Top 10 H-1B Visa Companies All Specialize in Shipping American Jobs Overseas

[The Straight Story]

WASHINGTON (19 February 2013) — The Top 10 users of H-1B visas in FY 2012 were companies who specialize in shipping American jobs offshore, according to an analysis of government data by Computerworld magazine.

The analysis comes at a time when a bill before Congress, the “Immigration Innovation Act,” would expand the H-1B visa program from 85,000 visas to more than 400,000 annually.

In “The data shows: Top H-1B users are offshore outsourcers,” Computerworld found that, “Based on the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) data analyzed, the major beneficiaries of the proposed increase in the cap would be pure offshore outsourcing firms.” http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9236732/The_data_shows_Top_H_1B_users_are_offshore_outsourcers

“This confirms that H-1B visas facilitate the transfer of high-skill, high-paying American jobs to other countries,” IEEE-USA President Marc Apter said. “Congress should pass laws that create U.S. jobs, not destroy them.”
...

“There are two reasons these firms hire H-1Bs instead of Americans: 1) an H-1B worker can legally be paid less than a U.S. worker in the same occupation and locality; and 2) the H-1B worker learns the job and then rotates back to the home country and takes the work with him. That’s why the H-1B was dubbed the “Outsourcing Visa” by the former Commerce Minister of India, KamalNath.

http://www.ieeeusa.org/communications/releases/2013/021913.asp

[treestar]

1. No they have to be paid prevailing wage

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/wages.cfm

One doesn't have to be in favor of H-1Bs to at least recognize that the facts are the facts.

[patrice]

3. How is "prevailing" determined? nt

[treestar]

5. The page shows

Looks like it takes a lot of work to convince the Department of Labor, too.

[The Straight Story]

4. A thread from the past that covers that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021103361

[treestar]

6. So better enforcement of the law might be in order

But the law is the law, and that article states it as if it's not.

Of people claiming they were replaced by a lower paid H-1B, none ever claim to have tried to inform the Department of Labor. It's like some people just want to be victims or something. If they really disobey the law, why not call for prosecution in that case? And a lot easier to prove than "war crimes" prosecutions for which are demanded daily on DU.

[The Straight Story]

7. I agree

But we know how the law works when it comes to corporations

As far as: "Of people claiming they were replaced by a lower paid H-1B, none ever claim to have tried to inform the Department of Labor"

The problem I see with that is....you don't know what people are making. When I worked at verizon (as a temp) doing coding we ended up having a slew of people come on board via H1B and shortly afterwards a lot of temps were let go and told the project ended, but the new temps stayed (I left a few months later when the conversion was done - and I am glad, hated working at that hell hole).

No idea how much they made but I knew many of the temps were making close to what I was (we talked on smoke breaks). Were they making less? Possibly, but hard to tell - so no way folks could have complained.

[treestar]

12. The government would investigate

You would not have to prove the case. The government would have its usual investigatory powers.

Look it up - they do investigate H-1B employers. There have also been laws passed about "H-1B dependent" employers. The government does try to attack abuse of this program as of any others. It's not easy to file for an H-1B and the case for one has to be proven, along with postings and paying the prevailing wage.

I'd be all for eliminating the visa category entirely - but people depending on misinformation to gain their position don't help the argument at all. The only argument for eliminating it is that there is no need for any foreign labor in the U.S. People need to make that case to Congress to eliminate the category or limit it to very few visas per year. It's already limited to 65000 per year.

[jeff47]

10. Because they'd like to have a job again someday.

If they really disobey the law, why not call for prosecution in that case?

Because suing or otherwise triggering legal problems for your employer is an excellent method of never having another job in your field.

"Let's see...A resume from John Smith. Work experience: XYZ Corp. XYZ Corp just lost a pile of money due to H-1B visa fraud, based on the testimony of one John Smith. Yeah, we're gonna throw that resume out."

[treestar]

13. If that argument were true

There would be no labor laws at all. If the H-1B and other immigration laws cannot be enforced, then how can the wage and hour laws be enforced? Based on what you are saying, employers rule the world anyway and there's nothing we can do to enforce any laws against them.

You're also assuming all employers are dishonest and would refuse to hire any whistleblower on illegal activity. No one wants an honest employee. As if all business is criminal enterprise, much like the mafia.

[jeff47]

16. Hi, welcome to the United States. I hope you enjoy your stay.

If that argument were true There would be no labor laws at all.

You mean the labor laws that are almost never enforced?

The labor laws under which Wal-Mart was sued, and the SCOTUS ruled that they'd fucked over too many people for a single lawsuit?

Why on earth do you think labor law is commonly enforced in the US?

