Snowden: "I Had No Contact with the Chinese Government," "Predictable Smear."

[Hissyspit]

He said he has “had no contact with the Chinese government” and speculation that he would provide classified information to foreign governments in exchange for asylum is “a predictable smear” that he anticipated.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-17/snowden-says-he-did-not-reveal-military-targets-in-disclosures.html

Snowden Says Leaks Didn’t Disclose U.S. Military Targets

By Phil Mattingly and Chris Strohm
June 17, 2013 1:25 PM EDT

Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked classified documents about government surveillance programs, said he didn’t reveal any U.S. operations “against legitimate military targets.”

“I pointed out where the NSA has hacked civilian infrastructure such as universities, hospitals, and private businesses because it is dangerous,” Snowden said during an Internet question-and-answer session today on the website of U.K.’s Guardian newspaper.

Snowden’s identity on the chat couldn’t be independently verified.

- snip -

“These nakedly, aggressively criminal acts are wrong no matter the target,” Snowden said on the website. Snowden added that after his leak, the government “immediately and predictably destroyed any possibility of a fair trial at home, openly declaring me guilty of treason and that the disclosure of secret, criminal and even unconstitutional acts is an unforgivable crime.”

- snip -

He said he has “had no contact with the Chinese government” and speculation that he would provide classified information to foreign governments in exchange for asylum is “a predictable smear” that he anticipated.

“Just like with the Guardian and the Washington Post, I only work with journalists,” Snowden said.

MORE

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Those ever so nice, privacy loving, folks at the NSA and CIA smear?!!? Perish the thought!

Next he'll be saying that the NSA spies on Americans! And, that the CIA aren't bleeding heart humanitarians!

[rhett o rick]

2. Wait just a second. There were a number of DU posters that were positive that

Snowden was a Chinese spy. They must have based that on something.

[siligut]

8. He requested the information be published prior to Xi Jinping's visit

Obama's summit with the Chinese president was going to include concern regarding China spying on its citizens. Due to Snowden's concern for the timing, I had to consider that he had a purpose other than exposure for the good of all. Then when he took refuge in Hong Kong, it increased my suspicion.

[rhett o rick]

13. I have no problem with suspicion. It's when people are dead sure, that bothers me. nm

[Katashi_itto]

16. Agree!

[JoeyT]

14. Maybe he's just a fan of irony.

Last edited Sat Jun 22, 2013, 08:11 PM - Edit history (1)

"Good afternoon, President Xi. I was going to spend the next two hours griping at you for spying on your citizens and hacking into our computers, but all things considered I think we should play golf now."

[Politicalboi]

32. Snowden actually helped Obama

By not making a bigger fool of him and us.

[tarheelsunc]

45. Xi is his surname.

Calling him "President Jinping" is just like calling President Obama "President Barack."

[JoeyT]

75. Oops.

Yeah, my bad. Editing.

[siligut]

58. And then there is the fact that Jinping's dad was a propaganda minister

Because, god forgive me, I absolutely love the irony of that. It works and I am impressed if that is the way it washed out.

[truedelphi]

53. Plus why in the world would someone "out" himself before making

Such a deal? Granted, all I know about spying is what I read in thriller novels, but it seems rather clumsy to let everyone in the world know you have classified material to release, before being paid by a foreign concern for any of it...

[dennis4868]

39. Wait...

are you saying that people on DU have to post stuff based on something? Wow, that's news to me.

[Swagman]

77. those boxes in the garage..do keep up

[whistler162]

3. Okay and I believe the guy with the

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half empty can of gas and open lighter who is standing in front of the burning building that he isn't guilty of arson!

Might be a tad more believable if he wasn't in Hong Kong which is part China!

[Progressive dog]

6. ^^this^^nt

[randome]

4. The man lied on his resume. He said he "saw things" but never said what they were.

Except for the legally obtained metadata, he has shown us nothing to support his crazy claims of the NSA 'watching our thoughts form as we type'.

Why would anyone take this guy's word for anything?

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[perdita9]

10. I'm also suspicious

I find Snowden's behavior troubling. There were other ways he could have handled this. He seems to have done so in such a way to draw large amounts of attention to himself.

[randome]

11. It can be said that he started a conversation but there were definitely better ways to do that.

And now Greenwald is 'reporting' that the NSA is spying on China. Good grief. I don't have a problem with someone saying that all spying should stop but, again, is this the way to go about it?

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[Major Nikon]

17. He's either a paid pawn of the Chinese or an unwitting stooge of the Chinese

I'm not sure which is worse.

