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Test for eighth graders in Kentucky dated 1912 ignites debate over kids' intelligence today (Original Post) snagglepuss Jul 2013 OP
Before the swarm of "Woe! Our hideous decline!" posters show up... Posteritatis Jul 2013 #1
+1...As an 18 year old, I agree, and I'm not just trying to justify my generation! PennsylvaniaMatt Jul 2013 #3
It's easier to hack the material when surrounded by it as well Posteritatis Jul 2013 #6
On the word list, HoneychildMooseMoss Jul 2013 #2
There were a few other errors also... PennsylvaniaMatt Jul 2013 #4
In one of O'Henry's stories written around that time, HoneychildMooseMoss Jul 2013 #8
The joys of manual typesetting! Posteritatis Jul 2013 #7
"endeavor" on the spelling list is misspelled n/t LadyHawkAZ Jul 2013 #5
Crap, the history was hard. I could not answer many of them. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #9
I wonder if it was given before or after publication. Igel Jul 2013 #10
I wonder what the harvest schedules were like back then? Posteritatis Jul 2013 #13
What percentage of children even made it as far as ... surrealAmerican Jul 2013 #11
Kentucky had a compulsory attendance law from 1896 Posteritatis Jul 2013 #12
While much of it is rote memorization, a surprising amount isn't. X_Digger Jul 2013 #14
The work assigned was really more demanding back then starroute Jul 2013 #15

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
1. Before the swarm of "Woe! Our hideous decline!" posters show up...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:05 PM
Jul 2013

... I'm not really seeing much in terms of intelligence indicators on tests like that. It's a quiz of facts, which were most likely 'learned' by rote memorization, rather than understanding, aside from a few exceptions (like the "why" question - I always delight in seeing those in tests because dammit there are too few of them).

That won't stop people from, well, Daily Mailing all over the place about how doomed our doom is, of course, but if education was as simple as just-so articles like that implied we wouldn't be having problems with the system in the first place.

The Smithsonian gave their own take on the test today.

PennsylvaniaMatt

(966 posts)
3. +1...As an 18 year old, I agree, and I'm not just trying to justify my generation!
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:21 PM
Jul 2013

I think you're right in your assessment that this was most likely a memorization test in which the teacher gave a study guide with all of the answers on it, and not a test in general knowledge. A lot of education today is like that too, but that is not necessarily a bad thing, especially for a student that may have zero interest in a particular topic.

Look at Barack Obama. He is a two-term President of the United States that graduated from Columbia and Harvard, yet even he admitted he sometimes has difficulties when helping his daughters with their math homework!

Many people blame technology, more specifically video games and social networking, for the downfall of society among my generation, but I disagree. As someone who is greatly interested in law and politics, I have found the internet to be access to such a wealth of information, especially for me being that I live in a rural area. Thanks to the C-SPAN on-line video library, I have been able to watch countless speeches and political events over the course of history that I otherwise would have no access to.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
6. It's easier to hack the material when surrounded by it as well
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:39 PM
Jul 2013

I'd probably stumble with a lot of my high school or college classes' exams, at least with some of the specifics (with the exception of history which is where my career lies), even when I'd do fine with the material back when I was studying it. That hangs around to the present too; I spent a few years as a cost estimator for a construction company and was very good at it, but if I ran into that again ten years down the road I'd probably flounder for awhile until I got my bearings again.

It's the same with tests like that - a reasonably competent person could probably spend an evening studying - far, far less time than these kids would have spent - and then handle the test well enough. They might need more than an evening to 'truly' pass it, e.g., getting the right answers as the teachers in 1900 would have defined them, rather than our own. People obviously aren't going to do that, though, not for something they came across while browsing the news, so all most of us will see is "I don't immediately know that and that and that and that and that means I'm less intelligent than these kids who were immersed in it for months on end! Oh emm gee Idiocracy!"

My beef with education these days is something that I would have had with it back then as well - the focus on knowing facts, as you mention and I started by mentioning, instead of interpretation or synthesis or the like. I've been on the fun side of the desk in history classrooms a few times, and the students almost always started by assuming all there was to the subject was memorizing names, places and dates and bringing them back on recall. Those are prominent in modern exams, just as they were in this one. If you look at the 1900 test's history section, there's only one question that isn't necessarily a regurgitation one - #6 - and even that probably had a predefined Correct Answer.

There's a couple of pretty good questions in each of the sections (aside from the arithmetic section where they're all fine), but overall I find the test more interesting in terms of the sorts of things they found important, and the sorts of answers they were looking for. I don't deny for a second that contemporary education could use a swift sharp boot to the head at times as well, but the exams I took in junior high in the early nineties weren't that much different from these ones except for the information they were looking for. Some of mine might have been quite a bit stronger, as the English and social studies courses had substantial essay components, while the Bullitt one seems to be looking for a few words to a sentence or two for most of the questions.