You're also assuming all employers are dishonest and would refuse to hire any whistleblower on illegal activity.

No, they want honest employees that are willing to just 'suck it up' when the company violates labor laws.

See, the employee has to be honest. The company doesn't have to be.

[treestar]

17. You're throwing your hands up as if laws are useless

They are enforced. I've worked with the state department of labor and seen them do it. There are stringent penalties against employers for violating these laws, not having worker's compensation insurance, etc. Employees do fight back. They aren't as passive as you suggest. If they were, the unions would never have come into being.

[jeff47]

19. So that Wal-Mart decision I referenced did not happen?

Employees do fight back.

Sure they do. And then they get to change careers.

If they were, the unions would never have come into being.

You might want to consider actually reading up a bit about the history of unions and how they came to be.

Murder is quite illegal and always has been. Assault is quite illegal and always has been. Yet companies paid people to murder and assault lots of union organizers. And very few suffered any legal consequences.

[treestar]

22. And some murders are prosecuted

Some other crimes are actually prosecuted. Some people actually do go to jail. Some people are actually fined for H-1Bs. Or declared H-1B dependent:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62C.pdf

Not every single person who ever reported a crime was punished for it by permanent job loss. And if it really were true there are lawyers who would love to take that case.

My point is it appears no one even wants to try and misrepresents the law. Argue the true argument: that there should be no aliens allowed to ever immigrate to work here. Because that is where they are truly coming from. They want to have the job market to themselves without having to compete with any immigrants.

After they get that finally, they'll find another group who should not be allowed to compete in that market. Maybe Ronnie Raygun's women who should stay home rather than clog the job market.

[jeff47]

25. The point is you have no idea what you're talking about.

My point is it appears no one even wants to try and misrepresents the law.

Oh no. Most people who have worked in the industry for a while know at least one person who tried.

That's why we know what happens to them.

Argue the true argument: that there should be no aliens allowed to ever immigrate to work here.

Uh, no. I'd be thrilled to expand the number of green cards we hand out. Because green card holders would not be undermining US salaries.

[treestar]

27. I've googled it and gotten information

and posted the links. So I think it's someone else who has "no idea what [they] are talking about."

Anyone who was fired for the reason you give should have gone right to an employment discrimination lawyer. There is no way the DOL would condone that and no way the law condones it.

It is also true in worker's comp, there are penalties for retaliatory filing. The government may have its problems, but it's not the Mafia.

[jeff47]

29. Because googling means you have more information than those who live through it, right?

Yeah, people in the industry really have no idea what goes on in their industry. Only the Google truly knows.

Anyone who was fired for the reason you give should have gone right to an employment discrimination lawyer.

Because employers are dumb enough to say "we're firing you for reporting our H-1B violations".

What happens is your previous "good" reviews start become "bad". You are assigned horrific and meaningless shit jobs. And since your reviews suck and your work is unimportant, the company "lets you go" during their next "restructuring". Meaning you can't prove in court that you were fired for reporting their H-1B violations.

[treestar]

30. Now you are claiming that H-1Bs are the thing they care about most

As if they make up a huge percentage of the work force. And every employer rubs his hands together cackling with glee that they can replace their US workers with foreigners whom they intend to employ in violation of federal law. Will top that off with a big conspiracy never to hire anyone who ever reported their competitors for violations of the law. If we lived in such a terrible world, it would be a dystopia.

Further, the DOL is not going to be completely uncaring, they are charged with enforcing the law. They can get the records and analyze whether the reviews are dishonest. The government is not going to believe the employer unquestioningly. Why is this one think particularly unprovable?

And googling does provide information that experience does not. One person's experience doesn't prove a point as much as statistics do. My experience is as valid to me, and I have experience with the state actually going after employers for not paying wages, not having worker's comp insurance, penalizing them for retaliatory firings and denying unemployment compensation. I cannot imageIt is ridiculous to claim there is no way to penalize them for H-1B violations. The laws already anticipate retaliatory firings and forbid them too.

[jeff47]

33. 300k of 1.4M.

As if they make up a huge percentage of the work force.

27% of IT jobs, as I mentioned in another post. Even showed you the math.

So, what's your threshold for "huge percentage"? Do you think a massive pay cut on about 1/4 of your industry might have an effect on the pay in the rest of your industry?

And every employer rubs his hands together cackling with glee that they can replace their US workers with foreigners whom they intend to employ in violation of federal law.

No, just the ones like IBM and Microsoft.

Basically, large companies want lots of H-1B workers because their management got MBA degrees, not CS degrees. So they assume all labor is interchangeable and that the low cost of the H-1B workers will be an enormous benefit. They offshore for the same reason. It doesn't work out very well, but the math keeps looking good, so they keep trying it.

