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merkins

(399 posts)
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 03:44 PM Feb 2012

Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy

Repulsive liberal hypocrisy extends far beyond the issue of Guantanamo. A core plank in the Democratic critique of the Bush/Cheney civil liberties assault was the notion that the President could do whatever he wants, in secret and with no checks, to anyone he accuses without trial of being a Terrorist – even including eavesdropping on their communications or detaining them without due process. But President Obama has not only done the same thing, but has gone much farther than mere eavesdropping or detention: he has asserted the power even to kill citizens without due process. As Bush’s own CIA and NSA chief Michael Hayden said this week about the Awlaki assassination: “We needed a court order to eavesdrop on him but we didn’t need a court order to kill him. Isn’t that something?” That is indeed “something,” as is the fact that Bush’s mere due-process-free eavesdropping on and detention of American citizens caused such liberal outrage, while Obama’s due-process-free execution of them has not.



Beyond that, Obama has used drones to kill Muslim children and innocent adults by the hundreds. He has refused to disclose his legal arguments for why he can do this or to justify the attacks in any way. He has even had rescuers and funeral mourners deliberately targeted. As Hayden said: ”Right now, there isn’t a government on the planet that agrees with our legal rationale for these operations, except for Afghanistan and maybe Israel.” But that is all perfectly fine with most American liberals now that their Party’s Leader is doing it.



Long before Barack Obama achieved any significance on the political scene, I considered blind leader loyalty one of the worst toxins in our political culture: it’s the very antithesis of what a healthy political system requires (and what a healthy mind would produce). One of the reasons I’ve written so much about the complete reversal of progressives on these issues (from pretending to be horrified by them when done under Bush to tolerating them or even supporting them when done by Obama) is precisely because it’s so remarkable to see these authoritarian follower traits manifest so vibrantly in the very same political movement — sophisticated, independent-minded, reality-based progressives — that believes it is above that, and that only primitive conservatives are plagued by such follower-mindlessness.



One of the most consequential aspects of the Obama legacy is that he has transformed what was once known as “right-wing shredding of the Constitution” into bipartisan consensus, and this is exactly what I mean. When one of the two major parties supports a certain policy and the other party pretends to oppose it — as happened with these radical War on Terror policies during the Bush years — then public opinion is divisive on the question, sharply split. But once the policy becomes the hallmark of both political parties, then public opinion becomes robust in support of it. That’s because people assume that if both political parties support a certain policy that it must be wise, and because policies that enjoy the status of bipartisan consensus are removed from the realm of mainstream challenge.

