Carney responds to question about Snowden meeting with human rights groups.

[ProSense]

Q Thanks very much, Jay. Does the President think that folks like Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International are being used by Edward Snowden when they show up at a meeting with him in the secure part of the airport? Does the President have any message for groups that stand up for what they describe as human rights --

MR. CARNEY: I would say a couple of things about that. One, those groups do important work, but Mr. Snowden is not a human rights activist or a dissident. He is accused of leaking classified information, has been charged with three felony counts, and should be returned to the United States, where he will be accorded full due process.

And on the issue of human rights organizations in Russia, meeting with Mr. Snowden, I think we would urge the Russian government to afford human rights organizations the ability to do their work in Russia throughout Russia, not just at the Moscow transit lounge.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/12/press-briefing-press-secretary-jay-carney-7122013

[FSogol]

1. K&R. n/t

[ProSense]

2. The spectacle of

human rights organizations participating in a PR event in Russia.

How the Snowden Affair Became a Freak Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023235597

[DesMoinesDem]

3. Carney needs to look up the definition of dissident. He clearly has no idea

what it means.

[polichick]

4. Maybe Americans don't get to be dissidents - we're exceptional, ya know.

[treestar]

24. We do and we aren't at risk for doing it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissident

A dissident, broadly defined, is a person who actively challenges an established doctrine, policy, or institution. When dissidents unite for a common cause they often effect a dissident movement.

Americans are free to be dissidents and are so every day. That aren't in the danger that Soviet Dissidents were.

[polichick]

34. Snowden is a dissident...

"challenging an established doctrine, policy, or institution" is exactly what he's doing - plus he's telling Americans what's going on, so he's a dissident whistleblower I guess.

[allin99]

5. the whole statment was awesome. lol...

"not an activist", like what does that have to do with anything, lol.
"not a dissident", which he is
and then a snap on russia. lol. which is always nice. not sure it helps him, but it was nice of him to add it in anyway. lol.

Has Obama made any statements regarding Putin's law criminalizing open homosexuality? just curious. or was that it right there.

[ProSense]

6. "Has Obama made any statements regarding Putin's law criminalizing open homosexuality?"

You mean the law of the land of Snowden's dreams: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023235597

...the great human rights mecca?

[allin99]

7. that has zero to do with my question...

do you know the answer or not? he very well may have.

[ProSense]

8. LOL!

[ProSense]

10. BTW, here's a recent U.S. statement issued to the OSCE

Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe

LGBT Rights in the Russian Federation

As delivered by Ambassador Ian Kelly
to the Permanent Council, Vienna
July 4, 2013

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The United States is deeply concerned that on June 30 President Putin signed a law that bans "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations." The United States has previously raised our concern regarding laws that criminalize “gay propaganda" among minors. These laws restrict freedoms of expression and assembly for LGBT individuals, and indeed for all Russians. We disagree with the idea that anyone needs protection from LGBT information or individuals.

The United States places great importance on the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms for all people. LGBT persons have the same human rights and inherent human dignity as all others. As President Obama has said, “The struggle to end discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender persons is a global challenge, and one that is central to the United States’ commitment to promoting human rights.”

The United States notes that on June 29 in St. Petersburg, supporters of LGBT rights attempted to hold a rally at the city’s Field of Mars Park but were disrupted by opponents of LGBT rights who pelted the marchers with stones, eggs, and small smoke canisters. When organizers refused to heed police instructions to end the event, 53 supporters were arrested. Thirty-five LGBT rights supporters were subsequently charged with violating public protest rules and/or public disobedience. A handful of LGBT opponents were arrested as well.

Earlier in June, two St. Petersburg based LGBT organizations (“Coming Out” and the “Side by Side” Film Festival) were brought to trial and subsequently found guilty of failing to register as foreign agents under Russia’s “foreign agents” law. Anna Anisimova, the acting head of “Coming Out,” was also found to have violated the “foreign agents” law.

