General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Believe Zimmerman Knew the Family He "Rescued"
It was suggested that I post this as its own thread for discussion....
I am from Daytona Beach, Florida. It's about a half hour drive from Sanford. I was really stunned earlier today when I learned the maiden name of the woman "rescued" by George Zimmerman. I believe she is the daughter of a formerly high-profile Daytona Beach cop who made a career of organizing citizen policing groups. It's too much of a coincidence to me that she should be the daughter of this particular cop.
How I connect the dots---
FYI--The Daytona Beach area includes the cities of Port Orange and Ormond Beach.
Dana Gerstle appears in many places on the Internet as Dana Muffoletto Gerstle. Zabasearch lists "Dana Michelle Gerstle," age 41, at the same Port Orange address as "Dana Michelle Muffoletto" also age 41. She identifies herself as "Dana Muffoletto Gerstle" on her Pinterest page. It's her and her maiden name is Muffoletto. Various media sources have described her as being from Daytona Beach and having a brother named "Joey." This was determined from the media hunting down her Facebook page and related pages.
Zabasearch lists a Joseph Muffoletto, age 72, in Daytona, and a Joseph Muffoletto, age 47 in Ormond Beach. They are the only Muffolettos in the area. Father and son, I'd say. Dana is very likely the sister.
Joe Muffoletto Sr. was a high-profile cop in Daytona Beach for decades. He was the public relations officer. He'd visit all the area schools and pitch the "Police Explorer" program. He organized a "Concerned Citizens" registry to make reports to the police while keeping a person's name out of the police report. He spoke extensively on citizen policing throughout the area for years as "the face" of the DBPD. This 1978 article from the Daytona paper describes Lt. Muffoletto's views on citizen policing.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1873&dat=19780712&id=C_IpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DNMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3801%2C4567002http://
I find this chilling. Lt Muffoletto asserts that citizens are the "first defense against crime with police reduced to a secondary role" because he thinks the courts had given criminals more rights than law-abiding citizens. He was saying this in 1978!!! This guy would have been George Zimmerman's ultimate HERO.
After retiring from the police force, Muffoletto was the criminal justice coordinator for a Daytona Beach college. He is listed in the yearbook as recently as 2010. I believe that this is how George Zimmerman could have become acquainted with him during Zimmerman's law enforcement studies or anytime really given his obsession with policing. If Muffoletto was continuing to give presentations and speaking in the area, Zimmerman may have attended an event. I think Muffoletto would have been someone Zimmerman would have wanted to talk to and would have been very interested in getting to know. Maybe there could have been a connection through his uncle the judge??
My theory---I think it's possible Zimmerman could have known the Muffoletto family though an initial acquaintance with a cop I think he would have idolized. I believe he and the Gerstles could have been driving somewhere together in separate cars when the accident occurred and that's how Zimmer Man happened to be in exactly the right place at exactly the right time. He took off to avoid drawing attention to himself in consideration of his friends. They seemed willing to reveal their identity and give tons of family photos to the media at first but after the blowback, ehhh, not so much.
Zimmer Man would not look like such a hero if the media found out he "rescued" people he knew. I'd like to know how he couldn't get a 158lb teenager off of him but he could pull a fat guy out of an SUV. There's that. So that's my theory. It just seems too bizarre to me that he would happen to "rescue" the daughter of this cop who had been a lifelong advocate for citizen policing.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Welcome to DU. You offer some interesting info on the players in this little drama.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)I do seem to be obsessing over this but I swear since this afternoon when I heard that woman's name I thought NO WAY!!! Called my mom. She also thought it was too freaky. I do research for a living so I can't resist tracking down details and looking for connections.
I agree with you, the whole damn thing is just toooooo...I don't know, too damn weird on many levels. If he knew them and they were actually driving somewhere together when the Gerstles had an accident, I think it explains a few things.
The only other possible explanation is that he probably carries a police scanner everywhere he goes. The city of Sanford put Zimmerman's 911 call history online. No question that man is seriously paranoid and obsessed with policing everybody and everything, especially Black males including children as young as 7.
Thank you for being the first reply to my first discussion post!
