Does it bother you even one little whit as a Democrat ??

[kentuck]

That protesters in Wisconsin are arrested for singing. That they are no longer permitted to speak out freely against Governor Scott Walker? In effect, they have lost their First Amendment rights.

Does it bother you just a little bit to learn that our government was spying on all of us and we did not know the extent and that they were doing it without a warrant? Does it matter if we lose the Fourth Amendment and the First Amendment? After all, we still have several left.

Does it sound fair and just to you that the people who spill these government secrets can get over 100 years in prison? Do you truly think these people are traitors?

Does it bother you that the government was lying to us? Of course, they were doing it in the "least untruthful way" possible.

Does it bother you just a wee little bit that we are using drones to kill people in other countries, some of them innocent? Do you really think we are killing all our enemies or do you think we are only making more enemies?

Do you care about our Constitution? Or do you think it is no longer relevant? It is just a "piece of paper"?

What is your honest opinion about the possibility of losing our Civil Rights, including the right to vote? Does any of that shit bother you at all?

[msongs]

1. it bothers me a lot especially has dems leadership is moving ever farther right of center each day

now we have the new "grand bargain" aka the new capitulation to the repubs so bon er can say he got 98% of what he wanted...again

[dflprincess]

2. It not only bothers me as a Democrat

it bothers me even more as an American.

[world wide wally]

131. It bothered me more as it was happening, but the autopsy on America said it was due to a

combination of "corporatitis" with complications from Bush infection.
We should have had a nice funeral years ago.

[Fumesucker]

3. It would... Except..

If I let those things bother me then Republicans win.

[JDPriestly]

70. I'm hoping we can educate Americans to understand their own interests and choices so that

we aren't left with the paltry choice between two Republicans as we have been in recent elections.

Since McGovern ran in 1972, we have been presented in each presidential election with two Republican candidates. The first version was the Republican candidate that was like an Eisenhower. That is the legacy of Obama. He poses as a Democrat. But when unions were demonstrating in Wisconsin, he did not bother to go there, to march with them, to support them, not until it was "safe," not until he could be sure that he wouldn't lose any political support from the rich conservatives, the bankers, if he went there. The other Republican choice was the John Birch Society gang, the Tea-Baggers today's extreme Republican right wing.

I have had great hopes for Obama. I thought he could step forward, get into a liberal stride, in his second term. I worked hard to get him elected and re-elected.

But Obama is extremely weak on economic issues. I really don't think he knows what he is doing with regard to the economy. He talked superficially about the disparity between rich and poor, but he has done so little to end homelessness. I hope he vetoes any bill that cuts food stamps. I watch the moms, the poor in my neighborhood pay with food stamp cards in my local grocery. I'm so thankful that they have that alternative in these tough, economic times.

Obama has no clue as to how families have suffered in this recession -- no clue at all. People are all smiles when they meet the president.

Obama is, to my mind, not so bad on foreign policy although he relies too much on advice from the military. In fact he had the opportunity to achieve true greatness for our country and his presidency by emphasizing his unique ability to negotiate with other countries. Sadly, he is too frightened to take strong stances and to follow his conscience and his instincts. He has too many very conservative advisers including the Clintons, but not limited to them.

I wish better for my country than Republicans posing as Democrats.

When it comes to the NSA scandal, it is a terrible shadow on Obama as a man, as a president and as a Democrat. He should have informed himself more fully about what the NSA was doing in terms of limiting freedom and privacy on the internet. And he should have stopped the excesses. That is what a man of courage, a moral man, a man of conscience would have done. That is what a Martin Luther King would have done.

[Scuba]

77. Thanks JD, perfectly stated.

[Enthusiast]

81. Beautifully said, JDPriestly!

I'm with you.

[MannyGoldstein]

85. Well said JD, thanks. nt

[homegirl]

110. Thank you

AS a life long Democrat I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post.

We need Elizabeth Warren/Alan Grayson as the Democratic candidates in 2016.

[LittleGirl]

132. good post

I've seen myself type that "Obama is the best Republican we could have elected". Thanks for reconfirming what I wrote in 2011.

[BobbyBoring]

141. As always

You hit it right on the head. The reason I voted for Obama in 08 is I thought he would put an end to the abuses of the Bush administration. Instead, he has continued them and doubled down on some.