[GoCubsGo]

38. Or of the CATO Institute and their ilk.

I think he's a dupe of that crowd.

[siligut]

54. Did the history of seizures raise your suspicion too

Maybe it is too much to expect that people know about manipulation of dupes?

[GoCubsGo]

66. What does that have to do with anything?

Are you saying that he has a history of seizures, and that's causing him to behave the way he has?

AFAIC, it's irrelevant.

[siligut]

71. Dupes may have been subjected to brain manipulation

Brain manipulation can cause seizures. But I gather that when you used the term dupe, you used it generically.

[GoCubsGo]

72. Yes, I meant it generically.

[Luminous Animal]

79. Greenwald didn't report that. He didn't write one article about the U.S. hacking private computers

in China.

[Major Nikon]

15. He also lied about what he had access to and his salary

But when he says he isn't working for the Chinese we have to believe him, even though his initial release was coincident with Obama's trip to China and the fact that he ran to China prior to releasing anything.

[randome]

20. My personal opinion is that he is NOT a spy for the Chinese.

He seems too awkward, this entire event handled in a ham-fisted way. And why involve Greenwald?

But that's just a guess on my part. I have no idea what kind of thinking went into this.

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[pscot]

55. That charge about the salary is untrue

He says he told Greenwald he had made up to $200,000, but that he took a significant pay cut to work for NSA. The error was Greenwald's.

[Major Nikon]

64. So where did he earn $200,000?

He certainly didn't make that working for the Army or the CIA, and someone who willingly takes a 40% pay cut to do the same job is an idiot.

[Luminous Animal]

80. Dell. His base salary was $160,000 but he receive regular performance bonuses.

[Major Nikon]

81. I haven't seen that anywhere

Greenwald said he never received any proof that Snowden ever made $200K. Snowden also claimed he had "authority" to tap anyone and that was bullshit. I don't believe anything he says without proof.

[rhett o rick]

19. You need to get a new tune. That one is getting old. And again no one is asking you to

take his word for anything. HE IS NO LONGER THE STORY. He is a major distraction.

[randome]

21. I agree. So why do threads keep popping up about him? Like this one.

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[rhett o rick]

23. It looks like new information. Disparaging him will not make the problem go away. nm

[randome]

24. He has nothing to do with the problem.

Why give reading space to someone who has lied? I pretty much agreed with him saying he is not a Chinese spy but, on the other hand, I feel compelled to point out that he is a liar.

So what to believe? Better to keep our eyes fixated on the NSA instead of showcasing Snowden's every utterance as if it's relevant.

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[Monkie]

26. its weird, he/she was actually quoting from the docs proving there was content

and is now saying there is not, its like his/her left hand does not know what his/her right hand is typing...

[randome]

29. For the record: 'his'.

My left hand sometimes engages in a life-or-death struggle with my right. But so far it's a stalemate.

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[rhett o rick]

30. I see a certain desperation. nm

[Monkie]

36. i posted a direct quote further down in the thread, its quite funny

and beyond desperate.

[randome]

40. The face of desperation.

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[Monkie]

42. the last refuge...is the posting of big pictures

reading you loud and clear.

[randome]

47. Apparently Hong Kong is the 'last refuge' for a certain ex-NSA contractor.

I suggest we all go over there and celebrate Snowden's stunning victory over the forces of communism and centrally planned economies.

I'm sure if we all work together we can carry the Snowy One on our shoulders throughout the city.

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[graham4anything]

76. What problem? That is a faux strawman to say there is a problem in the first place

It just attempts to further the meme

but it doesn't mean anyone is buying it but the people that do buy it.

Never heard of this person 2 weeks ago, I don't rush to believe a person I never heard of over the President and his staff.

especially four days now before one of the most important elections for a senate seat that is nail-biting close.

[randome]

27. I'm thinking of a mental disorder between 5 and H. Can you guess what it is?

Last edited Sat Jun 22, 2013, 06:00 PM - Edit history (2)

Answer: PINECONES!

Go ahead, copy and paste all you want. Or you can respond in a civil manner to some of the posts on this thread.

For the record: I did not alert on the above post. I had my contacts in the NSA do it.

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[Monkie]

35. im trying to be as civil as i can, how can i say in civil words that your a lier?

im not the one saying the complete opposite in one thread to what i say in another.
you cant say storing the data for 5 years is not a problem
and then say snowden is a XXXX and its only metadata, it has nothing to do with being civil???

normally i would say that someone can only be that stupid if you are doing this on purpose to make people who support obama on this issue look bad.

