General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMeet the Carnivore system
Before the Subcommittee on the Constitution
of the Committee on the Judiciary
United States House of Representatives
The Fourth Amendment and Carnivore
July 28, 2000
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) would like to submit comments to be included for the record regarding the Fourth Amendment and the issues raised by the FBI's Carnivore system.
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The Carnivore system has received a lot of press recently, but the FBI has not been forthcoming about how the Carnivore system actually works. Civil liberties groups have often been quoted as noting that Carnivore is a "black box" leaving us to guess at its inner workings.
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Second, analogizing pen register information from a traditional land-line phone system to the Internet is incorrect. The Carnivore system likely can capture content as well as numbers. Email addresses for example are personal to an individual rather than to a particular household. We don't know for sure, but it is possible that Carnivore has access to the subject line information of email messages. Subject lines are content. For example, "leaving work at 5pm today - meet me at the bus stop", contains a lot of information about travel plans of a target on a particular day. Carnivore can also track other content information such as the URLs of web sites visited. Seeing the URLs not only give routing information but content as well. For example, someone visiting www.eff.org could presumably be interested in civil liberties issues online.
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Currently, there is little if any public oversight over the FBI's use of its Carnivore system. The FBI has not allowed the ISP to inspect the device, nor have any of the advocacy groups been allowed to examine it. In fact, the ACLU has had to resort to filing a FOIA request to try to get at the source code. Allowing the FBI to install and use a device such as this unchecked by any public oversight, threatens the openness we enjoy and expect in our society. Robert Corn-Revere, in his testimony, noted that his case is sealed. We can't even look to that for guidance.
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http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Carnivore/20000728_eff_house_carnivore.html
By Margret Johnston, PCWorld
Oct 20, 2000 7:00 AM
The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation is still developing its Carnivore Internet surveillance tool, according to FBI documents obtained by the Electronic Privacy Information Center through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.
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EPIC filed the FOIA lawsuit after the FBI earlier this year revealed the existence of Carnivore. The lawsuit seeks the public release of all FBI records concerning Carnivore, including the source code, other technical details, and legal analyses addressing the potential privacy implications of the technology. The source code of the Carnivore system was withheld in the first batch of documents (see "Does Carnivore Eat Privacy Rights?" .
Carnivore has outraged not only EPIC, but also the American Civil Liberties Union and some members of Congress. The FBI has used it in at least 25 criminal and national security investigations, according to the FBI, which maintains the system is legal.
The documents in EPIC's hands also confirm that Carnivore was conceived under the name Omnivore in February 1997. It was proposed originally for a Solaris X86 computer. Omnivore was replaced by Carnivore running on a Windows NT-based computer in June 1999. Other parts of the documents include reviews of tests for performance, and recovery from attacks and crashes for both Omnivore and Carnivore. Carnivore consists of a PC running Windows and proprietary software.
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http://www.pcworld.com/article/32664/article.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)#Controversy
Abandoned in 2001, shortly before Bush launched his illegal wiretapping program.
For the Republican opportunists, Bush actually spied on people.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022959557
HELLO WORLD! George W. Bush illegally spied on American citizens. Read all about it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022963663
Why The NSAs Secret Online Surveillance Should Scare You
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/07/2120141/why-the-nsas-secret-online-surveillance-should-scare-you/
This whole NSA story is nothing more than recycled outrage. Glenn Greenwald didn't break shit.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022967844
What can we all agree on?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022969079
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)"...and this makes what's happening NOW better?"
...that's exactly the point. I mean, I posted this just so you could post that response. It's actually my fault that you responded that way.
Why The NSAs Secret Online Surveillance Should Scare You
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/06/07/2120141/why-the-nsas-secret-online-surveillance-should-scare-you/
Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)You made statement A, and I stated my opinion - an opinion held long before you were a DUer.
longship
(40,416 posts)Just the usual types of resources ProSense always posts in these forums.
In fact, some of the links contradict the opinions of others, which is indicative of somebody who is providing information for information's sake.
Isn't that what DU is about?
Maybe I don't understand your responses here. If so, I apologize.
Myself I find ProSense posts useful because there are always links to related information, some from DU, and some from outside. I don't see that as a bad deal either. Certainly makes things easy for those of us with limited resources.
ProSense puts some work into that. I appreciate it.
Thanks for your time.