Zimmerman apologists completely and absolutely disgust me

[CatWoman]

If this thread gets locked, i'm ok with that.

But after reading all the pretzel logic, mistruths posed as "fact" and sheer and utter disregard of the real facts, I just had to get this out there.

The same people who had their minds made up at the outset of Zimmerman's "innocence" are making the exact same accusations towards those tending to believe in his guilt.

[Rex]

1. Gun humpers cannot stand the fact that Zimmerman is going down

for murdering Martin in Cold blood. The only justice they believe in, is gun justice.

[Duckwraps]

58. What is a gun humper Rex?

[malokvale77]

126. Pizza Pizza

[Boomerproud]

138. Someone who loves their weapon as if it's a living being.

[calimary]

68. I HOPE he's going down.

Sure seems like a cold-blooded killing to me, based on everything I've seen, heard, and read. Understanding even just a little teeny bit about this guy's mentality. Judge-jury-executioner-in-chief, one-stop-shopping, and self-anointed, to boot. All the conversation about "reasonable doubt." I just don't see ANY doubt here, reasonable or not. Trayvon Martin's "crime," it seems, was walking outside on a rainy night while black. According to this asshole who clearly seems to have concluded as much and took the law into his own hands.

But knowing how these things somehow go - I'm just hoping for manslaughter. Dear God, if this thug gets off - who's his next target? Is ANY black person safe in the neighborhood around this guy? Because he'll view this as approval of what he did. Justification for what he did. Validation of what he did. And others like him will take away that same conclusion. Which scares the livin' daylights outta me!

I live in California. This is in Florida. But I don't feel safe. There are self-anointed vigilantes everywhere. MORE innocent victims will pay for this, if George Zimmerman doesn't have to.

[tblue]

164. It sets a horrifying precedent:

Person A (who has a gun) in some way antagonizes Person B.

Person B (no gun) reacts by either retaliating or trying to get away from Person A,

Person A "feels" that reaction threatens his life or great bodily harm.

Person A shoots Person B dead, claiming self-defense.

There are no other witnesses.

QUESTION: So what is to stop anyone with a weapon from starting a confrontation???

[Pelican]

212. The difference lies with the action person B takes...

... if they try and get away then no harm no foul.

If they retaliate it has to be in reasonable proportion. Walking in the same direction doesn't usually cut it and I think the jury felt that Martin acted disproportionately and initiated the violence.

[AgingAmerican]

233. Not at all

The Jury couldn't find Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, given the way the evidence was presented. It doesn't meant they believe Zimmerman was innocent.

[Keefer]

252. How does person B

Know person A has a gun?

[BainsBane]

110. What it really is

is that Zimmerman did exactly what they would like to do.

No, I am not talking about DUers but the general gun humping universe.

[Horse with no Name]

2. It really doesn't seem like this case is as complicated as it is being made out to be

and if a black man chased a white kid with Skittles and the kid ended up dead (whether he threw a punch or not)...said black man would already be in jail with a First degree murder conviction. There would be outrage that a grown man could do that to an innocent child.

It really makes me very ill to think about it in this light because we ALL know that it is true.

[The Magistrate]

3. I Agree, Ma'am

Their entire 'case' sums up as 'Black teenage boys are no damn good and dangerous to boot, they'll jump you before you can think and all you can do is kill 'em'.

I am very tired of it.

[CatWoman]

7. it could have been my grandson

my nephew, my brother.

And I don't now or ever have felt so threatened by any of them to want to shoot them.

This is something that escapes them.

[hlthe2b]

4. I'm with you, CatWoman...n/t

[countingbluecars]

5. Very true. nt.

[Honeycombe8]

6. Do you have some names to give us? I have not seen one post of anyone who decided at the outset

that GZ was "innocent."

I DID see quite a few who declared him guilty at the outset, before the evidence was out.

I've also posted clarifications, and corrected other posters on their misunderstandings of the evidence and of the trial process, only to be accused of being a Zimmerman "apologist."

I work in the legal field. I have followed this case closely, and yet....I will be the first to say I don't know ALL the evidence. Yet there are many who are ignorant of basic evidence in the case, yet KNOW that GZ is guilty of murder.

I've maintained for some time, and still do, that I would have to sit in a jury room and deliberate the evidence with other jurors before I'd know for sure how I'd vote. I would vote either Manslaughter or Not Guilty. I have not seen enough of the type of evidence that would lead to a Murder 2 verdict.

[CatWoman]

8. it's against DU rules to call out people by names

but of course, you already knew that.

[Honeycombe8]

30. Nope. I see posts that link to "example" posts occasionally. There's no problem w/that.

If you have a link.

I saw a couple of posts where people have declared, at this late stage, that they think GZ is Not Guilty, from the evidence presented. But those weren't posts from the outset.

[Ruby the Liberal]

47. You mean like this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3244247

And this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3244277

Or this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3244287

And never mind this nonsense (GZ didn't even KILL Trayvon):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3244859

Those are all in the last few hours...

[crim son]

78. Thanks for doing the research.

I've seen many pro-Z posts since the night he murdered T but don't spend much time here and therefore don't pay a lot of attention to screen names.

[Ruby the Liberal]

146. That is just the claptrap blather I ran into late this afternoon...

[byronius]

249. This poster is all over the place, doin' the 'What Me, Gloatin'?' It's disgusting, dark, puerile.

Bleah.

[LuvNewcastle]

251. It's really disgusting that they couldn't wait a few days

to do that shit. Everybody feels like shit about it today. They could at least let people process it and let the wound scab over, but no, they've got to come on here today and rub salt in it. It's pretty sick.

[Caretha]

143. I guess Honeycomb

won't be answerin' to this post, heh

[Ikonoklast]

169. Lots of noobs and sleepers suddenly waking up.

All gun humpers.

All Zimmerman supporters.

[rhett o rick]

188. Why are you bringing this up now? Are you trying to gloat? Not a good time. nm

[reusrename]

91. I have been in a few fights, but only once where I knew the guy was trying to kill me.

I told everybody I saw for the next few days, especially the cops:

"That guy was trying to kill me!"

"Yeah, but you don't understand, he was REALLY trying to kill me!"

"You just don't get it, he was trying to actually kill me."




I don't see that reaction at all in this case. Not even close. To know that someone is trying to kill you is not a common event. It has a real effect on people. Your injuries or pain are completely secondary. What you remember very clearly is that moment when you first realize that someone is actually trying to kill you. You just can't stop talking about that moment.

Zimmerman absolutely knows this kid never, ever, was going to cause him any real harm. Or he's such a psycho that he doesn't know. In either event he murdered that Martin boy.

[d_r]

148. yep

I agree with you

[tofuandbeer]

205. I can't even get past the point

that Zimmerman left his car and didn't leave it to the police.
How could the jury completely disregard that?