We call on the Russian Federation to meet its obligations to respect and protect human rights, including those of LGBT individuals, and fundamental freedoms under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and to fulfill its numerous OSCE commitments on assembly, association, and expression.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

http://osce.usmission.gov/jul_4_13_russia_lgbt.html

[allin99]

12. Thank you.

[struggle4progress]

14. Laws of Attrition: Crackdown on Russia’s Civil Society after Putin’s Return to the Presidency

APRIL 24, 2013

In the year since Vladimir Putin’s return to the presidency in May 2012, the Russian government has unleashed a crackdown on civil society unprecedented in the country’s post-Soviet history. The authorities have introduced a series of restrictive laws, harassed, intimidated, and in several cases imprisoned political activists, interfered in the work of nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), and sought to cast government critics as clandestine enemies, thereby threatening the viability of Russia’s civil society ...

... the “foreign agents” law ..., a new law regulating NGOs, requires, among other things, organizations that receive foreign funding and supposedly engage in “political activities” to register as “foreign agents.” ... A third law, the treason law, expands the legal definition of treason in ways that could criminalize involvement in international human rights advocacy ...

In addition, libel, decriminalized at the end of Dmitry Medvedev’s presidency, was recriminalized seven months later, and Internet content has been subjected to new legal restrictions. A new assembly law imposes limits on public demonstrations and imposes serious, drastic fines on those who violate the law.

The new laws, most of them sponsored by the ruling United Russia party, were adopted at breakneck speed: the assembly law, for example, entered into force just 18 days after the lower house of parliament, the State Duma, began debating it ...

http://www.hrw.org/node/115058/section/2

[Major Hogwash]

9. The Moscow transit lounge has the bestest human rights policies evah!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. A failed attempt at CYA. A rather facile one, at that.

[Cha]

16. HaHa.. it was a perfect response to those who whine for Snowden who

got himself into this mess.

Those multiple tiny violins you got goin' are for Mr, I feel sorry for myself, Snowden. Pathetic

[flamingdem]

13. Excellent snark from Carney

Putin deserved that one

[Cha]

18. Wasn't that a brilliant response from Jay?

MR. CARNEY: I would say a couple of things about that. One, those groups do important work, but Mr. Snowden is not a human rights activist or a dissident. He is accused of leaking classified information, has been charged with three felony counts, and should be returned to the United States, where he will be accorded full due process.

And on the issue of human rights organizations in Russia, meeting with Mr. Snowden, I think we would urge the Russian government to afford human rights organizations the ability to do their work in Russia throughout Russia, not just at the Moscow transit lounge.

True Snark

[flamingdem]

21. Cha have you seen this spy v spy article?

http://joshuafoust.com/

Called Snowden's .. defection

[Cha]

25. Really!? 'Cause it reads like The Onion!

Snowden’s… Defection?

Jul 12
2013

Today Edward Snowden announced his intention to accept Russia’s offer of asylum at a meeting of human rights groups allowed into the transit zone of Sheremetyevo airport. The meeting was attended (I’m sure by coincidence) by Olga Kostina, who sits on the board of state-owned oil company Transneft who also runs PR for the FSB (Russia’s ... .

If so, what about South America? I am totally out of the loop and I don't care.

[msongs]

15. more attack the messenger to avoid talking about the message as usual nt

[Godhumor]

17. In this case, he was asked a question about the messenger and he answered it

And answered it well, I might add.

[Cha]

19. So true! mahalo,

ProSense!

[bvar22]

20. It JUST keeps getting WORSE.

The very best thing the White House could do would be to:

*issue a generic apology for the "Over Reach" of our Secret Surveillance and Spying agencies to American citizens and the International Community,

*issue a vague generic promise to Deal with the "rogue" agency,

*separate himself from this burgeoning World Wide controversy,

*and Just Walk Away and NEVER mention Snowden again.

The "secret data" is GONE...NEVER to come back whether they Smoke him out and Get Him or NOT.
The DAMAGE is DONE. Time to Cut our Losses and WALK AWAY!
ANY stirring of this pot will only make it WORSE.

This latest Doubling Down on a Lost Cause will ONLY generate more Blow Back and feed the International Laughing Stock our Government has become.

