)That would send a message, right enough.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)Unfortunately the complicity of the local law enforcement apparatus, and the general inadequacy of our legal system in dealing with crimes against women, make me less than confident that this will actually transpire. But I certainly hope it does.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)antigone382
(3,682 posts)antigone382
(3,682 posts)That isn't something I'm proud of, and it certainly isn't something I would act on, but it is where I am right now.
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)Including the parents of these trash, the HS football coach, the DA, the Sheriff
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)antigone382
(3,682 posts)I am not proud of the things I would like these subhuman pieces of garbage to experience, but at this point it is what I want. I hope that more balanced and less rash minds than my own may handle their punishment.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I wonder if some enterprising federal prosecutor can bring charges.
Care Acutely
(1,370 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)antigone382
(3,682 posts)a kennedy
(29,690 posts)makes my heart hurt for her, and my blood boil for them.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)Watching the video of the one guy sniggering about it all is just hideous.
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,501 posts)antigone382
(3,682 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....some people need to go to jail, to include the so-called "Rape Crew", the sheriff, the prosecuting attorney, and anyone else who may be involved in these horrible crimes to include attempting to cover them up.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)Even more disgusting that the only way it got the attention it deserved was through extra-legal channels.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)I don't think they were just drunk. I think they were high too. What they mean by dead is her reputation is dead. Meaning no one will ever date her or sleep with her again. This is just boys being stupid because they are too young to understand the seriousness of the situation. Maybe instead of making internet threats and forcing them to say sorry, Anonymous should have just emailed this video to their parents. Even if they did say they were sorry, they don't mean it. You can't shame a teenage boy into feeling remorse. All they see is their friends getting in trouble because of a girl.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)Or girl? Or the adults they become?
Because, they've been excused their actions throughout most of their lives.
Emailing this to their parents would be pointless, since its the parents who allowed their kids to grow into these monsters.
The town (and presumably the parents) already knew much of this information. It would have taken a conscious effort of will to remain ignorant of at least the basic details. Too many people, made the distinction between what they KNEW, and what they'd heard.
Anonymous is just bringing the details out into the open for the whole world to see.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)participated in something like this. would change how i see them. i was thinking about these parents. and how they feel about their boys now.... how they do it.
you make a good point.
i cannot even fathom this. it is really beyond me. i was reading the anonymous some more. very long. did not read it all earlier. read some more and you are right.
everyone, all the adults, where creating a world for them with NO moral compass.
interesting. thanks.
ceile
(8,692 posts)antigone382
(3,682 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Most of a community felt this was okay - not just a half dozen, a dozen, but many more. I can't see any difference except she isn't dead - and having been given a drug, she could have been.
That these guys thought this was just a thing to do - for any reason - to use their own bodies in this fashion to do this to another human being...
I can't see that any of them can ever be taught any different. Something is broken inside of them that cannot be restored. They should all be put away for life, they cannot be taught. They have found the highest use for themselves.
And yet they are walking free and getting all the good things in life - I feel much less safe with every one of these stories that come out.
Thanks for posting this thread, antigone
.
CrispyQ
(36,490 posts)"I feel much less safe with every one of these stories that come out."
A few weeks ago I was waiting for the bus. It was past 9:30 pm. I was in a well lit area, but there's still always that uneasiness when you're out alone at night. I heard a group of about 5 men approaching & I was on edge until they were clearly past. They were laughing & joking among themselves & I doubt they had any realization how much angst their presence caused. I hate that I live in a society where so many men are raised to believe that masculinity is about domination, aggression & control & getting what you want at any cost. It's such a perverted world view & causes great harm.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Are the guys in the video suspected of actually participating in the rape, or are they just being assholes about it after the fact.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)I don't believe the 2 who are accused of rape are in the video.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)it sounded like the guy who was doing the talking had in fact participated in the rape as well. He talks about sodomizing the girl, and how she didn't wake up when she was sodomized (much cruder terms were used, but I don't know how else to put it). He also comments on her vagina being dry. This makes me think he was a participant.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...were likely accessories to rape, rather than the rapists themselves, although I also understand that the investigation has been flawed to such an extent that the actual degree of shared responsibility is obfuscated. I've also read that at least one other young woman has come forward and implicated others beyond the two currently facing charges, and that there might be other victims as well.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)they have not put forth the effort to go after them.
Response to seabeyond (Reply #38)
Post removed
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...and I kinda need a shower.
http://www.heraldstaronline.com/
Yes, she was apparently taken to three parties that night (Aug 11-12). PARTIES, meaning lots of people present, most of them presumably high school students. Although quite a few cell phones were later confiscated and examined, only two pics of the victim (naked) were recovered, and none depicting the actual assaults. Three boys later testified before a probable cause hearing that they witnessed at least some of the assaults-- their testimony and the two pics on Trent Mays' phone were instrumental in bringing charges against Mays and Richmond, but it's clear from the stories that at least one of the boys who testified was likely an accessory to sexual assault because he transported the victim and Mays, witnessed Mays raping her in the back of the car, and did nothing except to drive them to the next party.