[RC]

240. That, right there, is the tipping point.

That is what makes it murder. The police were on their way, why get involved any farther?

[pipi_k]

93. Pretty much

what you said.

I honestly don't know if he's innocent or guilty.

I wasn't there.

But from the looks of things, it would appear that 2/3 of DU was there. They know for a fact what happened.

They have inside knowledge of Zimmerman's thoughts and feelings.

Well, if they know so much, why weren't they at the trial, testifying for the prosecution?

Anyway, it sucks that people who don't march in lockstep with the majority are accused of being "apologists" or worse.

[Caretha]

147. I vote for

"worse" & worser....what does that make you?

[OwnedByCats]

183. I hear you

Agree completely. I wondered why everyone here who claims to know exactly what happened weren't on the witness list for the prosecution. All I had ever said was that I wasn't there and was not assuming anything, however anyone who felt the same were treated pretty badly. We never said he was innocent (except in the concept of "innocent until proven guilty&quot , we said let's wait and let the jury make their decision. That was not met with anything friendly in response.

[RC]

241. Yeah, nobody on DU has a clue, as the trial was secret and behind closed and locked doors.

No news accounts were ever published or aired. Yeah, we are all clueless. None of us are smart enough to reconstruct what happened. None of us were there, we are all just guessing.

[BlueStreak]

261. Obviously a large number of people here did not have a clue, and still don't really understand

the concepts of evidence and reasonable doubt.

I think perhaps your comment was meant in sarcasm, but actually what you said was accurate. I guess that is a double-irony.

I don't want to live in a country where a mob rules, and I don't want a country where we wish for juries to nullify laws and ignore evidence just because they have a feeling it must have been some other way.

That means that sometimes the guilty are allowed to walk away. That is the price we have to pay for a system that usually does produce just results.

If a witness had been 5 seconds earlier or 10 feet closer. Zimmerman might be looking at life in prison today. If there had been a surveillance camera in the right place, maybe we would have had a conviction. The evidence just wasn't there to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Zimmerman didn't plan it that way. He just got lucky.

That's the whole story. It isn't about racist jurors. It isn't about incompetent prosecutors. It is about the evidence. The evidence all broke Zimmerman's way. I believe he was guilty of at least manslaughter, but if I were on that jury, I would have had to say "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

[BlueStreak]

9. Considering there are 10,000 posts seeking Zimmerman's head for every post

that asks people to stop frothing at the mouth momentarily and look at how the accepted facts match up with the law, I don't see why you should have much outrage.

[CatWoman]

10. oh

go shoot a squirrel or something

[Hoyt]

24. Hey, squirrels deserve better. BTW, I agree with OP.

[Rex]

14. Because of trollish posts like this one, since you know that is a lie.

You just reinforce that feeling, way to go!

[BlueStreak]

173. I will graciously accept your apology now

Clearly the jurors looked at the facts and the law and determined that there was no basis for finding him guilty under that absurd Florida law. I wish it were different, but that's what happens when the 1% can push through crazy laws.

[bobduca]

245. Let people vent

Let people vent and stfu? Might be the best option today.

[BlueStreak]

255. It is too much to ask that people needing a decompression pick a dozen threads and vent there?

... rather than starting 200 new threads a day, none of which pring any new insights or information to the discussion?

There are actually some other important issues in the world.

[bobduca]

256. Today ...

it might just be too much to ask. no offense meant.

[BlueStreak]

259. You are probably right.

[malaise]

11. +1,000

Rec

[Bjorn Against]

12. I am sure most people on this site agree with you, I certainly do

There are a few vocal Zimmerman supporters on this site, but I believe most people are disgusted by them as you are. It truly sickens me to see people support a child murderer. For them to even suggest that Trayvon Martin deserved to die is beyond the pale, they may want to pretend they are just "looking at all the facts" but it is clearly obvious they care nothing about the facts and simply accept George Zimmerman's story as to why the black kid needed to die.

[arcane1]

13. It almost seems like there is a vigilante fantasy that's being threatened by this trial.

[CatWoman]

15. Father!!!

[JanMichael]

51. Bingo. My particular favorite is the DUer that wrote

that "having a your nose broken induces panic!" or something to that degree--

Ridiculous.

[NaturalHigh]

16. I guess I'm one of those "apologists"...

who doesn't believe the facts of the case are enough to convict Zimmerman.

I'm equally disgusted by the lynch mob that was ready to convict Zimmerman even before the facts came out.

[Bjorn Against]

18. But apparently not so disgusted by Zimmerman who killed a child before the facts came out

Sorry but killing a child before you have all the facts is a far worse offense than judging a man who bragged on national television that he killed a child as part of "God's will".

[LiberalFighter]

33. Only an uncivilized person goes around killing people w/o getting the facts.

Using god as an excuse is despicable.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. That's it for me

Zimmerman acted as cop, prosecutor, grand jury, jury, then judge to sentence Trayvon Martin to death.

He did this not because he had been mugged by Trayvon,or because Trayvon had entered his home with intent to steal or harm . . .

He did it because Trayvon like dozens of other black men Zimmerman called 311 and 911 on for walking while black did just that . . . He walked while black.

For the rest of my days I will know that as the truth and if he is walking the streets and I encounter him proceed with that knowledge.

May god have mercy on his absent soul.

[burnodo]

20. The facts were clear from the outset

Especially after he clearly states "fucking coons" on the 911 call.

You're not wrong to think Zimmerman will likely skate. the way justice runs in country, Zimmerman will never truly pay for murdering a child.

[NaturalHigh]

21. Zimmerman never said that.

Even the prosecutors never made that claim.

[burnodo]

23. Probably because they couldn't prove it

I listened to the tape.

[NaturalHigh]

28. So did I.

[burnodo]

35. You should see a hearing specialist

Or did you hear "punks" like other people claim?

P uhn ks

C ooo ns

Totally different sounds

[NaturalHigh]

49. My hearing was fine during my last physical.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

156. You aren't supposed to remember that.

[Hissyspit]

208. Yes, they are totally different sounds.

It doesn't sound like "coons."

I listened to it about 50 times that first day it was posted. I heard "coons" the first few times when the bad audio file was posted. And then I listened in headphones when the good audio file was posted, and it was clear that people were hearing what was suggested to them.

Here it is repeated over and over and equalized differently:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3251843

If you are hearing "coons," it is because you want to. He says "punks."

I know I won't convince you, of course, but there are plenty of other reasons to despise Zimmerman and wish justice had been done.

[burnodo]

209. you need your hearing checked as well, Hissy

its pretty unequivocal that he says "coons". I guess I don't understand why you think he says punks. It doesnt sound like punks at all.

