Man uses his fully automatic AR15 as a crutch kills little girl upstairs

[Ichingcarpenter]

An Oregon man told police he was using his assault rifle as a crutch to help him get up from a couch at a friend's apartment when it fired a burst through the ceiling and killed a little girl upstairs, court records show.

A police affidavit said Jon Andrew Meyer Jr. told investigators the gun went off accidentally June 27 at the Grants Pass apartment, the Grants Pass Daily Courier reported.
Defense lawyer Gary Berlant adds Meyer had been assured the gun was not fully automatic.


Meyer is being held on $250,000 bail on charges of manslaughter, assault and unlawful possession of a machine gun.


Authorities say he was responsible for the reckless burst of rifle fire that killed 5-year-old Alysa Bobbitt of Shady Cove and wounded apartment resident Karen Hancock.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362493/Jon-Andrew-Meyer-Jr-using-rifle-crutch-fired-killed-Alysa-Bobbitt.html#ixzz2YwicjCkz

[RC]

1. "...reckless burst of rifle fire..." Full auto?

How else could there be a burst of fire, as opposed to a single shot?

[Hoyt]

6. Probably acquired it at gun show or back alley, previous "law-abiding" owner modified it.

[Warpy]

25. Looks like it, "posession of a machine gun."

There wasn't much left of that little girl, I'll bet.

Now they have to figure out where such a total fuckwit got hold of one.

[rhett o rick]

54. Machine guns are legal in Oregon if properly registered. Just sayin. nm

[tblue]

60. Why the hell was it loaded?

[RC]

66. It's more exciting that way.

You never know what will happen. Why you might even get to be the center of attention for a while, to show off your masochism for all to see. Although that confined shuffling from the chains around your ankles does interfere with the swagger a bit.

(Not you you, but you know what I mean)

[Duckhunter935]

67. ALL weapons are loaded

[Jackpine Radical]

77. As a matter of principle, and as the product of a rural gun culture,

I've always been more worried about loaded gunners than loaded guns. However, my own guns are never loaded unless I'm actually hunting or something.

[Duckhunter935]

82. Yes I should have clarified

Mine are never loaded until range time. Should have said all weapons should be treated as being loaded.

[Jackpine Radical]

83. I fully understood what you meant.

That isn't really what triggered my response. I was having a flashback to drunken Illinois hunters in Wisconsin's north woods.

These days, they'd probly run into a guard patrol from /Gogebic Mining or something. It would make for an interesting firefight, if nothing else.

[leveymg]

2. As a crutch . . . kills the girl upstairs. Was he walking on the ceiling?

He had been assured it wasn't fully automatic? Can one even count how many inconsistencies are in this story?

[BrotherIvan]

14. The wording is bad

But I understand it to mean that he was probably holding the LOADED gun, muzzle up and when he wanted to get his fat ass off the couch to get another beer, he leaned on it to pull himself up. I thought the same as you at first, he's using it like crutches? How the hell would that work, it's not long enough, and how would it shoot up at the ceiling?

Too bad the fucker didn't blow his own head off.

[xtraxritical]

41. Just another responsible assault rifle owner, until the instant he's NOT and

a child dies. I'm sure this guy would not qualify with a background check imo.

[otohara]

108. Is The Girl Not Dead?

I know us non-gun folks get it all wrong when it comes the the hundreds of various gun types available and the gun folks
get so mad.

[Hoyt]

3. Hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.

[gulliver]

4. Identify these people and expose them on the Internet

Don't hire them if they apply for jobs. Fire them if they work for you. (Make up a reason other than that they possess pervert-level weaponry to avoid 2nd Amendment thorns.) Divorce them. Shun them and their families.

[Deep13]

19. There's no civil right against discriminating against...

...smokers, golfers, people who say "irregardless," accordion-players, or gun owners.

[xtraxritical]

42. I love it! How about "acutally" and "you know" too?

[Deep13]

74. Yes, that would be apropos. nt

[hack89]

45. Good luck with that. nt

[liberal N proud]

5. Everyone should use an AR15 as a crutch.

[Deep13]

15. When my foot hurts, I like to hobble around on an expensive, illegal, deadly weapon.

It makes so much more sense than say a cane.

