No One Wants To Bury Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

[JaneyVee]

A funeral home owner in Worcester, Mass. is struggling to find a burial plot for one of the suspects in the Boston Marathon bombing. Four cemeteries in three states have refused to accept Tameran Tsarnaev’s body, according to the New York Daily News. Tsarnaev’s family wanted his body to go to a funeral home with experience doing Muslim rituals and that’s how the body ended up in the care of Peter Stefan. He may have experience with some of the less desirable members of society but has never seen anything like this. “I’ve had murderers here, people that murder their kids, people that murder their parents,” he said, according to the New York Times. Tsarnaev’s uncle Ruslan Tsarni requested a simple graveside service after his body is washed according to Muslim tradition.

But so far, no cemetery has agreed to take the 26-year-old who died from "gunshot wounds of torso and extremities" and blunt trauma to his head and torso, according to his death certificate that lists his time of death as 1:35 a.m. on April 19. "My problem here is trying to find a gravesite. A lot of people don't want to do it. They don't want to be involved with this," Stefan tells the Associated Press. A group of protesters has gathered outside his funeral home but Stefan is adamant that everyone deserves to be buried. "I keep bringing up the point of Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh or Ted Bundy. Somebody had to do those, too."

Stefan has said he will have to ask for help from the FBI or state authorities if he continues to be rejected.

Link: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/05/04/tamerlan_tsarnaev_cemeteries_refuse_to_bury_boston_maraton_suspect.html

[reformist2]

1. Take him to Hart Island, NY.

http://hartisland.net/

[frogmarch]

51. Sounds like a good idea, but can

non-New Yorkers be buried there? I saw nothing at the link about who can be buried there, and I didn't see anything about it in a Wiki article either.

[reformist2]

56. Yeah, I don't know. I just learned about the place a few weeks ago, still creeps me out!

I had no idea such a place existed!

[frogmarch]

57. It creeps me out too!

And I'd never heard of it either.

[Jamastiene]

73. I think places all over have "potter's fields" as parts of cemetaries.

I know the graveyard where my adopted grandmother is buried has a potter's field section of the graveyard. She used to take me there to visit those graves and put flowers on them. There is also a potter's field section of the graveyard where my biological grandmother is buried, in another state, as well.

On the Hart Island web site, it says:

New York is the only major American city to maintain a separate public burial ground for its strangers, for those who die alone and unclaimed or for whom nobody is willing or able to afford a private funeral—a potter's field. The term "potter's field" refers to land purchased for the burial of strangers just outside of town and comes from a passage in the Bible:

"So Judas flung the money into the temple and left. He went off and hanged himself. The chief priests picked up the silver, observing, 'It is not right to deposit this in the temple treasury since it is blood money.' After consultation, they used it to buy the potter's field as a cemetery for foreigners." [1]

http://hartisland.net/Home/History/tabid/64/Default.aspx

[BainsBane]

2. I can't say I'm surprised

The guy did kill innocent people.

[atreides1]

77. So did Timothy McVeigh

But he was buried without much discussion or argument!

[hrmjustin]

3. I am not surprised!

Who would want the publicity and the possibility of vandalism.

[MADem]

4. They've checked neighboring states, too--no joy.

This puts them down to a few options:

Send him to MD; to the metro/DC area, where perhaps the uncle can sort something out.

Box his ass up and send him to Russia, as some irate bystanders on TV are suggesting.

The Bin Ladin solution, which is prescribed by the Qu'ran in cases where there is concern that the body could be dug up and beaten or abused in mocking fashion--a burial at sea. This is not optimal, but it's probably the best solution, because there are plenty of Muslims who believe that because of his actions before his death, he should not be buried with his face towards Meccah in any event, owing to his crimes. If I were the uncle, this would be my choice, and I'd do it very quietly, perhaps asking the Russian Embassy for some help in obtaining transportation out to sea--if the Russians have a vessel that's a few days away, out at sea, maybe visiting Havana or something, they could either put into port here or have a small craft take the body out to them and they could take it to deep water and give it the old dump-er-oo.

[Cha]

26. Or send him to Chechnya where they're putting up pro-Tsarnaev

posters on the walls in Grozny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22400536

[MADem]

33. Well, his family is in Dagestan, not Chechnya.

No one knows who is putting up those posters--it could be just a bunch of wise-ass kids with a printer and lots of time on their hands.

Even Chechens think that it's some bullshit scammer looking to make money--"Jahar" doesn't need money for a defense--he has the best legal team in the country.

Residents of Grozny say the posters most likely came from someone trying to make money out of the Boston Marathon bombings.

