George Zimmerman Murdered a Child.

[David Zephyr]

Period.

[DesertFlower]

1. well said. nt

[ZombieHorde]

2. I agree, and I also believe

that minors should never be tried as adults, regardless of their crime.

[Skip Intro]

4. Even the "kid" who shot the baby in a stroller in the head in GA recently?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed

[burnodo]

6. if there's a hard and fast rule, then yes

if minors are not allowed to make adult decisions, then they shouldn't be tried as adults

[Skip Intro]

8. What is an adult decision?

At 17 you can quit school, join the service, get married, have an abortion, etc.

If the deciding line is being able to vote, then the inevitable question becomes, what if the kid killed a baby the day before his 18 the birthday?

It seems fairly well accepted by many that birth control should be available to boys and girls at least as young as 14.

No hard and fast rule that minors should be charged as adults, but the option should be there, on a case-by-case basis, imho. Sometimes it is warranted.

[ZombieHorde]

7. Yes. He is the same age as Martin.

If Martin was a child, then the shooter in that article is also a child.

[PatrynXX]

11. every case is different

or 15 yr old being charged with child porn even though she took a picture of herself (bonk)

[jtuck004]

16. So, consider a 14 year old boy, who beats, chokes, and rapes a 7 year old girl after luring her to

the woods. The choking was intended to get rid of her so she couldn't tell anyone, according to his statement.

Just juvenile detention?

[Ed Suspicious]

17. Yes. Unless you feel prison is simply for punishment

or retribution. I feel it should be for rehabilitation. How many years would be served for the same crime in one of the more liberal European countries?

[jtuck004]

25. So, repectfully, you have no answer. I suspect if that was your 7 year old girl, say his next

victim, (and there will very likely be one, if he gets the chance) and a district attorney tried that garbage line on a grieving parent there would be another crime, followed by the burial of the district attorney.

And, since you brought in Europe, I think Denmark lowered their age of criminal responsibility to 14 a couple of years ago.

You are correct, it should be for rehab, but that has nothing to do with the simple fact that sometimes prison is the best place for a predator, especially given our dismal record at even the best rehabilitation, and the simple fact that some people are irrevocably damaged.

[Ed Suspicious]

33. A grieving parent is not the person you want doling out justice.

On an individual level, of course I be insane with anger. Justifiably so. Right? I don't know. I just don't love the eye for an eye attitude we tend to have in this country.

[jtuck004]

34. I agree - eye4eye is no way to live. And we do leave it up to the DA, for the most part. But they

are sworn to protect, and a 14 year old that has done that kind of crime is far different from the one who gets tasered at school for writing on a desk, for example.

We have to look at the crime. And if they commit crimes that show a real propensity to harm others, especially crimes which have high correlation of being repeated, I think we would be walking away from our responsibility to protect others if we were to treat them as anything less than the serious threat that they are. I wouldn't like putting a 14 year old in prison for decades, but I would like it far less for the system to release them to prey on another child.

I think what makes this subject most difficult is the injustice inherent in our criminal justice system. If it wasn't for that these cases would be much more clear cut.

[ZombieHorde]

28. If 14 year olds are children, then they should be treated like children.

If they're not children, then they should have the rights of an adult. Atrocities don't make a person more mature.

[jtuck004]

30. ? This "child" lured a younger child into the woods, beat her, raped her, choked her, and left her

for dead. What about that 7 year old's rights, or is she just a sack of potatoes? And what about the rights of future victims of this predator?

No one would be taking away his rights by giving him a very adult trial and, assuming he is convicted, putting his 14 year old ass in jail for 30 years.

btw, this isn't hypothetical. He is in jail on the other side of the state as we speak. His current victim survived the attack.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

38. I'm perfectly fine with locking up monsters like this for the rest of their miserable lives.

I don't give two fucks about rehabilitating murderers/rapists.

[ZombieHorde]

43. Our country has deemed 14 year olds as being

too mentally incompetent to vote, sign legal contracts, purchase cigarettes, have sex, etc. If they are too mentally incompetent to do these things, then I don't think they should be held fully responsible for their actions.

I don't see the benefit of locking up a 14 year old for 30 years. If he is a psychopath, then he will still be a psychopath when released. If he is not a psychopath, then he will likely be very maladjusted when he is 44 years old.

I am not convinced revenge is a healthy right to have. The US is a revenge culture, but it doesn't seem to be accomplishing any long-term goals. It only seems to satisfy short term, sadistic goals. Our prisons are filled with revenge, but we don't seem better off than countries that hold revenge in lower esteem.

[jtuck004]

44. When did anyone mention revenge? But if you are the parent of the next 7 year old that he

lures into the forest and beats, chokes, rapes, and perhaps murders, I would bet cash money you would be the first in line to demand an explanation as to why the little monster was freed to kill your kid. I could see it called revenge if he were subjected to pain and torture, which is not at all the intent. He has already demonstrated that he is broken and will hurt innocent people. The cage is just to keep him from harming anyone else.

And I agree, it's most likely the product of what he experienced earlier in life, so I am all for a better solution that addresses the problem. Still haven't heard one that is workable in our world. Even the Europeans, who have a more enlightened view, have changed in recent years due to pressure about public safety.

But as far as not responsible, that's almost farcical. Barring a mental defect, (which should get him sequestered in a facility for possible mental treatment or our safety) he chose to go do that with what he had, instead of another course of action. And there are plenty of people who have survived dysfunctional families of all kinds to go on to things other than assaulting little children.