[Brewinblue]

70. God and the Constitution

clearly instruct us to do so.

[Deep13]

75. The right to keep and bear presently non-existant assult rifles as improvised...

...orthopedic devices, whatever that might be, shall not be infringed.

[BainsBane]

86. That's in the Second Amendment

along with killing unarmed black teenagers on their way home from buying candy.

[Duckhunter935]

7. why do you not use the correct headline at link?

Man was using his rifle as a crutch when it fired through a ceiling killing a little girl in the room above

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. Title too long

The story came out of Oregon but is a subscriber site.

WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

THIS IS NOT LBNs its GD.

[noamnety]

61. Ha, gotta love that passive voice

Yes, the rifle - having a mind of its own - fired itself through a ceiling and killed a child.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

63. "journalists" spin subtly,

but spin they do.

[Thinkingabout]

76. Does your version correct the death of a little girl?

[BainsBane]

87. Why do you feel compelled to defend every idiot with a gun?

It doesn't help your cause.

[johnp3907]

8. When people say "resposible gun owner..."

...do they mean "responsible" for atrocities?

[xtraxritical]

44. ^THAT^'s good!

[truebluegreen]

106. Excellent queston!

[Duckhunter935]

9. hopefully to jail for a long time

If he did modify an AR-15 to full auto. Not that easy with models in the last 25 years. Receivers are not milled for the auto sear.

[Just Saying]

28. Hopefully to jail for a long time

Regardless if modified or who did it.

His dangerous and irresponsible actions with a firearm killed an innocent young girl.

[bettyellen]

93. he fucked up, and there are no "ifs' that cover the magnitude of his reckless depraved

behavior. Look elsewhere if you want to find excuses for this complete piece of shit.

[Deep13]

10. moron, idiot, dumbass, imbecile, shit-for-brains, apes-point-at-you-and-say-"who's-the-dumb-guy?"

first, you need a Federal license for a machine gun--so that's felony-murder or depraved-heart murder right there. (manslaughter? really?)

2nd, every gun is loaded--in this case you and your neighbor's kid found out the hard way.

3rd, never load a gun until you are ready to shoot.

4th never, ever point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy. Did you mean to tear up your ceiling and the neighbor's floor without regard to whomever might be standing on it?

5th, once you realized that your painful stupidity has killed a child, the only way you can possibly apologize for this Supreme Sultan of all Fuck Ups is to fire one more shot into what we will charitably call your brain.

[rdharma]

18. 6th, if you have a restraining order against you for threatening to kill your fiancee.....

........ you probably shouldn't have a gun!

[Deep13]

21. Wow, already a history of violence.

That should have told him that he was out of control and to get his shit together before he killed someone.

[adieu]

39. Good example of the uselessness of a gun

A gun, when used appropriately, kills people. And kills people when used inappropriately.

/Really? As a crutch? Loaded? Too bad it didn't shoot himself in the head.

[Deep13]

73. I shoot paper targets at ranges.

I like the challenge and the mechanical aspects. That is literally all the shooting I ever do. That is not a good enough reason to allow things that lead to things like this. The NRA has outright lied to me and many others for decades. In hindsight, I was foolish to believe that such dangerous instruments could ever be safe for civilian ownership. Hell, they didn't even have to be safe. A band saw isn't safe, but its danger is easily managed. When there is trouble with a power tool or a car it doesn't murder school children or teachers. Only semi-auto, high-cap pistols and rifles can cause a New Town, a Ft. Hood, or a Virginia Tech.

Humorous side note, your statement about guns reminds me of what C. Everett Coup used to say about cigarettes: the only consumer product that when used as directed kills you.

[adieu]

81. There's a circular table saw

that has this mechanism that stops the blade immediately once it detects skin. The proof is in the pudding, the maker of the saw has it running and puts his finger onto the rotating blade. It stops immediately. Pretty damn amazing.