[Cha]

40. Yeah, I know.. They're scamming. The poster guys probably

don't want him, either.

[HiPointDem]

69. they lived in dagestan before they came to the us, so i don't know why you think they're scamming.

[MADem]

92. Follow the conversation. Cha is talking about the poster - putter- uppers in Chechnya.

Someone is appealing for "money to bury Tamerlan." They are putting up posters in Chechnya and asking for online donations.

[annabanana]

5. Tamerlan Tsarnaev is gone. He doesn't exist anymore.

There IS no "Tamerlan Tsarnaev".

He is pining for the fjords?

[Drale]

6. Just cremate him and send him to his mother, if you can find her.

I really don't care about "cultural" taboos about cremation or anything like that, he was a terrorist and killed innocent people partially because he couldn't seem to fit in in America. Burn him to ashes, send him out and be done with it, this shouldn't even been an issue.

[hrmjustin]

7. His family won't allow it in all likelyhood.

[pintobean]

9. I agree 100%

He has no right to be in US soil.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Against Islamic Law

And I don't care how horrible he was in life...this is down right ridiculous IMO.

[Drale]

17. Your kidding right?

Its against Islamic Law to kill Innocent people, yet he did this.

...So We decreed for the tribe of Israel that if someone kills another person - unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind. Our Messengers came to them with Clear Signs but even after that many of them committed outrages in the earth. (Qur'an 5: 32)

Say: 'Come and I will recite to you what your Lord has made forbidden for you': that you do not associate anything with Him; that you are good to your parents; that you do not kill your children because of poverty - We will provide for you and them; that you do not approach indecency - outward or inward; that you do not kill any person God has made inviolate - except with the right to do so. That is what He instructs you to do so that hopefully you will use your intellect. (Qur'an 6: 151)

'Those who act cruelly and unjustly in the sacred lands, those who yearn for the ways of the ignorant and those who wrongly shed human blood.' (Reported in Bukhari)

I really don't think he's protected under Islamic law or any law for that matter anymore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yes, I am

He was horrible, he violated civil and religious law...what people are doing is lowering themselves to the same level of this man.

And perhaps people should read the Christian doctrine they espouse to follow.

But if you can't see it, not my fault.

(Something about another cheek, I am sure you have read...and there are others)

[Live and Learn]

34. +1 nt

[MADem]

49. It depends entirely on the Imam's interpretation.

If Usama bin Ladin were alive and officiating at his burial, he'd be a "shaheed"--a martyr in the jihad against the evil forces of Amrika. He and others of his mindset (i.e. terrorists) would say that, per the Qu'ran, that "Suspect Number One" had "the right" to kill all those innocent people.

Islam is a very localized religion, with regional elements and standards. Here in USA, Muslims are, by and large, more modern and use context in their decision-making. You are unlikely to find an Imam in USA who would ever believe that Tamerlan's actions were justified. You might find one elsewhere, though.

[sabrina 1]

38. I agree, Nadin. But don't expect many to understand. We have sunk to such a low level

here in the US that even the old methods of decency once an enemy is dead, no longer apply. What a totally rotten society we have become.

[sad-cafe]

95. okay Ms. perfect knower of all things

make your mark in the world using your expertise and solve the problem!

[MNBrewer]

97. WHo fucking cares?

So is buttfucking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. Those of us who get it

We are looking like barbarians right about now.

You have given way too much power to some rotting flesh...Tamerlan Tsarnaev is not there...that s a dead body...but in the meantime...you are giving that power to it.

And who cares? You should. This just creates more unnecessary hate

[Aerows]

32. I don't give a rat's ass what happens to him

His actions harmed countless people and if he ends up cremated or in an unmarked grave, I could give two shits.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Well, there is this thing about decency

International law we are signatories to, and long standing traditions. Some go so far back as before the US was formed...they are codified in religious texts, in fact both the Bible and the Q'uoran, and civil tradition.

This speaks volumes of the vengeful, failed state we have become.

[Aerows]

46. Well, thankfully not everyone is like me

That was an absolute horror what happened in Boston, and thankfully I'm not in charge with my horrible human emotions that remember dead and wounded children, and men and women that were irrevocably changed.

Sorry I'm not perfect enough to get over it so quickly and wish well for the person that orchestrated such a horrific event. And I don't mean that in snark, it's just the way I feel about the whole situation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Nobody is wishing well

Just bury him already...in an unmarked grave due to those feelings.

[Aerows]

48. Agreed, bury him

and let the healing begin.