And no, it's not something as stupid as "dem peoples iz dumb".

Both the H-1B and the offshoring companies are worried about getting as much cash as possible today, because IBM or Microsoft won't be paying them later. So they produce shoddy work quickly and cheaply to maximize their short-term profits. Plus, who's gonna sign up for the H-1B program in New Delhi? The guy who's really good and already getting paid well in his homeland, or the guy who's having trouble finding work because he's "meh" at what he does?

This doesn't happen with physical products like iPhones because the company can measure the quality of the product - the phone can be taken appart and the workmanship physically measured. Software quality is not so easily measured, especially by the MBAs running these projects.

Employees who are citizens and green card holders actually believe they will be employed by the company longer-term, so they are more concerned about producing good work that keeps them at the company for a long time.

Will top that off with a big conspiracy never to hire anyone who ever reported their competitors for violations of the law.

It doesn't require a conspiracy. It requires google. You do realize employers routinely search for potential employees to see what turns up, right? When they find a candidate who testified against their employer, that candidate's resume moves to the bottom of the pile or the trash.

Happens regardless of the topic of the testimony - non-union employees who testify about other workplace violations tend to have a similar difficulty finding work.

If we lived in such a terrible world, it would be a dystopia.

Welcome to dystopia.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Further, the DOL is not going to be completely uncaring, they are charged with enforcing the law. They can get the records and analyze whether the reviews are dishonest.

Based on what? Reviews of software developers are utterly subjective. There are no metrics by which you can measure how "good" a software developer is.

Lines of code? Could be lots of good code or lots of crap. Number of bugs fixed? Fixing one hard problem is more valuable than fixing 100 easy ones. So there's no unbiased measurement the DoL could use to show the employer was lying about the employee's performance.

The only way the DoL could prove a case of retaliation would be if the company was dumb enough to retaliate quickly. And occasionally, companies are so dumb. But much more often they use the leeway of subjective reviews and work assignments to make the employee look bad first, and then they fire them. They don't give the employee a pink slip as they walk off the witness stand.

One person's experience doesn't prove a point as much as statistics do.

Apparently my providing you with statistics didn't prove anything either.

and I have experience with the state actually going after employers for not paying wages, not having worker's comp insurance, penalizing them for retaliatory firings and denying unemployment compensation.

I'm guessing these were "blue collar" jobs. Employers often underestimate the intelligence of "blue collar" workers. So the employer isn't so careful about retaliatory firings.

Not so with software developers (or most other "white collar" jobs). They assume we know how to find lawyers. So employers push for laws to disarm us, instead of assuming we have no weapons. That's why there's no cases about "not paying wages" to software developers - overtime laws literally have an exception for software developers and IT staff.

And that's why employers are pushing so hard for more H-1B visas: they need the law to change to drive wages down further.

[jeff47]

9. They only have to be paid the prevailing wage for the position they are hired,

not the position that they actually work.

So you hire an H-1B worker as a "Software Developer II". Prevailing wage in this area is about $40-50k. So you pay them $45k.

Then you assign them the duties of a "Software Developer V". Prevailing wage in this area is about $90-100k.

Ta-da! 50% off labor.

[treestar]

14. Then they are doing something illegal

When it comes to this one law, people seem to assume the government has no enforcement powers.

The only way to make a real case against hiring foreigners is to argue to Congress and the President that there should be no foreign labor. Have them pass a statute that there be no labor based immigrants. All of the rest is smoke and mirrors.

It isn't just H-1Bs. There are people who get green cards based on their jobs:

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/perm.cfm

There is at least one anti-H-1B post on DU per week, but never any complaints about green cards going to aliens! Those stay and have a path to citizenship! Yet nobody every complains there job was taken that way.

[jeff47]

18. Government can't enforce what government doesn't know about.

When it comes to this one law, people seem to assume the government has no enforcement powers.

How, exactly, would the government enforce a law when they never hear about the violation of that law?

More to the point, the company has a wonderful built-in defense - "Yes, we intended to hire only a SD2, but he was so good at it we gave him additional duties. Just like we'd do with a US Citizen employee."

How do you prove they were lying about that? You can't. Thus they get away with it.

It isn't just H-1Bs. There are people who get green cards based on their jobs:

A green card holder's employment is not restricted to a single employer - if the company is screwing them over salary, they can easily go to another company that pays them appropriately.

That's not true with H-1B visas - they have to work for their sponsor. Transferring that sponsorship is not trivial, so the company has a much easier time screwing H-1B employees.

