Q&A with Glenn Greenwald: Americans’ reaction “surprising and gratifying”

[Catherina]

Saturday, Jul 13, 2013

Q&A with Glenn Greenwald: Americans’ reaction “surprising and gratifying”

Glenn Greenwald discusses how Americans see Snowden, and details the non-U.S. world's anger at NSA privacy invasion
By Falguni A. Sheth

...

GLENN GREENWALD: Well, Washington has proven, over and over, that they’re not bothered by the fact that what they’re doing and thinking is completely at odds with mass sentiments of the public that they pretend to represent. So the mere gap between public opinion and what they’re doing isn’t, in and of itself, enough to change their behavior. But what they do start to respond to is serious pressure on the part of the American public over some of the things that they’re doing, and you do see some movement in Congress already to start to institute reforms, to put checks on these surveillance abuses. But I think that ultimately the real issue is the top levels of the Obama administration repeatedly went to Congress and lied to the faces of Congress, which is a felony, over what these NSA programs were and weren’t. And ultimately, I think the first step is going to have to be, are we willing to tolerate having top-level Obama officials blatantly lie to our representatives in Congress and prevent them from exercising oversight about these spying programs? And that, I think, has to be the first scandal to show that there are actually consequences for this behavior.

...

GLENN GREENWALD: Right. The relationship between the private telecoms and Internet companies and the NSA is one of the crucial components of this entire story. The NSA really can’t do that much spying domestically or internationally without the ongoing cooperation of these private corporations. So with the revelations that we’ve published in the past week and a half – with Laura Poitras reporting in Der Spiegel about mass spying in Germany, in Europe, and the reporting that I did with O Globo in Brazil about a similar collection of communications in Brazil and Latin America, more broadly – the linchpin of all of this is that there’s some large telecommunication company, an American company, exploiting their partnership with foreign telecommunications companies to use their access to those countries’ systems to direct traffic back to NSA repositories. Domestically, the same thing is happening. All these companies like to say they only cooperate with the bare minimum way under the law with the NSA, but what the documents we published yesterday and reported on demonstrate is that Microsoft has continuous and ongoing meetings with the NSA about how to build and construct new methods for enabling unfettered access to the calls and emails and Internet communications that the NSA specifies that they want, and the technicians at Microsoft work hand-in-hand with the technicians at NSA to enable that, and that is really at odds with the public statements Microsoft and Skype and Outlook have made to their users about what they’re doing to protect their privacy.

...

GLENN GREENWALD: Everywhere else in the world, the focus is on the actual substance of the revelations, which is why should we allow the U.S. and its allied governments to construct a ubiquitous spying system that basically destroys privacy globally for everyone on the planet who uses electronic means to communicate. And in Brazil, ever since we published these stories last weekend about mass spying on Brazilians by the millions, in terms of emails and phone calls, it has completely dominated the news cycle of the political class. Not just in Brazil, but in Latin America generally there are formal criminal investigations underway to determine the culpability of Brazilian telecoms, to find out the identity of the U.S. telecom who enabled all this mass access into the telecommunication systems of Latin America. There’s real indignation and a genuine debate over privacy that is taking place throughout the world, much, much more serious and more substantive and profound than the one that has been led by American journalists inside the U.S.

...

You know the thing that has struck me the most about this whole last six weeks of political discourse, obviously I’ve been most focused — to the exclusion of almost everything else — on the NSA stories, is the idea that somehow Snowden is illegitimate for seeking asylum in countries like Venezuela or Nicaragua or Ecuador or traveling through Russia and China in order to get there, at the very same time the United States continues to maintain this incredibly oppressive lawless prison system at Guantanamo where people are dying from having been in prison for over a decade, with no charges of any kind, to the point where they’re actually committing suicide virtually through a hunger strike in protest of the helplessless of their situation.
During the same six weeks we’ve killed dozens of people again with drone strikes, have propped up the most oppressive dictators in the world. And the refusal to focus on how oppressive we are to Muslims around the world, specifically, and human beings generally, is just incredibly striking as we sit there and rail against and mock other countries for their supposed human rights abuses. At the same time we are supportive of — or at best apathetic to — the much more severe ones of our own government, and I think Ramadan is a perfect time to reflect on that, given how the vast bulk of that oppression and violence and aggression over the last decade has been borne by Muslims around the world.

...

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/13/qa_with_glenn_greenwald_americans_reaction_surprising_and_gratifying/

[hr]

Endless War ?@Endless_War 4h

@Thomas_Drake1 Are you surprised by the ferocity of the USA's persecution of Snowden?

Thomas Drake ?@Thomas_Drake1

.@Endless_War Not at all, given my own experience under boot of NatSec Surveillance State. US gov't wants #Snowden out of sight in worst way

https://twitter.com/Thomas_Drake1/status/356075376457424897

[xchrom]

1. du rec.

[woo me with science]

3. Superb commentary.

Each paragraph covers a different, critical point. They really could be covered in separate OP's to give each the attention it deserves.

[merrily]

10. Almost every sentence could be a topic of discussion.

I disagree that they are addressing anything, though. I think it's cosmetic bs.

[MjolnirTime]

2. Glenn Greenwald. The most important man on Earth? or the most important man in the Universe??

[burnodo]

4. More important than you

thats for sure

[Maximumnegro]

5. You can do better than that.

Come on.

[burnodo]

6. I think you meant to address that to the poster above me

[forestpath]

7. knr

[jtuck004]

8. What would be quite funny is if he is brought back, and is actually allowed a trial,

(which despite all the talk about rights I am not sure is a foregone conclusion) and is acquitted. Which, frankly, is a real possibility, given the right attorney - and there would be several very good one lined up for the privilege.

[merrily]

9. How long was Manning in prison, nude and without blankets before his trial?

And, since Manning had reported, before he was accused of anything, that he thought he might be transgendered, the nudity was probably a huge issue for him emotionally.

I don't think acquittal is a real possibility for Snowden, either.

[woo me with science]

11. Remember that Ellsberg in 1971 was released on bond

after exposing the Pentagon Papers. Not a single one among us thinks that could ever have happened here. Not today. Not in this nation under this government. I actually had an apologist tell me that she *doubted* he'd be tortured if returned. I was supposed to take that as a defense of America. That she DOUBTED he'd be tortured.

This is how sick the debate has become, with the constant drumbeat of propaganda normalizing what should be unconscionable in the United States of America.

Mass surveillance of citizens, by our own government, in the United States of America, is still unconscionable.

[merrily]

12. Both Ellsberg and Ayers got off entirely because of prosecutorial misconduct.

I doubt that would happen today, either.

But, Snowden is going to do whatever he can do to stay alive and who can blame him?

I worry sometimes that this is taking attention from the Trans Pacific Partnershp.

[Laelth]

13. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[ReRe]

14. K&R

I personally hope Snowden doesn't choose to stay in Russia. I don't trust them anymore than I trust our own evil Corporation (er Corporate government, i.e.) which I don't trust at all. Thanks for the news, Cat.