Why Bradley Manning deserves to rot in prison

[riqster]

http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/why-bradley-manning-deserves-to-rot-in-prison/

Snip: "Revealing the identities or identifying information of people who might suffer as a result of your revelations makes you at least partially culpable for what happens to them. Rot in jail, Mr. Manning, and may your days and nights be filled with the anguish of those you harmed."

Lots more at the link.

[monmouth3]

1. Unrec...n/t

[Eric J in MN]

2. Manning didn't publish anything.

He contacted the NY Times and Washington Post, who weren't interested, and then sent information to Wikileaks.

[cynatnite]

10. He didn't have to publish anything...he passed classified information. n/t

[Eric J in MN]

14. It was a lower-level of classified information than what Daniel Ellsberg passed on,

...and it's the responsibility of the publisher to edit.

[cynatnite]

21. It doesn't matter...

Classified information is still classified information. Passing it is illegal. Period.

[riqster]

24. There are some legal ways to blow a whistle

If he had followed them, he wouldn't be in trouble.

[cynatnite]

25. I thnk you're right...

With the right kind of help, he probably could have been able to pass some information on while still protecting himself at the same time. Had he been more selective of the information he shared or had gotten representation ahead of time, I think it's possible he wouldn't be facing what he's facing now.

[GoneFishin]

33. Bullshit. Rape victims in the military can't even get justice a lot of the time

because it is inconvenient and messy for the chain. There is no fucking way he would have gotten farther than the brig.

[riqster]

35. Wrong. He DID go to his superiors and did not wind up in the brig

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3390416

Had he followed the rest of the legal whistleblower process (report to Congresscritter, etc.) he would not be in court today.

[GoneFishin]

37. Thanks for the link. So he may be sent to prison for life based on a technicality,

and it is not "what he did", but "how he did it"?

I am not swayed.

My opinion is this is about hiding embarrassing, corrupt, and illegal behavior by us, our allies, and/or war contractors.

[riqster]

38. My opinion is that much of what he released

...had nothing to do with war crimes, and hurt a lot of people who were not committing war crimes.

And the hell of it is, because he exposed all the other info, the war crimes got lost in the noise.

He not only failed to do what he set out to do, but he caused harm to innocents in the process.

[GoneFishin]

39. I understand your point. As a practical matter I think none of these documents would see

daylight for 10 years or more if this route was followed, maybe never. Manning did what he did knowing there would be consequences. And thought it was important enough. It is what it is.

I don't know if anyone's life has been jeopardized yet. I do know that if we are going after people who have jeopardized lives there is a long line ahead of Manning who have skated free, even though we know their lies lead to (tens or hundreds of) thousands of deaths.

I don't dismiss the fact that Manning appears to have broken the law. I am just disgusted at the selective prosecution.

[riqster]

40. Roger on the selectivity

Lots of other people deserve to sit where Manning sits, and it is a crime all its own that they aren't.

[atreides1]

56. And it did no good, did it?

And there is no guarantee that taking it up the chain would have made any difference!

[riqster]

57. No, but he would have stayed out of court.

I imagine he would find that quite different.

[Octafish]

3. You are so wrong, it's sad.

Manning exposed war crimes and the people making money off war.

That's why he's in deep doo-doo.

[whatchamacallit]

4. You guys are so easy to spot

War crimes?
Document dumping? [URL=http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[redgreenandblue]

11. +1

[Puzzledtraveller]

12. Maybe it has something to do with who the Commander in Chief is today?

as opposed to who it is not now.

[boilerbabe]

5. "this blog is written by a radical centrist."

that's all anybody needs to know about that asshole.

[frylock]

42. bingo

[riqster]

50. Being an asshole doesn't make me wrong.

But hey, it's easier to lug a flame bomb at me than to refute my point, innit?

I own my asshole-ish tendencies: in fact I have quite a few, so pointing them out required very little perception or effort on either of your parts.

How about making a valid counterargument?

[frylock]

51. being wrong makes you wrong..

the fact that you label yourself as an extreme centrist makes it easier for us to identify why it is that you're wrong.

[riqster]

54. So, no counter argument I guess?

Since all you did here was throw another (albeit smaller) flame bomb.

[frylock]

58. Daniel Ellsberg has made the argument for me..

not going to indulge your ego by rehashing it.

[riqster]

62. Ego, schmego.

I asked for substance, and you returned with insult number three, and nothing related to the topic.I can only assume you have nothing else to offer but Limbaugh-esque attacks, since that is all you have offered here.

I have read Mr. Ellsberg's writings on the topic, and although I have great respect for the man, I feel that what he did was far more focused and less damaging to those not directly involved with the matters he was blowing the whistle on (I am old enough to have read The Pentagon Papers when they came out, and I know the difference between the two cases).