[Hissyspit]

210. I don't need my hearing checked.

It's fine. Keep hearing what you want to hear. It's called confirmation bias, and it's a moot point, anyway. It would be "great," in an evidence sense, if he was saying the c word, but he's not.

[burnodo]

211. Its not about wanting to hear it

I listened to the audio re-do and eq slide...HE SAYS "COONS" EVERY TIME

[Hissyspit]

213. Nope.

Doesn't matter anyway.

Of course, I remember the nonsense with Mickey Kantor and the Clinton campaign:

Everyone was absolutely sure that was what he was saying, because that's what the subtitles said he was saying:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5778940#5785729

[burnodo]

214. You're wrong

but, you're right, it doesn't matter now

[polly7]

25. He sure as hell did! nt.

[Art_from_Ark]

266. He's either saying "coons" or "goons"

Definitely not "punks", though

&feature=player_embedded

[SleeplessinSoCal]

254. There was so much prosecutors couldn't bring up because they couldn't call Zimmerman to the stand.

But Defense could put words in Trayvon's mouth. This isn't so much justice as abuse of the legal system. And probably far more common than we realize. Zimmerman contracted himself constantly on the record. The Hannity interview alone was full up with contradictions from other testimony. But without Zimmerman on the stand, they had no way to enter it as evidence.

I hope I'm wrong about this, but it's what I've deduced from various accounts.

[davidpdx]

206. The problem with the tape is there was just enough background noise

Either him breathing hard from running and/or a slight wind that it made it hard to make it out definitively which is why the audio expert wasn't allowed to testify. I think had it been more definitive, Zimmerman would be sitting in a cell crying right about now.

[kimbutgar]

226. Do you think he will ever be free to walk around and feel safe again.

His life is going to be a living hell. He might be a hero on fox and in white wing world but a month from now he will be a pariah. He will be looking over his shoulder everywhere he goes paranoid, and stressed. Yes it will be hell on earth.

[burnodo]

234. not nearly what he deserves

and somehow, I dont think he's going to have it all that rough

[Cooley Hurd]

22. Fact: Zimmerman was told NOT to persue Martin

Fact: Zimmerman shot and killed Martin despite being advised to NOT start a confrontation.

[NaturalHigh]

26. FACT: The civilian dispatcher had absolutely no authority...

to order Zimmerman to do anything. As for the confrontation, there is no evidence that Zimmerman started it. It's equally likely that he was attacked by Martin, as he claimed.

[uponit7771]

32. neither would a fireman but if going against their request cases death that's manslaughter

[customerserviceguy]

152. That's where many of us differ

Was it an order? Was it a request? Or was it a suggestion or advice? Each one has different responsibilities on the part of the person listening to it and disregarding it.

I don't need you to answer this.

[Cooley Hurd]

34. No one called it an order - he was advised.

[DonCoquixote]

40. a dispatcher can order him

to stay out of the way of the ciops that were being called to the scene. Furthermore, if your point about Zim stays, that means he is responsible for confronting Martin.

[blm]

46. FACT: Children are TAUGHT to fight when an adult stranger gets close enough to grab them

and you can't deny that. Unless you don't know any better because in your town you teach the kids to give in to the adult stranger who follows them and gets close enough to grab them because if the child fights, then, in your town, the adult stranger has every right to shoot that young person and call it self-defense.

What did you teach YOUR child?

If you can't answer that then don't bother with another end around BS reply.

[arcane1]

62. A minor correction: they are told to fight and scream for help.

Trayvon did exactly what he was supposed to do. He didn't know who Zimmerman was, he had no idea the police were on their way. All he knew was that he was being chased by an unfamiliar adult.

[blm]

75. Right - so until Zimmy apologists tell us what they teach their children in their town they

really aren't saying anything actually relevant to the real world of young people who are NOT old enough to own and carry a gun.

[arcane1]

109. I don't recommend losing sleep waiting for that.

"Zimmy apologists" are defending their guns almost as hard as Martin defended himself.

[sarge43]

89. Nor did Zimmerman have any authority to pursue Martin

Don't say Neighborhood Watch. He did not follow NW guidelines. The first rule of NW is observe and report; do not engage. Zimmerman observed and reported. He knew the cops were on the way. He had no reason to disregard the dispatcher, but he wanted to play at cop.

That's why dispatchers tell civilians to butt out. Because they probably don't what they're doing and turn a serious but routine situation into a cockup or, worse, a tragedy.

[arcane1]

116. Yep, and Martin had no idea the cops were on the way.

Zimmerman admitted to following him, and complained that "they" always get away. He was obviously trying to detain Martin until the police arrived. He had the courage of his gun and police backup, and kept that info to himself.

All Martin knew, on the other hand, was that someone was pursuing him for some unknown reason.

Zimmerman's claims about "I was looking for a house number so the police can find me" bullshit was cover for what really happened: he caught up with Martin and tried to prevent him from leaving before the cops showed up.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

96. However, you do admit that Zimmerman followed Trayvon. And if that's so, your bullshit

conjecture that Trayvon turned around and followed Zimmerman is just that: BULLSHIT!!

You're even consistent in your bullshit.

[malokvale77]

135. What authority did Zimmerman have?

A gun!

[NaturalHigh]

139. He wasn't breaking any laws...

by following Martin or carrying a gun. What authority did he NEED?

[Caretha]

157. Earth to NaturalHigh

put down the pipe....it is still illegal to shoot people....just like it is FUCKIN' ILLEGAL TO HANG someone because YOU THINK something is UP or WRONG.....


In other words...it AIN'T YOUR FUCKING JOB AND IT'S WRONG, IMMORAL, ILLEGAL AND ....GET THE FUCK OUT IT'S HORRIBLE.....GET IT?

[malokvale77]

166. Thank You

That response just floored me. I'm getting too old.

[tomp]

220. apparently, it's not illegal in florida. nt

[malokvale77]

160. What law was Trayvon breaking, by walking home with Skittles and Tea?

What authority did he NEED?

[ieoeja]

177. You 100% correct. Obviously the only authority he needed was ... "the gun".

An innocent 17 year old is dead.

You win.







How do you feel?

[NaturalHigh]

179. BS...I didn't "win" anything.

Nobody wins.

[WCLinolVir]

190. Well I make the observation that there must be door prize for the last word,

'cause you sure wanna win it.

[RetroLounge]

268. Nobody wins?

You're trying awful fucking hard to "win"

You understand, being an asshole murderer's apologist is NOT something to aim for, right?

RL

[pitbullgirl1965]

228. So would you mind if I followed you with a gun

would you be cool with that? You're defending a murdering f**k. If Zimmerman was a black man & Martin was white, we wouldn't be having this conversation, the trial would have come about much quicker (remember it was only public outcry that reopened this tragedy) and Zimmerman (god I hate that name now) would be found GUILTY.

