A quote from Michael Hastings.

[trumad]

But there's a more insidious response most of the time when you piss off the powerful. They come after your career, they try to come after your credibility. They do cocktail party whisper campaigns. They try to make you "controversial." Sadly, The Powers That Be are often aided by other journalists.

----Michael Hastings

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Hmmmm. That all comes w. the territory, seems to me.

If that's ALL they do.... I can live w. it.

[Hissyspit]

2. You're an investigative journalist, are you?

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. Nope. Just a citizen. n/t

[Hissyspit]

8. So you can live with them coming after

an investigative journalist's career because there's no risk to you?

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. Define "coming after".

He describes is as "coming after his credibility". You're subtly changing the meaning of the quote.

That's pretty much what we do in a democracy, isn't it? god knows we do it here: we challenge the "credibility" of people with whom we disagree.

You just came THIS close to doing it yourself: "Are you an investigative journalist?" The implication being I have no "credibility" ( or limited credibility) if I answer no.


>>>an investigative journalist's career>>>>>

That's more problematic. It depends on HOW that's done. I wish Rush Limbaugh's career would end. If I can encourage someone not to listen to his show or buy his sponsors products, I do so to hasten that end. OTOH, I wouldn't approve of the gov't targeting him for surveilance, harassment, intimidation, IRS scrutiny etc .

QUEMONGOUS difference. No?

[Civilization2]

21. You do know Michael Hastings is now DEAD right?

It seem the "coming after" can go a little further than "challenge the "credibility" of people with whom we disagree",. .

also, attacking someone personally for their reporting is not above the board it is dastardly.

[okaawhatever]

22. Are you suggesting Hastings was murdered? Possibly by our government or gov't operators?

[Smarmie Doofus]

31. Of course I know he's dead. You do realize that I'm talking about the *quote* in the OP?

HASTING'S said they " come after your credibility." *Hastings* said it. "Credibility."

He did not say... IN THE QUOTE IN THE OP... that he was being harassed by FBI.

He said that later apparently; I'm inclined strongly to believe that that's true.

But that's not what he was talking about in the OP. I'm addressing what he was talking about in the OP.

>>>>, attacking someone personally for their reporting is not above the board it is dastardly.>>>

If you're talking about people disparaging other people at cocktail parties ( as apparently Hastings was):

dastardly it may be but my guess is it is quite the norm. ( Maybe someone will invite me to one someday and I'll find out for sure.) I'm sure some journalists... esp... up and comers ( Hasting's was in his 20's when he did his most important work.) might not think this is always such a bad thing. Better than not being noticed at all; writers/journailists like Vidal/Capote/Mailer lived for this kind of thing.

I hope you understand that I am not disrespecting Mr. Hasting's or trivializing his career or the suspicious nature of his death.

[nashville_brook]

3. yeah, weil 99.9% can't "live with it" and choose the easier route of stenography

in order to maintain careers in the field. heroics are required to not to fall into the cocktail party mainstream.

Hastings was part of that .1% who wasn't willing to play that game, and we lost a true journo-hero when we lost him.

[Smarmie Doofus]

14. I do not disagree in the least:

"Hastings was part of that .1% who wasn't willing to play that game, and we lost a true journo-hero when we lost him."

I'm merely saying that the phenomena he describes in the quote is a predictable... and as far as I can tell... completely legal response of TPTB to criticism of any kind in any setting.

They're going to say bad things about him at cocktail parties? Come on! That's a surprise? Really?!?

What I worry about is illegal or illegitimate use of tactics by government officials or their affiliates to PUNISH Hastings or anyone else who engages in that kind of high stakes ... and utterly indispensable investigative journalism. That would include improper surveilance and investigation by FBI ( or any other gov't investigative bureaucracy) ... of the kind that Hastings apparently believed was happening to him before his.... accident; Use of IRS as an enforcement tool; COINTELPRO -type stuff;hi-tech, targeted surveilance. I'll spare you the rest: we know what they do.

It's important that we recognize the difference. One involves abuse of powers; the other Beltway Bigshot Poutrage. They can pout if they want and say mean things if they want.

But that's ALL they can do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You mean like has happened to the AP?

They are not just destroying careers...

They are trying to control the press.

[nashville_brook]

43. i see what you're saying...thanks!

[Smarmie Doofus]

55. +1. n/t

[treestar]

4. Who are "the powerful?"

Are they all bad, every last one of them?

He's trying to make himself sound cool. The big shots are talking about me at the cocktail parties!

[trumad]

6. He's fucking dead.

I am stunned this flew over your head.

[treestar]

7. He's dead because

he was driving his Mercedes too fast.

[vanlassie]

12. OMG.

If I were an alerter, I would alert this over-the-top remark. For gods sakes, have some restraint.