Pelican
(1,156 posts)There is one more...
Think hard Ms. Researcher...
Dagny_K
(39 posts)Possibly a cop sent Zimmer Man a text? A cop who's been a vocal supporter in social media?
If that's what you're suggesting, I think my theory is better! Cop's driving around, hears about an accident, decides to text his buddy Zimmer Man to tell him hey rush over there and see if you can play hero or something, without knowing what's really going on at the scene. I'm not sure I buy that a cop would think there's something Zimmer Man could do. And how did he know his buddy was out driving at that particular moment?
Did I guess it?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)Igel
(35,359 posts)Random chance?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)Yes, the correct answer is that the story could be relatively accurate and the most hated in man in America might have done something laudable....
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Pelican
(1,156 posts)I took issue with the statment that the only other explanation was Zimmerman staring at his scanner.
This case has just unglued the ability for people to think rationally. It's weird...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I can admit I can be wrong, can you?
Pelican
(1,156 posts)I've said from the start that it's possible. It's just extremely unlikely. Like winning the lottery twice and getting hit by a meteor on the same day unlikely...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)person George Zimmerman.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)It's all too weird. It IS the kind of weirdness that would get even people like me thinking something's GOT to be off. I was willing to think it was just an incredible occurrence until I saw that woman's maiden name yesterday. She could be a retired cop's daughter, sure. But THAT particular cop? A cop who spent his career organizing citizens policing groups and recruiting "Police Explorers"? A cop George Zimmerman would see as validating his obsession with law and order? (Have you read his 911 call history?)
Let's say it is completely random. You don't find it just a little weird?
The insults were really unnecessary BTW.
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)it's a hard core Zimmer Head.
You'll get nowhere trying to be rational.
Not unless you slam its head on the concrete, all the while zinging it with James Cagney catch lines.
"You Got Me!!"
wah........
JustAnotherGen
(31,907 posts)If that's the police report - and I believe it is - then he is less of a hero than the "Saved From A Burning Vehicle!!!!!" headlines were making him out to be. It was just an every day accident and his efforts were so nominal that George didn't even make it in the report. And I would think that if it was a burning vehicle - then the Fire Department would be involved - gas is a Hazmat. But they just called a towing company and went along their way.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)Option 1) O'Mara hires a PR group to force the media against their will to gin up a story from an interesting but relatively common experience (reacting to an accident)
or
Option 2) The media, still tingly from the post trial orgasm, knew that they could get millions of people outraged and watching by merely mentioning that George Zimmerman did something positive.
Whether it was on fire or not doesn't have anything to do with it. The reason it's a story is because everyone is overjoyed to go back to their corners from two weeks ago to spew again...
JustAnotherGen
(31,907 posts)George is friends with the cop. Going against his attorneys' advisement to lay low - his friend - the cop - draws him into the accident. O'Mara and West run with the ball and issue a press release in order to craft George in a good light. O'Mara and West as usual - just believed George and ran with his story.
Option 1 - That's just silly. They would have had to manufacture the entire accident.
I do not believe option 2 - AT ALL. Why would anyone be outraged that another human being's life was saved?
The burning car part is huge. Becuase of the headlines. It goes back to the headlines. SOMEONE tipped off the media that this was a big, huge, heroic effort. Going to a burning car and getting four people out if it? *raised eyebrow* So - do you think the media made up the burning car? Since the national media doesn't follow simple little car accidents unless it is brought to their attention.
Ever worked in Advertising and or PR? I have. Just moved to Finance where one of my focuses is on Hazardous Materials Management, Homeland Security liason (spin doctoring), etc. etc. But prior to that - including internships at places such as Eric Mower, and a Buffalo News station, a US Congress Woman in Washington - as well as actually convincing consumers to go out and purchase like - 8 different colors of the Chocolate by LG just 'because' - I have 18 years of hands on experience.. . . I'm telling you - this was a tip off to the media - By someone who knew that Hazmat is a big big deal on the American highways. By someone who thought they could help Georgie to redeem himself. And so maybe - just maybe - they wanted the media to run with the ball.