So yeah. The "I've babbled on at embarrassing length" summary is that I find this really interesting as a look into education back then, but I don't really find it alarming.

2. On the word list,
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:21 PM
Jul 2013

"endeavor" is spelled wrong ("eneeavor&quot . And the answer to all 4 parts of Question 1 of the history test would be "American Indians", although it probably would have been counted wrong.

PennsylvaniaMatt

(966 posts)
4. There were a few other errors also...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:31 PM
Jul 2013

"assasinated" in Question 9 on the History part is spelt wrong.

"Presdent" in Question 5 of the Civil Government part is also incorrect.

"secrate" in Question 1 of the Physiology section should be "secrete."

On a completely unrelated note, did anyone notice question number 5 in the Arithmetic section? "A man sold a watch for $180"....Wow! Someone in rural Kentucky was loaded! Adjusted for inflation, that would be over $4,000 today!

8. In one of O'Henry's stories written around that time,
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:42 PM
Jul 2013

there were two women who were working 6-hour days in New York. One earned $7.50 a week and I think the other one earned $10.00. In 1912 in rural Kentucky, $180 would surely have been a small fortune.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
7. The joys of manual typesetting!
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:40 PM
Jul 2013

Also I'd love to be a fly on the wall if a student back then was cocky enough to give what you rightfully consider the correct answer to that one question. I wonder if any tried?

Igel

(35,892 posts)
10. I wonder if it was given before or after publication.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:55 PM
Jul 2013

November? Odd time of year for a test like that. Perhaps admission test. Perhaps end-of-semester test.

Eh. What you're expected to know changes. Once worked out of a chemistry book that went long and hard, at the beginning, on some basic quantitative analysis. Standard introductory stuff for the early 1920s. Thought it might help me come fall at a university, had nothing better to do between my senior and freshman years.

Now that kind of stuff isn't standard introductory stuff. Some of it shows up later and takes a few pages. Some of the stuff is detail that you'd never learn. But you get stuff in elementary chemistry that Nobel prize winners were working on at the time. And then there's information on liquid crystals--we're talking content that wasn't even research-program material when I was an undergrad.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
13. I wonder what the harvest schedules were like back then?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:17 PM
Jul 2013

Agriculture was a much bigger deal at the time, so I could see them shunting the school schedules around to accommodate farmers' needs. If a lot of stuff was being brought in in early November, then you'd want to test your students before that, or perhaps there was some other seasonal events.

Or they might have just had a shorter school year for fiscal or other reasons.

surrealAmerican

(11,455 posts)
11. What percentage of children even made it as far as ...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:59 PM
Jul 2013

... eighth grade in Kentucky in 1912? The less affluent would have been working either on farms or in mines and factories. The literacy rate is much higher today. The children who were taking that test were a small minority.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
12. Kentucky had a compulsory attendance law from 1896
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:14 PM
Jul 2013

Most states that implemented those enforced them through sixth to eighth grade or thereabouts, after which the attendance rate drops off dramatically to somewhere around one in five nationwide in the time period the test came from.

Now, I'm absolutely certain that despite it being compulsory the attendance rate up to eighth grade - let's assume that's the cutoff for purposes of discussion - was going to be less than 100%. But by then the law was in place for a solid generation so it was probably rather closer to "all" than "none" or "half." I'd buy half immediately and wouldn't need too big a nudge to accept three quarters. Beyond that I'd need to see some figures to be sure, but I do believe that a test like that would have been seen by a majority of the students in the age range it was aimed at.

That said, as I mention above in the thread, I don't think the test is that alarming in and of itself - aside from the arithemetic section it's almost entirely rote memorization, which isn't much different from plenty of modern exams (though we want them to memorize a different set of facts now).

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
14. While much of it is rote memorization, a surprising amount isn't.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:21 PM
Jul 2013

A couple questions in the math section are algebra and the pythagorean theorem.

And you know what? I'd be happy if more people remembered the facts from civics, or grammar.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
15. The work assigned was really more demanding back then
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:38 PM
Jul 2013

My grandmother left school after 8th grade so she could get a job and help support her family. That would have been about 1904. And during the final grades, they'd been reading Dickens novels and other classic poetry and prose works.

At one point when my son was in high school, I compared three world history texts -- one by James Breasted published in the 1920s, one published in 1940, and the book being used currently. With each step, there was less text and a lot more pictures. And the text itself became more shallow, less analytical, and with simpler vocabulary and syntax.

The kids' IQs may not have gone down -- but kids today certainly aren't being pushed to use their minds.

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