Specifically, Ellsberg did not get any, say, Chinese Ethnic activists arrested because he randomly released a load of unrelated content. The material he put out was relevant and focused.

Unlike Manning.

[cynatnite]

6. Dick Cheney passed classified information and he will never be tried for it...

Bradley Manning passed classified information and he was jailed. He will probably serve many years in prison.

[riqster]

18. Cheney, Rove, Libby and Bush should ALL be doing time.

The fact that those bastards got off scot-free doesn't mean everyone else should too.

[cynatnite]

20. Agreed...

I should have clarified that. Thanks.

[riqster]

22. No worries

It's a passion-inducing topic.

[randome]

7. He deserves to be convicted.

But I think some leniency should be shown. He was clearly a very mixed-up kid what with his gender identity issues. And his superiors should have been aware of his state of mind and were, IMO, negligent.

Despite that, you're right, he did endanger many innocent people and perhaps caused some to lose their lives.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[riqster]

9. Agreed on all points

Some people were (hell, some still are) calling for the death penalty. Absurd.

Prison is an appropriate punishment. Who knows, maybe he can learn from his experience and use his intellect for good in the future.

[Eric J in MN]

16. If there was evidence that Manning caused anyone to die, the government would be shouting about it.

He didn't cost any lives.

[randome]

19. Hundreds of informants' names were listed.

The Taliban got hold of the data and vowed vengeance on those individuals. What are the odds that some of these compromised assets did NOT lose their lives?

As for the government telling us, I would think being an undercover spy means total disavowal of one's existence as a spy.

Much of Manning's trial is being held in secret. If the prosecutors need to name names, that would be a good time to do it.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[riqster]

30. Those who defended the outers of Ms. Plame

Said similar things about those she worked with in Iran.

[GoneFishin]

34. Uh. Uh. We are looking forward, not backward now.

[riqster]

36. Don't get me started on THAT Obama fuckup.

What a colossal mistake that was.

[arthritisR_US]

32. No proof has surfaced that his revelations caused

a loss of life. At this point it is a hyperbolic talking point, IMO.

[riqster]

49. So if people were only imprisoned, harassed or tortured, it's OK?

If harm only = death, then very few human actions could be classed as such.

But of course, harm has a broader meaning.

[arthritisR_US]

52. At this point there is no evidence that anyone

was imprisoned, harassed or tortured because of his disclosures, take it how you will.

[riqster]

55. The blog post in the OP has links to

Articles from Amnesty and others that say otherwise.

[arthritisR_US]

60. I haven't heard anything in the media about that.

[riqster]

61. Did you look, or just passively accept what is handed you?

Keep in mind, this case goes back to 2011. That is why I provided links on the blog post, so people could remember.

All you hear these days is the meta issue: but there are concrete issues in play too. Issues like exposure and harassment are well documented from that time.

[burnodo]

8. I hope this person has Verizon

So that the same government he's defending can monitor his calls and texts

[riqster]

13. Nope, but that hardly matters.

Anyone doing anything via print or electronic media can be monitored. Your carrier of choice makes little difference.

And I'm not defending the government- I am talking about Manning and the harm he caused by the indiscriminate way he leaked.

[frylock]

43. do you have documented evidence of this harm he caused?

[riqster]

44. Go to the blog post linked in the OP

And follow the links there.

Or just google if you prefer. It is not hard to find stories on how Amnesty and other groups documented harm caused by the leaks for which Manning provided the source material.

Took me less than ten minutes to find the three I used and cross-check them.

[ananda]

15. Manning should be lauded as a good hero citizen!

..

[sibelian]

17. This "chain of responsibility" perspective

is usually employed rather selectively, I have noticed...

[William769]

23. Major fail.

[G_j]

26. War is Peace

w liberty and just-us for the lying chickenhawk war criminals.

[riqster]

27. The fact that Darth Cheney and his posse have thus far escaped justice

...does not let other offenders off the hook.

[G_j]

28. It's shameful

how our monumental hypocrisy is once again on display for the entire world to see!

disgusting

[riqster]

41. Agreed nt

[Rise Rebel Resist]

31. what is this shite

3 years later and no harm done except to BM

[NaturalHigh]

45. Good luck Riqster.

I agree with you completely, but I know from experience that you're going to bet blistered by the flame war on this.

[riqster]

46. Asbestos y-fronts, never post without 'em on.

I figured arguing a contrarian position might have such results, so I came prepared.

[NaturalHigh]

47. Lol...glad to hear it.

[riqster]

48. Sorry if that was TMI

[LanternWaste]

53. I like to pretend I'm clever enough to determine who may or may not deserve a thing also.

Sometimes, I like to pretend I'm clever enough to determine who may or may not deserve a thing also.

[Major Hogwash]

59. Hahahaha!!! I always get my best joke material from "blunt and cranky" blog!!

My gawd they are funny, they're almost insane!!!