Police Reports from Sandford/that area of Florida don't lie
And sometimes - it's a simple case of someone not being able to look themselves in the mirror.
Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #71)
Pelican This message was self-deleted by its author.
The cop was a big Zimmy supporter and texted him as soon as the "accident" happened.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Don't need more than that.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)how could he not?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)It is just too convenient, plus there are pictures of everything these days. Just not anything related to this.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)JI7
(89,276 posts)this actually reminded me of some of the bs they claimed happened with the trayvon shooting. how trayvon said something like "you got me" after being shot.
sounds like some fantasy of some loser who wants to be viewed as a hero.
and the now cancelled press conference was organized by Mark O'mara . i guess poor o'mara is having a hard time profiting off the trial despite the name recognition he got.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)I spent the whole trial waiting for somebody to point out that NO TEENAGER TODAY SAYS "HOMIE." It didn't happen. Everything Zimmerman claimed Trayvon said sounded like something made up, like from a movie he'd seen. "You got me"???? Yeah. Happens in the movies.
O'Mara will have to rely on NRA members to keep making donations to Zimmerman's website. Yeah I think he's pretty screwed on the fees. And don't be planning any books, buddy! Cocky McSwagsalot will tweet you into oblivion!
Hey so will people yell at me if I chit chat like this with everybody who posts to my thread???
HeiressofBickworth
(2,682 posts)You will get some who will challenge you, some who will thank you for an interesting perspective, but if my experience is anything to go by, most people will read what you have to say and never post a response. Don't read anything personal into anything. We're all just sitting at computers and there's no way to judge subtle messages.
I'll be one who thanks you for an interesting perspective. I agree it's hard to believe that Zim just happened upon an accident, rolled up his sleeves and moved bodies out of a wreck when he couldn't get a teenager off of himself. But, anything is possible, I suppose.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)Zimmerman's alleged physical limitations have bothered me all along. I'm a 53 year old woman. I work out with weights a little, my cardio is great, but I'm not exceptionally fit or anything. I'm 5'6" and I've got a few extra pounds on me. I went to a boxing gym when I was in my 40s and got in the ring with people much younger than me. I honestly believe if I had a little adrenaline running through me, I could fight a 158lb teenager off me. I'd thrash around like crazy, I'd kick, I'd punch, I'd scratch and bite, I'd be jabbing at his eyes, and I'd be screaming holy hell at the top of my lungs.
If I had a gun, however, perhaps I wouldn't fight so much and I sure wouldn't be screaming though the person I was pointing that gun at would likely be. My theories of the fight are for another thread!!
edgineered
(2,101 posts)like you, like me. For me, those were the dark days of my past several decades ago. There is a mindset to it, and you know what it is; how people act and react can be determined by you. For these reasons, etal, I believe Zimmerman was guilty of 1st degree - he knew exactly what he was doing for the very start. When he put on his gun he was going to triumph in whatever situation he found himself in. I'm sure he felt it was his lucky night when he saw that innocent boy.
Cha
(297,733 posts)zimmer were all in on the fantasy to make Trayvon the aggressor and poor zimmer the victim. Why would a cooked up "zimmer is the hero who rescues a white famly" be so out of the realm of reasoning?
If it's really PR, they really are stupid.
Big event ... and it takes what, 4-5 days for it to get into public view?
Ah, but, I'm sure the response will be, they're really, really clever and devious. "If they went public immediately, it would look like PR."
Of course, the more clever and devious they are, the more brilliant "we" are in finding them out.
DU's always had a bit of a us-versus-them mentality that led to screwball conspiracy theories, but at least they used to be overwhelmingly political. That made sense on a politics-based board.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Many have thought the whole thing was fishy. If you've got phone numbers use a VOIP and call people asking for quotes. Turn up the heat.
The gal in Ohio started to blog about the rape of the HS girl and she ended up uncovering some useful information in her research that helped put the case in the spotlight.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)It's very weird to think I know exactly where those people live. I grew up in Daytona but my parents live in Port Orange now. The Gerstles probably shop at the same Publix as my mom and dad.
I'm going to write to an Orlando Sentinel reporter who covered the trial extensively. Thanks.