[randome]

37. Why would anyone say that any governmental agency does not store data?

I never said that. I said I have seen no evidence that they are downloading the Internet on a daily basis as Snowden claimed. They are not 'hoovering' up the Internet and storing it.



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[Monkie]

41. well, but were you not saying snowden could not be trusted for doing what you are doing?

you claimed snowden made exaggerated claims, only to change his tune with the leaks.
and now you are doing the same, when someone shows you up.
so by using your logic you cant be trusted.
too funny.

[randome]

43. My brain hurts.

Does yours?



Yes, Snowden cannot be trusted. The only 'expose' was the warrant (legal) that showed the metadata was being collected. Big. Whoop.

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[Monkie]

52. your own quote shows its not metadata, seriously, i dont use the word delusional lightly

but this is above and beyond monty python territory..

who on earth would still take you seriously after screwing up like that?
you and the drone lovers are doing more damage to obama than snowden ever could.

[pscot]

57. Obama can't be trusted either

So what's your point?

[randome]

59. I would sooner trust Obama than a guy who apparently has lied his way through life.

Then flees to Hong Kong while saying, "I'm not trying to hide from justice here."

I know Obama has been a disappointment to some. I'm not going to deny that I wish he had shown more in-your-face style or reached for fruit higher on the tree.

But he's also been dealt a bad hand. He can't get anything done with the House controlled by an obstructionist GOP. Getting angry, stomping his feet, politically speaking, would not change that.

I'm willing to still give him the benefit of a doubt but I'm not going to say I don't understand why some are disappointed.

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[pscot]

60. His first 2 years he had a pat hand

He chose to check, rather than press the bet. Bad mistake. We've all been living with the consequences ever since.

[randome]

63. I can't argue with that.

Except I don't think he had a veto proof majority in the House even then, did he?

Still, I'm not arguing with you. He's the President and that's not going to change until 2016.

If he's not all the President we wanted, I do not for a moment believe he has any nefarious intentions toward us. He has good character. That may not be enough but it is what it is.

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[rhett o rick]

67. And now you trust Clapper while you didnt when he worked for Boosh. It's the same damn program. nm

[randome]

68. Honestly, I wasn't even aware of Clapper before now.

And no, I don't trust him. But until someone shows me evidence of why he should not be trusted, I'm going to stay neutral.

And Clapper's 'lie' in a public hearing doesn't count, in my opinion, for the reasons I've stated before. But mostly because he readily reversed himself soon after that statement.

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[rhett o rick]

69. Clapper is a lying Republican. He was given the question ahead of time. It wasnt a surprise.

He answered clearly no. Later, he tried to backtrack by saying he had a different definition of collecting data. Interesting that he can talk "truth" to a reporter but lie to Congress. Clinton got impeached for less. Yet you defend him, a lying ass REpublican.

The question was perfectly clear, "Do you collect any data on millions of Americans." The key here is "any data". He say a very clear "no".

The hypocrisy is that you wouldnt be giving him the benefit of the doubt if Boosh was president. The spy programs are the same ones used by the Republicans and we have the exact same people running them today.

[Th1onein]

73. Hmmmm. Why, indeed? Could it BE that Obama wouldn't be filing charges on him if he had not

blown the whistle on the fact that the NSA spies on Americans? Hmmm?

Seems SOMEBODY is taking his word for things!

[Life Long Dem]

5. Sounds like neither did Kenneth Ford

Kenneth Wayne Ford Jr. was indicted under the Espionage Act 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) for allegedly having a box of documents in his house after he left NSA employment around 2004. He was sentenced to six years in prison in 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

[iandhr]

7. Both sides are painting this as a black and white...

...open and shut type thing. We have the government saying he spied and is a threat and Snowden who says "I only work with journalists.


I believe the truth is a bit more complicated.

[randome]

9. It always is.

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[iandhr]

12. Some people here don't seem to get that.

[Monkie]

33. only the person you are talking to is um "economical" only a day or two ago the content storage was

fine with him, but now there is no content storage, and i reminded him yesterday its not smart to lie on a forum.
so i really dont get how he can do it again today, how can you compartmentalise the truth like this knowing it can be used "against you" so easily.

Star Member randome (14,178 posts)
6. Not sure why these items would be that big a concern.

• Keep data that could potentially contain details of US persons for up to five years;
I don't understand the use of this but the 'potential' keyword likely makes it not a big deal.

• Retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;
So if NSA, in learning of a terrorist plot connected overseas, also sees a Replied To email with the text of a sender in the U.S., they should pretend they don't see it?