But the part that disgusts me the most is that this was a very public series of assaults. It was performed to intentionally humiliate the victim-- evidently she had rebuffed Cody Saltsman previously. It was revenge rape, and public humiliation was part of the assault. Although the Ohio State Police examined 15 cell phones and two iPads, they found only the two pics on Mays' phone and claimed that none of the (presumed) deleted photos were recoverable. Nonetheless, crime blogger Alexandria Goddard later turned up some additional photos, like this one posted or texted by Saltsman:
There are at least three people other than the victim in that pic, and two recipients who's emails are listed. And nobody knows a damned thing other than the three boys who testified to witnessing the assault. Although pictures evidently flew among cell phones that night and in the following days, by the time of the investigation they'd been sanitized. And although the victim was evidently assaulted at three separate parties, NO ONE ELSE SAW ANYTHING. The police chief says he's begged witnesses to come forward, but none have other than the three boys who likely testified to avoid their own (probably tangential) culpability.
That's what disgusts me the most about this. Much of the community has closed ranks behind the rapists and abettors. A local high school football worship site refers to Anon as "terrorists" for posting the most recent video (http://www.rollredroll.com/).
Another great source for info is the #OccupySteubenville site: http://www.occupysteubenville.com/
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lawn, driveway, cars, and houses... EVERY kid knows what is going on. adn knows before she is dragged to the next party and they are there waiting. damn straight. you have a right on. so.... as far as i am concerned, for all the cowards, OUT THEM. ALL of them.
gonna check out the #occupyst link.
i heard it was an XBF that wanted revenge and he got a football player.... i heard it started at the prosecutors house, he lured her and friends there. and maybe more than one drugged.
we will see all that comes out. but, in just 24 hours, a lot has happened.
thanks mike c. value tons.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)I started trying to read this story at Jezebel and then the comments got to me. This is inhuman.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Thankfully, deleting things does not always remove all evidence, and kids are stupider than many of the more savvy predators.
CNN is reporting that in this evidence recovered from mobile phones and ipads, the victim appears to be consistently unresponsive. If that is the case, it is particularly damning. Especially if it is video evidence.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Was he charged? Which one is he?
Look at that smile on his face. It looks like this is something that they did every single day.
I cannot look at this thread anymore, but will look for posts to my questions here from anyone.
I'm sorry, it's making me physically ill.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)All of em, everyone involved who didn't step up and try to stop it.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)I don't know about the video per se. I could just been a bunch of teenaged boys being ignorant assholes. But there's a pretty good chance that at least one of them was present. Anybody who aided and abetted the crime, or aided and abetted the cover-up, needs to be held accountable. I suspect there's going to be a very large circle of defendants.
Darly314
(23 posts)He is a dangerous sack of lard, an accessory who deserves DOC time if convicted. Pick him up, toss in....STIR(.)
yardwork
(61,680 posts)Why was that post hidden?
mike_c
(36,281 posts)There's nothing problematical in that response that I can see.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)not seeing anything so tos wasnt checked.
maybe the link??? that is all i can think of. but, i had seen that link elsewhere. so clueless.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)parties to a conspiracy are equally guilty of any of the actions undertaken by any of the conspirators. In this case, there's no such thing as "accessories to rape." Just rape and rapists.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)The guy in the video in the comments actually seems to have witnessed it. Not only did he star in this video confessional, he also live tweeted the rape as it happened. I saw screen caps of the tweets earlier.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)I haven't watched the video-- there doesn't seem to be any need to confirm the awfulness and my blood pressure doesn't need anything else to boil about. But I am grateful to Anon for boosting this story to national attention. Those young men need to be in a world of hurt that goes on and on for what they've done-- and were apparently stupid enough to brag about and be proud of, and their parents, as well as the high school, it's athletic program, anyone else who has covered for them or supported their sense of fucking entitlement needs to share their suffering, too.
What the fuck is wrong with people? How can anyone in that community stand up for these asshats?
bunnies
(15,859 posts)And make em wear their "jewels" around their neck for life. Bastards. Thats about the kindest thing I can think of.
frylock
(34,825 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)BlueNoteSpecial
(141 posts)...go ALL the way, these animals sure as hell did, and with this many "good citizens" culpable, having knowledge, controlling the "damage", they should not be spared ANY grief, ffs! Out 'em all.
d_r
(6,907 posts)The community that allowed this to happen breaks my heart. The adults who enabled it make me sick. I don,'t know how you unlearn world views like that but I know it must be possible. We've got to stop this type of thinking behavior, culture.
I think the prosecuter who covered for her kid is disgusting, I noticed that several of the football players live with school board members and so on, probably high school version of illegal recruiting.
The prosecuter was school board superintendent, her son was one of gang, her house the location of one of the parties, she talked the girl and her mother out of pressing charges by saying the press wuld drag the girl throigh the mud, the recused herself after 2 weeks, I wonder how many cell phones were rounded up and deleted?
Before she went to wv to testify for the wvu player that got probation for armed robbery, he was a former player at this schoo.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hidden in a bathroom. the ultimate in a perverted creepy pathetic man. this is what the boys had for their role model.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)She can burn in hell.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Because these people have in effect gotten a pass, and the next generation will probably do it again.
SDjack
(1,448 posts)When their names are repeated, be sure to add "Steubenville, OH is the comfortable home of The Rape Crew".
SunSeeker
(51,607 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)I say chemically castrate them. (Don't ask me what that means, read it on a post here somewhere and never got an answer to it's meaning. Whatever it is, it sounds lethal.) Yeah, these kids are the lowest of the low and probably sons of the lowest of the lowest. I pray that they will all be held accountable. Including the aiders and abbetors whomever they be.
Seems FAR too good for these pathetic, sub-human wastes of space.
...thanks for pointing me to the definition. In this case, I retract my statement, and opt for a long long prison term. Yeah, chemical is just too kind. Every three months a shot? What if they run?
