General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDavid Frum: Why You Shouldn't #StandWithRand
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/03/07/why-you-shouldn-t-standwithrand.html
Why You Shouldn't #StandWithRand
by David Frum Mar 7, 2013 2:31 PM EST
snip//
Paul's filibuster ostensibly dealt only with a very remote hypothetical contingency: targeted killings on American soil of Americans who present no imminent threat to national security. Paul insisted that all the harder questions be taken off the table. He had (he said) no issue with a targeted killing on American soil of an American who did present an imminent threat. He avoided the issue of the targeted killings of Americans outside the United States - i.e., the actual real-world problem at hand.
Instead, Paul invoked a nightmare out of a dystopian future: an evil future president shooting a missile at an American having coffee in a neighborhood cafe, merely on suspicion, without any due process of law.
I think we can all agree that such a case would be pretty deplorable. It is also far-fetched.
snip//
History, however, does not cycle so neatly. Something more than ordinary partisanship is driving this switcheroo. The alienation and fear to which Rand Paul spoke in the Senate yesterday - the alienation and fear that shapes the political environment to which Marco Rubio and Mitch McConnell must adapt - comes from some deeper and more tangled place than disappointment at the outcome of an election.
Executive assassinations, hyperinflation leading to populist dictatorships, ordinary Americans protecting themselves by launching insurgencies against the state - these are themes of Rand Paul's politics, now endorsed by his Republican Senate colleagues. Out of what doom-haunted imagination are such dark fantasies born? The Republican party used to be the party more serious about defending America. Now it provides a home to those more doubtful that America is worth defending.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Good on Rand just for the fact that maybe WE could buy a clue.
The public loved the display, the challenge, that didn't cost him a thing.
Further, when it comes to drones...his cause was just.
Godspeed Senator Wyden as you know Sen.Wellstone, my he rest in peace, would be up next in line to the podium after you.
There...add me to the 'list'.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)It Turns Out Rand Pauls Filibuster Was a Pre-Planned Scam for Cash
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)the motive.
Time someone on our side did the same but who? Reid, Durbin...spare me the chuckle, indeed.
No, it is time we realize all we have is President Obama in the WH. Nothing more.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)silk pillow? If you only knew, and you won't.
He hit it nowhere. He did it for self-serving reasons, nothing more.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Cha
(297,316 posts)"have a clue" then it's you who is acting like they don't have a clue.
gulliver
(13,186 posts)It matters who is doing the talking. Anything Rand Paul advocates he discredits. We are lucky he is a Republican.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)conservative, though he's seen the light pretty much regarding how FUBARed his party his.
Protalker
(418 posts)He is angling for the survivalist vote.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)McCain, Graham, and now Frum. Hmmm.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)McCain and Graham LIKE drones. Frum has been a pariah with the conservatives because he speaks the truth.
His biography is pretty wild; he is getting more liberal, but can you blame him?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum
snips///
Frum was a fellow of the American Enterprise Institute, a neo-conservative think tank, from 2003 until March 25, 2010, when his paid position was terminated and he declined to accept the offer of a non-paying position.[21][22] Media reports noted that the termination came three days after Frum's strongly worded criticism of the Republican strategy on health care reform, but Frum said that the AEI had not cited his criticism as the reason for his termination.[21][23] It was also suggested that he was fired for criticizing Fox News, saying "Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox.[24
MadHound
(34,179 posts)Upbraiding Paul over wanting a simple answer to a simple question. Neo-cons all.
Funnier still, watching people around here bend over backwards to side with those idiots. Amazing what kind of bedfellows you lie down with when trying to defend the indefensible.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)doing. Maybe they just think Rand is an asshole? Plenty of other people do. And he is; he was campaigning, raising money, not speaking from any inner core of goodness or concern. You swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Congrats!
MadHound
(34,179 posts)And here you are now, running interference for neo-cons, who are running interference for Obama. Just goes to show you that it is all about the letter behind the president's name.