I agree that target practice is about the extent of usefulness of a gun. But the point is that target practice is "practice". It's not really using the gun in the sense that rehearsing is not acting or music playing.

[Deep13]

91. Well, for me it is both practice and end result itself.

The point is to make one tiny hole in a paper circle that I can barely see. When I go target shooting, it is both the act itself and practice. So it's like practicing the clarinet while also performing for the same time.

As far as ARs go for a target rifle, I'll let you in on a secret. They su-u-u-uck. Now, I know some guys put all kinds of modifications in them to make them range friendly, but you kind of have to and that's what I mean. They are built to be light and tough and those qualities cut into bench rest accuracy. My bolt action .223 weighs twice as much and costs half as much as an AR, and its ease of use and accuracy attest to that. And when I'm done, I remove the bolt and cleaning is easy. An AR is a nightmare to keep clean with all it's internal parts that make it semi-auto. Plus all that aluminum and plastic will never look as good as polished wood grain.

[BrotherIvan]

11. ENOUGH! FUCKING ENOUGH!!

Jesus Christ, it's stories like these that I can't take any more. I won't fucking listen to any equivocating about gun control any longer and this has become an issue on which I will not budge. I don't give a fuck about your hobby or your lifestyle. Killing machines must be kept out of idiots' hands and since that is the overwhelming majority of the population, that means everyone. This totally blows apart the new NRA talking point that only the mentally ill kill kids. No gun nuts with guns kill kids. Gun nuts who leave their guns around so kids find them and kill other kids. Guns kill, period.

Knee-jerk reaction, you bet. No more fucking kids should die. NO MORE.

I will not vote for any candidate that waffles on gun control, just as I would never vote for any candidate who isn't a vocal advocate of women's and civil rights (with some unfortunate and unforseen exceptions). I don't care if you're a D or a Green or a Flower Loving Hippie, if you don't advocate for serious gun control, I will not support you.

In expectation of the nutter deluge coming shortly, I'll say in advance, I will not budge on this position, so save your energy please.

[Deep13]

23. I'm starting to think that those who lust after guns...

...ipso facto are more dangerous than the general public and for that reason should not own any firearms. Clearly the responsible, law abiding gun owner is horseshit. Everyone is responsible and law-abiding until he commits a crime.

[Hoyt]

31. I agree. If one covets these weapons, they should not be allowed to own one. A valid Catch 22.

[BrotherIvan]

36. Or until his kid or drunk cousin gets a hold of his weapons

As I said in a refreshingly civil discussion with a self-proclaimed DU gun nut, I favor a Canadian system. Single-shot hunting rifles and shotguns for home security. I know this will lead to some nutter shouting, but plenty of hunters have said that semi-autos are not necessary for hunting, just means you're a poor shot. And that shotguns are the most effective for home defense or from wild animals in rural areas. Everything else is pure laziness. If you think you're some rugged outdoor cowboy, then you should be limited to the guns they carried. The pioneers didn't have hi-tech military weapons. Show your manhood or womanhood and turn in your guns.

[Deep13]

72. Well, I'm a bit of a gun nut myself, but the public good...

... and the right of children to be able to sit in a classroom without being shot outweighs any hobby concerns. I think there should be a Federal tax on makers of high capacity, semi-auto firearms in order to compensate those like me who purchased ARs, AKs, other military pattern variants, and high-cap pistols in good faith believing the NRA's responsible gun owner myth. Maybe I should have known it was a lie, but I didn't. Meanwhile, I will continue to enjoy my low-power .22 target guns, revolvers, and cowboy-style rifles at a regulated shooting range. Also, traditional-style archery. I'm getting into that.

[BrotherIvan]

79. Archery

Now that takes real skill. Gun nuts with their semi automatics want to just look like Rambo, but they miss the part where Rambo could shoot an arrow. You're an interesting gun person too and your statements are very thought provoking. Thanks.

[rdharma]

12. Threatened to kill fiance........

"Court records say his fiancee had kicked him out of her place, getting a restraining order, and he listed his current residence as his sister's home."

