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mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:14 PM Mar 2013

American Football

Just to be up front and honest, I'm a geek. Maybe a super-geek. I like to think so.

In all the discussions about rape by football players, there hasn't been a discussion about football and America's love and/or obsession with it. At least, I haven't seen any. America and the world idolize athletes, to varying degrees depending on the sport. It sounds like football is down-right worshiped in Steubenville, hence the death threats against the victim, but even the national news (as noted here) had its collective head up the backside of football, to the point where they expressed great sorrow for the two boys whose lives would be utterly shattered, perhaps to the point where they would never be able to play football again.

It seems to me like football in America is a stand-in for bravery. The national anthem says this is the land of the free and the brave (or one of those patriotic songs - I'm too lazy to look it up), but we really aren't. At least not any more. What will people actually stand up for? Granted, occupy did its damndest to stand up to corporations, but they were far outnumbered by people mocking them. From the safety of their living rooms. What will those people stand up for? It seems like they will stand up for freedom, as long as it's a corporation's freedom to overcharge those people standing up for the corporations' rights. And somebody has to tell them to do so.

So football is what people (mostly men) can watch to satisfy their inner feeling that they have to be tough. When football players, even from highschool, are convicted of the rather major crime of rape, the chorus says, "Why are you picking on them? Just leave them alone, it's only a harmless rape." I bet the players soaked in the adoration of the town for a good long time, coming to the conclusion that it was ok for them to do what they were doing. Hell, it's almost an extension of the game. Score a touchdown, then just score.

I guess that answers an earlier question. What will people actually stand up for? Yup, you got it.

America, fuck yeah!

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American Football (Original Post) mindwalker_i Mar 2013 OP
I love football, and have many friends who do. I have never, ever heard any of them or myself RB TexLa Mar 2013 #1
Fair enough mindwalker_i Mar 2013 #2
I think what mindwalker_i is saying is that in some quarters the two convicted Steubenville radicalliberal Mar 2013 #4
I never hold doors open for football players (or women now) The Straight Story Mar 2013 #3
When I was in Idaho as a sophmore in HS mindwalker_i Mar 2013 #5
The over analyzing part I was speaking of (and you are right in many ways) was: The Straight Story Mar 2013 #6
Overanalyzing? mindwalker_i Mar 2013 #7
A childhood friend of mine who played football in high school recently told me that most of his radicalliberal Mar 2013 #8
Mindwalker_i, do you know what's so ludicrous about this claim that "toughness" is to be found radicalliberal Mar 2013 #9
I ALWAYS hold the doors open for football players. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #18
K&R You've made a very good, and very uncomfortable point. Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #10
A stand-in for bravery, but also a much deeper connection that would not be popular if said. Safetykitten Mar 2013 #11
It's no different anywhere else...sports are a part of our history and society davidn3600 Mar 2013 #12
Unfortunately, many have turned sports into a test of masculinity for young boys, . . . radicalliberal Mar 2013 #13
I've seen that used as an insult right here on DU.. Fumesucker Mar 2013 #15
Wow! Do those who use that insult realize how unjust they are? radicalliberal Mar 2013 #16
The best revenge is to outlive them Fumesucker Mar 2013 #19
You're absolutely right! :) radicalliberal Mar 2013 #20
Basically the media will take any opportunity to sympathize w/celebrity criminal alp227 Mar 2013 #14
Maybe we just think it's fun to watch. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #17
 

RB TexLa

(17,003 posts)
1. I love football, and have many friends who do. I have never, ever heard any of them or myself
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:48 PM
Mar 2013

say "harmless rape," or complained about anyone picking on a rapist.

radicalliberal

(907 posts)
4. I think what mindwalker_i is saying is that in some quarters the two convicted Steubenville
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:10 PM
Mar 2013

high-school football players clearly have received far more sympathy than the victim. Such misplaced sympathy has been expressed by Candy Crowley and other leading figures in the national media. These people are rape apologists. The victim in this case has received death threats, including two from local high-school girls. Indeed, local Steubenville officials seemed intent from the very beginning to cover up this scandal. They would have succeeded in doing so, had it not been for Anonymous. The head football coach dismissed the allegations of rape from the very beginning and showed no sympathy to the 16-year-old girl. As the father of two young women, I don't appreciate the attitudes expressed by these people.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
3. I never hold doors open for football players (or women now)
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:58 PM
Mar 2013

I think this (and other things) tend to over analyze something simple.

