Interesting...no one's talking about gun regulation anymore...

[Avalux]

or climate change...

Whether or not this latest HUGE BREAKING SCANDAL is really truly what any of us think we've been told - the disclosed information sure has been used to manipulate us into tearing each other apart.

[Just Saying]

1. True

I'd much rather talk about either of those things.

[NightWatcher]

2. You want a million gun threads that go nowhere?

Thanks but no thanks.

[Eleanors38]

9. I, for one, would rather see gun issues back in the two groups assigned them.

[Avalux]

15. My post isn't about guns.

It's about the latest, greatest issue that can be twisted around to manipulate us (thanks to the media's failure to inform and our short attention spans).

Chaos among the masses is an effective means of control, and they just keep throwing it at us.

[Eleanors38]

38. My post was responding to someone else...

I agree with the media manipulation. The old MSM is decaying, and have lost or ceded the ability to "enforce" some kind of ethical standard, or to see down the road to bigger issues. They are now in a scramble like any other web site. I would add something to your "short attention spans." There is an overriding belief of many people: "My views are just as good as your views, and I don't have to explain it." This suggests an aggressive approach to being ignorant or uninformed, and levels the playing field to nothing more than hot sand filled with sand spurs. Who even wants to cross that desert when you can get one scandal after another and ain't NO ONE gonna say different. And local news is Investigations into How Cats are treated at Shelters, or some such crap.

I would note that DU is becoming so Balkanized that many are refusing to post in discussions lest some High Priest of Progressivism (often known as trolls) call them right-wingers, freepers, NRA sock puppets, anti ___________, Holocaust Deniers (or the equivalent), or..... trolls. And once you are tagged, you are tagged.

[dkf]

3. Going down the road of the authoritarian state blows away all other concerns.

[galileoreloaded]

10. well said nt

[Loudly]

28. Is Japan an authoritarian state?

Then fine.

Turning Japanese I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.

[dkf]

30. This is about the Authoritarian Surveillance State, not gun laws.

[Loudly]

33. The convergence of the conversations is not lost on me.

Compartmentalize as some might.

[onehandle]

40. We can address this and gun nuts plus climate change, simultaneously. nt

[onehandle]

4. Just a pause. The fight against gun nuttery has just started. nt

[FarCenter]

5. The left anarchists have decided that the right libertarians were right.

The gubmint is out to get us.

[graham4anything]

21. I said something like that...which is where the 80-20 come in. The 80 will win the war, though

though like all wars, battles are lost.

But the war will be won.

BTW, speaking of climate control, Mike Bloomberg presented a helleva great idea today to protect NYC from what happened in
Sandy in the future, pledging hundreds of millions .

Yet, didn't see one post on it

It is truly an amazing idea.

[Decoy of Fenris]

26. Possibly because Bloomers is a right-winger. n/t

[graham4anything]

32. only to the NRA folk. BTW, good to see all the people I used to debate back when there was only

one gun area, before there was 2.(pro and con)

How are you all doing?
Hope you all personally are doing well.

[Decoy of Fenris]

37. Yeah, because endorsing Bush and ending unions isn't right wing... n/t

We, to my knowledge, are all doing quite well. Outside of the occasional Clubhouse troll that sneaks in solely to disrupt, we've been relaxing. I've had a few PM conversations with some of the regulars, talking shop, standard fare for any other group, really. Nothing special. And no one's been shot yet! Imagine that.

[frylock]

42. civil libertarians have now shifted over to the radical anarchist spectrum..

seems Sensible.

[Decoy of Fenris]

6. To be honest, I just think people don't care.

Even after Sandy Hook, most of the people around where I live knew only one thing would come of it; a rush on guns. So they got in on it. Now they're actively campaigning against current gun control laws; Sure, kids died, but now the "gubmint" was coming after them, -personally-. The minute it started to affect them personally, the dead kids were forgotten and buried.

Climate change? That's something that just doesn't really hit in someone's backyard all that often, and even when it does, it's explained away quickly (Improperly and stupidly, but quickly). It's not immediately noticeable. Therefore, it doesn't affect people -personally-, and so they don't care.


However, the NSA thing has the -potential- to harm us all, and it harms us all in a (believably) direct and volatile way; our personal information is being violated. Therefore, it must be rejected out of hand. I think that's the only reason the NSA thing is getting the traction that it is; it has the perceived potential to directly contravene what the average, low-information citizen thinks America stands for, and therefore, it must be opposed.

[Avalux]

11. But how do we know the truth about the scandal?

So much is confusing at this point yet we are all taking sides and arguing amongst each other - we're being manipulated by it. Who wins in that scenario?

[Decoy of Fenris]

17. You have your answer, right there in your question.

Who wins from us all scrambling to tear each other apart? Those who have power; so long as the ignorant masses remain semi-intelligent but otherwise ignorant and placid, those who control power will continue to be able to act without a tangible threat to said power.