[Katashi_itto]

78. Dude, dude, be civil, there are countless drainage ditches we could at least roll him into.

[MADem]

44. Great idea--NOT. That's the stupidest and most short-sighted thing possible to do.

If you want to give Muslims an excuse to find offense, cremating the corpse--which is prohibited in Islamic practice--would give them just the material they need to paint us as boorish assholes.

If you want to incite more violence, that's a dandy plan.

[Jim Lane]

59. Glad to see someone with a bit of common sense.

Some DUers don't care one bit about decency? They would, in dealing with these depraved killers, descend to their level? That's deeply disappointing but not completely surprising.

If you don't care about decency, though, how about applying a little pragmatism. Cremation of Tsarnaev would become a new grievance for radical Muslims to trumpet in their ceaseless propaganda war against the United States. If it helps them recruit even one new jihadist, that new recruit might be the one who fires the shot or sets off the bomb that kills an American in Kabul -- or in Cleveland. Do you want some innocent person to die as a result of your bloodlust? If you agree that such a needless killing would be a bad outcome, then hold off on the war whoops for cremating Tsarnaev. Leave that to Rush Limbaugh and his ilk.

[MineralMan]

8. Cremate him, whether or not the family likes it.

For Pete's sake.

[MADem]

62. The entire Islamic world wouldn't like it.

That's the same as saying "Go on and desecrate the corpse."

Islamic burial practices are ENTIRELY religious in nature. Even delay of burial is considered haram.

[MineralMan]

84. I'm aware of Islamic burial preferences.

They do not override anything. I am an atheist, and don't much care about burial preferences held by any religion.

What we have here is a dead bomber. He no longer has a religion. He is dead.

[Jim Lane]

90. Respect all religions, believe in none, that's my motto.

My freedom is threatened by Islamofascists (to use the term so popular with right-wingers) and by Christofascists (the perfectly analogous term that the wingnuts just can't see). I don't want any of these religious zealots disrespecting my beliefs -- IOW, they're free to proselytize, but I don't want any of them to be able to dictate what I or anyone else does.

To be consistent, I must extend to them the same respect that I demand. So, yes, Tsarnaev's religious beliefs do override some things. The right of free exercise of religion, although not absolute, can even sometimes override laws of general applicability (as when the granting of conscientious objector status enabled religious pacifists to escape conscription during the Vietnam War era).

Protecting someone's free exercise after the person's death adds a new complication, but it's moot here, where Tsarnaev's surviving family are also all Muslims.

I shouldn't need to add, but probably do need to add, a disclaimer: As an agnostic, I recognize that most Muslims aren't Islamofascists and most Christians aren't Christofascists.

[MADem]

93. Very nicely articulated, Mister Jim Lane!!! nt

[MADem]

91. No one, not to be rude, in the Islamic world gives a sweet shit what you care about.

THEY don't believe what you believe, that he no longer has a religion. They believe that the burial ceremony is ENTIRELY religious and that delay of burial is a sin under Islamic law. They believe that desecration of a corpse by failing to bury it appropriately is a grave (not to be 'pun'ny) crime.

So, we've got YOU on the one hand, and a bunch of religious people -- many who might not agree with what this bomber did, but who still want him buried within the tenets of his faith--on the other. Some of those religious people will be very upset if this continues on for too much longer. You wanna go tell it like it is to them?

I can promise you, you won't convince them. Their view is that your misguided "infidel" POV ensures you an afterlife of misery (to put it mildly), and you won't persuade them otherwise. They just don't care what you think, and there are more of them than you.

I hope the Denver offer can resolve this. If not, I think they need to cut to the chase and bury him at sea.

[Tom Ripley]

10. It is somewhat funny that cemeteries are afraid of negative associations

"We don't want anything to tarnish our lighthearted and fun filled image!"

[hrmjustin]

12. I think they are more afraid of vandalism.

[Mariana]

16. That's exactly what it is.

If he does find a cemetery, I pity the caretaker who has to maintain the site.

[Tom Ripley]

18. I think you're right, but I don't understand why it just can't be done in secret

It would be merely an anonymous hole in the ground.

I'm honestly surprised that some grandstander hasn't demanded that his head be cut off and his remains buried at a crossroads.

[hrmjustin]

19. It would eventual leak out and the spot would be found.

It is just easier to say no.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. There are places that have unmarked graves

Used for this purpose.

He is far from the worst ever in this country.