[Cooley Hurd]

27. ...yet this asshole can CONTINUE to own a dangerous firearm?

Restraining order should be the thing that gets his gun taken away.

[rdharma]

38. The problem is...... there is no way to determine what guns this a-hole owns...

No registration required under current laws.

[reusrename]

47. Holy crap.

He did this at his sister's place?

This guy should never get out of jail.

[NYC_SKP]

13. Lock him the hell up. For a long time.

Meyer listed his occupation as lead bouncer at a Mexican restaurant, where he has worked for two years.

Though his fiancee, Victoria Kohout, told authorities that Meyer was a ‘big teddy bear,’ her June 20 petition for the restraining order described him as an ‘unpredictable drug addict’ who had threatened her with a gun, and threatened to burn down her house, slash her tires and break the windows on her car.

The judge noted in the file that Meyer had four guns.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2362493/Jon-Andrew-Meyer-Jr-using-rifle-crutch-fired-killed-Alysa-Bobbitt.html#ixzz2YwoLbCNP
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[KamaAina]

32. "Lead bouncer"?

Do they have a conga line of bouncers?

Next time I'm in Grants Pass, I think I'll stay away from Mexican.

[NYC_SKP]

37. What kind of Mexican restaurant needs a team of bouncers?

Maybe the one in "From Dusk Till Dawn"?

[jtuck004]

71. The judge could have scheduled a hearing and taken those guns.

They have the power in nearly any state to do that, if they care to, or aren't too lazy. And in some jurisdictions it's automatic. You have a right to bear arms, but there are considerations of public safety which the courts have already ruled override your personal rights.

And here is an idiot who has threatened a woman with a gun - what better candidate? That judge ought to bear some responsibility for this...

[BainsBane]

88. I second that.

[firenewt]

16. I think this asshole should use his AR15 as a toothbrush.

[Initech]

17. The words "fucking dumbass" do not accurately describe this man.

[MissDeeds]

59. Exactly

Of course it had to be some innocent child who paid for his reckless and irresponsible behavior. If this was a just world, he would have blown his own ass to kingdom come. Sorry...I'm just fed up with innocent people being killed.

[olddots]

22. I don't think the gunnies can come up with charts & graphs for this

look here on chart #4 and see how low the percentage of deaths is while using your AR15 as a crutch .

[caballojm]

24. I'm normally anti-death penalty,

but I don't think it would take much to convince me otherwise in this case. Asshole.

[Cooley Hurd]

26. $250K for bail is appropriate, given his abject stupidity using a dangerous weapon as a prop.

[99th_Monkey]

29. This metaphorical image is staggeringly revealing ...

It really captures how weak-minded psychologically crippled fools
use firearms as a psychological crutch, to try to hide and compensate
for their "disability".

This tragedy is so avoidable, so unnecessary, so sad.

I only hope this is not lost on otherwise decent people who still think
the NRA and their ilk are anything but evil.

Gun nuts are dangerous fools.

[Ichingcarpenter]

35. Yeah the 'crutch' set me thinking the same

but I wanted to wait to see if others got it.

Sad

[allin99]

30. that is heartbreaking. :(. that poor family of the child. :(

[jonthebru]

34. Dumb fuck.

[naaman fletcher]

40. An ar-15 is not fully automatic. Nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. Illegal machine gun... read

the story came out of Oregon which is a subscrier they said it was a modified ar15

[naaman fletcher]

56. Ah ok

Thanks

[xtraxritical]

46. Well doesn't that make a BIG fucking difference Mr. Expert!

[naaman fletcher]

57. I didn't say it makes a difference nt.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

48. The coward ran away afterwards.

[another_liberal]

49. He should be forced . . .

Of course he didn't know it was capable of full automatic fire. I bet he had just purchased it for use as a handy crutch and never had occasion to take it to the gun range, right?

This bastard knows what he bought, and he should be forced to tell police who sold him a completely illegal, fully automatic assault rifle.

[Bay Boy]

50. I'm going to defend the guy...

...no I'm not. Lock him up.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

51. Is it more likely that this "bouncer" was using his gun as he described it or that he otherwise

was drunkenly and irresponsibility firing his weapon towards the ceiling?