Full Article Here

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Repulsive Progressive Hypocrisy (Original Post) merkins Feb 2012 OP
Are you trying to pretend that BO is Progressive? I oppose the Vincardog Feb 2012 #1
The author confuses [in the first sentence no less] GeorgeGist Feb 2012 #2
And apparently you are inferring that we can't be both because Arkana Feb 2012 #3
I don't know about the eating part but plenty of very youg children have been killed Bandit Feb 2012 #13
I hear Obama also kicks puppies competitively for distance and accuracy! JoePhilly Feb 2012 #16
That is BS! He only drone attacks civilians and causes large amounts of Children to die. Dragonfli Feb 2012 #25
Everybody has to have a hobby. renie408 Feb 2012 #26
The one right before that landed on top of Willard Romney's car. /nt Saving Hawaii Feb 2012 #28
Jeez, poor Seamus just can't get a break...n/t renie408 Feb 2012 #30
Can the author name such 'hypocrites' or is this a strawman article. FarLeftFist Feb 2012 #4
you must not be familiar with Glenn Greenwald Enrique Feb 2012 #10
Two problems with such rhetoric kctim Feb 2012 #5
Must be a slow news day over at Salon. FarLeftFist Feb 2012 #6
Ooooh, just you wait! gratuitous Feb 2012 #7
I opposed all of the policies instituted by Bush and listed in this article. I still oppose all of sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #8
You act surprised abowsh Feb 2012 #11
Glenn Greenwald is an American national treasure. stockholmer Feb 2012 #9
Kick. Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #12
Obama:"If we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets denem Feb 2012 #14
I missed the part where he said that he'd take out rescue workers and innocents Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #17
Everybody knew what he meant it's not his fault you didn't listen close enough to what he didn't say Dragonfli Feb 2012 #31
Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad JoePhilly Feb 2012 #15
Yes, the reason why I protested similar actions by the Bush admin was that Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #18
I made no statement about what YOU did or did not protest. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #20
Never said that Obama is just like Bush.And you're right! Killing innocents is A-okay! Luminous Animal Feb 2012 #33
I protested them so Obama would look bad later!!! I was way smarter than Joe, he didn't Dragonfli Feb 2012 #24
LOL Aerows Feb 2012 #19
The counterarguments seem to boil down to . . . gratuitous Feb 2012 #21
Thank you. nt woo me with science Feb 2012 #27
Pretty Much /nt Dragonfli Feb 2012 #32
K & R pmorlan1 Feb 2012 #22
Repulsive ProSense Feb 2012 #23
that was years ago, the wars are over, he can stand in the glow of satisfaction of being right now Demonaut Feb 2012 #29
And we all know that Greenwald originally believed that Iraq was a theat. He deserves even sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #35
I'm voting for Obama in 2012 Zalatix Feb 2012 #34
Worse than that. We're getting into new wars, and a lot of liberals seem to like it. leveymg Feb 2012 #36
K & R woo me with science Feb 2012 #37
We Were Called Repulsive Today on David Sirota's Radio otohara Feb 2012 #38

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
1. Are you trying to pretend that BO is Progressive? I oppose the
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 03:48 PM
Feb 2012

illegal immoral acts and policies of every corporate enabler.

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
3. And apparently you are inferring that we can't be both because
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 05:40 PM
Feb 2012

Obama is an evil corporatist monster who eats kindergarteners.

Bandit

(21,475 posts)
13. I don't know about the eating part but plenty of very youg children have been killed
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:16 PM
Feb 2012

through the use of drones and collaterial damage......Women and children seem to be a large component of those being killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan....I personally do not understand the need to keep on a killing people over there. They are not in any fashion a threat to the USA...

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
16. I hear Obama also kicks puppies competitively for distance and accuracy!
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:41 PM
Feb 2012

This one went about 30 feet, did a flip, and then landed in a glass of water!!

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
25. That is BS! He only drone attacks civilians and causes large amounts of Children to die.
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 10:03 PM
Feb 2012

I think he likes pets more.
That is why he is so dreamy.

renie408

(9,854 posts)
26. Everybody has to have a hobby.
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 10:06 PM
Feb 2012

They are so good for reducing stress and you know being POTUS is a really stressful job. I hear after today he is going to skip the drones and just start shooting women and children with a marshmallow cannon.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
10. you must not be familiar with Glenn Greenwald
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:01 PM
Feb 2012

his articles are long and well documented, and he names names.

In this case he is talking about a poll result, so his hypocrites are liberals as a whole.

 

kctim

(3,575 posts)
5. Two problems with such rhetoric
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 05:45 PM
Feb 2012

1. President Obama is not a progressive.
2. Progressives do not support the President on this.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
7. Ooooh, just you wait!
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 05:50 PM
Feb 2012

It's about time for another one of those tiresome Gallup polls that show liberal Democrats support the Obama administration by eleventy-nine percent. That'll shut up you Billy Buzzkills! Everyone likes torture, and drone attacks, and extra-legal executions. Everyone that is but some dumb, smelly, dirty fucking hippies.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
8. I opposed all of the policies instituted by Bush and listed in this article. I still oppose all of
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 05:54 PM
Feb 2012

them but there has been a really disturbing silence from the Left on what they claimed was their moral objections to Bush's policies, since Democrats were elected in 2008.