There is at least one anti-H-1B post on DU per week, but never any complaints about green cards going to aliens!

That's because the people complaining about H-1Bs are not nativists who oppose all foreigners. They oppose this particular visa because it has been used and continues to be used to undermine US workers.

If we actually needed more "high-tech workers", then I'd be thrilled to support a program that hands out more green cards for such workers. But that's not what companies are asking for. They're asking for more H-1B visas. If the goal was just to alleviate a shortage, why would they only lobby for one particular visa?

Perhaps it has something to do with the massive advantages over workers that the H-1B provides?

[treestar]

23. Wait just a minute

Why would they not hear about it? As any other law violation? What if someone does not pay taxes? How the the government ever "hear" about it? They have their ways and the H-1B employer is applying to the government for the thing and thus has to document it.

That's what gets me - the total inability to enforce this law, apparently. If that's the case, eliminating the H-!B program wouldn't work either. In fact it would be worse. How does the government ever hear about the hiring of people not legally entitled to work then? They'd be illegal, not H-1Bs, and definitely working for subpar wage in lesser conditions.

Then why isn't transferring the sponsorship "trivial" since the whole thing can be done snubbing the law? They can pay less than prevailing wage but have to obey the law regarding transfer?

If the visa were eliminated, there would still be foreign competition and the same people would complain about it. They are nativists, as they oppose any foreign labor to compete with them. That's their true opposition to this visa and there is opposition to other visas. They want the American job market to themselves (presumably are honest enough not to expect to work in other countries, but quite possibly hypocritical on that score) and figure they can at least make it easier to find and keep their jobs by eliminating the H-1B 65000 people per year. If they get their way, they will move on to elimination of job based green cards or any other group of labor competitors they can think of.

Now the H-1B program is there to hang their hat on. With 65000 of them per year, it is amazing how many more people than that they displace.

[jeff47]

24. FFS Pay attention

Why would they not hear about it?

Because no one would report it.

The company obviously doesn't have an interest in announcing it broke the law

The H-1B employee isn't going to report it, because they don't want to be thrown out of the country.

The non-H-1B employees aren't going to report it, because that would end their career as explained above.

What if someone does not pay taxes?

By itself? Nothing. The government has to have a reason to believe taxes were not paid before they pursue a case. If you are paid in cash, the government will not automatically know you failed to pay taxes. Someone would have to report your crime before the government could begin investigating.

That's what gets me - the total inability to enforce this law, apparently. If that's the case, eliminating the H-!B program wouldn't work either. In fact it would be worse. How does the government ever hear about the hiring of people not legally entitled to work then?

Wow.....you've never heard about "illegal aliens"? You know, the main focus of teabagger spittle in the border states? The entire reason Ted Cruz gave the state of the union response?

As for why that doesn't happen in "high-tech jobs", they don't pay their employees under-the-table. They have actual paychecks. Starting that requires filing an I-9 form, which would alert the government to a non-citizen getting hired who does not have a work visa or green card. I-9's aren't filed for day laborers paid in cash, so "illegal aliens" can perform those jobs without getting caught.

If the visa were eliminated, there would still be foreign competition and the same people would complain about it.

So you don't bother paying attention to what anyone says to you then?

The problem with H-1B visas is they undermine US salaries. Period. I'll happily compete with software developers in India - I already do. But there are advantages to companies keeping the work in the US. What these companies are trying to do is get those advantages while paying closer to India-like salaries.

If someone came into your business and demanded to pay 50% less for everything, would you say "yes sir!"? I think not. That's what H-1Bs enable.

They are nativists, as they oppose any foreign labor to compete with them.

http://hookedonphonics.com

Now the H-1B program is there to hang their hat on. With 65000 of them per year, it is amazing how many more people than that they displace.

How many "high-tech" workers are there in the US? See, you'd have to actually know what that number is to have any context for the 65,000 H-1B visas.

According to the 2010 US census, there's 1,426,201 people employed in "Computer Systems Design and Related Services" - the blanket term for programmers and other IT staff. http://www2.census.gov/econ/susb/data/2010/us_6digitnaics_2010.xls (Excel spreadsheet)

So that 65k is about 5%. Yes, I know not all H-1B visa workers are employed in that field. But the vast majority are.

So let's take unemployment at around 5% in 2006. And then compare that to unemployment at around 9% at the peak of the current crisis. You think that 4% change might have made just a wee bit of difference? It's only 4%! Clearly everyone freaking out were massively over-reacting, right?

But you're also utterly ignoring that 65k is per year. So we're not talking about only 65,000 total workers. It's a 6-year visa. So we're talking about ~390,000 workers. (Didn't bother looking up the number for the last 6 years since it hasn't changed drastically).