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)mike_c
(36,281 posts)eom
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)and where is the state police?
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Is the god worshiped above everyone, and everything else.
Omaha Steve
(99,679 posts)K&R!
northoftheborder
(7,572 posts)SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)I hope her career gets flushed down the toilet.
I'm sure she has an excuse ready to go on why she acted.....or didn't act.....the way she did. Can't wait for her heartfelt apologies to the victims she ignored and discouraged from filing charges.
progressoid
(49,992 posts)kimbutgar
(21,172 posts)Controlled and the ag is a repuke so nothing will come of this. The GOP will blame this girl for being a slut. There is no decency anymore in GOP land. Violence against women is ok because she asked for it in their opinion. Even the so called Christian right turns a blind eye to this horrendous stuff. It would be great if this went viral but it will go nowhere in Ohio because there are so many connected GOP people involved.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)but at least her body shut down so she cant get preg.
huge ass
sarcasm
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)... denial of due process for prisoners at Gitmo, or unlawful wiretaps, and every violation of our rights that the government executes. Hell, yes! We are totally against this!
But due process is for rape suspects is irrelevant? Two 16-year-old kids are being subject to this?
Yeah, rape is horrible and one of the worst of all crimes. Again, (so that the usual suspects do not accuse me of condoning rape) RAPE IS WRONG, AND ALL RAPISTS ARE CRIMINALS.
But, this lynch mob mentality is bullshit and completely hypocritical. We are no better than the knuckledraggers who automatically assume that every "camel jockey" is a terrorist when we pull this shit.
GROW UP, DU!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Target the impeders for now. If and when those kids are convicted, we can talk about them.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)or convicted or anything else.
fuck that staying quiet. what a horribly counter productive measure combatting the drugging of, dragging a girl to three parties to be raped by a number of boys only to blame her and say HER reputation is ruined.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)These kids have been convicted of nothing.
The right wingnuts are absolutely convinced that all Gitmo detainees are guilty and do not deserve a trial. Any progressive with a conscience knows better: they all deserve a fair trial. Not so in this case?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)tough one.
and that is being consistent.
if the powers that be wont do their job then the peoples voices MUST be heard.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)...so this is still in progress. If not for a few people however, it would have remained a local issue, entirely under the control of the local DA and police, who by all appearances are part of the problem.
antigone382
(3,682 posts)For one thing, these guys have a preponderance of evidence which *they produced themselves* linking them to the crime. If that were the case for all Gitmo detainees they would have already been tried. And let's not even get into the difference in protective support networks and resources between a white male football player with well connected parents (as most of the perps are), and a likely impoverished, quite possibly illiterate detainee in an unfamiliar land with no access to legal representation.
I am not calling for extra-legal measures to punish these animals. I said upthread that, while I might have my own fantasies about vigilante justice, I would not act on them; and I hope who ever does end up in charge of their punishment is more levelheaded than me. But I have no problem exposing them; they already exposed themselves.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)We have posters calling for these kids to be castrated.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)So? Do you really think having posts saying that on the internet is really going to matter much? Do you really think an anonymous poster on DU has the power to get that done because they post they would like it to happen?
If you think it goes against Community Standards, alert on it. Otherwise, see post #87.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Do you feel that there is no responsibility associated with comments made? That you can use your mouth as a sewer and not be called to task?
It does not matter if we are not the jury or the judge. To blurt out ignorance and hate is no different than the ridiculous behavior we condemn at the Free Republic and other intellectual garbage dumps.
Yes, you have the right to say the most vile, uninformed things that pop into your head, but do not expect that everyone will join the chorus and applaud your disgusting behavior.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)er BRAGGED, about their acts right?
Its on camera. In their own words.
Some of them are even legal adults.
These guys have put their actions out into the public for public commentary and judgement THEMSELVES (before it was scrubbed but not before getting captured by Anon and others).
Why are you getting your knickers in a knot FOR them when they have/had no shame themselves about it?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)not sure why anyone would twist themselves into knots of tearful rage in defense of these subhumans.
From a link above:
Now, the very fact that this core group of criminals within the student body are known by this moniker should set off alarm bells for everyone. This entire investigation has centered around a single rape victim and assault that came to light this summer. But you dont get a name like Rape Crew from a single incident of gang rape committed upon a lone victim. One thing is certain, there ARE more victims out there. One of the chief aims in exposing and bringing to justice the participants and beneficiaries of this conspiracy is to embolden, encourage and empower these other victims to come forward and seek justice.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)sewer? WHERE?
The perps have bragged of their acts and call themselves the "rape crew" and what I am questioning is your assertion we should not even TALK about them yet and you DARE call me a sewer mouth and my word disgusting?
"If and when those kids are convicted, we can talk about them." Bull. We can certainly talk about them and your attempt to shut down conversation is incredible and THAT is what I am disagreeing with.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)And I understand his/her point. If Bill O'Reilly suggested that a mob should go out castrate somebody, we'd be in high dudgeon over it. I don't know (and neither does the generic "you" what the kids in this video are guilty of, other than being obnoxious assholes. I was a teenaged boy once, and I can tell you that being an obnoxious asshole pretty much comes with the territory.
