Milwaukee: Pair of men with concealed-carry permits engage in shootout

[Robb]

Two Milwaukee men -- each with a state permit to carry a concealed weapon -- traded dozens of shots in a rolling shootout through two sides of town and down a freeway, the kind of scenario concealed-carry opponents feared would turn road rage incidents deadly.

(snip)

That's when Adamany began emptying the magazine of his gun, shooting out the window with his left hand while driving and using the phone with his right hand, he told police.

"My radiator was hit, and the car was starting to overheat, so I aimed low to shoot out the tires," Adamany said in an interview with the Journal Sentinel. He said his phone was connected to 911 the entire time and that a recording will back up his story.

According to the complaint, Scott told a different detective that he and a friend were driving near South 27th Street and West Morgan Avenue when a blue car passed him. The other driver, Scott said, "mean mugged" him and showed a black handgun.

Scott grabbed his gun and displayed it before speeding away. Soon the blue car was chasing him, Scott said, firing shots. So Scott fired back out his driver's window, pointing backward over his shoulder with his right hand, while steering with his left.

Scott said he finally had to exit I-43 at North Avenue because all of his tires had been shot out, and his car came to rest on King Drive. He said the other man was still shooting, so he and his passenger ran away until they saw the deputy on North Fourth St.

Adamany said when he first took off after the Dodge, he though he was doing the right thing. I "just kept thinking: What about the next person? What if they didn't have a gun?" he said. "I think they were looking for a random person to shoot, honestly."

Read More: http://www.twincities.com/wisconsin/ci_23652611/milwaukee-pair-men-concealed-carry-permits-engage-shootout

Two entitled gun-addled idiots playing cops and robbers like children. Yet armed to the gills and encouraged to carry weapons.

Miracle no one was killed. And more concealed carry jackasses are better?

[99Forever]

1. Just another day in the life of ...

... a couple of reasonable, law-abiding, responsible gun owners.

[boston bean]

2. It's the wild west.

they want to return to the days where people meted out their own justice.

It's not good for a free open society for everyone to be responsible for their own safety by having a weapon that shoots lead.

[RandiFan1290]

3. Yeeehaw!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

4. Which one of these was the "good guy with a gun"?

[Iggo]

56. Both of 'em.

Gawd bless Amurrika!

[NYC_SKP]

5. They should be jailed and their weapons and permits permanently removed.

They are both incredibly stupid and a danger to their communities.

[11 Bravo]

6. I have a VA concealed carry permit and I totally agree with you. These two assholes ...

shouldn't be allowed to carry a fucking squirt gun!

[otohara]

47. Guns In Cars = Road Rage

back before the NRA stopped all studies on behavior and guns...they determined guns in cars make people more aggressive.

I'm scared to death knowing so many people have guns in their cars now. I'm scared for my son and his hippie friends living in the south.

[Mr. David]

59. Rip up your permit

and throw away your gun.

Now.

Bye.

[premium]

7. Fuckin idiots.

Agree with you.
Despite what the usual naysayers here say, this is not a representation of CHL holders.

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. Along with the idiotic reckless endangerment...

...these jackwagons also gave ammunition to the statistically-challenged peawits who try to imply that this behavior is in any way typical of permit holders.

[kestrel91316]

31. It sure is representative of two of them.

[Robb]

42. Touché. nt

[krispos42]

9. Because this is incredibly common, right?

Oh wait, it's not.

Congrats. After years of hair-on-fire screaming and screeching about this, years of dire predictions about how this would become COMMONPLACE...

...you finally found a case. Yay for your side.

[Robb]

10. "Years," krispos42?

Surely you have a link to a post, somewhere, where I've predicted any dire consequence from concealed carry.

Surely. Just one post? Maybe a single year old, even? I mean, I've been posting on DU for what, 12 years is it yet? 11?

You wouldn't be attempting to deflect, would you?

[krispos42]

62. Imperial you

As in "your side".

If you don't see any future dire consequences from legal concealed carry, can I count on your support for it?

[Starboard Tack]

53. Well, it was common enough that these 2 idiots should encounter each other

Let's face it, it's a numbers game, like any other fad or mass consumption craze. There inevitably comes a point of diminishing returns. Maybe that point will be when incidents like this start to outnumber the legitimate DGU's.
CC permits should require a thorough psych evaluation if these kinds of whackos are going to be filtered out.

