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Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:07 PM Jul 2013

Bradley Manning is a hero and a freedom fighter.

Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:42 AM - Edit history (1)

I support any and all non-violent resistance to the abomination that is the global security state that emerged from the rubble of the World Trade Center disaster. Bradley Manning will likely spend decades in jail for the crime of exposing war crimes and revealing a small part of what the global security state is up to and how it conducts its affairs. The war crimes he exposed will never be prosecuted. The top war criminals will live lives of luxury. That is a tragedy that can only be remedied by more Bradley Mannings, by more Juilan Assanges, by more Edward Snowdens. Exposing the operations of the global security state is the one hope we have of defeating it.

I salute Bradley Mannng for having the courage of his convictions.

73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bradley Manning is a hero and a freedom fighter. (Original Post) Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 OP
... William769 Jul 2013 #1
Yes, yes he is quinnox Jul 2013 #2
K&R forestpath Jul 2013 #3
whoa! I can see the red lights blinking on NSA stations from here! delrem Jul 2013 #4
lol quinnox Jul 2013 #5
Agreed. wilsonbooks Jul 2013 #6
Is 'Eric' Snowden related to the felonous criminal 'Edward' Snowden? n/t Tx4obama Jul 2013 #7
Goalposts advanced! Now Snowden has been convicted of a Felony! bobduca Jul 2013 #10
Bottom line is that Snowden has openly and publicly admitted that he committed crimes. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #13
The fact I don't like is how many "loyal democrats" bobduca Jul 2013 #14
And being charged with a crime zeemike Jul 2013 #17
Lots of people openly admitted they committed crimes. progressoid Jul 2013 #50
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #15
The OP said that they... totodeinhere Jul 2013 #28
Well put! nt avebury Jul 2013 #55
Thanks for proofreading my op. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #40
K&R midnight Jul 2013 #8
K and R bigwillq Jul 2013 #9
Did you support him punching his commanding officer? randome Jul 2013 #11
id rather question someones emotional stabilty grahampuba Jul 2013 #16
War sucks in every way imaginable. No disputing that. randome Jul 2013 #19
but, grahampuba Jul 2013 #18
If you can watch that video and feel nothing you have a problem zeemike Jul 2013 #20
Do you really think I'm proud of what America did to Iraq? randome Jul 2013 #21
Well you defend it and minimized it. zeemike Jul 2013 #24
That's exactly the point. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #26
Ever been in combat? tumtum Jul 2013 #47
Yes, Korengal Valley 2011. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #51
Glad you made it home brother. tumtum Jul 2013 #53
Glad you made it home too! NuclearDem Jul 2013 #57
Only those of us who've been there, done that, experienced it, tumtum Jul 2013 #59
That apache was in no danger! delrem Jul 2013 #71
That's not the point I was making. tumtum Aug 2013 #73
'Chuckling' is not a war crime. randome Jul 2013 #27
Yeah, "detachment" is probably a good word for it, from a military perspective... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #30
No it is a symptom of a sickness of the soul, the root of war crimes. zeemike Jul 2013 #31
You may have a point. I don't know how soldiers coped in past wars. randome Jul 2013 #34
a policy that deliberately targets civilians is. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #46
Joking, laughing, chuckling, giggling is common among combat troops. tumtum Jul 2013 #49
laughing about surviving a cluster fuck is one thing Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #61
Unless you've been there, and I don't know if you have or haven't, tumtum Jul 2013 #63
Sitting in a helicopter chuckling over killing unarmed civilians. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #65
How many combat missions had that crew already flown during their deployment? tumtum Jul 2013 #67
Judging from your ardent, unwavering quasi-nazi like support of the Military Industrial Complex Zorra Jul 2013 #44
Yes. You choose to side with the authoritarians that are killing in our name. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #69
I pointed out the truth. Nothing more than that. randome Jul 2013 #72
And what the fuck do any of those anecdotes have to do with what he revealed? NuclearDem Jul 2013 #22
Someone who dumps hundreds of thousands of classified documents to Wikileaks... randome Jul 2013 #23
Well, that stuff he stole... NuclearDem Jul 2013 #25
The abuses by contractors were already known and some were prosecuted. randome Jul 2013 #33
Those soldiers were given a pass... MrMickeysMom Jul 2013 #36
Then why did Manning release hundreds of thousands of classified documents? randome Jul 2013 #39
And once again you side with the authoritarian NSA and against whistle-blowers. rhett o rick Jul 2013 #68
And a convicted felon. nt hack89 Jul 2013 #12
Convicted by a kangaroo court. The real felons are the ones who submitted Manning totodeinhere Jul 2013 #29
He plead guilty to numerous charges before the trial started hack89 Jul 2013 #41
you think solitary confinement for 9 MONTHS is not torture? Maven Jul 2013 #60
Bradley is a very dangerous individual, all 120 lbs of him. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #62
Indeed. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #54
Sure - start with the people that pleaded guilty to felony charges. hack89 Jul 2013 #66
+Infinity! You have nailed it! - nt HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #32
K&R. limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #35
I second your..... JimboBillyBubbaBob Jul 2013 #37
Agreed, thanks Warren. Scuba Jul 2013 #38
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #42
K&R Enthusiast Jul 2013 #43
Agreed. We need more like him. nt DLevine Jul 2013 #45
Appearing on buildings in DC Catherina Jul 2013 #48
!!!! bvar22 Jul 2013 #52
I like this one too Catherina Jul 2013 #58
Absolutely! Safetykitten Jul 2013 #56
Without question, and it is in this way he will go down in history Laughing Mirror Jul 2013 #64
He is definitley a hero for any generation Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #70
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
2. Yes, yes he is
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:11 PM
Jul 2013