Their statements one the video certainly deserve condemnation, but frankly it doesn't sound like anybody in Steubenville, OH is going to do that -- so flame away at them here. But that being said, demands for physical violence are a little over-the-top.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)this "teenaged boy once, and I can tell you that being an obnoxious asshole pretty much comes with the territory. " does not get off with boys will be boys. if you got away with talking about girls, women in this manner, a good giggle of raping unconscious girls, then you are not ALL teenage boys. i get called on saying ALL men, ALL the time, when i am not saying it. yet when we want to excuse a behavior we say this is just how teenage boys are.
i have teenage boys. not all teenage boys talk about girls in this manner. not the teenage boys that have been taught about the societal conditionings of privilege. not the boys that have been raised to know this is not acceptable. not the boys that have a conscious. there are boys in that very tape thinking it is crap and challenging the kid. THEY are not part of your teenage boy obnoxious. and beyond the fact the kid said he raped the girl in the video, this kind of talk is NOT ok within the circle of buddies, that validate this behavior to each other, and leads to fuckin gang rape cause their peers are just being obnoxious assholes.
this is unacceptable.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Even if these guys weren't participants in the crime, they deserve public reprobation for their behavior. But can we stop with that? No castration?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)shooting to kill.
i KNOW that is horrible. i have never gone to this. but, between a FB gang rape i saw that i cannot get out of my head, the india rape and subsequent example of gang rape in that country and the answer is girls can not wear skirts or talk on cell phones to address these gang rapists, the fatwa from saudia arabia to gang rape women which appears to be false, and then this, all in a very small period.... shoot to kill.
maybe in time, in a little bit, when it settles, and the adults that tried to make all this go away are penalized, i will become my more pacifist, rational self.
maybe men who cannot understand how horribly these stories can effect us women, that experience this in life, can be a little more forgiving and chalk it up to the anger of a girl, drugged, stripped, dragged to three parties to be fucked and molested by a number of boys... and give us a bit of a break. instead of demanding we give this break to the rapists.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)" I don't know (and neither does the generic "you" what the kids in this video are guilty of, other than being obnoxious assholes". Public outcry seems to now have made this case move forward a bit. And that I am glad of because too often do things get "wink wink nudge nudge" dropped even when perp confesses and there were witnesses.
I do not engage in calls for physical violence. I have not engaged in that. I understand those that do, but I do not and will not.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Two wholly different concepts, the second of which, denies the first... all over the map on this one.
"Yes, you have the right to say the most vile, uninformed things..."
"If and when those kids are convicted, we can talk about them."
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)The Rape Crew call themselves this name.
The Rape Crew made videos, took screen shots and tweeted about their GANG rape of a 15-year old.
The Rape Crew bragged and joked and seemed quite proud of their actions.
Now you want to say we don't know enough? We aren't "sure?"
This is why women know first hand that some men and women will never help them, no matter how many hours they've spent being dragged around like a prize and raped and sodomized repeatedly. With clear, convincing evidence provided by the criminals themselves, even then you want to play this "poor little innocents" card.
Fuck that.
All I can say is that I hope people like you do NOT have daughters.
I suspect if this had happened to your daughter, you might be a bit faster to condemn the actions, after you saw the results in her bruises, her PTSD, her ripped up body. I suspect you would have no doubts of guilt.
But then again, maybe not. Many times, a rape victim's own parents are in denial.
Denying this horrific event happenned - denying the scope of its horror - is beneath any human with eyes, ears and brain. Telling others to "shut up before all the facts are in" is just sick.
Clue: THE FACTS ARE IN. We just need a few more facts to convict all of them.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Mariana
(14,859 posts)I hope that people like that don't have SONS.
Can't you hear THAT lecture? I imagine something like this:
"Now Son, if you abduct a young woman and you and your friends repeatedly rape and sodomize her, and then you send pictures of the rape to your friends, and tweet about it while it happens, and make videos BRAGGING about it, don't worry. The coaches, the town prosecuter and the sheriff will protect you! You little innocent dear, you!"
"And you will be condidered as pure as a lamb - even with your own public displays of your crimes - until you possibly, maybe, hopefully NEVER make it in front of a judge. And everyone will call HER a slut, but you will still be protected. Yes, even if you post pictures on your FaceBook page of you GANGRAPING a 15-year old!!!! Nobody believes stupid girls and wymmins anyway."
"So rape on, Son! Get it while you can and enjoy yourself. Ain't this a GREAT Kuntry?"
How the hell else do young men think this is acceptable? Men and women in their society MADE it acceptable. I can pick which ones, methinks......
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)who was gang raped by 18 men, what was it, two years ago? "These guys will have to live with this for the rest of their lives" and "They found themselves in this horrible situation" and "She dressed like a 20-year old" and "Where were her parents when she was being held prisoner and raped by 18 men."
The perpetrators are "innocent until proven guilty" even tho' they filmed themselves having sex with a girl who clearly was incapable of giving consent because she was "dead like Caylee Anthony," as one of the slime buckets said. A trial, yes, but when these maggots, who were seniors, get to go thru juvie court, even tho non-jock, non-protected-by-football-culture kids as young as 11 are tried as adults, you know the trial cannot be fair, and cannot give proper justice. That's when thoughts of public calling outs and shaming are warranted, I think.
Thank you for taking up the fight, Tsiyu (and everyone else on these threads that see the guilt is clearly with those that did the crimes and those that hid the crimes, not the victims.)
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Able to objectively see the innocence in all rapists until a court of law adjudicates their cases. What is the motive in their attempt to censor or control speech about this "televised" gang rape and the one of which you just wrote? I have no idea, but they are willfully protecting people who BRAGGED about their crimes in public.
I can guarantee that if the "objective ones" were filmed being raped, and the video was made public, they would have no problem with any of us condemning their rapist. And I suspect most of the apologists are male as well, feeling they are also removed from this possibility.