Football is fun, many played it as kids so can related to the game (whether on a team or in the yard with friends). In many small towns the game is way out - to get college and a career - that they don't normally have. Baseball is also big in small towns as is basketball.

It builds friendships and networking (which is where some problems can come in - it is like a fraternity) that can last a life time.

It is not about being a stand-in for bravery, it is about fun, opportunity, and a game folks just have fun playing.

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
5. When I was in Idaho as a sophmore in HS
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:10 PM
Mar 2013

during the 80s, as a geek, it really sucked. And a lot of it was because of football players who thought they could do whatever the fuck they wanted. They were right. They weren't going to get suspended, putting the team as risk. Steubenville is the same thing. The majority are worried about how the team will be affected.

Hell, it's been pointed out here ad nauseum! Every time one group is put on a pedistal, they feel like they can do what they want. It used to be Nobles. Now it football players (and to a lesser extent, basketball and other sports). Calling it "overanysing" seems like a convenient way to ignore the connection, kind of like calling everyone who said the Iraq war was ginned up a conspiracy theorist.

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
6. The over analyzing part I was speaking of (and you are right in many ways) was:
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:17 PM
Mar 2013

"It seems to me like football in America is a stand-in for bravery."

And

"So football is what people (mostly men) can watch to satisfy their inner feeling that they have to be tough."

On what you said, yeah. I played on the chess team and was good friends with many of the football players as we grew up together. And they got away with a lot that others did not.

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
7. Overanalyzing?
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:31 PM
Mar 2013

When I was in HS in Idaho, the football players definitely thought they were "more manly," tougher, etc. than everybody else. Football was a way to manhood for them. I think it's a good bet that their parents (fathers) also thought it was manly. I will admit that the connection between football and "land of the brave" is slightly tenuous. But it does seem like it has some of the same qualities as the Roman gladiator fights - the circuses of "bread and circuses."

radicalliberal

(907 posts)
8. A childhood friend of mine who played football in high school recently told me that most of his
Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:50 PM
Mar 2013

teammates had viewed all of the nonathletic guys at their school as being inferior (a ludicrous, bigoted mindset, if you think about it). Another friend of mine who had also played on the same team recently told me that he never met a group of guys who were so insecure. The way he put it, they were constantly trying to "prove" their masculinity over and over and over again, usually at the expense of guys who weren't even on the team.

That being said, I have two other close friends who played football in high school, one of whom even played at the university where he earned his degree. Both of them are gentle men and reject machismo (of which I've given an example above).

The point I'm trying to make is that football means different things to the different guys who play the sport.

We don't all have the same experiences. For example, a boy who has no interest in sports is likely to face particular problems growing up in a society whose culture is saturated with sports, bullying being at the top of the list. On the other hand, there will be a decent kid who will feel better about himself by playing football and gaining self-confidence. The experiences of two such boys are meaningful to themselves, but the other's experience may not be appreciated by the other. Both experiences are valid and should be appreciated (although I feel the nonathletic kid is usually forgotten). I've seen this reaction in several previous topics in this forum of a similar nature.

radicalliberal

(907 posts)
9. Mindwalker_i, do you know what's so ludicrous about this claim that "toughness" is to be found
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 12:00 AM
Mar 2013

only among men who have participated in competitive team sports? It's the fact that moral courage is often overlooked completely. There have been extremely courageous men who never participated in sports, yet there are those in society who consider nonathletic men to be "feminized." Not only that, there are physically rugged men who've never participated in sports. They got into shape by working out, sometimes following rather grueling routines.

Again, I'm not denigrating any guy for having participated in a sport. I've never done so. I"m just defending nonathletic guys from the mindset that they're not "manly" enough simply because they haven't played one team sport or another.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
10. K&R You've made a very good, and very uncomfortable point.
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 12:05 AM
Mar 2013

Remember that these are the people that would have you believe that they are your friends.