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. Obama is doing what he's told to do. I don't think he has a choice. It's their way or the grassy knoll way. Years ago, we had a man of courage who even wrote a book called "Profiles in Courage". Look what happened to him~

[JDPriestly]

155. So true. Thanks.

[rhett o rick]

113. As long as we make this a Democrat vs. Republican fight, we will lose.

This is an elite 1% vs. the lower classes fight. The elite 1% own lots of Democrats.

And another thing, I voted for a Democratic President and got a Republican Administration.

[Doctor_J]

128. Wait, what?

the best way to fight repukes is to say nothing about these things - not let them bother us?

[Fumesucker]

129. There have been a number of OPs based on that theory, some serious, some less so

Evidently Democrats find simultaneous perambulation and mastication impossible.

[randome]

4. The Constitution was written by slaveholders. Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson among them.

The drone usage does bother me as does Scott Walker's ineptitude at portraying a governor.

Your "our government was spying on all of us" is unsupported by any documents S&G stole. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but we don't have evidence they are doing so.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[kentuck]

5. So you don't give a shit?

IF the government was spying? Could it be that we don't have evidence because it is secret and is kept even from our elected representatives?

[randome]

7. As I have posted many times on this forum...

...I have absolutely no problem with pressing for more transparency and less secrecy. But no, it does not overly bother me any more than the equally unsupported notion that the FBI is looking through my garbage every night.

I need to see evidence before I get outraged. S&G have provided nothing that points to illegality or abuse.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[kentuck]

9. Then they came for randome...

...and there was no one there to speak up for randome.

[randome]

10. I'm sure many are coming after me.

But until I see the whites of their eyes, I'm not going to bother building a survivalist bunker.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[JDPriestly]

156. Do you read history books?

[truth2power]

111. Appalling, isn't it, kentuck? Psychologically, I don't understand why some people

are invested in minimizing any problem that presents itself. Maybe it has something to do with fear.

[Maedhros]

125. It's a simple formulation:

IF (it makes Obama look bad) THEN (it is a right wing smear) AND (it is not valid)

[sabrina 1]

19. Which puts you very much in the minority as the anger of the American grows the more they learn

about Government spying. The latest poll is up again this week, now at 56%. Way up from the beginning of this month when it was around 34%, BEFORE the people learned what has been going on.

Knowledge is power, and thankfully people no longer have to rely on the Corporate Media to get information.

And this is why the Government is so angry at Whistle Blowers. They KNOW that when people know what is going on, they will, as Ron Wyden stated, 'be very angry'.

[Progressive dog]

138. Four day ago poll, Democrats are at 57% for NSA

data collection. Republicans are at 44%.

Nationwide, there is more support for the government’s data-collection program among Democrats (57% approve) than among Republicans (44%),

and 50% of Americans still approve.
The 56% is for people who feel the courts provide insufficient oversight.

[sabrina 1]

139. It doesn't matter, that will change when Congress returns determined now, as many members

have stated, to end these abuses. The polls will go up and down until Congress acts, which this week became clear is going to happen. As members have stated, the 'movement to end these abuses is unstoppable'.

A couple of new bills are being prepared now to end the NSA's abuse of power and unConstitutional activities.

The last lost by a very narrow margin. Democrats in Congress were responding to their consituencies when they went against the Leadership of their Party and voted 'yes' resisting what one of them stated was 'incredible pressure' not to.

I am hopeful for the first time in a decade, that we are beginning to see Congress finally do the job they should have done years ago.

Better late than never.

The tide is turning, and it's about time. Thanks for these developments go to Snowden and all the Whistle Blowers who risked everything on our behalf, including Bradley Manning, and one day they will be rewarded for their Patriotism as they should be.

[Progressive dog]

142. It doesn't matter, the movement to end these abuses

has peaked. It has peaked because one of the first functions of government is to provide security. Rand Paul uses military spending as an excuse to cut aid to NJ. Even the Libertarian hero wants to spend more on security.
The only changes that can possibly happen are ones agreed to by the President.

[sabrina 1]

153. Wrong, this is just beginning. It is a rare showing of determination by members of Congress from

both parties, who admit that the pressure on them has been intense, to resist their party's leadership AND the pressure from elsewhere to try to stop them.

As one member said this week, surprisingly 'this is unstoppable'.That was a warning to anyone who tries to stop them.

Al Franken, never great on this issue, has now joined the effort to end these abuses. He is working on ending them now and has issued a statement to express his concerns. It's finally happened, our elected officials are finally seeing what we saw when it all began, what a threat it all is to this democracy, and it is scaring them. They are a little late, but better late than never.