It is WAY past time to Just Walk AWAY.
PLEASE!!!


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[MADem]

26. We'll just have to wait until we get defectors from Russia and China to know THEM by their works. nt

[bvar22]

30. What does THAT have to do with the decisions MY government is making?

Do those countries even claim to be open "democracies" with governments "of The people"?

You would think that a government that pays so much Lip Service to words like "Of The people", democracy, transparency, Constitutional Restrictions on Government
would have more respect for the real thing.

Aside from being a Logical Fallacy, the old children's dodge, "Yeah, but he's worse than me" never did make much sense to me, even when I was a child.
I mean, its just so dumb and transparent.

I'm surprised to see that old children's diversion making such a come back on DU these days.

[MADem]

31. Plenty. Actions precipitate reactions.

Actually, those countries do put forth a fiction that they are a "People's" Republic (China) and a Federal Republic (Russia).

Now, you remember that "R" word in that little thing you learned in school? ...and to the Republic, for which it stands...?

Do you think it would have helped matters if people like you were personally informed of the details of the landing at Normandy during WW2? Because, ya know, you have a RIGHT to know everything, right fricking now?

The Cold War isn't over. The Chinese are robbing us blind of intellectual and industrial property and weapon technology. The Russians aren't sitting on their hands either. Only people who don't pay attention haven't noticed the expulsions and jailings of spies hither and yon since walls got torn down and everyone in the military got a cute little "Cold War" certificate.

Mister Snowden did a great job of flipping the "WTF is up with PLA UNIT 61398" script, with allegations that haven't yet been proven. If he really wanted to have a conversation about this matter, he would have stayed home, lawyered up, and talked vaguely enough to not risk national security while demanding a closed session with Senate Intel Oversight. He wouldn't be making assertions about "US crimes" in regions where he wants to hang his hat, to encourage anti-American sentiment.

Pootie Poot didn't play, though--he said "If you want to stay here, you have to shut up." Pootie Poot wants Obama to visit in six weeks, and Obama won't if Ed is still there.

And I don't see anyone from VZ sending a plane for Ed. "Find your own way, pal..." That's the message for the "Papa Caliente."

I would welcome a public, sustained conversation between governmental oversight personnel and Mister Snowden about this matter. I don't believe he wants to have one, though--he wants to play "Where's Eddie" and drop turds, one at a time, in order to headline grab with his little friend Julian of the Back Room in the Knightsbridge Embassy. I'm not impressed with him and I don't believe his motives are pure--when he went from China to Russia, I smelled a huge rat.

And now, after that "press conference" with the KGB operative masquerading as a "Human Rights spokesperson," I'm quite convinced this guy is a bullshitter.

And funny--after that ginned up show, Russia is STILL staying they haven't received an asylum request from Eddie. Apparently they didn't hear the words that were coming out of his mouth:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/world/europe/edward-snowden-asylum.html?_r=0

Maybe they "lost" it?

Starting to sound like THEY don't want him around either.

From the link:

MOSCOW — Senior Kremlin officials said Saturday that Russia’s Federal Migration Service had not yet received a formal appeal for asylum from Edward J. Snowden. And the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, insisted that the government had had no contact with him — a curious statement given the government’s clear role in arranging a meeting at Sheremetyevo airport here in Moscow on Friday between Mr. Snowden and lawyers and human rights advocates. .... The verbal maneuvering seems to signal that Russia’s political position vis-à-vis Mr. Snowden has been complicated further by his now publicly professed desire to stay here. Although President Vladimir V. Putin has insisted that Mr. Snowden must stop harming American interests, the Obama administration has made clear that it believes those interests are being harmed so long as Mr. Snowden is on the loose.
.....On Saturday, however, the director of Russia’s Federal Migration Service, Konstantin Romodanovsky, told the Interfax news agency that no request had been received. “At the present time, there have been no applications from Snowden,” he said. “If we receive an application, it will be considered in due process of law.”

and MOST TELLING:

The Russian government has itself shown little regard for the international asylum process when it has pursued fugitives abroad. In a case last fall, a political opposition leader wanted by the Russian authorities who fled to Kiev and requested asylum was kidnapped when he stepped outside of his lawyer’s office for lunch. He was put in a van by masked men and driven back to Moscow, where federal officials insisted he had surrendered.