It's sickening you defend a 200 lbs armed man against a 14 year old skinny CHILD. I hope you don't have children. I hate to see your racist white privilege ways taught to them. And how would you want a Zimmerman type stalking them? It's his right amiright?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

243. Yup, no authority just like Wannabe Zimmerman

The pistol packin' Judge Jury and Executioner.

[uponit7771]

27. ..and told by nwp too, that's almost open and shut manslaughter imho

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. You would have more credibility if you would answer the question that has been posed to you

many times in these threads:

Did Trayvon have a right to defend himself?

Several people have asked you this question. And all you do is continue to repeat ad nauseum that Zimmerman was getting "beaten to death" even though the evidence doesn't show that.

If you can't honestly answer that question, then there's nothing else to discuss.

[Hugabear]

57. I'd love to hear the answer to that

Unfortunately I think he'll never answer it

[NaturalHigh]

59. Of course Martin had a right to defend himself...

IF he was attacked. He had gotten away from Zimmerman at one point. Why did he come back if not to force a confrontation?

[The Magistrate]

82. You Have Zero Evidence That is A Fact, Sir

Zimmerman says it happened; Zimmerman lies. He has been caught out in lies by the dozen. The jury is specifically instructed it is to weigh the reliability of any witness, and decide whether to believe a witness or not. There is no reason whatever to credit anything Zimmerman says.

"Every word is false, even 'and' and 'the'."

[NaturalHigh]

83. If the jury acquits, sir, will you say that they had no facts?

I'm willing to accept that the jury has seen and heard a lot more than me.

[The Magistrate]

88. There Is No Independent Witness To What You Stated As A Fact, Sir

Only Zimmerman's unsupported word, and Zimmerman is a liar. Those statements, by the way, that no witness corroborates Zimmerman's tale of how Mr. Martin attacked him, and that Zimmerman is a liar, are established facts.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

90. Now I know you're full of shit!

There is absolutely NO evidence that Trayvon turned around and followed Zimmerman.

This IS evidence that Zimmerman pursued Trayvon.

You claim that IF Trayvon was attacked, he had a right to defend himself. But since you don't know either way, why do you fight to give ONLY Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt? You're taking the bullshit defense stories as fact even when there are inconsistencies throughout these testimonies.

Does Trayvon deserve any benefit of the doubt? At all? He's the one who is dead!!

[The Magistrate]

99. Indeed, Sir: He Did Let the Mask Slip There....

"If you're going to lie to me, tell me lies I would not have to be an idiot to believe."

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

104. I think he's just baiting us, to be perfectly honest.

[NaturalHigh]

100. Legally, the person on trial gets the benefit of the doubt.

Zimmerman told the dispatcher that he didn't know where Martin had gone. It would stand to reason that Martin came back to confront Zimmerman, since Zimmerman was still in roughly the same place. It's not like Zimmerman was out chasing Zimmerman on foot. Looking around for him, sure. Chasing him down, though, no.

[The Magistrate]

107. Not In Regard To Veracity, Sir

What you say bears no relation to the legal presumption of innocence.

[Just Saying]

41. The "lynch mob" Fox News talking point is nothing more than offensive bullshit.

People that think Zimmerman is guilty have never advocated killing him. You are wrong.

On the other hand, an argument can be made that Zimmerman played judge, jury and executioner on an unarmed 17 year old kid and lynched Trayvon Martin.

More twisting of the facts and use of racially charged terms to try to prove a point that is simply false. I expect that from Fox and Limbaugh but not here on DU. You're proving the OP's point quite well.

What people who think Zimmerman is guilty want is JUSTICE.

[Egalitarian Thug]

42. No guessing at all. You are, and your opinion is disgusting. n/t

[NaturalHigh]

73. My opinion that guilt should have to be proven...

before anyone is sent off to prison? Yeah, that's just disgusting.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

102. And the one person who could prove it is DEAD!!!

[NaturalHigh]

103. That's the way that murder trials work.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

105. But you only give the murderer the benefit of the doubt, not the murdered kid. It's disgusting!

Truly you are a disgusting person. Welcome to ignore. Enjoy replying to yourself.

[freedom fighter jh]

150. It's the defendant that needs the benefit of the doubt, because it's his fate that is being decided.

If murder can't be proved it can't be proved. If murder can't be proved then what happened may not have been murder.

I haven't followed the case closely and I don't have an opinion on whether or not murder has been proved. But to say the defendant should not get the benefit of the doubt because the only person who could prove murder is dead opens up the very real possibility of convicting Zimmerman of a crime he did not commit.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

151. If you haven't followed the case closely, how can you be so sure. The dead boy doesn't

deserve even the slightest benefit of the doubt?

A crime he didn't commit? A kid is dead!!!

[freedom fighter jh]

161. I'm saying only that Zimmerman deserves the same standard of proof as any other criminal defendant.

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That doesn't include speculation about what Trayvon would have said if he had been there to say it.

That's the way the system works. It protects people from being convicted of crimes they did not commit.

Do you think the prosecution met that standard? If so, then why do you say the only person who can prove it is dead? And if you don't think they met the standard, then why do you believe it was murder?

[WCLinolVir]

191. Don't confuse justice with the legal system.

[Crunchy Frog]

106. But not before someone

gets shot point blank in the heart.

[Egalitarian Thug]

145. Never mind, you're not worth the effort.

[Ruby the Liberal]

50. When is it OK to kill a child?

Thanks in advance.

[customerserviceguy]

154. What if the child is trying to kill you?

And he's bigger and stronger?

[Ruby the Liberal]

174. If I outweigh someone by 185:158

and have taken MMA classes weekly for a year, and have a 27:17 age difference on them, cry me a fucking river.

Good luck on your guy walking though.

[customerserviceguy]

242. You asked a general question

not about a specific case. And I've called this thing the way it went down for quite some time.

[spin]

70. Some here do not understand the concept of "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." (n/t)

[NaturalHigh]

132. Yeah, I wouldn't want them on the jury if I were on trial.

[WCLinolVir]

193. I would not you on one either. You comfortably ignore the obvious.

[Skittles]

130. your use of the term "lynch mob" is very telling

[Just Saying]

17. I have no problem with people who want to discuss the details of the case

Or don't think the prosecution proved guilt. But all the defenders say they're just stating the facts and want a fair trial which is both insulting, because that's what we want too and disingenuous, because they all seem to have agenda.

People either don't want to admit their own racial bias and/or that they are gun nuts who don't want anyone telling them when they can shoot someone.

[Cooley Hurd]

19. Recommended. Certain facts cannot be disputed...

The BIGGEST, MOST glaring fact is that Zimmerman went against the cops advice and stalked/confronted Trayvon. IF he followed the simple advice of the dispatcher, this wouldn't have happened.

