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XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:21 AM Jul 2013

Question about the Pine Ridge reservation

I've seen several documentaries and read several articles about the poverty at Pine Ridge. The fact that so many people are living without basic services like running water is shameful.

I have a question, though, and I hope it's not culturally insensitive.

Pine Ridge has a population of about 40,000 people, but it looks like many if not most people live outside town and miles from their nearest neighbors.

It seems to me like providing jobs, public services, community support, and basic utilities would be much easier with a more consolidated population, but there must be some reason why the population is so scattered. Native Americans back in the day lived in communities, and most people in the US today live in communities too. 40,000 people is a good-sized town, and it would be enough to get some economic cross-pollination going. Even two towns of 20,000 would be more economically viable. According to a report I worked on last year, white people in Nebraska are moving out of the tiny towns into slightly larger towns for the economic opportunities that are available.

Why is the population so dispersed? And is that changing, or are there cultural forces that keep people apart from each other?

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Question about the Pine Ridge reservation (Original Post) XemaSab Jul 2013 OP
back in the day dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #1
I was in Porcupine a few weeks in 1973. rug Jul 2013 #3
Until 1997 or 1998 my in-laws didn't have running water. Igel Jul 2013 #2
I've got some ideas about this, having spent some time in such places... hunter Jul 2013 #4

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
1. back in the day
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:35 AM
Jul 2013

they worked and hunted together and hence the importance then of community. They also had the ability and up and move all together to cope with seasonal weather changes and I would assume summer / winter hunting variations too.

That's just an observation based on what I've read on the subject in general and documentaries on the subject too. I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
3. I was in Porcupine a few weeks in 1973.
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:17 AM
Jul 2013

IMO, the poverty there is deliberate. The tribes were removed from sustainable land, placed in a barren desert. regulated, proselytized and supervised by the BIA and tribal police. Nothing that has happened in the last 40 years, and the 80 years before that, has occurred without the involvement of the Interior Department. The answers, and the accounting, must come from there.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
2. Until 1997 or 1998 my in-laws didn't have running water.
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:09 AM
Jul 2013

They lived 3 miles outside a town of 3000. Their nearest neighbor was half a mile away. The next nearest was over a mile away.

It was a big deal when the organization for whom they were in-residence caretakers managed to get funding to get city water out to them. Until then they had a tank, a pump, and a well.

They retired. Their house was 5 miles off the main road, the last houses on the other side of a community of 500. They weren't officially in the land platted for the community. The community had "running water" in the sense they had some wells and a central tank and water lines connecting them together. My in-laws didn't. They had a well, a pump, and a tank. If the pump broke, they had perhaps a day's reserve water.

It wasn't until 2010 or 2011 that the community managed to get watermains established to hook into a real municipal water line. During the decade they lived there there was massive development along the freeway for 2-3 miles on either side, so by the time the municipal water was put in it didn't come along the main highway but along a back road connecting that little community to one of the developments "behind it". And if the larger, organized community hadn't arranged for it, my inlaws would never have gotten municipal water.

So, yes, you probably have a good point. Anecdotally speaking. But nobody's going to want to find data that reservation dwellers aren't disadvantaged in every way possible. It's a myth that data speaks; data's goosed until it says what you want it to say, often enough. And while the theory in science is that you want to falsify your hypothesis by testing it, in a lot of fields the goal is to find just and only the data that supports your views--and that's usually not a hard task.

hunter

(38,317 posts)
4. I've got some ideas about this, having spent some time in such places...
Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:48 PM
Jul 2013

... but I really haven't lived it, so it's not mine to say.

My short answer is the way their cultures and communities were systematically destroyed. All the good stuff of their own culture was stripped away, including their land, and all the rotten stuff of white racist English speaking culture was imposed upon them without any of the positive aspects.

African American communities are disrupted in a similar fashion. Drugs and alcohol are a large part of it, but it goes much deeper than that. The dominant racist culture in the USA has centuries of experience suppressing communities that don't accept their white "Christian" values and a lower class status.

My family is wild west white. Most of them skipped the normal 18th and 19th century immigration paths. Many branches of my family tree end in fabrications. They simply appear in California or other Western states. The family histories they told their kids are not true. You don't tell your kid you were an impressed sailor who jumped ship in San Francisco, you tell 'em their esteemed ancestors came over on the Mayflower.

Dear old dad was not the guy on the wrong end of the stick:



My best documented ancestor was a "mail order" bride from Scandinavia to Salt Lake city. She didn't like sharing a husband so she ran off with a U.S. government surveyor with a sketchy background. If you read the history of the Mormons in the west, you see the U.S. government trying to disrupt the Mormon community in most every way possible. My wife-stealing ancestor may have been part of that plan. The U.S. government had ulterior motives when they sent guys like him into Mormon territory.

I've got some personal experience how this racism and suppression of non-white cultures was expressed. People of my grandparents' generation would have sworn up and down they were not racist. They had Black friends, American Indian friends, Asian friends, heck, even gay and Jewish friends.

But when they found out I was marrying a "Mexican girl" many of them were distraught. My generation was the first to marry "outside our race."

My mom and dad have cousins who still think that way. I've one niece, largely American Indian, who has a black boyfriend. She has not introduced him to this racist branch of the family even though she lives nearby.

Here's where I find it difficult to make my point because I'm just another clueless white guy who has never personally experienced this sort of discrimination.

My wife's dad is largely Southwestern Native American, on both sides of the U.S./Mexico border. Culturally his family is Mexican. When he was a kid his U.S. schools taught kids like him they were second class. The dominant white culture reinforced these "values" on television and everywhere else. His high school counselors encouraged white kids to go to college, but kids like my father-in-law were expected to work as farmworkers, in the packing houses, maybe go to a trade school. That's the work his parents did, that's what his white high school counselors and teachers expected of him, some of them telling him explicitly he should set "realistic goals" for himself.

My father-in-law didn't accept that and joined the Navy to escape. The Navy discovered he was very bright. They made him a medic, and he worked up from there.

Here's the sad thing -- many kids in his situation do not escape. The dominant society provides them with far more opportunities for failure than it does for success and thus communities are destroyed.

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