Why is that? Where are those who were all over the internet, condemning the wars, the drone attacks, the spying on US citizens, and as for the killing of US citizens? Airc, the very suggestion that such a thing could even be contemplated was enough to produce days of rage from the left, and rightly so, imo.

But now there is a silence on all of this. I agree completely with this article. Which I'm sure someone will tell me makes me a traitor to the cause, or whatever. Something I got used to being told during the Bush years, although from the right.

Either we have principles and are willing to stand up for them, or we don't.

 

abowsh

(45 posts)
11. You act surprised
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:07 PM
Feb 2012

Welcome to a two party system. We have allowed the Democratic and Republican parties to control this country. The people have very little power anymore. Look at some of the congressional districts out there (the Illinois 5th comes to mind), political parties have abused the system to ensure their jobs.

People are absolutely hypocrites; because they aren't going to switch parties to support the opposition. This is how nations are destroyed; by slowly pushing what is acceptable. Gitmo and drone attacks were terrible under Bush and we said we wanted someone who would fix that. Well, Obama continued those policies and it has now become the norm. The next election will not provide us with the option to elect someone who will be against these wars and indefinite detention, it will give us Obama or someone who would be worse than both Bush and Obama. Listen to the crap from the right about terrorism; they have gone off the deep end. Some of the things that Santorum and Newt say about terrorism would have been crazy a decade ago. But because we have allowed endless war, indefinite detention, and other atrocities to become the norm, the crazy positions of the Republicans do not seem as crazy any more.

 

denem

(11,045 posts)
14. Obama:"If we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:31 PM
Feb 2012

and President Musharraf won't act, we will" August 1, 2007,
restated and reaffirmed throughout the Primary and Presidential campaigns.

Legal Basis: Authorization for Use of Military Force, September 18, 2001.
Public Law 107-40 [S. J. RES. 23],
an open ended authorization to use military force against members of al-Qaeda and the Afghan Taliban.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
15. Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:38 PM
Feb 2012

Media efforts to get dems to stay home net November will continue, particularly as Obama's numbers improve.

The media will continue to give voice to two totally opposite negative views on Obama, on every issue.

The media will elevate right wing pundits who scream that Obama is weak on terrorism ... and they will elevate left wing pundits who scream that Obama is "just like Bush".

The net effect is to get the right wing base to vote against Obama, and to get the left to STAY HOME.

The fact that BOTH positions are weak caricatures will not be the focus of the discussion. The media simply hopes that viewers will internalize one of these "Obama bad" memes. They do not care which one.

They lose ratings if the election is not close.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
18. Yes, the reason why I protested similar actions by the Bush admin was that
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:43 PM
Feb 2012

I was hoping to demoralize Bush supporters into staying home.

Hahahaha!

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
20. I made no statement about what YOU did or did not protest.
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:51 PM
Feb 2012

I gave my view of the ARTICLE and how it is positioned.

Obama removed us from Iraq, and is now drawing us down in Afghanistan. The article glosses over those differences from Bush and the GOP and pumps a false narrative that Obama is basically the SAME, and then goes on to make the case that those who continue to support Obama are hypocrites as a result.

Which is nonsense.

Do YOU think Obama is "just like Bush"??

If so, you should continue to protest. Personally, I find such a view to be ridiculous on its face, which is my right.

I agreed when Bush went into Afghanistan, did not agree with his going into Iraq. I knew Obama was going to increase troops levels in Afghanistan, and use drones while doing so ... this should not be a surprise to anyone who voted for Obama.

And yet the article wants to pretend this was a surprise. Again, its a caricature, and nonsense.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
33. Never said that Obama is just like Bush.And you're right! Killing innocents is A-okay!
Thu Feb 9, 2012, 02:10 AM
Feb 2012

Targeting rescue personnel is double plus good! Sending in weapons of war in countries where we have not declared war? Triple plus good because now the entire world is our battlefield.