[ZRT2209]

29. if Trayvon had punched Zimmerman's bloody nose there would have been blood on Trayvon's hands

there wasn't.

not a drop. not even a molecule of Zimmerman's DNA.

[polly7]

36. But .....

it was raining! That's the explanation I got, anyway. Magically, however, the rain only washed the blood off Trayvon ... George's head was somehow immune to the rain and showed where it had bled (copiously slightly barely enough to notice the boo-boos).

[MFM008]

56. no no

there would still be traces of blood, blood will show even though you cant see it.

[polly7]

66. I know, just being a smart-ass.

There were no traces of blood or DNA from Zimmerman on Trayvon, from what I understand. I find it impossible to believe that anyone in the death match Zimmerman claims, who had enough of a grip on Zimmerman's bald head to smash it twenty five times on concrete wouldn't have a speck of his skin under his fingernails.

[Bjorn Against]

63. Especially considering his hands were found underneath his body

Somehow the rain must have found a way to pour through Trayvon's body to wash his hands underneath.

[Cooley Hurd]

61. A most salient point.

[Vattel]

258. That's just ridiculous.

Why on earth do you think breaking someone's nose involves getting blood on your hands?

[Adsos Letter]

44. Thank you.

Thank you for correctly characterizing it as advice, rather than a directive. And, from the transcript of Serino's interrogation of Zimmerman, it's apparent that both Serino and Zimmerman recognized that the dispatcher wanted Z to stop following TM, even if it wasn't given as a command:

Serino: OK, at the point where he said, are you following him, and he said, we don’t need you to do that, what went through your mind?

Zimmerman: He’s right.

Serino: So you shoulda stopped and went back to your vehicle.

https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1079

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

71. You rock!! Thank you!!!

[sakabatou]

31. I hate the ones in real life, outside of the internet

So many racist slurs and gun nuts.

[CitizenLeft]

38. there's a young man at work who is an apologist,

...I discovered the other day when he asked my opinion about the trial. I told him I'll tell you after YOU tell me what you think (I'm notoriously passionate about politics and usually avoid discussions at work with anyone I might get into a heated debate with). He hit every wingnut / gun nut meme out there, finishing with this justification: there are pictures of Trayvon Martin posing with a gun.

I was astounded, and have yet to be able look at him without real disappointment. I have to chock it up to his age (22) and just refuse to discuss anything outside of work with him or I'm gonna let him have it.

So I'm with ya.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

101. It's interesting, isn't it? All the gun nuts want EVERYONE armed...everyone except...

Black people!!

Note that it was o.k. for Zimmerman to carry a gun even though it was against HOA rules.

Note that the Zimmerman cheerleaders never condemn Zimmerman for having a gun.

On the other hand, Trayvon takes a picture of a gun and posts it and that must surely mean that he deserved to be murdered in cold blood. (Note: HE DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING GUN!!)

[CitizenLeft]

117. I know - my jaw dropped

A 17 yr old poses holding a gun, a gun he neither owns nor carried the night of his death, and that makes it okay to shoot him dead.

I don't want to think the things I'm thinking about this young man at work, I'm trying really hard, because I'm fond of him. But wow.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

144. I think he just posted a pic of that gun. He wasn't holding it if I recall.

[CitizenLeft]

153. I've not only never seen a photo like that, didn't know it existed...

...until this young co-worker mentioned it. I assumed it had something to do with the photos on his cellphone that the defense was trying to get into evidence.

So you mean it's just a photo of a gun, and not even Trayvon posing with one?

Unbelievable. Just goes to show you how far Zimmerman defenders twist themselves into a pretzel to "prove" that Trayvon Martin deserved to die.

Makes me sick to my stomach.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

162. I'm pretty sure it was just a picture of a gun that Trayvon either tweeted or posted on FB...

It is a pic of someone holding a gun, but hasn't been established if it's Trayvon's or who it belongs to:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/23/justice/florida-zimmerman-defense

[totodeinhere]

235. I don't think it's his age. There are wingnuts in all age groups including senior citizens.

In fact I would say that that young man is an exception. Younger people are more likely to reject a wingnut point of view.

[CitizenLeft]

244. I know, that's why it so surprised me

Not only that, but he's closest to 3 other African-American women in the dept. We've all always pampered him because he's such a smart cute funny kid - he was an intern for years before hired. So his opinion that Trayvon was disposable shocked me. Racism - or stupidity - or social insularity - comes in all guises. Who knew he'd be susceptible to such ideology? Especially since his mother teaches at a middle school with predominantly black students.

[Johonny]

39. I enjoy that fact people translate having an opinion into you're part of a lynch mob

It's the same * you heard in the Casey Anthony Trial. People have some weird * vision that because you looked at the facts and think someone is guilty that this translates into you wanting to seek out revenge and murder the person if the jury disagrees with you. Why people have these paranoid lynching, murdering fantasies I have no idea.

If you don't want to read peoples' opinions, why do they go to websites designed for people to post them. Having an opinion is not the same thing as lynching anyone. Indeed the DU is generally anti-death penalty

[Nevernose]

67. Agreed.

I want Zimmerman in an orange jumpsuit and in prison where he can ruminate on what he did for a couple of decades and so he can't hurt anyone else in the meantime. He deserves better than what Trayvon got.

The reason I want him there is because I've watched, heard, and read all of the evidence, and believe that it was George Zimmerman's grossly irresponsible actions that directly led to a kid's death. Even if George had been telling the truth, this would still be an almost textbook definition of manslaughter.

[malokvale77]

142. Yes, a thousand times yes.

[TommyCelt]

227. Agreed x1000

Zimmerman was guilty of manslaughter.

And he walks, anyway. Horrible shame.

[Raine]

43. I totally agree, that thinking makes absolutely sick and repulsed. nt

[Chico Man]

45. Reasoned debate != Zimmerman apologist

Apparently the jurors are Zimmerman apologists too? Heck, they have had 8 hours to hang this guy! Just what technicalities could be holding up the guilty verdict!?!? Just what are these people discussing? I mean, it's plain as day isn't it?!?!

[Shrek]

48. +1

Thoughtfully concluding that reasonable doubt exists does not make one an apologist for Zimmerman.

[bvar22]

52. Everyone is entitled to the Presumption of Innocence,

deserves a Fair Trial,
and good legal representation
.
.
.
.
.
...but as soon as Zimmerman picked up a gun,
and exited his vehicle in pursuit of Treyvon
AGAINST the orders of The Police,
well, that ALL I need to know.

It doesn't matter Who accosted Whom later,
or who was On Top in the scuffle,
or Who said WHAT and When
AFTER Zimmerman chose to pick up a gun and exit his vehicle in pursuit of Treyvon.