Your OP is correct, but is keeping the scale too limited in scope; Yes, the petty issues have been forgotten by all but a few, but so have many larger things. Distraction and misdirection are the premiere elements in keeping compliance in times of government turmoil.

[Avalux]

22. Your last sentence is perfect.

I agree completely.

[galileoreloaded]

13. and i think common sense says that gun restrictions dont have a tangible cause/effect

to dead anybodys. while it was cool to be a hater, there were haters. haters though, aren't voters in any large numbers.

[Decoy of Fenris]

20. Can't say I really understand what you're getting at, mate.

Sorry, can you rephrase that?

[galileoreloaded]

24. nobody really cares except the extremely fearful nt

[Decoy of Fenris]

25. I must offer my sincere apologies.

While I agree with your sentiment, I'm finding it hard to follow your thought process. I blame this on a slight lack of sleep, and so I beg your forgiveness in being unable to continue in dialogue with you at this present time. I will say that I think we're on the same track, just different trains, so to speak.

Have a wonderful evening, mate.

[Eleanors38]

7. We've gone from NRA TalkingPoints to NSA TalkingPoints. nt

[Tx4obama]

8. Here ya go...

DU OP here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014505606

[Avalux]

12. Wow. They sure are clever little devils. n/t

[graham4anything]

14. But of course, it was always the guns and immigration for all the smears (all now debunked).

But, all democratic voters (the core voters) are not stupid, nor are they divided.

and like that old movie, they will think of a brick wall til the election and then all the extremists will be in the minority
and then will all the things go on.

This was proof that Jeb Bush and Rand and Ron are united as team players, which ALL democratic voters need to repudiate
and render obsolete in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016.

[Avalux]

19. I hope you're right about not being stupid. n/t

[Decoy of Fenris]

23. Erm... About that...

The neolib radicals are driving the normal-left Dems away from the gun control issue. Already there's talk about repealing some of the brand spanking new gun control laws, and movements to take preventative action -against- gun control in the future in other states.


There are stupid folks in both parties. Unfortunately, the Republican stupids are the benchmark for the rest of the party, while the Dem stupids just alienate the rest of us. The neolib fanatics here are the only reason I don't fight for gun control, myself.

[Avalux]

29. I've long held the belief that the smarter of us outnumber the stupid.

But lately, I'm beginning to consider that those numbers are shifting. We are regressing and allowing fear and irrational thought to consume us.

[Decoy of Fenris]

34. Of course.

We're top of the food chain, no natural predators to sort the strong from the weak, and the weak (or weak minded, such is the case) are far more likely to breed thanks to society's protections, producing more naturally "simple" folks. It's a pitfall of society, and I think we're in that doldrum state between government being a democratic state and an autocratic state. To be blunt, the average sum of society cannot intelligently elect a competent government capable of selflessly serving the governed, as we are seeing in the past decade or three.

[Eleanors38]

39. It doesn't take a majority....

When I taught government, I asked my students: "Put a hundred people in a room, lock the doors and bar the windows. Now, how many folks are required to take over?"

They started at 51.

Then went to 30 or so.

Then went to 25.

Then below 20.

I don't think they had a lack of faith in democracy or "smartness." They had a lack of faith in themselves. One thing is for sure: The Far Right WILL continue to double, even triple down. It's self-stated aim is Permanent Power. And their numbers are well "below 20."

BTW, the much-touted enlightened qualities of sound reasoning and tolerance progressives are supposed to have are increasing in tatters, right here on D.U.

[graham4anything]

35. battles are lost, wars later are won.

and I know, you do believe that NYC should set the standard in the Cornyn amendment correct?

[Decoy of Fenris]

36. Battles win wars. Wars without winning battles are lost wars.

And I have little knowledge and no personal opinion on the Cornyn amendment. Being under educated and generally ignorant, I will post no opinion on it.

[Loudly]

16. Heaven forbid that the government becomes so intrusive

that we are prevented from shooting each other for whatever goddamned reason we subjectively think justifies it.

[Avalux]

27. If we're doing it to ourselves, they don't have to lift a finger.

All the while, stealing everything we have.

It reminds me of when I was a kid, sitting at the breakfast table on Sunday morning, one piece of bacon left on the plate. My Dad and I would always fight over it, and he'd try to trick me by pointing outside and getting me to look, so he could swipe it. It only worked once, after which he looked at me and said "Don't let anyone ever steal your bacon".

[Loudly]

31. My Dad deferred and said Clean Em Up.

And I usually did.

[BainsBane]

18. Not true

at all.

[Andy823]

41. Lots of things not being talked about.

Gun control, immigration, jobs, fixing the sequester, rebuilding worn out infrastructure, etc. and most of all not talk about how republicans are infighting over all the "real" issues so nothing can happen until we get rid of them in 2014, which is the main reason all this other BS is going with scandal after scandal being pushed by the MSM to keep or minds off everything else!

[BainsBane]

43. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022997540