[krispos42]

63. And how often does this happen?

Really?

Three dozen killed per day, on average. How often are one of them a CCW permittee killing another permittee who is stranger to him?


CCW DGUs are also a numbers game. Since only a small fraction of the population is carrying at any one time, the DGUs from such a population must therefore be proportional as well.

As CCW goes up, not only should DGUs go up, so should other numbers as well.



The most effective solution to reducing violence is drug legalization, which would also have numerous positive benefits aside from reducing negative liabilities.

It's like wanting to make our democracy work better by obsessing about voter fraud while completely ignoring election fraud, our antiquated two-party system, and voter suppression efforts.

Your odds of being killed by a CCW permittee who is a stranger to you are probably worse than being killed by a shark.

[geek tragedy]

54. Trayvon Martin would beg to differ. nt

[krispos42]

64. False equivalence.

He was not a CCW permittee.

[DiverDave]

67. Yeah?, what about this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023697360

Oh, just a random thing...

[krispos42]

68. So obviously, the tailgater should have killed the whole family...

...and then been arrested? That's somehow better?


Congrats. You've got two incidents in 3 months. In the intervening time, 3,700 people were murdered. 2,500 of them were murdered by people without a concealed-carry permit.

But keep focusing on the important stuff, right?

Maybe by flogging this stuff, you'll change America! Maybe you can convince nearly all of the 100 million gun owners in America to renounce guns, and destroy their guns in their garages before tossing them in the recycling bin!

Maybe you can change the culture of America!



Or, maybe, you can spend considerable money and political effort accomplishing nothing measurable.

Hard to tell, really.

[DiverDave]

69. Who said anything about killing the family?, oh, YOU DID

sad, you think you smacked me down?
Fail...oh and ignore also, so keep putting me down, I wont respond.

Oh, and why not have meaninful checks for, oh, mental illness before someone gets a cc permit?
What? to much?
Even schizophrenics deserve a gun?

Buy another gun, you'll feel better.

[krispos42]

70. I thought all CCW permittees were bloodthirsty killing machines?

You know, just aching for a chance to legally kill somebody?

And if you knew the law, you would know you need a squeaky-clean criminal record to get a permit.

So, you fail, and you run away, to boot. Try the echo chamber; you'll have more fun there.

Have fun being disconnected from reality.

[Hugabear]

11. This is not true

We all know that gun owners with concealed carry are responsible, law abiding citizens. At least that's what they tell us.

[Robb]

12. The High Priests of the Order of the Sacred Gun.

[mzteris]

13. I am so shocked!!

Isn't Concealed Carry supposed to make us all SAFER 'cause you never know who is carrying a gun so we'll all be "more civilized"?

[Robb]

14. No, see, all they have to do is roundly condemn the gunmen

after the fact.

Somehow that's good enough! Now on with arming the nation!

[mzteris]

18. not sure whether you're

being sarcastic, agreeing, or just being Robb!

I'm not anti-gun - I own them - but I think the premise that allowing people to carry them around will make us safer is faulty. Too many nutjobs and unstable types out there, ya know?

[onethatcares]

15. WTF is "mean mugged"??

I can't quite figure that one out.

Oh and while we're at it, Where the hell did the other rounds go? I'm sitting here at a desk, handgun in my grubby paws pointed over my left shoulder, trying to type while squeezing off 10 rounds, and I don't even have my desk in drive. Where did those rounds go??

[Robb]

16. Yeah, I had to Google that one.

Apparently there's tremendous depth to the level of victimization the well-regulated militia feel. Poor helpless de'ils.

[petronius]

21. I took it to mean 'stink eye' (i.e., a dirty look)

It takes a mind-boggling amount of chutzpah to include that in your explanation to police as to why you engaged in a gun-battle: "Yeah, the dude looked at me funny, so I opened fire. What? What else was I supposed to do?"

[Iggo]

57. "Mean mugged" would seem to me to be the same as "mad dogged."

[BainsBane]

17. That's not possible

because I learned from Gungeoneers that CCW holders never commit crimes. Any killings they commit are entirely justified.

