Of Shay, Nat Turner and the Green Corn Rebellions...

[FleetwoodMac]

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:10 PM - Edit history (1)

This list is obviously nowhere near comprehensive, and is merely compiled to illustrate a point.


? Shay’s Rebellion (1786-1787)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 5

? German Coast Uprising (1811)
Number of American Rebels('Slaves') Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 95

? Nat Turner's Rebellion (1831)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 56

? The raid on Harpers Ferry (1858)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 2

? American Civil War (1861-1865)
Number of Armed American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: Approximately 300,000

? Green Corn Rebellion (1917)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 3

? Jayuya Uprising (1950)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 2

? Utuado Uprising (1950)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 9

? Kent State Shooting (1970)
Number of American Student Protesters Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 4

? Jackson State Killings (1970)
Number of American Student Protesters Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 2

? Wounded Knee incident (1973)
Number of American Rebels Killed Without ‘Due Process’: 2


? Drone Attacks on American Citizens (2011)
Number of American Rebels (unlawful combatants*) With Dual Citizenship and Openly Engaging In Terrorist Activities Against The United States Killed Without ‘Due Process^’: 2 (Anwar Al-Awlaki and Samir Khan)

Collateral Damage: 1 (16-year Abdul Rahman al-Awlaki, the son of al-Awlaki Sr.)

*11. Citizens of the United States who associate themselves with the military arm of an enemy government, and with its aid, guidance and direction enter this country bent on hostile acts, are enemy belligerents within the meaning of the Hague Convention and the law of war. P. 37.

^Admiral (Rtd.) Dennis Blair's (Director of National Intelligence): The reason I went this far in open session is, I just don’t want other Americans who are watching to think that we are careless about endangering—in fact, we are not careless about endangering lives at all, but we especially are not careless about endangering American lives as we carry out the policies to protect most of the country, and I think we ought to go into details in closed session.

Murder is an abhorrent act, and while I doubt I could ever take the life of another person, I understand that the world we live in is not all unicorns and rainbows, and in the words of Kant, morality is not properly the doctrine of how we may make ourselves happy, but how we may make ourselves worthy of happiness. A measure of justice, as well as the proportionality of our actions, is an inherent facet of jus ad bellum. And in my humble estimations, Mr. Obama acted as he saw fit, within the bounds of the Constitution.

[villager]

1. And when the President is no longer Mr. Obama, but acts as he "sees fit?"

A little oversight might look pretty damn good then, que no?

[FleetwoodMac]

5. I would be more wary, naturally, but I suspect cases of American unlawful combatants...

... would be the exception rather than the norm.

Also, oversights do exist currently, as these recommendations are channeled through sixteen intelligence agencies and funneled to the office of the Director of National Intelligence, who in turn, would make recommendations to the President and the National Security Advisor.

[Democracyinkind]

2. Double dip and signature strike attacks are the very definition of "careless"

There's simply no excusing that part of the program.
As to the "legitimate targets" - history will decide upon how effective this strategy truly is in the long term.

added: I take objection with almost all extrajudicial killings you listed.

[FleetwoodMac]

6. Noted (NT)

[lastlib]

3. Add Kent State and Jackson State to that list....

Kent State: May 4, 1970 -- 4 killed, 10 wounded
Jackson State: May 15, 1970 -- 2 killed, 12 wounded

all for simple act of voicing disagreement with Administration policy on Vietnam.

[MineralMan]

4. There are other examples, as well.

Many examples, including hostage situations where a sniper kills the hostage-taker at some point, are relevant. Those are extra-judicial, too, and that action is taken when the risk of dead hostages outweighs the life of the hostage-taker. The sniper receives permission to fire from people of higher authority, but makes the actual shot based on his own decision. No judicial authority is given for that action. It is a police action in an emergent situation.

It is not a simple issue at all. At this point, I'm not really commenting on it, due to that complexity. My information is limited.

[FleetwoodMac]

7. Will do (NT)

[villager]

8. I'm not sure how this list is supposed to make us feel *better* about unilateral executive drone

...strikes.

It just tells us that this kind of murder will have even more lethality, and be easier to do, going forward. Through and past the Obama administration...