The tide is beginning to turn, and as another member said 'there is no going back from this'.

We are constantly distracted by these partisan 'fights' created, I now believe, to keep the people divided. I used to allow myself to be diverted by the latest 'Oooh, Palin said this, or Rush said that', but not anymore. And that too has changed. Notice how little interest anyone has anymore in those old games we all played?

Because every once in a while throughout history, long time political enemies have joined forces when something comes along that is such a threat to all of us, they are willing to set aside their differences and work together to stop it.

I believe we are seeing such a moment now. Many of them mentioned Snowden's leaks as the motivation for their new determination to finally do their jobs.

[kentuck]

154. Sabrina, I think you are somewhat prescient on this...

...or maybe it is just my hope?

[Progressive dog]

157. There will be very little change in the spying,

and Rand Paul will go back to his usual anarchist spiel. The handful of Congresspeople who are running around as if the world is ending will calm down and act like grownups.
Governments exist not because we like to be spied on but because they are necessary. The most important reason they exist is to protect us from each other, to protect our rights from each other.
These programs are an attempt to balance data collection against rights. They are not going to end, the parts that only target foreigners will probably grow. Calm will be restored and any changes to the data collection will be minor. The data you voluntarily gave to corporations or to social media are much more likely to be used to harm you than the pen records that were stored by the NSA.

[sabrina 1]

159. ou need to catch up with today's news.

'Surveillance issues now top priority for WH'.

Yesterday's revelations proved that Snowden had been telling the truth about analysts' ability to find out anything they wanted to about anyone, WITHOUT A WARRANT blowing away the claim that they could not see or hear the content.

So wrong again, something will now have to be done about this.

[Progressive dog]

160. The WH made this a priority some time ago,

but the Snowden is a hero people didn't listen. This is really old news as is the revelation (from Snowden's first Hong Kong claims) that a criminal could actually access some data illegally. The everything stuff is just another repeat from an ethically challenged blowhard.

[sabrina 1]

161. Lol, okay, far be it from me to destroy anyone's dreams.

Congress was opposed by the WH but the latest revelations will make it all but impossible for the WH or anyoe else, to continue to try to defend these Bush abusive Private Contractor problems. Yesterday's revelations have blown away any excuses or claims that this is 'old news'.

[Progressive dog]

162. FROM the WH June 11, I guess CNN made it up

The White House said Monday it welcomes a debate over the electronic surveillance programs exposed by a National Security Agency contractor, even as federal agents began building a case against the self-proclaimed leaker.

LOL It even says WH.

[awoke_in_2003]

26. What about protesting...

do you have no problems with arresting people anytime they get the gall to exercise their 1st Amendment rights?

[randome]

44. I have no problem with protesters. Not in the slightest.

During Occupy's heyday, I advocated more organized protesting instead of fighting for the right to camp out in public parks.

The power -and the weak links- are in Washington. We cannot 'shame' corporations into behaving better.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[kentuck]

45. Have you checked out this website?

www.teaparty.org

[Marr]

99. You need to see evidence, but you cheer for the incarceration of whistleblowers.

I think your priorities are pretty clear.

[kardonb]

118. bother

what bothers me is this constant whining and denigrating our country !!! Constructive criticism is one thing , bwahhhing does NOTHING !!!

[Maedhros]

126. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

- Samuel Johnson.

[RetroLounge]

38. His only concern is whether it makes Obama look bad.

Any cursory glance at his posts will tell you that.

RL

[sabrina 1]

16. So you agree with those, I think there's even a movement on this, who want to dispense with the

Constitution? How interesting.

Our Government IS spying on us as revealed in the Snowden leaks. We have confirmation of that by the President himself, who took the time to explain to us why we 'must be willing to give up some in return for security'. Take it up with the President.

[randome]

18. I have an inherent distrust of slaveholders. So sue me.

The documents S&G stole 'revealed' nothing but the metadata copies, which, as has been endlessly pointed out, are business records not subject to 4th Amendment protections and therefore legal for the government to have.

As for 'spying on us', nothing that S&G stole supports that.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[sabrina 1]

20. So what rights do you think should be taken from the American people? Everything granted in the

Constitution? All of them? Some of them? And is only some of them, which ones? I asked a pretty simple question and you veered off back to over 200 years ago.

The question was was about the rights ALL Americans are guaranteed by the Constitution TODAY. The Constitution was merely a framework, wasn't it? And a living document that has been added to over the centuries.