[treestar]

17. Huh?

He was driving his Mercedes too fast is an alert-able remark?

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. You know when part of the trannie lands well before the

Impact site it has to be investigated. I am sure this never, ever entered your mind, but there are several possibilities, from just driving fast, to mechanical failure, the kind that requires recalls, to murder.

A responsible agency will not dismiss any until after they finish the investigation...honestly that takes months. And if it happens to be mechanical, don't you want a mass recall to prevent other vehicles from going off? I still remember when posters here could not believe this could not b the case with Toyota, even when one driver was a CHP officer, aka a trained driver.

So I m not willing to hang my hat on the he was driving too fast meme, not after reading witness accounts.

[treestar]

32. That may well be

And I would change my mind if investigation showed something like this. If it's a defect his estate could sue. But I still don't see how it's alert-worthy to hold the opinion it might have been that he was driving too fast.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Complaint about alerts somewhere else

I do not play that game...I don't do juries either.

I find both useless and a real waste of my time.

[treestar]

36. Post 12 is in the thread you are in

I do not complain. I wonder at the OMG reaction. Seem WAY OTT.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Well, some people get it

Some do not.

It's this way in most dictablandas.

It is a pattern that speaks volumes.

Yup, that includes the whisper campaigns, when character assassins are not enough...

Hastings was warned that he was under surveillance by a few in the SF community since he did piss off a few powerful people. Chew on that one. This is why this is not such crazy talk as much as you think it is.

For the moment I will wait for the investigation. Suffice it to say, I have seen some strange shit in my life...if omg this was the CIA :tinfoil: from experience we will never know. So I hope it was just mechanical failure, in a vehicle, and that a recall ensues...

Why? 100+ on narrow streets... I am a trained driver, I know a few trained drivers...somebody not trained...

So there are some pieces to this puzzle where there are way too many coincidences.

Have a good day.

[rhett o rick]

13. You need to venture out once in a while. Everything in life isnt in a nice clean package to

make your life less complicated. It's not that you may not be right, it's your certainty that you are right that's disturbing.

I can understand your need to believe that there are no scary things in the night, but I dont understand your apparent desperate need to convince others. There are scary things in the night and the best way to fight them is to keep an open mind and open eyes.

There are powerful people out there that are conspiring to become more wealthy and powerful at the expense of the middle and working classes. They have been very successful, in case you havent noticed. They may not have had anything to do with Mr. Hastings death but they have the resources to have and we should at least investigate.

[treestar]

18. It's being investigated.

But it's likely he was driving too fast - it happens. Accidents happen. If they find some brake-tampering I will consider it possible someone tried to kill him. Also be open minded that it could have been a non-government person. Though I'm sure that there will be those who will insist on it being a conspiracy and that the LAPD are in on it.

[Major Hogwash]

25. Psst, you're ruining their conspiracy.

TPTB = the powers that be.

They killed him, don't you see!!

It couldn't have just been an accident!!

Oh, that would be a nice, neat little package, all tied up with a bow, wouldn't it??

[treestar]

28. And it'll remain there, regardless of the evidence

CTs always stay wrapped up in that bow! The Powers that Be always get away with it!!!!!! We're doomed, I tell ya!

[rhett o rick]

47. Sadly that is all you have. Ridicule. How's it working for you. And having your fingers in your

ears, eyes tightly shut and singing, "It's not Obama's fault, it's not Obama's fault." isnt ruining anything.

I dont claim there is a conspiracy, I am keeping an open mind.

[treestar]

50. You are keeping an open mind?

that's good. Do you think Obama ordered this directly?

[rhett o rick]

52. LOL. If I thought Pres Obama ordered this directly, that wouldnt be an open mind now would it?

I would say that it is extremely unlikely that he had any prior knowledge of this incident if it wasnt an accident.

At this point, I am leaning toward the belief that it was an accident. But there are some questions that need answering.

[rhett o rick]

48. So you no longer say it's definitely he was driving too fast and on drugs or alcohol,

now it's "likely" he was driving too fast. Why the need to think "likely"? That's a rhetorical question.

[treestar]

49. Anything is possible, I suppose

Most likely that he was driving too fast. Usually it is the simplest explanation. But I am aware that even if the evidence shows that it is that simple, you won't be backing down at all. At least I would if there were evidence.

[rhett o rick]

51. All I ask is try to keep and open mind. nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. There are strange things happening all the time.

I remember two particular calls in the border that never happened. One was even taken off logs.

Both would have been a great embarrassment, particularly one.

[Civilization2]

23. or he was driving 'too fast' because his car was sabotaged?

the use of the word "Mercedes" instead of the normal word "Car" is telling,. it is a way to lead the public to think that Hastings was making good coin, and we should not pity about the poor "rich reporter".