These men all deserve awards and accolades from a grateful nation, instead of persecution and smear jobs by U.S. government propaganda outlets.

bobduca

(1,763 posts)
10. Goalposts advanced! Now Snowden has been convicted of a Felony!
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:02 PM
Jul 2013

Do they teach that neat trick in NSA-booster camp?

Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
13. Bottom line is that Snowden has openly and publicly admitted that he committed crimes.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:09 PM
Jul 2013

And he has been charged with committing several felonies.

You might not like those facts - but they are facts.

progressoid

(49,991 posts)
50. Lots of people openly admitted they committed crimes.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:29 PM
Jul 2013

That argument doesn't mean anything.

Gandhi, Rosa Parks, Karen Silkwood, Daniel Ellsburg etc. etc. all admitted they committed crimes. But that admission of guilt of a crime doesn't mean that person has done something wrong. Sometimes it's done to show that the system is wrong.


Response to Tx4obama (Reply #7)

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
28. The OP said that they...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:21 PM
Jul 2013

"support any and all non-violent resistance to the abomination that is the global security state that emerged from the rubble of the World Trade Center disaster." That is what we are dealing with here. History is replete with brave souls who committed civil disobedience, technically crimes, who in so doing advanced the cause of human rights and liberty. Snowden has been convicted of nothing but if he is ever submitted to a kangaroo court as Bradley Manning was that won't change the fact that he is a courageous patriot who sacrificed much for a good cause.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
11. Did you support him punching his commanding officer?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:04 PM
Jul 2013

Did you not wonder about his emotional stability when he was found in a fetal position on the floor after having carved 'I want' into a chair?

What Manning 'revealed', regarding the Apache helicopter attack, was soldiers asking for, and receiving, permission to fire in a war zone. Even Assange said it looked like one of the men killed was carrying an RPG. Is this what you want to count as a 'war crime'?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

grahampuba

(169 posts)
16. id rather question someones emotional stabilty
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:42 PM
Jul 2013

than ones moral footing.

lets just call firing on medical assistance a war crime and leave it at that.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
19. War sucks in every way imaginable. No disputing that.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:46 PM
Jul 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
20. If you can watch that video and feel nothing you have a problem
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:50 PM
Jul 2013

IMO...
That kind of emotional reaction is usual in sociopaths.
But I guess we live in a time when the sociopaths rule.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. Do you really think I'm proud of what America did to Iraq?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:55 PM
Jul 2013

That suggestion is utter nonsense.

And has absolutely nothing to do with the hundreds of thousands of classified documents Manning dumped.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
24. Well you defend it and minimized it.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:07 PM
Jul 2013

By saying hey it was just a war zone...and they were just asking permission to fire...and you hear the gunner say "come on , let us fire", like that would make his day...and then chuckle when the APC run over the bodies lying on the ground...
Fuck that shit...it is sick and should not be defended or minimized

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
26. That's exactly the point.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:15 PM
Jul 2013

If it wasn't bad enough the Apache fired on journalists and then on the people that stopped to help, the helicopter's crew was giggling like a fucking pair of 12 year olds playing Call of Duty.

