In the grand scheme of things, I am a nobody. Just an average person living in Ohio.

[Ninga]

But let me tell all of my DU peeps that this media and GOP political circus freak show barkers, are playing right into the hands of the Democrats and stabbing themselves in the foot with their mouths.

American voters of all ilks do not like piling on in any shape or form.

Voters are sitting in their homes quietly watching their TeeVee's wondering when the Catholic Church will be as up in arms about priests attacking young children as they are about women having birth control pills in their medicine cabinets.

Voters watched attacks on working people in Ohio and Wisconsin.

Voters watched attacks on Chrysler and Clint Eastwood.

Voters are watching as Indiana is fighting to make it a right to work state.

Voters are watching (or not) the horrible GOP primary fight with clown car candidates and are not impressed.

Lastly, Really? Are these voices on the TeeVee serious when they say that the Catholic Church will pull services from the hungry and poor because they don't want their employees to have access to birth control. Really? I say let the CC pull services and watch the backlash take place. It will be epic.

Each of these issues may or may not in themselves be a biggie to many voters, but collectively and with the drumbeat of shrill predictions of the fall of Obama coming from the TeeVee is having a piling on affect with voters. I smell trouble for the GOP.

[tavalon]

1. In the grand scheme of things,

you have a brain and aren't afraid to use it in a critical thinking capacity, so that makes you anything but average and hardly a nobody. You are far too rare these days - a person who thinks and asks thoughtful questions and most of all, expects reasonable answers to them.

That TeeVee thing, though, isn't planning on providing answers to your questions, though. Sorry.

[CTyankee]

2. Dr. Jeffrey Sachs put this in perspective today on MOrning Joe when he talked about the

dire effects on the world of overpopulation in the poorest of countries on the planet. That is another facet of the problem of "feeding the hungry, caring for the sick" that Catholic programs support.

All sides of this issue will have to be considered, IMO. You can't be for caring for the poor but neglecting the enormous problems when simple contraception is not provided.

[Firebrand Gary]

3. You make an interesting point.

I wonder how this is going to play out? We as Americans a very proud of our independence and freedom and do not take kindly to being treated as puppets, even from the Catholic church. When DC passed the civil unions bill, I recall the Church threatening to pull services to the poor as punishment. How cruel?

This will not play well considering all the other things that are going on. People are hurting and for the Church to hold the people as hostage as if they were Mitch McConnell and GOP it is a strategy that will surely backfire. Especially considering that the church refuses to hold their own child molesters accountable.

[DCKit]

4. The final step in the Catholic Church's campaign to make itself totally irrelevant.

I say "Have at it."

[Ninga]

5. I picture similar discussions taking place all over this country. Because the GOP is so arrogant

they have missed the fact that the many head-lining grabbing events of the past 6 months have resulted in a toxic cocktail that voters will not drink.

All the naysaying, the no votes, denying Richard Cordray his appointment, standing with the 1% instead of the rest of us.....

Watch Ohio closely. The anti-union bill was defeated by such a huge margin and more importantly, returned to the Democrat Party, the Reagan Rebublicans that were once Democrats.

[Ikonoklast]

7. Sorry, there is no "Democrat" Party.

The use of that term is incorrect.

[Ninga]

8. Thanks.

[hfojvt]

6. it's always dangerous (in a truth sense) to project your own feelings onto the larger population

You see things one way, but how is it gonna play in Peoria (or Dayton)?

For myself, I don't agree with the Obama side on this. It does not make sense to me for health insurance to cover birth control. Does the public agree with me on this? I don't know. Even my own mom disagrees with me. That doesn't mean the larger public does or does not agree with me. (Although my mom is sort of a bellweather. She picked Kerry at the start of the 2004 primary. She picked Obama at the start of the 2008 primary, and also likes Biden. At least in those three cases a majority of voters agreed with my mom, and disagreed with me as I supported Clark, Dean, and Edwards.

Anyway, I think it is hard to tell how voters will react. It is more reliable to do a survey and ask them.

[Ninga]

10. Additionally, another view I have of the birth control pill and the Catholic Church imbroglio

is as follows.

If the Catholic Church accepts Federal funds for use in their businesses then they should abide by the law that states businesses need to provide health care coverage with no exceptions.

If they choose to not want to abide with the law, then as a moral component, they should not take Federal funds. Someone needs to tell the Bishop he can't have it both ways.

[frazzled]

12. And another view I have of the subject

Despite the cries of "constitutionality" and "freedom of religion," I see it through a different lens. If the government were to allow affiliates of the Catholic Church to deny benefits to non-Catholics in their employ, then this would be "establishment" of a religious view imposed on citizens of the nation.

In other words, why should the Catholic Church get to impose its beliefs--and thereby deny rights that other citizens have--on the Jewish professor at a Catholic university or the Protestant nurse's aide at a Catholic hospital or the Hindu computer analyst at a Catholic charity? (Substitute non-believer as well in any of those job descriptions.)

[Ninga]

13. As you point out,debate on this issue is multi-layered, and in my view, not favorable to the Church.

[hfojvt]

14. "the law" however, is up for debate

I would vote against it myself.

On another level, suppose I work for the Federal Government (as I once did). Because I am taking their money, does that thereby give them the right to dictate the rest of my life? I say it does not.

In somewhat the same way, the Catholic church gets federal funds in order to provide certain social services. The funds requrie them only to provide those services, they should not be used for extortion.

[frazzled]

15. How would the government be dictating your life in this case?

The Church would be dictating your life: saying you can't receive the same health-insurance that other American citizens are entitled to. The government isn't saying employees have to use contraception. It's saying employers (ANY employers, except churches themselves) must provide a base level of insurance to its employees.

[hfojvt]

16. like I want to receive that anyway

What the government is saying is that I have to pay for it, whether I need it or not, because I have to subsidize the people who want it. It is the government dictating that everybody has to pay that subsidy. To me, including birth control in health insurance is as absurd as including lawn mowing expenses in home owners insurance.

But I guess it is a popular idea with those who are getting the subsidy.

[Uncle Joe]

9. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Ninga.

[Ninga]

11. I appreciate it!