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
12. It's no different anywhere else...sports are a part of our history and society
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 12:52 AM
Mar 2013

Go to Europe and you will find soccer rivalries that are far more intense than rivalries we have here.

Sports has been a centerpiece of practically every human civilization. The Olympics of Ancient Greece or the Gladiator games in Rome for example. The Ancient Mayans even had a game where the losing team was sometimes executed.

Sports is not something that is ever going to go away.

But it's not from an inner-feeling of toughness like you think. Sports provide escapism, identity, and a sense of belonging.

radicalliberal

(907 posts)
13. Unfortunately, many have turned sports into a test of masculinity for young boys, . . .
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 01:10 AM
Mar 2013

. . . as if sports are the only standard. So, we end up with the need for the book pictured below to be written.

[img][/img]

radicalliberal

(907 posts)
16. Wow! Do those who use that insult realize how unjust they are?
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 04:11 AM
Mar 2013

Last edited Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:36 AM - Edit history (2)

This line is usually used in the situation of nonathletic boys being forced to participate in team sports in traditional mandatory P.E. classes. In the first place, they don't want to be there! Every school day they dread the period when they have P.E. These boys don't want to participate in these team games, which can lead to some of the worst physical bullying I've ever heard of. They have no choice! They are forced to take a class that is completely useless to them! I'm amazed how anyone who calls himself a progressive can support what really has been nothing less than a form of institutionalized bullying. Not to mention the fact that these boys don't get any exercise! I ought to know because I've experienced both in my life -- first, the "old P.E." of my boyhood and, secondly, my health club experience late in my life working with a personal trainer on a bodybuilding program. I love working out! I get more exercise in a single workout than I ever did in an entire year of mandatory P.E. Traditional P.E. is of no benefit to nonathletic boys, who could benefit from a choice of physical activities other than mandatory team sports. Bodybuilding, for example, is a great builder of self-confidence.

I dare say that those DU members who use this line as an insult are either guilty of incredibly boneheaded ignorance or stupidity (not to mention a complete lack of empathy for bullied kids) or outright cruelty. I suspect many of them were bullies themselves when they were kids. I have no respect for them. In fact, I hope one of them reads my post and has a fit. ("Hey, guys, the truth hurts, doesn't it?&quot That's the way it goes. If you (editorial "you" here) don't have a sound argument to make, you resort to a personal insult such as the insult you (not editorial "you" here) have mentioned in your post. (What an awkward sentence that was!)

Fumesucker, I bet you're now thinking He sure sounds familiar. I think I've heard this rant before. Well, as a matter of fact, I'm bbdad ("bb" for "bodybuilder&quot under a new username. Remember me? Talk to you later, my friend.

radicalliberal

(907 posts)
20. You're absolutely right! :)
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:36 PM
Mar 2013

In a long-distance phone call, I recently told an acquaintance of our generation who had played football in high school that I had joined a health club and had hired a personal trainer to work with me on a bodybuilding program. I hadn't seen him in decades. He said he had become rather chubby over the years and wished that he had waited to take up bodybuilding much later in life.

You know what's funny? In 2003 I was diagnosed with late onset type II diabetes. Of course, this development was depressing. But today, since I've modified my diet and have dedicated myself to bodybuilding (as well as brisk hour-long walks on "off" days), my health seems to be quite good. In fact, I've never been healthier or physically stronger before in my life! My scrawny boyhood self would be surprised! When I was diagnosed, I soon read that many people who come down with diabetes end up becoming much healthier. Funny how that works!

I'm glad you're doing well and that you're outliving them.

alp227

(32,047 posts)
14. Basically the media will take any opportunity to sympathize w/celebrity criminal
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 02:30 AM
Mar 2013

whether Michael Vick, Roman Polanski, anyone with storied achievement. I wonder if South African media had sympathy for Oscar Pistorius (the track runner) when he was accused of murder & bought into his accident/self-defense defense.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
17. Maybe we just think it's fun to watch.
Thu Mar 21, 2013, 07:35 AM
Mar 2013

I'm assuming you have something that entertains you too.

Boomer Sooner!

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