[hrmjustin]

22. As I said it is just easier to say no.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. And to look like vengeful

Idiots who can't deal with the other. To me this speaks volumes

[hrmjustin]

25. Remember these people get money from new customers and patrons.

They are having a hard time getting money now because people are going with cremation and cemeteries are running out of space. To them it is a financial decision.
My guess they are going to have consider burial at sea. Maybe they may find a cemetery to do it but burial at sea or back in Russia is becoming more likely.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. They got contracts with the state for indigent and criminal burials

He fits both, ok the second he was never convicted. But in the minds of many he is guilty. I am serious, this is about the other. Gacy was worst in many ways, he was buried after execution...this is because he is a Muslim.

Oh and burial at sea is against Muslim law as well.

The state will have to...but this speaks about the US...a lot. And I will add, not in a good way.

[hrmjustin]

28. You have a good point on that one.

The state does have spots available and can just put him there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. They are with these private places.

Or prison plots...

[MADem]

37. Burial at sea is NOT against "Muslim law."

It is prescribed when the body might be abused, or dug up by animals.

It's not a first choice, but there are provisions in Islamic law for burial at sea.

What is prohibited is cremation.

[pintobean]

35. "He plans to keep searching for a Muslim burial site for the young man"

Exactly who looks like vengeful idiots? The faith he claimed to be part of doesn't want his body, and good for them.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/burial-ground-tamerlan-tsarnaev-easy-find-article-1.1334695

[scarletwoman]

13. I don't understand why they don't just ship the body to one of his parents in Russia

and let them arrange the burial.

He's not a U.S. citizen, his parents have said they have no intention of returning here, it seems like a no-brainer to simply send the body "home".

I'm sure there's enough money in the Homeland Security or State Department budgets to cover the cost.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. C.O.D.

cash on the barrelhead, no IOU's, credit, or debit cards.

[ananda]

14. Then cremate.

..

[The Straight Story]

23. Bury his ass in my yard, I will charge people to piss on his grave

[Aerows]

36. No kidding! n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Lovely, on both of you...

Really.

[Aerows]

42. I know I should be better than that

but I can't get that picture out of my mind of that young man with his legs blown off. I can't seem to summon much compassion yet for the asshole that did it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. I have seen that in the flesh

I will repeat to you what a homicide detective told me decades ago...you are giving. Tamerlan the kind of power you are not realizing, and selling your soul in the process.

Yup, paraphrasing here...

This is not about him...he is dead, cold, he won't hurt a soul ever again...it's about you.

[RC]

29. Nobody has a spare wood shipper for rent?

[Warpy]

31. They will have to bury him at sea

I'm afraid no cemetery is going to want to become trampled by tourists and vandalized by souvenir hunters.

[moondust]

80. +1

Rent a boat and take the body out into international waters.

[cynatnite]

39. This is stupid. The man is dead. Just bury him already and move on. n/t

[cali]

50. +1. exactly. well and succinctly said.

[Inspired]

52. Exactly! Just do it, quietly.

He doesn't deserve all this drama.

[bike man]

53. Some states have provisions for burial at home, depending on the size of the lot available.

Maybe they should keep the remains at home.

[MADem]

64. Well, the deceased lived in a third floor rental.

His wife is staying with her parents, who are selling their home.

That leaves the uncle, who is living in an upscale suburb of metro DC, in MD, I think. I kinda don't think that's in the association by-laws.

If they can't find a place for him soon, I think the fall back plan might have to be either shipping him home or burying him at sea. I think the latter is the best solution, given the situation.

[bike man]

67. All that is probably why "...depending on the size of the lot..." is important.

Some states have a two acre minimum, others vary. If it doesn't apply, it isn't an option - unless there are other relatives and/or friends who have the space and are willing to have the remains in the yard.

[MADem]

82. I can understand why an Islamic cemetery doesn't want him.

Even if they took him, they'd have to bury him in the "bad Muslim/Infidel" way (left side/facing away from Meccah)--so what's the point?

Burial at sea is the way to go, IMO--unless they want to ship him home and let his tomb become a martyr's pilgrimage spot.

[davidn3600]

54. There are protesters in front of the funeral home

Seriously over all the things you can be protesting about and they choose to protest a dead guy at a funeral home?

Stupid idiots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. They have chosen to give Tamernan

A power Tamernan did not expect to have.

Hate is a powerful emotion. They don't get it, but they are starting down the same path the two Tsanaev's brothers went down.

[Jamastiene]

75. Yeah, I agree with you on that.

There is no productive or good reason to picket or protest a funeral home. It sounds like something the Phelps/Westboro Baptist Church would do. You stare at the abyss and it stares back.