Scott Maxwell? He's a friend.
I'm sending my info to Jim Philips of the Philips Phile on Real Radio.
LeftofObama
(4,243 posts)I've thought all along that there was more to this story than we're being told. There is no doubt in my mind that somewhere along the way he was tipped off.
Welcome to DU!
Dagny_K
(39 posts)Sending greetings from Chicago, home of Our President! I LOVE THAT MAN!!!
ancianita
(36,137 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,907 posts)At all - I need to see a picture of the burned out vehicle. To date - I haven't seen one. But I have seen you lay out some interesting connections that make me really want to see the burned out SUV. . Welcome to DU!
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)to flip that car over just to help a friend.
HolyMoley
(240 posts)A middle age couple with two small kids, performs a maneuver that takes a Hollywood film crew days
to choreograph, along with an experienced stunt driver wearing a helmet and strapped in with a racing harness. Never mind the location being secured from the public, and safety/EMS/fire crews on hand.
Works for me.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)And what's weird is why Zimmerman just happened to be there, that's what needs explanation. Hence, my theory. I'd expect that any friends of Zimmerman's are being careful of being seen with him and where they go.
Zimmerman knew the family and they were all driving somewhere when Mark Gerstle lost control of his vehicle. Very possible.
HolyMoley
(240 posts)he's staying at the Gerstle residence, or a close associates.
Right now, he's probably the most sought after person in America.
Either by the media, or people looking to do him harm.
A hotel or motel is out of the question, so is renting (unless someone else signed the lease).
It's doubtful he has any money to cover even simple living expenses.
He needed a safe house.
What better place than with someone who believes in him, and someone who has connections to law enforcement. Someone who has the ability and experience to know how to watch his back and offer a modest level of protection.
I'm not saying this is the case (or, that I think it is), just offering one more scenario if you want to take the ball and run with it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Almost as nice as attempting to illegally transferring money from his jail cell using a poor code that would make a third grader embarrassed.
Almost as nice, but not quite...
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)We know that it was much easier to attempt the money transfer than it was to get a family to flip a car for a stunt.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)about the money transfers and the passports don't involve someone putting their lives at risk for a publicity stunt.
Flashmann
(2,140 posts)My very first and immediate thought,when this story broke was that A) It was staged and choreographed or B) Zim &Co took advantage of an actual occurrence by twisting and torturing,if not creating,both fact and sequence of events.Either scenario being the result of a clumsy and transparent attempt to rehab the murderers image.
The problem I see with that strategy is that most people who will buy that the killer is a qualified hero are knuckle dragging simpletons,all too happy being told what to think and believe,and probably already support Zimmerman.
What you posted fits neatly with my first impressions....
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Deep13
(39,154 posts)In his own eyes he was never guilty of murder, so I don't think it necessary that he be a complete monster in every way to have murdered TM.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)He unbuckled a seatbelt.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)And maybe I missed it in the OP
What about the wrecked car (even though we've yet to it)
And are the police reports falsified?
Dagny_K
(39 posts)The accident happened, the police were called, no need to falsify or fake anything. The only detail that seems weird is how George Zimmerman happened to be right there, right then. It's not a random coincidence if he knew the family and they were all driving somewhere in their separate cars and he helped his friends instead of driving by strangers.
Of course I've stated my suspicion is based on the fact that I think it's too, way way too weird to think the woman he rescued is the daughter of a lifelong advocate for citizens policing. I really, really think Zimmerman knows her.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)"It's not a random coincidence if he knew the family and they were all driving somewhere in their separate cars and he helped his friends instead of driving by strangers. "
I hadn't considerd they might be traveling together, but in separate cars.
It might be the missing link.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Why would George Z just leave the Gerstles there as soon as the police arrive, if he really were a friend traveling with them?
I have traveled with others and, when their car broke down, I didn't leave them in the lurch. I piled them all into my car, and, one time when I didn't have enough room in my car for everyone in the broken down vehicle, I even made two trips to get all my companions to our destination.
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)he helped his friends, police and fire arrived. he got the f out of there.
seems plausible
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)which others have speculated is why his name doesn't appear on the accident report.