Hey look, now we're talking about 27%. Golly, perhaps one fucking quarter of an industry just might be a big enough number for you to think it has an effect.

[treestar]

26. You simply refuse to deal with the fact that there is a law requiring

that their working conditions be at prevailing wage. I've made links to it. Your entire screed is about the concept that this one particular law (or parts of it) are apparently unenforceable because unlike other law violations, no one victimized by it can ever make a report to the authorities. No one who violates it can ever be prosecuted therefore.

I'd like to see if ICE or whoever has charge of this law has a record of no prosecutions whatsoever.

Oh wait:

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/H1B-Visa-Enforcement-to-Increase-in-2010-772292/

[jeff47]

28. And if you actually had read my posts, you'd see that I'm fully aware of such a law

You'd also have found how companies routinely get around that law. And "routinely" does not mean 100% success, just vast majority success.

But hey, you seem to have stopped calling me a racist asshole based on the fantasies in your head. So you're making a some progress.

[treestar]

32. You seem not to have read the link.

Here it is again.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/H1B-Visa-Enforcement-to-Increase-in-2010-772292/

So you can feel a little better about the whole thing. The government is looking after the job market for you. That's its job under the laws.

Who called you a racist asshole? I did not.

[jeff47]

34. You claimed my only objections to H-1B visas were out of nativism

So yes, you did call me a racist asshole.

And no, that lovely article has done exactly squat. The government made noises, but they don't have a way to actually come through with any real enforcement. That's why I didn't bother responding to your three-year-old article - in the intervening three years nothing has changed.

[ChromeFoundry]

15. This is not true. Here are the facts:

The Bottom of the Pay Scale: Wages for H-1B Computer Programmers

Key Findings:

• In spite of the requirement that H-1B workers be paid the prevailing wage, H-1B workers earn significantly less than their American counterparts. On average, applications for H-1B workers in computer occupations were for wages $13,000 less than Americans in the same occupation and state.


• Wages for H-1B workers in computer programming occupations are overwhelmingly concentrated at the bottom of the U.S. pay scale. Wages on LCAs for 85 percent of H-1B workers were for less than the median U.S. wage in the same occupations and state.


• Applications for 47 percent of H-1B computer programming workers were for wages below even the prevailing wage claimed by their employers.


• Very few H-1B workers earned high wages by U.S. standards. Applications for only 4 percent of H-1B workers were among the top 25 percent of wages for U.S. workers in the same state and occupation.


• Many employers use their own salary surveys and wage surveys for entry-level workers, rather than more relevant and objective data sources, to make prevailing-wage claims when hiring H-1B workers.


• Employers of large numbers of H-1B workers tend to pay those workers less than those who hire a few. Employers making applications for more than 100 H-1B workers had wages averaging $9,000 less than employers of one to 10 H-1B workers.


• The problem of low wages for H-1B workers could be addressed with a few relatively simple changes to the law.

Source: Center for Immigration Studies
Many more facts can be found here: More


P.S. If you believe that laws are laws and no breaks them, try driving on the highway - recognize the fact that laws are always broken when there is no one to enforce them.

[Egalitarian Thug]

20. One should also have to recognize all the facts, something you so-called centrists

avoid like the plague. Prevailing wage laws are; A. rarely enforced, and; B. easily circumvented. In nearly all cases, simply re-titling the position is sufficient to slash the salary paid to the replacement worker while remaining in compliance.

[patrice]

2. K&R

[Bluestar]

8. Tata and Infosys are India-based and I suspect others

on this list are too. They are IT "body-shops" whose only goal is to undercut American IT workers' salaries. Foreign companies should be banned from using H1B's due to past abuse.

The program is supposed to allow companies to import qualified workers when there is a severe shortage of qualified workers with a unique skill set within the US. The vast majority of H1B's are to supply ordinary skill sets with cheap labor.

[Egalitarian Thug]

21. All of them except Accenture (Formerly Anderson Consulting), IBM, M$, & Deloitte

are Indian. The Clinton administration just sold the new American economy to the Indians for a relatively small bag of cash.

[OhioChick]

11. U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren thinks H-1B's are undercutting the US workforce

"At a 2011 House hearing on H-1B visa issues, U.S. Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) said she had asked the Labor Dept. for a report the average wage for computer system analysts in her district. The result: $92,000 overall for entry level workers, but department also reported that the entry level rate prevailing wage rate for an H-1B worker was $52,000. "We can't have people coming in and undercutting the American educated workforce -- that is just a problem," Lofgren said."

More: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9236396/What_will_an_H_1B_cap_hike_bring_to_U.S._