IF the defense is unable to cast any doubt on THOSE undisputed actions chosen by Zimmerman BEFORE the actual physical confrontation,
the Fair Trial has been completed, and Zimmerman if guilty of MURDER.
Case Closed.

[naaman fletcher]

69. The law disagrees with you

It doesn't matter Who accosted Whom later,
or who was On Top in the scuffle,
or Who said WHAT and When
AFTER Zimmerman chose to pick up a gun and exit his vehicle in pursuit of Treyvon.

The law says otherwise.

[bvar22]

175. Then you better pray that I'm not on your jury...

..if you ever pick up a gun,
chase down an unarmed child,
KILL him,
and then try to claim that it wasn't your fault,

.....because if I am on that jury, then you're in for a WORLD of pain.

I am a Gun Owner, and believe in owning guns for Self-Defense.
My Father, a combat Marine Officer, gave me my first bolt action rifle when I was 10,
taught me how to use it and WHEN to use it.
I still have it and shoot it, along with a number of other firearms.

He also taught me the difference between RIGHT and WRONG,
and what Zimmerman did was WRONG,
and those trying to weasel out a defense of his choices are also WRONG,
and beneath my contempt.

If this jury returns anything less than MURDER,
then I will be joining the rioters.

[ctaylors6]

80. What do you think

about the judge declining to include in the jury instructions the initial aggressor exception to self-defense? The state argued that it should be included, the defense argued it shouldn't, and the judge ruled in favor of defense. (The defense argued that neither following someone nor carrying concealed were legally provocation under FL law, which requires force or threat of force.)

Disclaimer: I'm not arguing anything about the facts of the case. I'm just curious about what you thought about the judge's decision on that issue in light of what you posted.

[Cali_Democrat]

53. Word. n/t

[Azathoth]

54. LOL, but the people who know Zimmerman is a "racist" who "chased down" and "executed" Martin

are just honest folk looking objectively at the facts.

[NaturalHigh]

65. Yeah - the double standard is almost laughable.

If you "knew" from the beginning that Zimmerman was a racist POS who should do life in prison, you're one of the good guys. If you think the facts don't add up to a conviction, you're an apologist.

[Azathoth]

79. The irony/hypocrisy level is definitely off the charts

There's nothing quite like seeing people scream that Zimmerman is a murdering racist monster who stalked and executed an innocent baby and anyone who disagrees is clearly an emotion-driven troll.

[NaturalHigh]

84. I've seen the troll thing a lot.

Anyone who doesn't agree is a troll. Typical of those sorts. Pfft in their direction.

[WCLinolVir]

199. BS. He didn't need to be a racist to be asshole, he didn't need to chase him down, but what

do we call following, or stalking someone? Yeah, he killed him. Call it whatever you like, he killed the kid.

[JanMichael]

55. Damn skippy

that "death photo" of that baby made us cry. He was such a baby; how pathetic that adults can't figure out how to deal with teenagers anymore without resorting to guns. A teen in a hoodie....good god, that is NO reason to stalk and shoot them.

I hate this whole damned thing. Hate it. Hate what pansy assed little morons the gun nuts have become.

[galileoreloaded]

60. Crazy thread is crazy!! Nt

[CatWoman]

87. was that your dissertation for your PhD?

[galileoreloaded]

123. My studies never covered this level of crazy. Just run of the mill

Aspergers/meth/psychosis/fetal alcahol syndrome stuff. Physical manifestation stuff.

This one is wayyyy more entertaining that that though!!

[kalisto2010]

64. Agreed

When you're dealing with a case that has a racial element, people tend to suspend logic and base their conclusions on emotion. In all of my years of watching court cases on TV, i've never ever seen so many so called experts and panelists siding with a defendant in a murder trial. They usually give the state every benefit of the doubt, and blame the defendant for not removing himself from the situation when he or she had the option to do so. This is completely mortifying, what puzzles me is so many White male panelists are siding with Zimmerman, in a million years these dudes wouldn't support Zimmerman if he were Black and the victim was White. And it's also puzzling how they take the unsubstantiated claims from Zimmerman as fact. People are such hypocrites that it's sickening.

[TorchTheWitch]

72. you and me both

Same shit different day with the gun lovers. And when he's convicted we'll hear no end to their screaming travesty of justice.

It scares the shit out of me that there are professed progressives out there that believe they can kill anyone even a child for no legitimate reason. That they believe it is only the one with the gun that has all the rights of self-defense. That they should be allowed to kill anyone that pisses them off or looks hinky to them. That isn't reasonable self-defense to profile a child, follow them in your car, pursue them on foot, start a fight with them and kill them because when THEY defended themselves from YOU you got a couple of little booboos. It's terrifying. It's sickening.

[MotherPetrie]

74. K&R

[crim son]

76. I feel the same way,

though it does appear that a few such people believe themselves to be legal experts and base their argument on that. You know, the "I think he's as guilty as hell but he's going to walk and here's why" crowd. Not knowing Florida law it is difficult for me to assess if they are being disingenuous or not.

[Niceguy1]

81. personally

I support the jury....I dont do trial by internet.

[countingbluecars]

86. Nope.

[Bjorn Against]

92. No, a good person would not justify the murder of an unarmed child.

[flvegan]

97. I knew this thread wouldn't disappoint. n/t

[BlueJazz]

98. My harsh thoughts and opinion is: >

Anybody who believes that Zimmerman is not responsible for that young boys death is simply uncivilized.


(at least, on that thought)

[Chico Man]

108. So why no verdict?

What's taking so long? Are those jurists uncivilized too?

[BainsBane]

111. This isn't long

It's only a day and a half. Even if Z is acquitted, he remains morally responsible for Trayvon's death.

[another_liberal]

114. Trayvon's family will surely bring a civil law suit.

Even if Zimmerman walks, Trayvon's family will surely bring a civil law suit. In that kind of a court action, the burden of proof is much less.

[CTyankee]

215. I hope they win and stick Z for so much $$$ that he will have to grub away for the rest of his life

to pay them. I hope he loses his house, his car and who knows, maybe his wife when she gets sick of living a veritable hellish existence.

[another_liberal]

221. Yes.

Even then he would still be, you know, alive.

[totodeinhere]

236. If Zimmy loses a civil suit there will be plenty of wingnuts and gun nuts

ready to contribute big bucks to help him defray the cost of the judgement. It's unfortunate but probably true. Plus in spite of any civil suit Zimmy will continue to walk free and that is a travesty. I think a better bet to get him would be a criminal action brought by the federal Justice Department accusing him of violating Trayvon's civil rights. A conviction in that case would at least get him some serious jail time although not as much as a murder conviction would have.