He was asking a simple question, one that he couldn't get answered any other way. What is wrong with that?
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)"Running interference for neo-cons?" Is that what I've been doing on DU for many years? WHOA!! Go ahead, my friend, support Rand Paul all you want. I will call you on that.
MadHound
(34,179 posts)I can add no more. However all you can call me on re Paul is that he, and I, and fine folks like Eugen Robinson agree on the need for, "greater clarity about how and where our government believes it has the authority to use drones as instruments of assassination, especially when U.S. citizens are in the cross hairs."
Wasn't there, once upon a time when you questioned the morality of the drone program? Oh, yeah, about five years ago, when Bush was the one flying the drones. Now that it is a President with the D behind his name, here you are, on the side of these neocons.
What a sad, sad spectacle.
Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)Behold the fabled hero addressing Rush Limbaugh yesterday:
we currently do drone strikes overseas, and Im all for em when people are shooting at American soldiers, I think theyre a great tool. I think its a great weapon we should use to defend American soldiers and American lives. But we are also killing a lot of people who arent actively involved. Now, they may be bad people. They may have been involved yesterday or going to be tomorrow.
But we kill them at home, asleep, in restaurants, cafes, et cetera. Now, that standard may be okay overseas. I think its debatable, but at home that standards not good enough.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/03/07/senator_rand_paul_calls_the_show
And a bunch of folks fell for it. Just like they fell for his dad, the supposed peacenik, last year.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)Cha
(297,316 posts)I got one for you..
"Ted Cruz, Rand Paul want drone language in CR
Ah, so Rand Paul is not done blathering on about drones.
You see, I was under the impression, wrongly in this case, that all the tea party dude wanted was a note from the AG saying the president could not use drones against non enemy combatants domestically, which he got.
Now that he has garnered that little moment of fame that has his followers swooning, he wants to put into a continuing resolution attached to a spending bill that would prohibit what the AG has already said is illegal.
This is what happens when bad conspiracy theorists get a hold of a notion and get some free
publicity out of it. Is this really what Kentucky sent this guy to the senate to do? Waste weeks prattling on about things that have never happened, that he knows will never happen, and once he gets his little note will prattle on about it forever?
Why does this garbage always get tacked onto bills that have nothing to do with it? Left and right, they both do it, know that a bill will pass so they shove a little chunk of legislation for the nutjjobs that follow them.
Fear not though people! Though he has not made the news for an outrageous statement in almost a week, Ted Cruz is jumping into the mix, getting himself a bit of free publicity out of it.
Hmmm. Cruz and Paul. Two peas in a pod when it comes to pining for the spotlight."
MORE http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/292932-ted-cruz-rand-paul-want-drone-language-cr.html
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)don't even bother much hiding your idealistic peers these days.
Rand Paul is a joke, but Frum is just as bad to Democrats that pre-date the current Democratic leadership that appear to think Reagan was just swell, you represent your ideology well, even if you are conservatives in liberal clothing.
I dig that you folks are beginning to drop the facade. Your honesty at least is respectable in this case.
Cha
(297,316 posts)It's a republicon talking about a teabagger.. that is all. And, you're reading all kinds of crap into it. And, hurling abuse.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)And educate yourself before you cast aspersions. Read Frum's wiki, provided very early, and stop hopping on the negative train.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)You can change the program and applaud conservatism all you want, I know Republican dogma is wrong, no matter how much you feel changing times have vindicated them.
I work for a living so I don't buy into glorifying the Republican philosophy no matter how many fake Democrats tell me these guys are "my friends". I lack the large salary and stock portfolio of the neoliberals that are natural allies to these folks, but thanks for trying to recruit me.
I imagine your time is worth far more than my own and I have just wasted some of it.
babylonsister
(171,070 posts)Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)(or anyone else, for that matter) is now equal to 'glorifying' them?
"You Third Wayers ..." Don't you people ever get tired of dragging the old Label-Maker out everytime someone doesn't agree with your opinion?
I just wish you'd all re-gifted.