[treestar]

24. It was a fact that it was a Mercedes, no?

But we are not allowed that detail? I pity him - he's dead at a pretty young age. Sounds like you don't want to deal with the issue there - that normally DU is all up against people who are rich enough to drive cars that cost a lot of money.

There is nothing so far to indicate the car was sabotaged other than people's fervent desire that some shadowy government agent be responsible for the accident, so they can indulge in more OMG we are the victims of a terrible police state exaggeration.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Having grown up in one

It is...all the elements are in place.

Just because we don't have checkpoints and it does not conform to the Hollywood image, does not mean it's not.

Perhaps we need (I fear we will) to move from this dictablanda to a full blown one for you to get it.

It's bad enough that I am waiting for the dedazo and the destape...we just pretend to have a role in this.

And when that happens it will be too late. For the moment we still have a limited maneuver room. I expect that to continue to close in as well...

[treestar]

39. That's bad news

I certainly don't want to live in a police state. Is there anything we can do now to head this off? I don't know the meanings of three of your words that being a "d" but it certainly sounds ominous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Dictablanda is a soft dictartorship

The beauty is that you can have these conversations and pretend you can be critical of the government. Once you get over the line, ask occupy, the full force on the state will be used.

Yup, all the scenery remains in place to keep the illusion.

Dedazo, designated successor, come from Mexico, destape, the great reveal. Given that conventions these days (on both sides) are not surprising any more...they both apply.

Yup, we pretend we elect these people. Like the PRI we really don't. And if somebody who is not approved gets close, we engage in a whisper campaign of sorts, see Dean Scream

So some of us recognize this, since it is not in a book...we lived it...including intense surveillance from the state. It's way too familiar. Frank Zappa was right though, all this is scenery.

[Civilization2]

56. Is it exaggeration when we point out the corporate-military overrunning democracy?

"indulge in more OMG we are the victims of a terrible police state exaggeration"

It is not an indulgence, it is a fact.

[KG]

10. I'm not.

[Hissyspit]

11. So you're an investigative journalist, are you?

[zeemike]

15. Well then it is OK to ruin someone...

Cause not all of them are bad...
Unbelievable rationalization of moral corruption...And it is the victims fault because they are trying to "look cool"

[treestar]

19. What is this moral corruption?

It's morally wrong for "the powerful" (whoever they are) to do what? Talk about someone at a cocktail party?

[zeemike]

20. I guess you just can't see it

Ruining someones career by bearing false witness IS moral corruption.
So we must assume you have never been taught morality and the importance of it.

[treestar]

26. How was Hastings "ruined?"

Are you claiming these cocktail party whispers meant he could no longer continue his career? Did that happen?

Life is life, it's not morally corrupt to talk about others.

[zeemike]

41. well he is dead so we will never know now will we?

And yes it is moral corrupt to spread lies and bear false witness against people...for god's sake it is one of the ten commandments...thou shall not bear false witness.

But you can rationalize it with "life is life"?....amazing.

[treestar]

44. It would be nice if we knew more about what these horrible people were saying

But it had not ruined his career up to the point where he had an accident. You call it rationalizing but it will still happen, get on with life. I don't know what else to do about it. We can't make speech illegal, even if false. He'd have the opportunity for a libel lawsuit had he lived. IF there was any such thing done to him.

[zeemike]

46. What can we do about it?

Support morality is the best way, instead of making excuses for it.
When morality is fashionable it causes a chilling effect on such behavior.
And when morality is no big deal then you encourage it.

I have no desire to limit any speech for any reason...but that includes mine about how wrong it is to bear false witness...and If I could get you and others to do the same it would not stop it but it would slow it way down and have other beneficial effects besides...

[snot]

53. Re- whether journalists' careers are derailed by efforts to discredit them --

Last edited Sat Jun 22, 2013, 01:40 PM - Edit history (1)

while Hastings, Hedges, et al. found ways to continue their invaluable work, note that they do NOT do it at, e.g., The New York Times.

It's a sad comment that so much of the best journalism is now published by Rolling Stone and other even smaller publications; and it does reduce the public impact that their work might otherwise have.

[treestar]

54. Get more people to read Rolling Stone

It's a well known publication. No one is stopped trying to get more people to pay attention.

I don't know the way around that. The NYT will decide what it publishes - what other way is there? Who would decide what they have to publish or not publish?

[ReRe]

30. "...aided by other journalists."...

... Like Geraldo and NYTimes

[Iliyah]

35. I wouldn't call folks from Fake new and the rest of corporate

media journalist but well paid "echo chambers" for the 1%.

R.I.P. - there are a few journalist and Michael Hastings was one.

[L0oniX]

38. Sounds like social terrorism to me.

[FarCenter]

40. "politics ain't beanbag"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finley_Peter_Dunne

Finley Peter Dunne (July 10, 1867 — April 24, 1936)