If a person truly wants to be "objective," they would note the way this case was not at all taken seriously and was actually discouraged by a prosecuter whose home also happened to be one sight where the gang rape took place.
The "holier than thou" ones don't appear to understand the reality of rape in this nation, and appear willing to sacrifice the young women rather easily, as they harp on us for reacting to PUBLIC displays from the rapists themselves. That they have more disgust for our words than for the actions of the rapists speaks volumes.
We have a right and a duty to respond to criminal actions publicly broadcast by their perpetrators. They chose to make their sick perversions and assaults with a penis part of the public domain.
We as the public have a responsibilty to let them know they are less than animals and that we will no longer tolerate such beasts among us.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"We have posters calling for these kids to be castrated."
And you think for some reason this visceral desire will be carried out at the end of day based on posts on DU...? Or is merely expressing this visceral desire the offensive part?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)of their actions huh?
Its pretty awful. Normally I'd agree with you, and in fact I've been silent all day watching this story go down, but the kids have incriminated themselves. On camera.
The girl and her family tried to get justice and the prosecuting attorney bullied them into dropping the case (because her son was one of the rapists and her house was the scene of one of the rapes).
The coverup of crimes, and links amongst the police, the football team coaches, the prosecuting attorney and the perps is undeniable.
Sorry Buzz Click but its pretty damning.
Editing to change "confessions" to "bragging".
Yup, these guys are BRAGGING about doing this.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)this so-called rape crew is being protected from due process by some powerful people in that town. the person i am focused on is the victim, who deserves some justice.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)None of us here are in any position to do anything to these savages. That's right - no DUer is at this moment rounding up the lynch mob and heading out to Steubenville to exact frontier justice. We are, however, allowed to discuss them in any way we see fit. So come down off your high horse and grow your own self up.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)[img][/img]
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Tempest
(14,591 posts)While you appear not only to be uninformed about much of the case, you also are condescending towards those who disagree with you.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Confusing "behavior" with mere visceral desires is also rationalizing...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)off scott free and has a scholarship at a college he is enjoying right now, ..... is being outed.
one of the posters on du got a graduate degree from the same university. has been donating money. sent an email. and had a response.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014354403#post186
our voice does matter. some more than others
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Pisces
(5,599 posts)service announcement you be the judge. I go with public service announcement. They do not deserve privacy and I am
glad these animals are exposed. They have to deal with public ridicule and no true justice. They lived in the right town
with the right parents and played the right sports.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,998 posts)Anonymous was angry at what they considered a cover up, found and released the video. The accused were more or less going to walk, electronic data had disappeared or been deleted,--although there were interviews with witnesses.
If not for Anonymous, this would be a very different story. The accused have their defense in place, but some of it was refuted by the video.
Tempest
(14,591 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Tempest
(14,591 posts)She's going down with her son.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)supposedly there are worse videos out there but everyone claims to have deleted them. It doesn't appear that the local police was investigating too hard. This video, they said they were aware of.
Look at that video with the boy in the other room making jokes about it "we raped her harder than the duke lacross team" "she's deader than obi won kenobi after darth vader cut his head off" then look at the tweets "some people deserve to get pissed on" "you don't sleep through a wang up your ass"
I think due process is what people want here and are worried isn't happening because of the prosecuter the coach et al.
d_r
(6,907 posts)Charlie Keenan, his mom is the prosecuter Jane Hanlin-
When the family of the victim went to file the charges, Jane Hanlin was present. She strongly discouraged them from filing. Hanlin frightened not only the victim, but the parents as well. Telling them that her name was going to be dragged through the mud, she will be in and out of court for well over two years, the press wouldnt leave any of the family alone once the crime was made public. Scared out of their wits, the parents said they didnt want that and Hanlin then said not to worry just leave it up to her and the detectives on the case.
Tempest
(14,591 posts)And sued in civil court.
Her actions were despicable.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)started at her house? i am thinking she didnt share that piece of info.
d_r
(6,907 posts)I get the picture of big fish in a small town, school board superintendent, football team booster. The whole going to wvu to testify thing says a lot to me.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)ass
i suppose it is the girls fault for being sl*ts using the damn bathroom
Was it a home or a school bathroom? Did he get it from a kid? I downloaded the zip file of his email this morning but haven,t had the stomach to open it and I don't think I will ever have, I don't want to see his other pics
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)cause it had a hand blower thing.
and the other stuff you are talking, i dont know. but it is exploitation for others to be seeing girls in their unaware. i hope there is nothing in those files whatever you did... zip?
Anonymous downlowded creepy guy's email and posted it in a zip file. I downloaded it but as much as i'd like to play internet detective I don't think I have the stomach for it.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)"We are no better than the knuckledraggers who automatically assume that every "camel jockey" is a terrorist " ? What? I read it as those involved should be prosecuted and should be ashamed of themselves.
Is discussing a crime on a forum taking away "due process"? Is discussing the fact a crime was overlooked taking away "due process"?
What the hell?
Response to uppityperson (Reply #107)
seabeyond This message was self-deleted by its author.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)executed, so I think your pleas are going to fall on deaf ears.
Due process of law, like the Geneva Conventions, is so 20th Century, so quaint and obsolete.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and you have an issue with duers being outraged that this 16 yr old was unconscious taken from party to party to be raped by various boys?
amazing.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)of their peers.
Some on this thread are going so far as to advocate castration, presumably after a trial but you never know.