[friendly_iconoclast]

22. You learned no such thing, and we both know it.

Let me guess, it was posted with those mysterious 'disappearing electrons' so there's no
evidence of it...

You'll find no support for these two dangerous fools here.

[BainsBane]

23. I believe you were the one

who responded to my post about the 506 killings by CCW holders by saying "that's better than the police." Like a CCW holders going to the grocery store is every bit as dangerous as what an active duty police officer's daily routine.

Time and time again gungeoneers insist CCW holders are all law abiding citizens and dismiss the possibility that they could commit a crime.


Now if you'll excuse me, I need to run an errand to the store. God only knows how I'll be able to make it back without a gun to protect me against teenage boys armed with Skittles.

[friendly_iconoclast]

25. "Time and time again gungeoneers insist CCW holders are all law abiding citizens...

...and dismiss the possibility that they could commit a crime."

Bullshit. There are five or so in this very thread telling people these two fools
need to do serious time, and I'm one of them.

Once again, there's a disconnect between 'what Gungeoneers say' and 'what you claim
Gungeoneers say', and that disconnect is not very flattering to you...

[AnotherMcIntosh]

35. You're right. I've also called him out on more than one occasion when he misstated what I said.

It seems to be a common tactic.

[BainsBane]

37. So what was your comment about the 506 killings being

in effect justified by saying they compared favorably to the police. Why, when I talked about the shooting outside my house, you all insisted it couldn't possibly be a CCW holder but it had to be a "drug dealer" and "gang banger," based on absolutely no evidence or information about the identity of the the shooter?

[friendly_iconoclast]

43. And once again, we are gifted by an evidence-free assertion.

you all insisted it couldn't possibly be a CCW holder but it had to be a "drug dealer" and "gang banger," based on absolutely no evidence or information about the identity of the the shooter?

All you need do is to link to someone saying that...

[friendly_iconoclast]

30. There's the thing about facts vs. opinion- Facts remain the same no matter how you feel about them.

And the fact remains that you are more likely to be unlawfully killed by a cop than
a CCW holder- and CCW holders outnumber cops about 5 or 6 to 1.

"Time and time again gungeoneers insist CCW holders are all law abiding citizens and dismiss the possibility that they could commit a crime."

I note that you studiously neglect to provide any examples of this purported 'insistence' when
you say this. Do you believe if you keep repeating this horseshit it will somehow become true?

[BainsBane]

39. Are you serious?

Wow, that is an amazing disconnect. How about this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023036569

Here Green Storm Cloud argues Stand Your Ground laws leads to justified homicides. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023036569#post18
So yes they kill, but they are entitled to kill. That is the prevailing belief, as your comment about having a better record than police demonstrates.

You all repeatedly argue that CCW holders are more responsible and law abiding that the general public.


Now that Z is acquitted, gun nuts will argue the killing of Trayvon Martin was justified (wee, gunner got off for killing a black kid). I bet the bottles of beer and champagne are opening as we speak, while some of the trigger-happy CCW holders around the country are about to leave the house and go hunting for their own black man to kill.

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. "You all repeatedly argue that CCW holders are more responsible and law abiding...

...tha(n) the general public." Because it's true, whether you like it or not- and that GSC
post you linked to demonstrates it:

Texas keeps and publishes those stats. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2011.pdf

For the year 2011:
Crime------------------------------------Total Convictions----CHL Holder Convictions---------------CHL Holder Percentage of Total
Agg Assault W/ Deadly Weapon-------------2,765---------------3------------------------------------0.1085%
Deadly Conduct (Includes non-fierarm)----1,353----------------9------------------------------------0.6652%
Deadly Conduct, Discharge Firearm-----------244----------------2-----------------------------------0.8197%

In 2011 there were 518,625 CHL holders. 2012 had 584,850.

As you can see there are a lot of us that have CHLs, but the offenders in that type of crime are in the single digits. None of them rise to 1% of the convictions. That is a far cry for your claimed 480% difference.