Supposedly, his occupation is that of being a bouncer at a Mexican resturant.

Why would a restaurant need a bouncer?

Why would a bouncer need a fully automatic rifle?

Why would a bouncer who discharged a fully automatic rifle towards a ceiling need a cover story?

[another_liberal]

53. Why?

Maybe he's afraid of what will happen if he squeals on the guy who sold it to him?

[SheilaT]

52. Yet another example of why I'm in favor of

the confiscation of guns.

I know, the gun apologists will once again jump all over me and point out that no matter how many are killed or maimed by guns every day, every week, every month, every year, it's such a miniscule fraction of the population that the numbers hardly matter.

I agree with the poster who said too bad this idiot hadn't shot off his own head.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

55. Under that reasoning, if the family of the shooting victim owns a firearm for self-defense in their

home, you or others should take their firearm away from them.

Good luck on that.

The reason why that is not going to happen is because it illogical.

[BainsBane]

89. Yeah, because a gun would have really protected her from

the nutter's crutch? Ave Maria.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

92. Obviously not. That would be a stupid belief. As stupid as believing that the family's gun, if any,

should be taken away.

It's not going to happen. You are not going to make it happen. You can be as frustrated as you want to be, but you're not going to make it happen because people of good sense realize that it is illogical.

[BainsBane]

94. I never said I wanted to confiscate your pathetic guns

Get a grip.

What information do you have that the victim even had a gun? None, she was 5 yrs old, but don't let that stop you from randomly spewing pro-gun propaganda. Heaven forbid a death go by without seizing the opportunity to generate profits for the gun industry.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

95. Only a person with a reading comprehension problem would seriously claim to believe that

(1) you said, quote, "I wanted to confiscate your pathetic guns" and (2) anyone ever said to have information "that the victim even had a gun."

Both are obviously not true.

Fiction works for you -- in your mind. In the real world, it doesn't.

[BainsBane]

96. talk about reading comprehension problems

Check the name of the poster who said that. Sad. Truly sad.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

99. You say, "Check the name of the poster who said that."

OK.

I'll accept that challenge.

Someone by the name BainsBane (that's you) falsely said by implication at #94 that I believed or claimed to believe that you wanted to somehow confiscate "pathetic guns". I never said that. You are the one who raised that false issue by implication while saying "I never said I wanted to confiscate your pathetic guns."

In addition, no one said that the victim had a gun. But again, someone by the name BainsBane (again that's you) falsely said by implication at #94 that I said that. I never said that. You are the one who raised that false issue by implication while saying "What information do you have that the victim even had a gun?"

It's an old tactic to falsely attribute words that were never said to someone else. Why aren't you better at it? Excuse me, but I think that your efforts are pathetic.

[BainsBane]

100. Yeah, I didn't think you were mature or confident enough to admit you're wrong

I was not the one who talked about confiscating guns. You said something about confiscating the victim's guns, which is entirely irrelevant to this case. You accused me of arguing for confiscation of guns when I NEVER have and I certainly didn't in this thread.

You write:

It's an old tactic to falsely attribute words that were never said to someone else. Why aren't you better at it? Excuse me, but I think that your efforts are pathetic.

Yes, unfortunately you don't follow your own admonition.

Let's review your own words:

Obviously not. That would be a stupid belief. As stupid as believing that the family's gun, if any,

should be taken away.

It's not going to happen. You are not going to make it happen. You can be as frustrated as you want to be, but you're not going to make it happen because people of good sense realize that it is illogical.

I never said anything like that. You fabricated that from whole cloth.

You continued to commit the most blatant falsification

Only a person with a reading comprehension problem would seriously claim to believe that

(1) you said, quote, "I wanted to confiscate your pathetic guns" and (2) anyone ever said to have information "that the victim even had a gun."

Both are obviously not true.

Fiction works for you -- in your mind. In the real world, it doesn't.

Above you omitted the word NEVER. I wrote, "I NEVER said I wanted to confiscate your pathetic guns." http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3246136

Here is the post from the person who mentioned gun confiscation.