If, as MADem said, burial at sea is acceptable in certain circumstances where a grave may be vandalized, and in order to avoid an international incident, burial at sea might be the best option...and don't tell anyone where at sea either. Don't want those who think of what he did as martyrdom to have access to a burial site or other location either. Either way, it will have to be kept from the public to avoid both the vandalism and the supporters/pro-terrorist groups from turning it into a circus.

[Jamastiene]

76. It always annoys me to no end when I see video clips of people chanting

USA! USA! like that. I don't know why, but I just can't get into that who thing. I don't think it is patriotism. It is something self absorbed and idiotic, imo.

[cynatnite]

60. It occured to me that this is torture for the family...

Not being allowed to bury him keeps them from moving on and keeps them from closure. It's got to be so painful for the family in addition to having to deal with his crimes. They're paying for his crimes which is tragic.

[Jim Lane]

61. I stand with my friend, Peter Stefan.

I got to know him after my father's death. Dad had worked at the Public Inebriate Program (later People in Peril as it expanded to handle drug addicts). The PiP shelter wasn't exactly popular with the neighbors in its Main South area in Worcester, but Peter Stefan, whose funeral home is nearby, was one of those who stood up for it. Both my father and my mother had their funeral services there.

From another article about this fracas:

Stefan is well-known in the Main South neighborhood as someone who will take in anyone in need of funeral services no matter who they are or how much money they have. He is well recognized for the work he did during the height of the AIDS epidemic when other funeral directors would not take in and help bury the bodies of of people who died after a battle with AIDS.

"I can't control the circumstances of someone's death, what they've done or how they died," said Stefan. "Back years ago back when the AIDS epidemic first started, nobody would take the AIDS people. I took them right from the beginning."

Stefan said he has helped pay for funerals for many poor families over the years and if he had to, he would help with Tsarnaev's funeral as well.

"I bury more poor people than anybody here in the entire state," said Stefan. "That's well known, and it's not a matter of money. Sometimes you do what you have to do. If everything was predicated on money there are a lot of things I wouldn't be doing." (from "Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev's funeral arrangements being made by Worcester's Graham Putnam and Mahoney Funeral Home")

My father and mother would both have been proud to know that the home that handled their services was sticking up for decent treatment for the most despised man in America.

[MADem]

63. I agree with you--I think the gentleman is a profile in courage. nt

[SoCalDem]

66. Cremate him..send his ashes to the prison his brother ends up sentenced to

bury the ashes there with the brother who killed him..

[HiPointDem]

68. send the body home to his parents, for godssake. i'm sure they want to bury him, & i'll bet we

are refusing to do that.

[LisaL]

70. "We" are NOT refusing to send body back to Russia.

His uncle, who has custody of the body, could do that if he wanted to.

[HiPointDem]

72. i'll bet we are.

[LisaL]

74. And you would lose that bet.

[LeftInTX]

86. Mr. Stefan is checking into this

He says he wants to make sure that a burial plot is available in Russia first.
He also said he has to check with the State Dept too.

(I don't know anything about this, or protocol involved, it is just something I read. )

[Nye Bevan]

71. Makes sense. Who would want to create a shrine to Jihad? (nt)

[backscatter712]

79. Unmarked grave in a pauper's or potters field.

His grave will either be enshrined, or vandalized, depending on where it is.

Deny them both, make sure he is forgotten. Dump his body in a pauper's grave, make sure the grave's unmarked.

[backscatter712]

81. ...Though I do admit the idea of cremating him...

...and giving his ashes back to his batshit jihadist mother in a pressure cooker makes me smile!

[mwrguy]

83. Bury him in a landfill

like the garbage that he is.

[Puzzledtraveller]

85. ^^^this^^^

[pintobean]

89. I thought the same thing

but, as a last resort. I'd prefer his body not be in American soil.

[LeftInTX]

87. This ordeal makes me wonder if the Medical Examiner should have held the body

until there were burial arrangements.

I feel bad for the funeral home.

[backscatter712]

88. Might want to ask this guy...

[datasuspect]

94. threads like this point to the lack of difference between DU (in some cases)

and newspaper comments sections.

that's not a good thing.

[MNBrewer]

96. He can be buried in my yard, i have a low spot in the back that needs filling

[orleans]

99. i would think a cemetery couldn't discriminate

i know they have rules about various grave markings (types of headstones, ground stones, etc) but to say "we don't like you, we don't want you" ?? this surprises me. i thought they were "open to the public."

i mean, a store, restaurant, gas station couldn't discriminate like that could they? so blatantly?