 

tumtum

(438 posts)
47. Ever been in combat?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:00 PM
Jul 2013

Joking, laughing, giggling is a way of relieving the incredible stress of combat.
I flew gunships, had a chopper shot out from under me, so before you start condemning the crew of that Apache, put yourself in their shoes and understand what was going on in their minds.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
51. Yes, Korengal Valley 2011.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:38 PM
Jul 2013

If people aren't exposed to what combat and war does to the people sent off to fight it, they'll keep sending people off to it.

That's why the video is important. It shows what war actually entails, not what the "freedom isn't free" brigade wants people to think.

 

tumtum

(438 posts)
53. Glad you made it home brother.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:44 PM
Jul 2013

War sucks big time, and I agree that this video is important to show those that have never been in that situation what the incredible stress combat does to a person.
That's why I won't criticize, nor condemn the crew of this Apache for their giggling, I can criticize them for the actions they took though, along with their superior officers that gave them permission to engage the civilians.

Again, from one combat vet to another, welcome home.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
57. Glad you made it home too!
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:47 PM
Jul 2013

I wasn't necessarily trying to demonize the crew, just the circumstances that make normally good people do horrible things.

Glad someone else understands.

 

tumtum

(438 posts)
59. Only those of us who've been there, done that, experienced it,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:59 PM
Jul 2013

can truly understand what happens to the human mind and body under those conditions.
I believe that Pvt. Manning and J. Assange released this video, not to demonize the Apache crew, as some here have done, but show how war can, as you said, turn good people into something that not even their families would recognize.

I believe Manning did this country a service by releasing this video so people can see what we experienced and I hope this young man doesn't spend the best part of his years locked up in a cage.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
27. 'Chuckling' is not a war crime.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:18 PM
Jul 2013

I have never been in a war situation but I think I've learned enough over the years to understand how some cope with the horror of warfare. I'm sure there is a better word for it but all I can think of is 'detachment'.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

usGovOwesUs3Trillion

(2,022 posts)
30. Yeah, "detachment" is probably a good word for it, from a military perspective...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:29 PM
Jul 2013

detachment from their torsos.

You know what I think of when i see defenders of these horrible crimes now...
http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/is-this-the-most-embarrassing-interview-fox-news-has-ever-do

I bet I'm not the only one either.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
31. No it is a symptom of a sickness of the soul, the root of war crimes.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:29 PM
Jul 2013

When done when you have just killed a bunch of people.
But it is so common now people think it is normal...it is not unless you are a sadist or sociopath.

In the good old days people did not think killing in war was funny or fun...and people that did were watched closely by the authorities for good reason...but that has all changed now.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
34. You may have a point. I don't know how soldiers coped in past wars.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:35 PM
Jul 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

tumtum

(438 posts)
49. Joking, laughing, chuckling, giggling is common among combat troops.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:12 PM
Jul 2013

When my chopper was shot down, I managed to do a "hard landing", myself, my co-pilot, and my gunner, when we realized that we weren't injured, broke out in laughter and jokes because we had just survived being shot down and walked away.
Nothing unusual in a war zone.

 

tumtum

(438 posts)
63. Unless you've been there, and I don't know if you have or haven't,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:34 PM
Jul 2013

the stress of combat does horrible things to the mind and body causing one to do what they normally wouldn't do, not everyone, but a significant portion.

After doing strafing runs on enemy positions, as we were leaving the combat zone, my crew would laugh and joke to relieve the stress that we had just gone through, it's a natural human reaction in that environment.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
65. Sitting in a helicopter chuckling over killing unarmed civilians.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:35 PM
Jul 2013

Yeah the stress just gets to you.

Whatever.

 

tumtum

(438 posts)
67. How many combat missions had that crew already flown during their deployment?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:55 PM
Jul 2013

Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

How many deployments do they have? 3? 4? 5?
How many times were they shot at?
Like I said, unless you've been there, you have no idea how combat fucks you up, both physically and mentally.