The name is not BainsBane. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3243612

I find that people who cannot admit there are wrong display profound intellectual insecurity. So be it. I didn't expect anything better from you. I see no reason why the truth would matter to you now when it never has before.

[BainsBane]

104. No, I'll give you full credit on that one.

I actually feel sorry for you. You really have absolutely no ability to admit a mistake. You blatantly distorted what I said and you no capacity to admit it. How sad. I'm starting to understand why you feel a need to carry a gun all the time.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. Let us know when you've signed up for the confiscation squads, mmkay?

[BainsBane]

90. Well, this should give you something to complain about all month

I can just see the sense of satisfaction through the computer screen. Now you can blame any failure of the next background check bill on that DUer.


Sorry for the edits. I'm subliterate today.

[friendly_iconoclast]

102. Oh, not at all; that post serves to confirm something I've always felt:

90% of 'gun control activism' consists of decrying guns and/or gun owners on various
Internet fora.

Get out and actually do something (like Gabby Giffords, for example)? Hell, no!
Promoting cultural stereotypes and keeping a smug sense of superiority are so
much more fun...

[BainsBane]

105. 90%?

Provide evidence of that. Where is YOUR proof?

[friendly_iconoclast]

107. Note my use of 'felt', instead of 'known as a fact'.

Last edited Sun Jul 14, 2013, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

There's a difference between 'a feeling' and 'known fact', and it's an important one.

[BainsBane]

109. That you think it's all about you

is really the problem. That's the problem with gun ideology in general: a complete inability to see beyond gunners own interests. Your sense of importance is exaggerated. The only reason you have influence is because you are allied with one of the most powerful corporate lobbies in the nation. Like everything else in America, the gun issue is fundamentally about corporate profits over the rights of citizens.

[friendly_iconoclast]

111. Au contraire, I think it's about people who talk a lot but generally do little.

That's the problem with gun ideology in general: a complete inability to see beyond gunners own interests.

I wish that people in general were as vigilant about enumerated civil rights as gun owners have had to be-
do the terms "NSA" and "Fourth Amendment" mean anything to you? Rights that are neglected tend
to go away after a while.

The only reason you have influence is because you are allied with one of the most powerful corporate lobbies in the nation.

Ever hear of an organization called the National Rifle Association? They've got four million members, and they're
fairly adamant about voting. The best you lot can come up with is the Brady Campaign, and IIRC they've
got about 100,000 members on a good day. Throw in the rest of the antigun .orgs, and you'd maybe have
200,000 people.

So even if the NRA never got dime one from any corporation, they would still outnumber their opponents
about 20:1. Telling yourself "it's the corporations!" might be comforting, but I doubt it's accurate.

[Egalitarian Thug]

110. You probably won't like it, but I'm with you. Just start with the cops.

They can keep special units like SWAT to deal with any real need that arises, but otherwise ban them for everybody including police forces.

[PD Turk]

58. Arrested, good

Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law. Reckless criminal with an illegal weapon..... No plea bargains!!!

[Javaman]

64. morons with guns. nt

[benld74]

65. Prayers for Alysa!!!!

[Robb]

68. "Authorities say he was responsible..."

Another responsible gun owner.

[struggle4progress]

69. note to self: maybe seek expert opinion on safe use of bazooka as pogo-stick

[malaise]

78. He's a 'moran' and a murderer

[TheBlackAdder]

80. He'll get off! He was getting up. He'll try using the STAND YOUR GROUND defense. nt

[gristy]

84. went off accidentally?

That was no accident. That gun went off negligently.

[BainsBane]

85. Good Lord. They get dumber by the minute

Hey, gun nut. Unload your crutch!

[Doctor_J]

97. statistically that girl's never been safer

Another responsible gun owner. until today, anyway.

[Niceguy1]

103. this week on pacifica

They were discussing the 20 yeat decline in homicide rates forn young adults and children. Even though you were being sarcastic you were telling the truth.

[Liberal_in_LA]

98. gotta be careful'with those guns