Because Bush and the PNAC and our global overlords have declared that killing people every where around the world based on super-secret evidence that only are betters are privy too (we are too stupid to make our own assessment) is THE NEW AMERICAN IMPERIAL CENTURY!

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
24. I protested them so Obama would look bad later!!! I was way smarter than Joe, he didn't
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 09:59 PM
Feb 2012

catch on even tho I opposed attacks an civilians and other war crimes from 2001 all the way till he was elected.
I was so fucking clever no one caught on!

Obviously the reason I don't like these same policies from Obama is because I only liked it when bush did it.

Or something....

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
19. LOL
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:46 PM
Feb 2012

This is so ridiculous I won't reply with my thoughts, since I'd get thrown off the site for profanity. I assure you, it would be wonderful profuse profanity, insults and other terrible things, but it would make me feel better.

Or I could just hit the back button and dismiss it into the wilderness where it belongs and save myself the outrage .

<----

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
21. The counterarguments seem to boil down to . . .
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 08:10 PM
Feb 2012

It's okay when our guy does it.

And my response is, no it isn't. The President didn't take an oath to blow people to Kingdom Come on some dubious pretext of defending America or killing our enemies or some demagogic piece of legislation designed to provide a veneer of legitimacy to war crimes (or, if you prefer, crimes against humanity). The President's oath is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, for without the Constitution, there is no United States.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
23. Repulsive
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 08:48 PM
Feb 2012
Long before Barack Obama achieved any significance on the political scene, I considered blind leader loyalty one of the worst toxins in our political culture: it’s the very antithesis of what a healthy political system requires (and what a healthy mind would produce). One of the reasons I’ve written so much about the complete reversal of progressives on these issues (from pretending to be horrified by them when done under Bush to tolerating them or even supporting them when done by Obama) is precisely because it’s so remarkable to see these authoritarian follower traits manifest so vibrantly in the very same political movement — sophisticated, independent-minded, reality-based progressives — that believes it is above that, and that only primitive conservatives are plagued by such follower-mindlessness.

...Greenwald bullshit!

Wait, Greenwald's own epiphany about Iraq and Bush occurred in 2004-2005. Obama was elected in 2004.

Wow, Greenwald in a new light
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100297462

He has some fucking nerve scolding progressives!




Demonaut

(8,918 posts)
29. that was years ago, the wars are over, he can stand in the glow of satisfaction of being right now
Wed Feb 8, 2012, 11:10 PM
Feb 2012

and forget he loved the last pres and his righteous wars
and remember there is never collateral damage with conventional ground troops/wars
only the bad guys get hit

to be read with a heavy dose of sarcasm

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
35. And we all know that Greenwald originally believed that Iraq was a theat. He deserves even
Thu Feb 9, 2012, 02:39 AM
Feb 2012

more credit than those progressives he's talking about and rightly so, that as soon as he realized we had been lied to, he had the guts to come out and say so. Unlike other war supporters who even after they were told they were lied to, could not bring themselves to criticize Bush.

Progressives opposed every anti-Constitutional policy instituted by Bush. I never met a single progressive democrat throughout the Bush years who supported those policies. Not one.

Greenwald is 100% correct, any progressive who opposed Bush's policies and now is either silent about or supports the same policies under this president IS a hypocrite. However, I think he's wrong to think that anyone of us who once opposed those policies now support them. We do not.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
34. I'm voting for Obama in 2012
Thu Feb 9, 2012, 02:19 AM
Feb 2012

But in 2016 I am demanding a candidate who will repudiate the right wing war machine rather than emulate it, like Obama has done.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
36. Worse than that. We're getting into new wars, and a lot of liberals seem to like it.
Thu Feb 9, 2012, 02:45 AM
Feb 2012

Greenwald is right, tragically.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
38. We Were Called Repulsive Today on David Sirota's Radio
Thu Feb 9, 2012, 10:02 PM
Feb 2012

show.

As if we were all polled.
We're all pathetic.

I think Sirota's prep for his show must be reading Greenwald.

He's mean to callers who dare to disagree with him.

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