[BlueJazz]

118. I believe they're just trying to decide which punishment to handout.

[Chico Man]

127. Oh..

According to most people here it is pretty clear that Zimmerman is a ruthless racist gun humping gungeoneer that deserves to be drawn and quartered, the obvious punishment has to be at least 2nd degree- he got out of his truck after all!!

[BlueJazz]

136. I don't know the man but I do feel he made some bad choices that he'll have to pay for...

[Caretha]

167. I wouldn't got so far

as what you have speculated. You're quite wordy.....but obviously one more person who should never own nor possess a fire arm, because they obviously just killed a 16 year old boy who was no threat to anyone.

[Caretha]

165. If you had

ever had the experience of sitting on a jury, you wouldn't form such a silly question.

[another_liberal]

112. Racists and gun freaks . . .

Racists and gun freaks are largely immune to logic or reason, let alone compassion for anyone they can exploit to further their causes.

[Chico Man]

131. So what is the jury debating?

I'd wager the debate is a lot closer to the "racists and gun freaks" here than it is to the bandwagon emotionalists..

[another_liberal]

195. "Bandwagon emotionalists?"

What does that mean?

[Bjorn Against]

119. Yes, just because somebody had a lobotomy that does not necessarily make them a bad person

If a person thinks that George Zimmerman was justified however then they are a pretty shitty person.

[Bjorn Against]

158. Not necessarilly, they could be debating between murder 2 and manslaughter

I can respect both sides of the debate between Murder 2 and Manslaughter, but those who try to say that the killing was justified are disgusting people.

[miked62916]

115. Same here, friend!

Zimmerman is scum, and he should be locked up for the rest of his sad, miserable life. End of story.

[TNNurse]

120. He could have just stayed in his truck

driven home and minded his own damn business. Instead, he committed murder. If you are in a vehicle, how are you threatened by someone on foot??? How???

[billh58]

121. Gungeoneers will go to

any disgusting length to apologize for other gun nuts and the right-wing NRA propaganda about the dire need for "self protection" from goblins and hoodie-wearing scary people.

The support for Zimmerman from this DU minority group is very telling, and totally expected.

[mimi85]

122. Agreed.

If this asshat walks, all hell will break loose. Which I absolutely don't condone, but I definitely wouldn't be surprised.

[Caretha]

176. Hell is coming

just heard the news, they found Zimmerman not guilty.

May God have mercy on the jury's souls.

A sad day for America

[jaysunb]

125. Well...this is quite a thread you've posted, Miss Kitty

I guess it will cause some to take a look at themselves and others to dig in a little deeper into their denial of their well camouflaged racism,

FYI, there IS no post racial America. We're still at least 100 years away. Killing black men and boys is as American as apple pie. They just don't often do it the "old fashion" way. (trees & ropes)

[demgrrrll]

128. kick and I agree.

[Skittles]

129. I HEAR YOU CATGAL

yes INDEED

[City Lights]

133. I'm right there with you, CatWoman!

Thanks for saying it!

[ReRe]

134. The only reason I can think that they defend him is...

... that "birds of a feather stick together."

[Nye Bevan]

137. Am I a "Zimmerman apologist"? I think that Zimmerman is a disgusting person,

but I don't think the prosecution proved guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Ikonoklast]

184. No, because you are consistent. You've always leaned Right.

No surprise coming from you.

[Nye Bevan]

185. I'm not sure that this is really a political issue.

And I am strongly in favor of strict gun control.

[MadBadger]

231. Are you fucking kidding me?

Its right wing to believe that if the prosecution doesnt prove beyond all reasonable doubt, the jury should acquit?

That's some fucked up bullshit line of thinking

[David Zephyr]

140. 100% in agreement.

Totally! K&R.

[enki23]

141. Ditto.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3224968

[countingbluecars]

155. Guess it does. nt

[Bjorn Against]

159. Yes, I am glad to see you admit it.

[Quixote1818]

163. For someone to take Zimmerman's side, to them Martin has to be a thug

who was out to cause trouble and just a bad kid in general who went after Zimmerman. They should ask themselves why they automatically think like this with Zero proof to suggest this. Why do they instantly think a black kid is a bad kid? They are seeing Trayvon just as Zimmerman did. In any other circumstance with Martin just trying to get home or even thinking he needs to defend himself and throwing the first punch, Zimmerman is guilty of at the minimum being a fucking dumb ass.

[malokvale77]

168. Not Guilty

It's now open season on Black children.

What a sick world.

[NYC_SKP]

170. Fucking eh, CatWoman. (nt)

[protect our future]

171. Disgusting, and this sick verdict makes me nauseous.

[Kingofalldems]

172. I'd like to know where the eff has MIRT been

for the last couple weeks. DU now reeking with republican disruptors.

[Nye Bevan]

180. I think MIRT has been doing an excellent job, as always (nt)

[budkin]

178. The prosecution got owned

That illiterate girl killed the whole thing

[great white snark]

207. What a fuckingly ignorant thing to say.

You can't even grasp how desperately nervous she was? The weight on her was palpable...at least to folks without dubious agendas.

[budkin]

265. Look I'm not happy but the prosecution was awful

They could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty and that's all that matters.

[malokvale77]

187. That's some funny shit you got going there.

[Pisces]

182. I couldn't agree with you more!! Those people, and the jury make me sick. This shows

That justice does not work for African Americans!! I am so furious!! I don't know the family but I feel sorrow and pain for them.

[NealK]

186. I'm sick to my stomach.

He got away with murder. All the Zimmerman supporters can kiss my ass.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

189. Yes, consciously or unconsciously, they assume that

in any interracial confrontation, the black guy is always the guilty party.

I've seen so much racism in the North that I'm not surprised at this verdict from central Florida. The online comments in the Minneapolis paper (infested with right-wingers and racists) went so far as to say that Zimmerman was justified in suspecting Trayvon because "he was walking along looking at the houses."

I responded that I often stop and look at houses when I'm walking around if I think they have interesting designs or yards, so would the poster shoot me?

No, he said. That's different, although he knew that saying exactly how I am different from Trayvon Martin would get him banned from the paper.

[Demo_Chris]

192. Me as well, I am basically not posting because I am raging too hard. nt

[enigmatic]

194. I knew this verdict was coming in.

I had no hope Zimmerman would be found guilty. I knew he'd get away with it. I'm sick to my stomach about it, but my gut knew that was going to happen. That verdict is a huge reason why I'm never stepping foot in the US ever again.

[blkmusclmachine]

196. +1. "Zimmerman apologists completely and absolutely disgust me.."

Get the HELL out of FL!

[etherealtruth]

197. Zimmerman apologists completely and absolutely disgust me

That says it all.

