Pigs, Fetuses, and an Emotional Richard Dawkins

[redqueen]

...

To simplify for those unable to view the video: anti-abortionists sometimes argue that a fetus is a person that demands protection because of certain attributes, including the ability to feel pain and suffer. Singer (and Dawkins) argue that an adult pig shares those attributes with (and to a larger degree than) a human fetus, and so anti-abortionists who eat meat are hypocrites.

Generally, I agree with this idea, though there are a number of problems with it. The biggest one is that pretty much all anti-abortionists argue that one of the most important characteristics that makes a fetus a person is its ability to develop into a person. Obviously, pigs are not very good at this, and so you will probably not have much luck convincing any anti-abortionist using the pig argument. Also, the argument loses all its steam once it runs into a vegan anti-abortionist.

The real point is whether or not we should be elevating a fetus’s potential ability to feel pain over an adult woman’s right to control her own body. Dawkins argues that the answer is yes:

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http://skepchick.org/2013/03/pigs-fetuses-and-an-emotional-richard-dawkins/

Holy crap.

[Puzzledtraveller]

1. A lot of people

Are suprised that Dawkins holds these positions. They assume his atheism precludes him being staunchly against abortion.

[redqueen]

2. It isn't that I assume he's pro-choice, I'm shocked by his reasoning for being anti-choice.

I also thought he was interested in science. His back and forth with his followers re: studies about presumed fetal pain seem to indicate otherwise.

[liberal_at_heart]

3. I respect him as a scientist but do not agree with his position on abortion

I will always believe in the right to choose. There are scientists out there that are against abortion. There are atheists against abortion. And there are scientists out there that believe in God. I don't care what a scientist believes as long as they don't try to mix science and belief and as long as they don't try to legislate their beliefs.

[Dawson Leery]

4. +1

[redqueen]

5. Did you see his tweets asking his followers about the research?

I never thought he'd be the type to form an opinion based on things he assumed to be facts.

[HappyMe]

8. I agree.

There are people from all walks of life on both sides of this issue.

[ismnotwasm]

6. Dawkins is emotionalizing

This gets so tired.

Pregnancy causes pain. Pregnancy, can lead to other thing besides a little 'bundle of joy' including disability and death. Losing a pregnancy causes pain. Having an abortion is no fun either.
Every single pregnancy is a risk for a woman, and aside from the human right of body autonomy or the right to not be subjected to reproductive slavery, a women should always have the choice whether or not to carry pregnancy to term (if she is able, some women can't)


Dawkins is way off on this one. I dislike him anyway, now he's on my shit list.

[ceile]

7. So far out there- this could be a joke.

I'm having a hard time taking this seriously. Is he high? Or just totally loony tunes?