Because I can relate to them as far as the incredible toll combat takes out of someone, I won't fault them for their comments, what I will criticize is the actions they took and their superiors clearing them to engage civilians.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
44. Judging from your ardent, unwavering quasi-nazi like support of the Military Industrial Complex
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:01 AM
Jul 2013

and their destructive, devious anti-democratic endeavors over a period of years, it appears that you would write off Iraq as just necessary collateral damage, simply the price of doing business as usual, a necessary evil done in the name of the progress of global authoritarian fascism.

Judging from your past posts, it appears that your, and your cohorts, primary propaganda objective in this case is to concentrate on the documents, and make them seem paramount, while dismissing the real time torture, destruction, murder and other heinous crimes against humanity committed by the Military Industrial Complex that were exposed by Bradley.

I dearly wish I could say what I really wish to say here. I am hoping that, some day, the admins will say it for me.

Congratulations! Ms. Hathaway, er, randome, you are the first poster I have ever consider putting on ignore, and the first that I have put on ignore.

Have a nice day.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
72. I pointed out the truth. Nothing more than that.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:06 PM
Jul 2013

Even Assange said it looked like they were carrying an RPG. That has nothing to do with the immorality of the Iraq War. It's a fact that most people, including Assange, said they had weapons.

They knew the risk they were taking by being in a dangerous area after military curfew. Now do you want to spring into action and accuse me of supporting the military and a curfew over a country we had no moral justification to enforce?

If so, you would still be ignoring the fact that the soldiers were in a war zone and did the job they were there to do.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
22. And what the fuck do any of those anecdotes have to do with what he revealed?
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:55 PM
Jul 2013

Let me help you out: not a damn thing.

That's called "poisoning the well."

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
23. Someone who dumps hundreds of thousands of classified documents to Wikileaks...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:59 PM
Jul 2013

...is not thinking clearly about what he was doing.

The Apache helicopter pilots requested, and received, permission to fire on individuals they though were insurgents.

Even Assange said it looked like one of the them was carrying an RPG.

What America did to Iraq was abominable and I'm not even sure that's a strong enough word. But those soldiers do not appear to be 'war criminals' to me. And Manning did not even bother to determine that, he simply dumped everything he could steal to Wikileaks.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
25. Well, that stuff he stole...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:13 PM
Jul 2013

Told us about deliberate coverups and misrepresentation of Iraqi and Afghan casualties, DoD contractors abusing children in Afghanistan, the US looking the other way when the Iraqi Security Forces tortures its prisoners, the State Department actively working to screw Haitian workers out of a minimum wage increase, the US training Egyptian torturers, and deliberate efforts to cover up the drone strikes in Yemen.

So, let's see: innocent people being killed, children being raped, torture, government backing corporate interests and screwing the poor, more torture, and more innocent people being killed and deliberately covered up. You know, stuff progressives should be angry about.

In other words, he embarrassed TPTB, and he had to pay for it.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
33. The abuses by contractors were already known and some were prosecuted.
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:31 PM
Jul 2013

I have no sympathy for the government covering up anything, much less war statistics, but that wasn't Manning's motive, he was just lashing out by stealing hundreds of thousands of documents and passing them to Wikileaks.

I doubt he himself cared much about what he was reporting since it was humanly impossible to actually review all the documents he stole.

His emotional instability required that he lash out in some manner and now he's about to pay the price for that.

I still hope he gets some leniency for his sentence since his commanding officers were negligent in letting him have access to this material in the first place given his demonstrated instability.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
36. Those soldiers were given a pass...
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:41 PM
Jul 2013

... and so was the command structure. No one arrested there, just Manning for telling about it.

I hate bullshit remarks like when someone says one of the civilians was being perceived as carrying an RPG. Two of those civilians who were targeted and gunned down were MEDIA holding the equipment of a cameraman. First responders to the scene who were also targeted and gunned down were responding to the first murder. Then, two innocent children were wounded as they saw their relatives murdered on that same insanity.

This was done in OUR name, and you're selling bullshit about "Even Assange said it looked like..."