Stop creating a straw man. You'll see upthread that I called this a 'criminal conspiracy' (with all that entails for the conspirators). But even the worst person in the world is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Judge Lipps will be the sole arbiter of justice.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)I seconded, only to be reamed out by SeaBeyond on what I consider rather spurious grounds.
The principle of "due process of law" encompasses junvenile proceedings as well as adult and I doubt that anyone here advocates punishing someone accused before a trial and guilty verdict. Of course, after having read this thread, I may have to re-think that. Not totally surprised, though, after all the congratulatory blood lust when OBL was extra-judicially executed, a DU moment that shall live in infamy.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)People do that when there are serious miscarriages of justice (such as police departments and school staff aiding in cover ups).
Other people get all huffy in defense of subhuman rapists and their sick subhuman toadies.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)on a trial and guilty verdict before punishment?
If so, then BuzzClik's original remark seems all the more telling.
An old-time DUers named EFerrari said it best re the rationale for due process (paraphrasing): "We treat evil men decently not because of who they are. We treat evil men decently because of who we are."
redqueen
(115,103 posts)A fair trial comes from the jury system, not DUers, FFS.
Nice to know where sympathies lie, though.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm sorry but exactly WHAT are we supposed to be censoring ourselves over this for?
Micheal Nodianos ADMITS he participated on the vid! He's 18. He has escaped justice because the county prosecutor BULLIED the girl and her family into NOT pressing charges.
He is free and clear.
This isn't some kind of witchhunt. The guy brags that the girl is "dead" amongst other despicable actions like urinating on her and anally sodomizing her.
Exactly how are we supposed to be ashamed that he is being subjected to some anonymous internet commentary condemning his heinous and despicable behavior?
Really, your defense of this is grotesque.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)an unconscious, non moving "dead" girl.
and you are lecturing us because we call that vile....
Telly Savalas
(9,841 posts)We must not speak ill of these precious little angelic boys until a compromised judicial system makes official acknowledgement of their confessions. That would be horribly unfair to these fine upstanding young men!
To be sincere, I'm frankly shocked and disappointed that these little boys still have the ability to walk.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)These guys are being tried in juvenile court, and I, for one, don't think that's fair. I'm betting those two are the ones connected to this that were under 18 when it happened, and therefore the only ones who can be tried in juvie court, while the others, (the revolting one in the youtube clip is a freshman in college) were over 18 and therefore risked a proper trial. The higher-ups in Steubenville are trying to make this go over, but they recognized that there had to be some reaction, so they went with a scapegoat/fall-guy/minimum effort approach. I'll also bet that there's a very good chance the two on trial would have been getting a much lighter sentence if Anonymous hadn't put a spotlight on this case. Of course, just trying them in juvie court instead of as adults is in itself a lightening of their sentence - how many times haven't we heard of poor kids being tried as adults as young as 11?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)celebrating their rapes.
Some of these guys ARE adults.
Their exploits were/are widely available for viewing on Facebook and other social media sites. These guys acted with impunity for a very long time, bragged about it actually.
This wasn't a plea for due process - it was an attempt to shut down discussion about a public raping of underage minor girls that these guys are actually so proud of they posted vids/pics/tweets of it, for months.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)its meaning quite differently. I thought and think Buzz Clik was summoning us to be better than the 'knuckledraggers' at FreeRepublic who consider every came jockey a terrorist (paraphrasing BC) and to demand that due process of the law take place before passing judgment.
Like I say, presumption of innocence is so quaint and obsolete.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Uh, he admits his despicable actions himself. Noone has to presume he's "innocent until proven guilty." He lays it all out for us himself. Edited to add that I'm not sure you understand that THIS particular video features one of the perps who is NOT on trial. He got off scot free.
We are free to judge him all on our own. He's not facing charges.
We just get to watch him condemn himself. Did you watch the video??
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)We don't have to presume anything, except that there has been no justice in this case from the time these cretins abducted these girls. And there are more than one.
People have been raped since there have been people. Most rapists act it in secret, and depend on that secrecy to continue raping.
These Rape Crew members did their animal acts IN PUBLIC - for PUBLIC VIEW.
Can you not see that we have gone so low in our social treatment of women, that now young men feel free to brag and post pictures of their gang rapes?
Why is that? Apparently, they know that people like you - even with evidence provided by the rapists themselves - will still choose to protect the rapist.
These kids knew that. They were treated like little sheiks, like special snowflakes even when they behaved like the worst beasts.
So many of us are sick that Anon had to force their hand. Now you want to say we should all just "Wait." Waiting sure did a lot to help that girl before anonymous, eh?
If you choose to post damning pictures of yourself, it is my RIGHT to condemn you as loudly and stridently as I can. If you choose to brag about raping others in tweets, videos, pictures, it is my RIGHT AND DUTY to condemn you loudly and often.
You want to close your eyes and not see this War against Women and Girls first hand? That is your right.
I will continue to say these are all beasts, from the Sheriff to the Mommies to the Coaches to the Rape Crew themselves.
I will condemn them here - they should all be removed from society, and castration doesn't seem like a bad idea considering they have HURT others with their bodies. They should not have the ability to do so ever again.
The Rape Crew is happy you can't see any of their handiwork, c-a. Those of us who DO see it want them punished as severely as the law will allow.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)posting bigoted statements, blaming EVERYONE in a group for the actions of some "every came jockey a terrorist" but are rightly upset about the actions of those involved.