Your response gave the impression that you do not approve of the American People having a Constitution, but I could be wrong.

[randome]

28. My point was that our beloved Founders were very flawed individuals.

So posing the question 'Do you care about our Constitution?' is a bit disingenuous since that means different things to different people.

It meant a very different thing to slaves in 1776.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[kentuck]

30. Word salad.

BS.

[Enthusiast]

82. Camoflage....nt

[sabrina 1]

37. Still can't get an answer.

Why would someone raise such an unrelated issue as the more than two hundred year old individuals who created something that has benefited humanity when they are all long dead and the invention they created led the way to rights for all Americans?

My question was about the creation, not the creators. If I want to talk about the people I will ask about the people.

Here, let me make it simple, although frankly I don't it's necessary.

Let's say the inventor of the wheel was a scumbag. Should we destroy the wheel because the inventor was a scumbag? Or should we use his scumbagginess as an excuse to get rid of the wheel, because we don't like the wheel?

Because I am going to perfectly honest. Your statement led me to believe that because some of the FFs were slave owners, (and fyi some of them considered it a 'great evil') you think what they wrote is worthless.

I wanted to be sure, because until something changes, the Constitution is the foundation of the granting of rights and of law in this country. It is the only thing mentioned in the Oaths of Office of all of our elected officials and of the military, that they are asked to swear to defend. It's entirely possible that I was wrong about what you meant. So I asked, to be sure.

You don't have to answer the question, and I will simply stick with my own impression of what you were trying to say.

[randome]

46. All our laws are capable of being modified. Witness the many amendments that were added.

Why are we even discussing what I believe or don't believe? 'Defending the Constitution' means what, exactly? It's an empty phrase, like 'Believe in God's word'.

Is it meant to relate to the NSA? If so, we already know that metadata records are not personal property so 4th Amendment protections do not apply.

If it's not meant to relate to that, then what does 'Defend the Constitution' mean?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[kentuck]

49. What was your previous ID name?

Your words sound so familiar??

[sabrina 1]

54. Okay, I guess I was right. Thanks for the response, it explains a lot, a whole lot.

We do not know that 'our data doesn't belong to us'. Thanks for repeating this Michelle Bachman ridiculous claim.

I got verification from Verizon, in fact they were frantic to assure me, that my data belongs to me, when I called to cancel my cell phone, and told them why. I read their 'Privacy Agreement' agreement to them, which they seriously violated, to explain why I was taking my data away from them.

I'll take their word for it being that they are the ones I pay for my data and Michelle Bachman is a lunatic.

Now that I have taken my data away from them so they can no longer spy on me for the Government. Since my data is my data they and the Government will no longer have access to it. I have hidden it from them the same way people hide their jewelry from theives.

[sabrina 1]

67. Here, apparently you are in disagreement with the US Government on this, 'defending the constitution

nonsense. Have you read the oaths taken by the President and every other elected official? Or the oath taken by every member of the Military?

Take it up, this 'what does this mean, 'defending the constitution' up with the US Government.

Nothing else is required of elected officials or of the military, nothing else is mentioned in their oaths.

And if you don't understand WHY that is, why it doesn't say 'defend and protect the American people', then I don't think anyone here can help you.

[djean111]

87. So you find the Constitution iffy because it was written by slaveholders? n/t

[A Simple Game]

109. I know you are only using it as a diversion but maybe I can help you with your obsession

about slavery.

One: It was abolished in the US about 150 years ago. Use the Google if you have to, it's all there. Try a search on Civil War for a start.

Two: Nobody wants to return to owning slaves. True some would not mind and would even embrace the idea, but the cold hard facts are that it is cheaper to pay minimum wages. Do you know how much it would cost to house, feed, and care for a slave? The fact is it is not economically feasible now. And the darn things are just not that malleable, tend to think for themselves and even want to escape. Much easier when you can hold a paycheck, albeit a small one, over their heads.

[randome]

145. Quoting the Founding Fathers is the diversion.

I merely pointed out they were not sacrosanct.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[A Simple Game]

148. Well let's all thank whoever we like to thank that you had to go back

over 200 years to find a problem. Most people would have bumped into that sharp turning point in the 1860s or the other one in the 1960s. You must think things nowadays are pretty rosy.

Side note: Nowadays survived spell check, I'm surprised.

[kentuck]

22. Do you own property (land)?

Many white people could not vote if they were not property holders. So the Constitution has changed with the times. The same with your slaveholder argument. Get with the program.