If you have a point to make that is fact based, then make it, otherwise please STFU about the fact that we have to see someone who was brave act. He was brave to have first followed a due process to his superiors about war crimes ... only to be ignored. And when he did whistle blow to the media about it (or we'd NEVER understand yet other crimes committed in our name) then HE himself is "renditioned", in fact, mentally and physically tortured in my book. He then serves 3 years in a military prison without a trial only to GET a trial with this bullshit outcome.

And the Obama administration, just like the Bush administration thinks I should turn on American Gladiators and just go back to bed?

Well, FUCK THAT, Mr. President.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
39. Then why did Manning release hundreds of thousands of classified documents?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:25 AM
Jul 2013
http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/3598/wikileaks-defense-everyone-iraq-has-ak-47

Julian Assange, a WikiLeaks editor, acknowledged to Fox News in an interview Tuesday evening that “it’s likely some of the individuals seen in the video were carrying weapons.” Assange said his suspicions about the weapons were so strong that a draft version of the video they produced made specific reference to the AK-47s and RPGs. Ultimately, Assange said, WikiLeaks became “unsure” about the weapons. He claimed the RPG could have been a camera tripod, so editors decided not to point it out. “Based upon visual evidence I suspect there probably were AKs and an RPG, but I’m not sure that means anything,” Assange said. Nearly every Iraqi household has a rifle or an AK. Those guys could have just been protecting their area.”


I don't know all the details about contractor abuses but that's rarely mentioned by Manning or his supporters. My suspicion is that he did not know about it -it was 'collateral damage' in the documents he stole- but feel free to provide a link that shows otherwise.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
68. And once again you side with the authoritarian NSA and against whistle-blowers.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:11 PM
Jul 2013

Democrats would generally side with the whistle-blowers. If you watched the video and still have that attitude, I feel bad for you.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
29. Convicted by a kangaroo court. The real felons are the ones who submitted Manning
Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:28 PM
Jul 2013

to being "locked up naked in a cage and driven half mad while deprived of all basic rights."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-scheer/the-shameful-exploitation_b_2298428.html

hack89

(39,171 posts)
41. He plead guilty to numerous charges before the trial started
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:54 AM
Jul 2013

and was acquited of.the most serious change.

He was in solitary for nine months - he has been in a regular prison for over two years. His treatment was not right but it was not a crime. It certainly was not torture.

Maven

(10,533 posts)
60. you think solitary confinement for 9 MONTHS is not torture?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:19 PM
Jul 2013

for a non-violent offender?

do the words "cruel and unusual" mean anything to you?

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
54. Indeed.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:46 PM
Jul 2013

The Supreme Court ruled against the injunctions, but Ellsberg faced twelve felony charges for a possible sentence of 115 years before his case was dismissed on grounds of criminal governmental misconduct against him by the White House.

Aaron Swartz - committed suicide while facing conviction on 13 felony counts for an act of civil disobedience.

Tim DeChristopher - two year sentence for felony conviction for disrupting oil lease auctions.

On September 9, 1980, Berrigan, his brother Philip, and six others (the "Plowshares Eight&quot began the Plowshares Movement. They illegally trespassed onto the General Electric Nuclear Missile facility in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, where they damaged nuclear warhead nose cones and poured blood onto documents and files. They were arrested and charged with over ten different felony and misdemeanor counts.[10] On April 10, 1990, after ten years of appeals, Berrigan's group was re-sentenced and paroled for up to 23 and 1/2 months in consideration of time already served in prison. Their legal battle was re-created in Emile de Antonio's 1982 film In The King of Prussia, which starred Martin Sheen and featured appearances by the Plowshares Eight as themselves.

Shall I continue?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
66. Sure - start with the people that pleaded guilty to felony charges.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:43 PM
Jul 2013

that list would be more relevant to Manning.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
58. I like this one too
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:50 PM
Jul 2013

Anonymous ?@OpManning 33m

#ActForBrad: A picture from last night's rally to support Bradley #Manning in DC at The #WhiteHouse via @TheHallOrg

and this one too, inside the Pentagon Metro Station

Laughing Mirror

(4,185 posts)
64. Without question, and it is in this way he will go down in history
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:17 PM
Jul 2013

He had the courage to expose human rights violations and war crimes. I don't know about you, but I like people who do things like that.

Harmony Blue

(3,978 posts)
70. He is definitley a hero for any generation
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:56 PM
Jul 2013

and the generations yet to be..simply understated how much of a hero he is.

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