As far as "presumption of innocence"? That is a legal term which is necessary during a trial. When someone confesses they did a horrible thing, have photos and witnesses, then in the larger non-judicial world, there is no "presumption of innocence". You are confusing the legal term used during a trial with reality.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Who precisely is denying the suspects due process, and how precisely is that being done?
Or are you confusing "due process" and "visceral desire"?
frylock
(34,825 posts)and several tweets.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)The subhumans most prominently featured in the video were simply having a grand old time laughing about the young woman being raped in front of them, and making sickening comments about her, as their more evolved teammates reacted with shock and horror.
The only kind of justice the rape-culture-supporting subhumans in that video will get is the social kind, and they are most certainly getting it.
Hopefully this case will open some eyes, and the people who stick their fingers in their ears and claim that rape culture does not exist will STFU and learn.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)They posted videos of the rapes.
They tweeted about it. Posted pics. Bragged about it.
And we're somehow supposed to feel shame or guilt if we comment on this??
Really. Why are you defending these creeps?? Its sickening.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)That much has already been established as fact.
To me, knowing that the people of DU have a strong negative reaction toward rape gives me the opposite thoughts than what you seem to have. I'm personally glad to see people speaking out against gang rape.
But, of course, it would not be the whole picture, the entirety of DU, if not for those few voices raging about how horrible DUers are for talking about the people who raped a girl, usually referred to as rapists.
TrogL
(32,822 posts)The police chief and district attorney (?) are in on it. Due process is already out the window.
AllyCat
(16,205 posts)All of them need public shame and jail time.
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)The female lead prosecutor, coincidentally has a son who is on the football team.
She apparently tried to dissuade the victim in this case from pressing charges. Saying that the victim's reputation would be destroyed if she pursued this further.
Also there are reports that there is another woman who was a victim, who when she also approached this prosecutor, was told the exact same thing. No charges were filed in that case either.
Another Penn State, no question about it. Clear as day.
Football is a religion after all. They're just some athletes having fun, no need for concern. They'll surely grow up to be fine upstanding adults.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Shine the light on the cockroaches and let's see them scurry into prison where they ALL belong, coaches and local officials included.
These are the lowest of the lowest human life forms.
obamanut2012
(26,087 posts)PufPuf23
(8,802 posts)SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)The only time I've ever heard the name of this town. And it was not a very flattering reference.
Phil: I'm talking about Rock 'N' Roll shows in Steubenville, Youngstown, Pittsburgh, places like that.
The Bass Player: Pittsburgh?
Lenny: Steubenville?
siligut
(12,272 posts)Then posting it all on one channel on Youtube. Gang-stalk the gang-rapists, I think it isn't enough, but it is something.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,584 posts)this was 'ok'? So ok that it was posted on social media? It's like. 'oh we called and ordered a pizza to soandso's house. Aren't we impish?"
To participate in something like this is reprehensible.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Skittles
(153,170 posts)anonymous is giving more justice to the victim than that town or the justice system ever will
billbailey19448jj
(31 posts)Anyway, good on Anonymous for exposing these sick bastards to the public. Let's hope justice is served very soon
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)The people who are supposed to bring justice, they are in collusion with the perpetrators. It seems that football is worshiped or something.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Hope there is justice soon. Don't really feel ok knowing these rapists are free to find more victims. And that there are adults who would cover this up!
siligut
(12,272 posts)This morning I saw a picture of Michael Colin Nodianos on Mr. gut's laptop, he usually lays low when it comes to controversial things like this. But because it was on the front page of his news source, he was reading about it. The MSM article wasn't complete in all of the sordid details, but it was enough.
Bringing an injustice into the light, for all to see, gives hope that justice will prevail. This sort of cruel, trou du cul behavior combined with the collusion of authorities makes me feel sick too.
Anonymous is really shining bright now.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)but... this one, i know he doesnt want to hear, and fuck it... he heard. as i bring him the updates. if i have to know this outrage, he gets to also. his son is going off to college too. at least he has the basics, and ya, like yours, he will be reading that. and have a clue how it is progressing.
siligut
(12,272 posts)Like how the prosecutor/adviser Attorney Jane Hanlin who has a son involved in the case ". . . strongly discouraged them from filing. Hanlin frightened not only the victim, but the parents as well. Telling them that her name was going to be dragged through the mud, she will be in and out of court for well over two years, the press wouldnt leave any of the family alone once the crime was made public. Scared out of their wits, the parents said they didnt want that and Hanlin then said not to worry just leave it up to her and the detectives on the case."
The MSM apparently left this out.
That is the aspect of this case that really digs, leaving it up to people who have no intention of actually helping and will do further harm if needed. I wonder how much Hanlin was paid for this poison? Or did she volunteer as a "concerned friend"?
Anonymous really came to the rescue.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)riverbendviewgal
(4,253 posts)I guess she advised everyone to erase all their phones through her son. Also an accessory to this by having a party in her home where liquor was. Not a great parent eh?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I'm guessing she neglected to tell the victims' parents that. Her son is also implicated in other photos, emails and tweets as having been one of the "Rape Crew".