[bvar22]

33. When I let what someone else does,

determine what I do, then I have lost any pretense at a Moral Compass and ProActive control of my destiny and choices in life. I become a Re-Actor instead of a Leader.

If Just being a little better than the worst person is MY personal goal,
well, it is an easy task to always find somebody a little worse to rationalize away any guilt over a betrayal of what one claims to value.

Just being Better than the Republicans is the morality that has enabled the Democratic Party
to abandon the values that made our Party GREAT.


That is a creepy way to live,
but you are perfectly entitled to live that way if you so choose.

Thank gawd that LBJ, warts and all, had the intestinal moral fortitude to STAND UP and LEAD by doing the RIGHT thing with the Civil Rights Act despite the foreknowledge of the political consequences.

Paul Wellstone, locked in a close re-election campaign in 2002,
voted AGAINST the Iraq War despite ALL the warnings from the pundits, Party Advisers, and Talking Heads who predicted that it would cost him the election.
When questioned WHY he did that, despite the certain Political Cost,
He said, "I HAD to do the Right Thing."
Ironically, Wellstone surged ahead in the polls the next day.
Most people respect those who STAND UP and Do the RIGHT thing,
and let the pieces fall where they may.


[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[MADem]

36. You can't do shit if you're not allowed on the field.

And no matter what the tee vee tells you, you aren't doing much "leading" if you are An Army Of One.

So make the perfect the enemy of the good, if you'd like.

And characterize those unflatteringly who are pragmatic, if it makes you feel more "moral" than the average slob who will take incremental advances rather than dream about grand sweeping visions that just aren't going to happen because there's not enough people who feel the way you do.


If you're not allowed to play the game, you don't have a hope in hell of changing minds, never mind winning.

I thought Paul Wellstone was a fine man, but he's DEAD. He isn't playing the game, either. Norm Fucking Coleman took his chair, until Al Franken finally took it back.

There's something to be said for doing what you can, and living to fight another day. If you want to fall on your sword and call yourself "better" for so doing, fine. I'd rather get the best President we can get (not a pipe-dreamer who is way out of step with the bulk of the nation, but someone who will do as much good as possible while appealing to better angels and not polarizing too much) and a Congress who will support her or him.

America is not a Sailfish that can turn on a dime. It's an aircraft carrier, and it takes for frickin' ever to turn the thing.

We need three successive Democratic terms to even get the process started.

IMO, what's "creepy" (your word) is that you have such a rigid view about how politics works. You don't understand that it is a game of inches, and compromise, and give-and-take. I do think it's time for the Dems to start pushing, but that's not going to happen even if you elect (name your perfect, stars-in-your-eyes, idealized candidate-who-can-do-no-wrong) as President. It will only happen if a Democratic President has a Democratic Congress--and not before. In fact, the right Congress can "lead" the President, and often does.

Separation of powers, ain't it sumthin....

[AnnieBW]

22. Since When does Russia have Human Rights Groups?

Didn't Putin send them all to Siberia or something?

Methinks Mr. Snowden is getting played by the Organization Formerly Known As The KGB.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

23. Hot off the presses

No comment

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

27. Here's a video if anyone is interested.

MAN CRUSH.

[Cha]

29. Well you just joined.. Welcome to DU,

ALLINeedIsCoffee..

[Cha]

28. Kick for another thread with facts regarding

Snowden.

[great white snark]

32. Fact like he's a criminal hiding behind human rights to mask his pre planned vindictive leaking.

The courts and any fair minded person can see the premeditation.

[Cha]

35. Yes, snark.. Snowden is hiding behind the skirts

of human rights in Russia when he knew exactly what crime he committed. That's why he ran to China and then leaked.

Snowden and his Grand Hypocrisy Tour just jumped the Shark.