SYG & homicides. You assume that all homicides are wrong. Yes, SYG does lead to an increase in JUSTIFIED homices. That is to be expected. Criminals are more likely to suffer catastrophic failure of their victim selection program resulting inpermenant total system shutdown for the criminal. You slant the statement by omitting the word "justified"

Gee, not only are they safer to be around than the police, they're safer to be around than the public at large
(And no, 'moral harm' does not count)

Despite all your assertions to the contrary, no one denies CCW holders like the two idjits in the OP and
George Zimmerman exist- there's just not that many of them, and nowhere near the numbers you've claimed

[AnotherMcIntosh]

34. Another false statement from you that is attributed to others.

Why do you have to go beyond what is true? What compels you to make this stuff up?

[BainsBane]

38. Dude, you have the first prize for false statements

You are in NO position to talk.

[struggle4progress]

19. Whoa! So cool! Who doesn't secretly yearn for a more exciting America,

where any of us driving home Friday night could enjoy the spectacle of a high-speed freeway shoot, with bullets whizzing back and forth between cars, steam pouring from perforated radiators, shards of glass flying from shot-out windows, rubber peeling from flabby deflated tires, and the drivers distractedly trying to check the road while taking cold-blooded aim at one another?

Sure, the nervous nellies wring their hands and moan about innocent bystanders, but honestly! is anyone really innocent?

This is just good clean fun in the classic American tradition of cow-pokes shouting and shooting as they come to town or leave town. Yeah, a few lanterns wuz shot out, causing a fire that burned down the church, and the preacher is upset cuz his horse got spooked and ran off and broke its leg in a gopher hole and had to be put down, but he's always grumpy. And everybody is naturally sad that pretty young whore took a bullet in the eye when she looked out her window to see what was happening, but the undertaker sure dolled her up nice for display in his parlor window, and everybody came to give her a proper goodbye. It's silly to get all bent about it -- just some boys having fun

[Horse with no Name]

49. but...but...but...he LOOKED at him funny

so he was in fear of his life!!!

[arely staircase]

20. Two good guys with guns nt

[RC]

60. Twice the fun and games of just one good guy with a gun.

Just think of the wild party times when three get together... Hee-yeaaaahhh!!!1!!!!1
Survivors^* will be buried after a closed coffin wake.





^*Part of a joke I heard a long time ago and can't properly remember any more.

[arely staircase]

61. yeah the more the merrier nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. idiots

[Hoyt]

26. Heck, the NRA's Pres' son was convicted of same thing. Gun culture's gift to society.

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. In the end, Darwin wins.

Lets just hope they keep it betwixt themselves until then.

Blah.

[kestrel91316]

28. Expect a lot more of this over time. It's a return to the Wild West,

shootouts in the street.

[friendly_iconoclast]

33. Will there be blood in the streets?

[surrealAmerican]

29. Both these people belong in jail...

... and, one would hope, never be allowed to operate a gun or a car again.

[ileus]

32. I hardly ever carry more than one magazine.

This incident reminds all of us why 15 rounds mags are so nice if you're carrying a compact or full sized firearm.

[Robb]

41. That's really fascinating.

[Jessy169]

36. How much do you want to bet that the mean muggee mean mugged the mean mugger right back,

thinking he was a real tough dude with a gun too.

"Mean mugged" -- what the hell is that?! A dirty look?

[Skinner]

40. Good thing they both had guns.

Because if only one of them had a gun, the dude with the gun could shoot him and claim self-defense.

[Brewinblue]

44. Imagine the horror

had neither of them been armed.

[Robb]

45. There might've been untold additional minutes of grimacing!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

51. +++ !

[Gidney N Cloyd]

58. The mean mugging could have escalated to finger pointing or, god forbid, fist waving!

[susanna]

66. Or even the fabled "flipping of the bird,"

that quaint, archaic custom from back in the day...

These two idiots need to lose their drivers licenses AND carry permits, and that's the minimum.

[Sparkly]

46. Welcome to the Wild, Wild West!!!

[Ruby the Liberal]

48. Darwins Law will start thinning the horde

[sigmasix]

52. teabagging america with gundamentalist glee!

[Warpy]

55. How many times have we heard gun besotted idiots utter the phrase

"an armed society is a polite society?" Hundreds? Thousands? They even say it in the gungeon here.

When is it going to happen? When all the gunloons have managed to shoot each other or when enough of us get caught in the daily crossfire to throw the NRA out of the government for good?

[apnu]

65. Welcome to the wild west America (nt)