I will agree that our prisons are filled with victims of racism and bigotry and intolerance. But we aren't going to fix that by making excuses for child perpetrators of sexual or any other assault.

Kids, and adults, are always responsible for their actions. To approach it any other way is to ignore reality.

[Cha]

3. Anything else is just a

lame excuse.

Mahalo, David

[David Zephyr]

45. Yep.

[burnodo]

5. +1000000

that should be obvious to everyone...sadly it is not

[Blackford]

9. DURec n/t

[hrmjustin]

10. K&R!

[MjolnirTime]

12. and he did it completely by choice.

[duffyduff]

13. He acted as judge, jury, and executioner

I hope he gets convicted.

[eallen]

14. He killed a minor teenager. I wouldn't call a normal 17 year-old a child...

When I was that age, I was fully independent, working, and paying rent. That's not quite normal. But normally, we don't label older teenagers children. "Minor," yes. "Child," no.

I don't see why people are so intent on that. If Martin had been 23, or 43, would that make any difference in Zimmerman's culpability?

[ReRe]

19. In this country, the age of "majority" by law is 18.

IOW, a child no more when they reach age 18. Age 17, still a child.

[eallen]

24. "Minor" is not a synonym for "child"

Just as "child" is not a synonym for "infant." "Child" has a broader meaning, especially when referring to relationship. I am my father's child, even when I'm old and gray. But when referring to an age range, it typically means the range between infant and teen.

Even a child knows not to stick their hand in a burning fire. Infants, however, don't.

[Voice for Peace]

23. legally under 18 is a "child"

[99Forever]

37. WTF?

Arguing semantics? For that murdering scumbag? What is wrong with you FFS?

[eallen]

41. When people use silly rhetoric, it undermines their cause.

[99Forever]

42. Ahhh bullshit.

When tools argue semantics, it means they have nothing of substance to say.

[flvegan]

15. Did I miss a verdict?

Or is this an opinion/speculation piece?

[ReRe]

20. Opinion

No verdict yet. Jury returning in AM to deliberate.

[FrodosPet]

18. At 17 years old

I was learning how to

A. Fight fires and plug hull breaches
B. Detect and clean up contamination after a nuclear, biological, or chemical warfare attack
C. Repair RADAR, terrestrial, and satellite communications systems
D. Provide first aid to a shipmate with an open gut wound or other serious injuries

Seventeen is young. Too young to die. But to call a 17 year old a child is insulting to a lot of young people.

[ReRe]

22. Sorry the law is insulting...

... The age of majority in this country (USA) is 18 years of age. 17 is still a child. If you enlisted in the Navy before age 17, I guarantee you your parents or a guardian signed the enlistment papers. Are you a U.S. citizen? I don't know the laws in other countries.

[FrodosPet]

29. I did the research. I stand corrected.

Obviously, after my parents signed the papers, legally -I- was not a child. But unless one is emancipated, a 17 year old legally is a child. Maybe not physically, emotionally, or mentally, but definitely legally.

Emotionally, or mentally, I've known people in their 30s and above who would qualify as children, and 13 year olds who were adults. I'm not being a smartass or insulting - they are children in adult bodies.

[ReRe]

31. I get 'ya. My father himself behaved like a child...

....very irresponsible. Couldn't hold a job. I was working at age 16, which was the soonest I could get a worker's permit. Before that, I did some housekeeping and of course babysitting. Hell, I even made pot-holders and sold them to pay for church and 4-H camp during the summers when I was as young as age 10.

[annm4peace]

21. even if he wasn't a child

He still murdered a fellow citizen, human being. If it wasn't Trayvon then it could have been a "man" at any age.

I partly blame the police for not checking out this nut who kept calling 911 over 100 times. They should have taken away his gun permit.

and yes i don't see Trayvon as an adult. maybe not a child but not an adult either.

I saw the picture of him after he was killed and he looked like a kid. a school kid.

[Nye Bevan]

26. The word "child" is ridiculous posturing.

"Youth" or "teenager" would be OK, but in real life nobody refers to a 17-year old as a "child".

[ReRe]

27. The law says a person age 17 is a child.

Call your Congressman and take it up with them. For all we know, Congress might lower the age of majority/accountability to age 17.

[Ecumenist]

35. BTW he's only been 17 for 21 DAYS!!! He was a teen but still a CHILD!!!!!

PERIOD.

[David Zephyr]

48. Thank you for pointing that out.

And he was heading right back to his daddy's house. He was exactly where he should be, where he had every right to be.

He was murdered. And he was a child.

I was tossed to the streets at 17 and let me tell you: as worldly as I soon came to be, I was not prepared emotionally to deal with that.

Anyone who thinks shooting an unarmed kid who was followed by a man who had called labelled him as one of "fucking punks" who "always get away with it" is innocent or was defending himself against the kid has serious issues.

And the one who had the right to "stand his ground" was Travon. That was his ground by his daddy's house.

This excusing this sick jerk by some makes me sick.

Zimmerman murdered the Martin's Child.

[Niceguy1]

36. they do in this case

For obvious reasons. Amd for the record zimmy is a jerk.

[gollygee]

40. Uhm, yes people do.

Do you spend much time around kids? 17-year-olds are older children, but they're children.

[Starry Messenger]

32. k&r

[99Forever]

39. A murdering slimeball, for sure...

... no matter how many equally slimy gunnuts claim otherwise.

[Jefferson23]

49. What's your best guess, SollidState?

FYI, under the law, Trayvon was a child.

[Egalitariat]

47. Link please. I haven't seen where there is a verdict.