[totodeinhere]

238. Now lets turn that disgust into action. We need to lobby the Justice Department

to indict Zimmy for a civil rights violation. If convicted of that he could still get some jail time at least.

[SoapBox]

198. This makes me sick.

He stalked and murdered an unarmed American.

[wisteria]

200. A man should not be convicted of 2nd degree murder because he exhibited signs of racism

in jumping to conclusions about a Black boy walking in his neighborhood. This is a tragedy, a young man has lost his life, but do you really think that Zimmerman murdered Trayvon because he was Black? I think it should have been manslaughter, but the prosecution overreached. I know racism is ugly, but it serves no purpose to convict someone of 2nd degree murder to bring attention to what is still wrong in our country.

[HiPointDem]

203. i think he murdered him because he's racist, yeah. he stalked him for no reason, he called him

a 'f*****g c**n,' he disobeyed the dispatcher & *kept* stalking him, and he killed him.

martin had committed no crime, had done nothing but walk to the store & back, & he stalked him & killed him.

why the hell do you think he did that?

[wisteria]

230. You think? You think he murdered him because he was racist?

I agree Trayvon had every right to be where he was. He was a victim of racial profiling. And, Zimmerman wanted to be a hero, but was he stalking him to catch him doing something, or was he stalking him simply to kill him? I have difficulty believing he went after him to murder him. The entire situation was not handled correctly on both sides.

[HiPointDem]

247. "not handled correctly on both sides" = oh, so there's a 'correct' way to handle a fucking stalker?

[TBF]

218. No, he should be convicted of 2nd degree murder (or higher frankly)

because he got out of the damned car with intent to go after this kid. He did that with a weapon.

Why didn't he stay the fuck in the car?

It wasn't manslaughter.

[DallasNE]

225. I Agree

Premedication would have been an easier barrier to hurdle than a depraved mind.

[wisteria]

229. He went after him, but can you really prove it was to kill him?

It could be he went after him to find out what he was up to, or to stop him and question him. Racial profiling and racism are not equal to 2nd degree murder. And, now you want to also suggest that it was planned and 1st degree.

[TBF]

263. That is why he wasn't convicted for sure -

What did he intend when he stepped out of his car with a gun? The jury felt they couldn't know without a reasonable doubt - it could have been just to approach and question him. So, they let him off. They couldn't go with the lesser charge of manslaughter because it wasn't an accident.

Me, personally? I see someone getting out of the car to "question" in the dark with his weapon. Why get out of the car when the dispatcher told you very clearly to stay put? Why take the weapon? Yes, in my mind there is intent to pursue and at least potentially kill. Could have left the gun in the glove box .... but he didn't. Why didn't he?

Planned in terms of "I may need this weapon when I get out of my car (even though I was told by authorities to stay put)". Planning doesn't need to happen 10 days in advance. He thought through whether he wanted/needed to carry a weapon with him as he approached this person.

That is intent in my mind - but obviously the jury thought he was just going for a stroll ...

[Sparky 1]

201. You think it's bad here?

You would lose your supper if you saw what's going on with some of the other boards on the web tonight about this case. You'd see some of the nastiest people you've ever seen online. This place is heaven compared to them, believe me.

[HiPointDem]

202. I wish the mods would just ban them all tonight. I can't stand to read the trolls with their fake

'rationality,' their 'expert' legal knowledge, their fake concern.

just get them the hell out of here.

[barbtries]

204. me too.

disgust is the word.

[RoccoR5955]

216. Zimmerman has a target on his back

He will go down the same way as the kid he shot.
He will be walking down the street, and simply because of who he is, someone will feel threatened for their life, and do him in.
I truly believe that if there is justice in this world, Zimmerman will get his.

[totodeinhere]

239. I do not condone any sort of violence in response to this verdict and the Martin family

has also said that. Lets take our outrage over this verdict and channel it in a legal way. We need to lobby the Justice Department to indict him for a violation of federal civil rights laws. If convicted of that he could still face some serious jail time.

[RoccoR5955]

246. This was not my opinion...

It was merely a statement of fact.
Zimmerman will get a dose of his own medicine, and must be very careful as to where and with whom he travels.
Anyone could be threatened simply by who he is, and his past behavior. Someone could use that to justify shooting him, under the Florida law. Again, not my opinion, just a statement of fact.

[RoccoR5955]

262. I never said that I condone it.

I merely stated a matter of fact.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

253. I think he will move his family to Ecuador.

Or Venezuela.

[Maraya1969]

217. I just put a post up about how I think the guilty verdict happened. Please check it out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023252615#post2

[DLevine]

219. K&R. nt

[CrispyQ]

222. I don't use ignore, but that may change.

I'm sickened by the verdict. There is no way to defend it. No way.

[DallasNE]

223. They Are Just Following The Lead Of Mark O'Mara And Don West

Their comments last night were so over the line they should be sued for slander. They went well beyond disgusting.

I am also waiting to hear the jury explain how they were able to dismiss the 911 call where the scream ended the millisecond the shot was fired. That was the 600 pound gorilla in the room and they didn't even seem to notice it.

[malthaussen]

224. Justice was served, all right.

Cold, and with a side of fries.

-- Mal

[WillyT]

232. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!!

[Blue_Tires]

237. +1

[Skittles]

248. imagine the tune they'd be singing if it was their loved one Zimmerman stalked and murdered

that makes them supreme hypocrites, too

[TBF]

264. Yup - in fact all we have to do is imagine Trayvon is white.

Zimmerman wouldn't have even gotten out of the car. And that is why this is about race despite all their holier-than-thou protests.

[Radicalman]

250. There Is No Place In The U.S.Where A Black Teen Can Be Safe

If a male black teenager lives in a gated community and leaves it for a few minutes, a wannabe cop civilian, not a real police officer,can profile him and kill him. If he lives in a major urban city he may be forced to join a gang or, when he does not, he may be mistaken for a gang member and killed. Where is a Black male teenager supposed to live?

If you were the parents of a Black Teenager what would you do? Maybe move to Brazil?

[hfojvt]

257. ah, the ever-popular message of hate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3256505

I see plenty of mistruths and closed minds and lack of logic and embrace of hate on the Zimmerman attacker side.

But I don't hate them back.

"Along the way of life, someone must have sense enough and morality enough to cut off the chain of hate>" Martin Luther King, "Stride toward Freedom" 1958 p. 104

[fadedrose]

260. Zimmerman isn't the only guilty one...

The prosecutor's office decided what charges to file, and they had to know they didn't have evidence to convict.

If it were racial, it would have gone federal, and a panel independent of the governor and state would have sought evidence that worked.

[smirkymonkey]

267. Hear, hear.

This verdict absolutely sickens me. I want to see Zimmerman pay for this.

[Scurrilous]

269. K & R