This has been a massive cover-up. I hope this girl (and there are reports that there are other girls who have been victims as well of this "Rape Crew" gets justice.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)need to be ostracized for life.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:
Make all involved in the rape of the Steubenville scandal be pushed out of Juvenile court so there can be real justice.
there needs to be justice for the victims in the Steubenville, Ohio rape scandal. i'm requesting that this case be pushed up to the higher courts so that there is some real justice, also to allow for a jury trial for all involved. This is a serious offense and this needs to be an example for everyone that this type of behavior should not, and will not be Tolerated in our society. i don't believe that the police or news in the area of the alleged crimes that are covering the story are truly trying to prosecute the accused, but rather cover up a scandal that has dramatically effected the lives of many individuals.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/OSU-expel-Michael-Nodianos-Rape-Crew-member/538243282853465
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Shouldn't the FBI be called in? Or is that just if the victim is moved across state lines?
mike_c
(36,281 posts)That's child pornography, and several of the boys who have provided testimony are apparently at risk, Mark Cole especially.
on edit: If I'm not mistaken, the kidnapping charge has been dropped.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)thread on the 14 yr old that has come forward.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)Or any other independent film crew. Get into this town and start talking to these kids. Make a damn difference.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)budkin
(6,711 posts)You know it's gonna happen but I still applaud anonymous.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)under the rug. too many high ups exposed for criminal activity in suppressing.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...the same treatment.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)in the long video where some guy talks about, and gets the main guy to admit, that the main guy and others have raped the girl, and what if it were his daughter. At least one person (and maybe a 2nd one) were somewhat normal. BUT they didn't DO anything to help the girl, except maybe by their presence stop it from occurring again. If that happened, which we don't know.
But for the idiot doing the taping, and the "star" of the video, it's very disturbing. How can anyone treat another human being that way? I would never have wished that on even enemies of mine in the past, even boyfriends who had wronged me. It's inhuman. It's CRIMINAL.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)it seems they are hearing about these crimes after the fact, from at least one subhuman who was there and saw the crimes and not only did nothing, but went on to laugh and joke about it.
The young men who were outraged are named on that one site to which the link was deleted once already. They may well be among the few who have cooperated with the police.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)From the assholes (charitable term) who committed the act, to the assholes who stood by and watched, to the assholes who are now protecting the people who did this....
Fuck....
Zookeeper
(6,536 posts)Who apparently thought Nodianos was just hilarious? He should be exposed, as well. That was so sickening...
johnnykooks
(12 posts)It was set in Ohio. There was a quote after Christian Slater offed the the two jocko dickheads Ram & Kurt. CS: "Veronica football season is over, the only thing Kurt and Ram had to offer was date rapes and AIDS jokes."
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)d_r
(6,907 posts)is lighting up https://www.facebook.com/osu
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Can you imagine having a daughter at that school, where that disgusting pervert is also attending? I would be raising hell with that school.
I've had enough in life of shaming women - as the 15-year-old victim was shamed EVEN BY ADULTS. It's time to shame the hell out of the rapists and rape enablers. Make them pay for their sick vision of society where they can hurt others with their bodies - like a penis is a goddamned weapon - with impunity.
It's an ugly fact of life - rape - and those who want to deny its insidious hold on our culture are simpletons or rapists themselves..
Nodianos is one sick, messed-up puppy who needs to be locked up for the good of society. I hope he and his sick family lose it all - along with the rest of the Inglorious Rape Crew.
Berserker
(3,419 posts)rightsideout
(978 posts)I was reading this link and it just gets more dramatic with each paragraph. The town is one big coverup over this incident.
http://localleaks.blogs.ru/2013/01/01/steubenvillefiles/
Apologies. I noticed I just repeated the link over again from the OP's original message. Tired, I guess.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)"It has left McCafferty, the police chief, fuming and frustrated.
For weeks after the girls parents came forward, he again pleaded to the other partygoers to come forward with information about the possible sexual assault. Only one did, he said.
Everybody on those Web sites kept saying stuff that wasnt true and saying, why wasnt this person arrested, why arent the police doing anything about it, he said. Everybody wanted to incriminate more of the football players, some because some of the other schools in the area are simply jealous of Big Red.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html?pagewanted=all
ArnoldLayne
(2,068 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)It's a little scary, to be sure, but these people are like Salander's crew in the Millennium Trilogy. Hopefully they will not disrupt the lives of innocents, and keep their hacking to the evil among us.
cali
(114,904 posts)on her blog Prinnified. Then there was the NYT Magazine piece of Dec 16 and then Occupy and then Anonymous- not knocking Anonymous here just posting the facts.
http://prinniefied.com/wp/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html?pagewanted=all
bloom
(11,635 posts)Also - from her blog:
Cody Saltsman has asked to make a statement here to express his remorse for the photo and comments that he tweeted. It is also his desire and ours to clarify that we never had any evidence of his direct involvement in the subsequent events of that night. While he may have been present at various parties that evening, there has been no evidence of his involvement in the rape, nor has he been charged with any such crime. We are happy to post his statement; it is below. We appreciate that Cody Continue reading Case Dismissed!
It IS nuts when people have to take the law into their own hands - IOW - publicly shaming / punishing those who should be shamed /punished because the legal system stops working. But that is how it needs to be when a whole town goes along with something, when good people are forced to be silent. When the violent ones are glorified. It happens too often.
Too often people only see violent men as heroes. Who will be watching football this weekend? - identifying with the tough guys? 40 million Americans or so - or so I'm told.
ArnoldLayne
(2,068 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)exboyfil
(17,865 posts)It is potentially a Mann Act Violation at the very least. It sounds like the good old boy network could have extended all the way to the state investigation level potentially (accusations of cronyism and nepotism involving the state investigator). The underage girl is from West Virginia and was picked up in West Virginia and taken to Ohio where she, at a minimum, engaged in sex with the strong potential of it being nonconsensual rape or worse.
Response to antigone382 (Original post)
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