MinM
(2,650 posts)Rupert Murdoch's NYPost is trying to get out in front on this...
Dagny_K
(39 posts)If I were friends with an infamous person, I'd want to show support for him but if something happened that involved me directly in what he was dealing with, I'd be seriously re-thinking it, especially if I had kids whose photos were suddenly all over the Internet.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)That supposedly mentions Zimmerman. Has anyone seen it?
I've seen this:
http://newsball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/07-17-13-vehicle-crash-on-I-4-and-SR-461.pdf
Which makes the accident sound minor, doesn't mention children at all or Zimmerman or a fire.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)Zimmerman is not mentioned in the police report. He was not a witness to the accident apparently left when LEO arrived.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)There is also a human need for the answer to a mystery to fall into a box that is the answer we are looking for. When it does not happen that way, people look for reasons why and come up with all kinds of details to make the story/solution/mystery fit inside that box.
The real answer is that much of the time the simplest answer is the correct one.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)When I found out the name of the woman he "rescued" it was just too weird. In Zimmerman's mind, she'd be the daughter of a cop he'd idolize. If Zimmerman ever heard Muffoletto give a presentation, I'm certain he'd want to speak to him and get to know him.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)live in Sanford and drive the streets in the area? The odds of something happening randomly in this situation are not out of the question. I remember when I was a kid we drove to Alaska. In the Yukon Territory we ran into a guy my dad knew from the next town over. That seems extraordinary, except of course there was only a single highway that went to Alaska at the time, the Alcan Highway. Another time my parents (from Minnesota) were in the Frankfurt, Germany rail station and they ran into a guy from our small rural Minnesota town. Sometimes coincidences are just coincidences.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)The Gerstles live in Port Orange. I-4 is an easy hop everybody uses to get around between Daytona Beach (including Port Orange), Deland, and Sanford. Port Orange to Sanford would be about a half hour drive.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Why do you think that is?
AsahinaKimi
(20,776 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)where's the bleach!!!
LOL - Look at his gun
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)and welcome to DU
Dagny_K
(39 posts)A purr and a meow from the hometown of Our President!
calimary
(81,514 posts)Glad you're here! I saw your original post and I'm glad you turned it into a separate thread! Great digging you did here! Sorry the professional news media and so-called "investigative reporters" couldn't be bothered to do such things.
Seems to me your conclusions are reasonable considering the evidence. But then again, I myself thought a second-degree murder verdict was reasonable considering the evidence, too. Sure looked that way to me, from everything I saw and read and listened to and studied. This just smells really bad. Really fishy. It just doesn't add up. Any more than Zimbo's mood-ring story did, with how many times he kept changing it.
Dagny_K
(39 posts)The changes in his story were so obvious! I could write a bunch of threads on my theories there! I'm sure somebody in Daytona has got to have noticed that woman's name by now. Joe Muffoletto was simply too high profile for too long. And his name ain't Jones!
I'm writing to reporters at the Orlando Sentinel and the NBC affiliate, WESH.
Looks like a really hard-workin' band of talented guys! Good luck to them!!!
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)Nothing surprises me much anymore. And yes, this not only stinks but might be considered some sort of conspiracy that began some time ago.
Who knows. JUST SUCKS!!!
Nine
(1,741 posts)It could be why they waited so long to release. They wanted SOME of the details public but not the whole story. Wait a few days and it's harder for the media to go back and dig deeper. Might also be why they were going to do a press conference and then cancelled. I think O'Mara might have pulled the plug on that once he learned more details.
Howey
(11 posts)I'm from the area too, and agree with you 100%. Hope you saw my posts from the past two days.
EV_Ares
(6,587 posts)Strange as well because they sure as hell would except for another strange reason.
Spazito
(50,484 posts)The right wing media was breathlessly reporting this when the story broke but, since then, nothing, nada. It's like it never happened. The right wing media doesn't drop stories like this unless it is toxic to them.
I hadn't thought about the lack of coverage almost immediately until you pointed it out.
I need to share something with you....guys on DU?
How many posts do I need to be able to send a PM???