[Uncle Joe]

25. I believe it's called attacking the messenger (s) to distract from the message.

The same shit happens in regards to the issue of Global Warming Climate Change, "It's just a hoax perpetrated by Al Gore because he wants to make money."

[kentuck]

27. Yep.

Nailed it!

[Marr]

100. They seem to be stuck on that mode now. /nt

[TBF]

105. +1 nt

[randome]

32. Voting rights had nothing to do with owning slaves.

Slaves did not have ANY rights. Period. So when you ask a question like 'Do you care about our Constitution?', you are asking a question you think everyone should automatically agree with.

I bet there are minorities and women's groups who don't see your question as being so easily answered.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[awoke_in_2003]

24. Oh well, then...

fuck it then.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

50. The Constitution WAS NOT WRITTEN EXCLUSIVELY by slaveholders. It was not written in part by

Thomas Jefferson. The author of the Declaration of Independence was in France at the time.

With respect to Benjamin Franklin,

"While serving as Pennsylvania’s president during the U.S. Constitution’s framing, Franklin was simultaneously president of the Pennsylvania Society for the Abolition of Slavery, a position he held until his death in 1790.

http://www.orthopaedicsone.com/display/Meetings/Benjamin+Franklin+-+Slave+Owner+and+Abolitionist

Franklin's abolitionist efforts provided some of the foundation for others who subsequently became abolitionists.

[sabrina 1]

68. I think it is clear what is going on.

John Adams refused to even have anyone in his home who owned a slave, he and his wife both calling 'slavery' one of the great evils. He never owned a slave.

The only people I have ever heard try to divert from the crimes we are witnessing against the Constitution, by using slavery, a vile thing to do imo, especially since, as you point out, many of the signers of the DOI and of the Constitution, were completely opposed to slavery, were Bush supporters when we would point out Bush's egregious violations of the Constitution.

It's a shame to see it here but then we're seeing a lot here we didn't see during the Bush years.

[theHandpuppet]

93. Well said, sabrina 1

[randome]

167. Mr. Franklin also owned two slaves.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[AnotherMcIntosh]

168. Since you are repeating yourself, this should also be repeated:

With respect to Benjamin Franklin,

"While serving as Pennsylvania’s president during the U.S. Constitution’s framing, Franklin was simultaneously president of the Pennsylvania Society for the Abolition of Slavery, a position he held until his death in 1790.

http://www.orthopaedicsone.com/display/Meetings/Benjamin+Franklin+-+Slave+Owner+and+Abolitionist

Franklin's abolitionist efforts provided some of the foundation for others who subsequently became abolitionists.

[markiv]

117. yes, concern about the constitution iIS a sign of racism

as you say, it was signed by slaveholders

supporting the constitution is no different than waving the confederate flag

exact same thing

[grahamhgreen]

150. Collecting metadata is spying on innocent people, duh.

[spin]

6. About a year ago I reread "Nineteen Eighty-Four", the novel by George Orwell. ...

I understand that the sales of this old novel have skyrocketed recently.

George Orwell's '1984' Book Sales Skyrocket In Wake Of NSA Surveillance Scandal
The Huffington Post | By Dominique Mosbergen
Posted: 06/11/2013 5:25 pm EDT | Updated: 06/12/2013 3:08 pm EDT

On June 8, 1949, George Orwell published a novel describing a fictitious world gripped in the vise of constant war and a society held captive by the ever-watchful gaze of a shadowy totalitarian dictator known as "Big Brother." The book has since found relevance again and again in our modern world.

This week, in the wake of the ongoing National Security Administration surveillance scandal, dystopian classic 1984 is again experiencing a resurgence in popularity.

Sales of at least three editions of 1984 have skyrocketed in recent days, according to Amazon's Movers & Shakers page, which tracks items with the biggest positive sales change over the past 24 hours. Sales of the Centennial Edition of the book, for instance, had increased by more than 4,000 percent as of Tuesday afternoon. The book was ranked fifth on the Movers & Shakers list at press time.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/orwell-1984-sales_n_3423185.html

I think that a lot of people are becoming concerned by the way our nation is turning into a police state.

[sabrina 1]

21. That's good to know. People really are beginning to wake up, finally.

[spin]

31. The problem is that most people have little interest in what's happening to our nation ...

as long as they can watch their "reality" TV shows.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

53. Unfortunately, some of the 1984 readers are apparently using it as a blue-print.

[spin]

73. True. (n/t)

[PowerToThePeople]

8. yes, many times over

[JNelson6563]

11. That's part of it

but damn, the fascism going on in MI is about pushing me, and many others, to the edge.