• Preserve "foreign intelligence information" contained within attorney-client communications;
It may not be kosher but it has nothing to do with our attorney-client privilege.

• Access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine" or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.
For the purposes of ceasing surveillance. This sounds downright sublime.

[GoCubsGo]

44. Yep.

Way more complicated. And, as the facts keep dripping out, the whole thing gets even more suspicious--from all angles. I don't understand how anyone has their mind made up at this point, regardless who they believe or disbelieve.

[Scurrilous]

18. Never heard of him until a couple of wks ago, still know squat about him, but trust him implicitly!

Disaffected Libertarian doofus du jour...squeeeeeee!!

[rhett o rick]

22. He is not the story. Whether he is a libertarian or whatever, doesnt have anything to do with what

our concern should be. It appears that there is a lot going on with our intelligence agencies that we need to investigate.

The only reason that some here are disparaging Snowden is that he is responsible for shaking up their comfortable denial bubbles.

The same thing happens to all whistle-blowers. Some people resent finding out that things arent sweet and nice like they think. People got mad at the guy exposed the tobacco companies that were adding chemicals to make cigarettes addictive.

Doesnt matter what Snowden's motives were, it matters what our intelligence agencies are doing.

[Scurrilous]

50. What bubbles?

The type of information gathering he exposed has been going on for years and most informed people have been (if somewhat vaguely) aware of it.

The government spies.

Holy @#$% Glen Greenwald. Scoop of the Century!!1!

Where were you when Bush started the worst of this crap. Oh yeah, deferring to the authority of the President in matters of national security.

And the political affiliations of both Greenwald and Snowden have everything to do with this story, especially in regards to the timing and what persons the bulk of their invective is being directed at.

[rhett o rick]

65. You should just stop. You're making it worse for yourself.

For some, rationalization is the key to happiness. Rationalize away.

[rhett o rick]

78. Are you ready to throw Plame and Wilson under the bus?

They say, "Let's be absolutely clear about the news that the NSA collects massive amounts of information on US citizens – from emails, to telephone calls, to videos, under the Prism program and other Fisa court orders: this story has nothing to do with Edward Snowden."

Character assassinations for Snowden and Greenwald wont put the horses back into the barn.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/23/nsa-intelligence-industrial-complex-abuse

So far none of "the BOG" have entered the discussion in that thread.

[arcane1]

28. "Snowden’s identity on the chat couldn’t be independently verified."

I think the proverbial pinch of salt is needed regarding anything in this article.

[railsback]

31. What Snowden says, goes.

No one disagree. All accept his words as gospel. If you don't, you're obviously a Fascist. So says the DU.

[treestar]

51. An authoritarian apologist to boot!

[bhikkhu]

34. A statement's predictability has little to do with its truthfullness

At this point he certainly has a lot of options open to him. Perhaps he has or will give up information in exchange for asylum; in either case let me make two predictions of my own: first, that he would deny it and the Chinese would back him up in the denial. Second, that we will never know for sure.

Arguing about this sort of thing is kind of pointless.

[arely staircase]

46. good point

there is no way the Chinese gov. reads Chinese newspapers.

[tarheelsunc]

48. You know Snowden cannot tell a lie. eom

[nineteen50]

49. I guess his lying qualifies him

for a presidential run.

[Marr]

56. Perhaps we need to reconsider our definition of 'the hair on fire' group.

I seem to recall a whole collection of self-described 'reality-based, clear thinkers' who were shouting down their opposition with claims that this man was a Chinese spy.

Hair on fire, indeed.

[blkmusclmachine]

61. +1. Predictable Smear.

[jmowreader]

62. That Snowden says he didn't have contact with the Chinese government doesn't mean much

Assume he DID have contact with them. Do you really expect him, after he expressed a belief that the USG would prosecute him for Espionage Act violations, to self-incriminate by saying he had contact with them?

Also note that he specifically mentions the Chinese government repeatedly. There are quite a few governments that don't like the US at all - North Korea comes specifically to mind - that he could be working with, while still being very truthful in the statement that he's not working for the Chinese.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

70. As long as he speaks publicly, he is committing a crime

According to the totalitarian rules on their books.

Will he be able to get asylum from a nation strong enough to oppose the worlds most aggressive country on the planet?

[Cali_Democrat]

74. Snowden said it, so it must be true

Yes...the same guy who lied through his teeth on his resume. The same guy who lied about his salary and inflated it by 64%. The same guy who sits in Hong Kong revealing information about US hacking against China.

That guy? Oh...he would never tell a lie.