Julie

[kentuck]

12. It's all happening so quickly...

...and we have some dumbasses that want to ignore it.

[JNelson6563]

13. If only ignoring problems worked!

If the fascists still hold all power in MI after next year then we'll know how bad the ignoring has gotten.

It's scary.

Julie

[kentuck]

14. We can always blame it on Greenwald and Snowden...

We don't have the brain capacity to think beyond that.

[JNelson6563]

15. I see little of that in real life.

I see many threads here on those topics but out here in reality too many are often occupied with problems much closer to home.

Julie

[sabrina 1]

23. But the polls are showing a huge jump in the anger that is growing among the people. So it appears

that when the public has the information they need, they respond appropriately. Three separate polls over the past week show that now the people support the idea that Snowden is NOT a traitor, that is a Whistle Blower. By 56%, and up one point in the latest poll.

So there is hope. It wouldn't be the first time in history that the people slept while their rights were being stolen, then woke up in time to do something about it.

So don't give up. That immense amount of propaganda disseminated to the people here is mainly responsible for the apathy, but now it doesn't seem to be working the way it used to.

[4bucksagallon]

64. Really post the links to your poll results from the "past week".....

All the polls I found were from back in early to mid July or even back in June.
"Three separate polls over the past week"............. links please.

[JNelson6563]

84. I agree, NEVER give up!

[totodeinhere]

34. Nothing can be more close to home than the erosion of our 1st and 4th Amendment rights.

Without our rights nothing else really matters.

[JNelson6563]

83. Poverty/hunger are effective distractions!

Hard to get worked up about some things when you're scrambling to keep a roof over your head! Just sayin'.

Julie

[bvar22]

112. Careful, Julie. You are beginning to channel FDR!

[font size=3]“Necessitous men are not free men.”[/font]---FDR

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be [font size=3]established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens."
--FDR

[JNelson6563]

120. Yes!

I currently am not "free" but hope to be again sometime soon.

Just got a job at a company that is union!

Julie

[zeemike]

17. It bothers me a lot

But what bothers me more is that there are those among us that want to tell us it is no big deal and we are just being alarmist...and then put the LMAO smiley when we object...
It feels like betrayal of principles...and surrender to evil.

[chervilant]

76. I know, right?!?

If I read anything that targets these concerns, I see at least one reference to "poutrage" or "hair on fire" or some other dismissive or derisive bon mot. At this point, I don't care if the ones who post such responses are dems OR trolls -- we can ill afford to minimize or ignore the steady erosion of our democracy.

The corporate megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics AND our global economy are gleefully watching us waste our time and energy infighting about who's the purest dem, or who has Obama's back, or who's being racist. It's like we're running frantically in place, getting absolutely nowhere.

[zeemike]

88. Well said

Better than I could have said it.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Anyone can throw stones

Sure, we should always be concerned about our civil rights. But these are scary times.

While Glenn Greenwald refuses to admit it, al Qaeda have been spotted in Wisconsin. Since they now know, thanks to Greenwald and Moscow Eddie that we might listen to their phone calls, they've resorted to the clever tactic of singing in public, which the NSA has yet to be able to decrypt. The code might actually be unbreakable.

Let's keep in mind that this President and our Democrats in Congress have kept us safe, as safe as prisoners locked in solitary forever without charges or judicial recourse. And with the help of Droney and John Roberts' FISA court, we'll continue to be safe.

Regards,

Government Sock-Puppet Manny

[kentuck]

33. Now I feel safer...

Thanks Third Way Manny !

[think]

39. I hope you realize you just outed Government sockpuppet Manny

and blew his cover...

[1awake]

41. You know...

As I openly admitted years ago that I once was a Republican, I gotta say... I truly think their are people on this board who are more right wing on these issues than I EVER was. Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[think]

43. I hear ya.

Glad you made the switch...

[kentuck]

47. You notice...

the usual suspects jump over this thread? They are silent. They don't want to say where they stand on the First and Fourth Amendment rights, including our civil rights and the right to hold our government accountable. They prefer to talk about Snowden or Greenwald.

[think]

51. It's very apparent.

Deflect, demean, & derail.

That seems to be the basic program....

[1awake]

52. Yes... Unfortunately I've noticed many things,

most of which leaves me speechless.

[Divernan]

57. They put me in mind of quislings

quis·ling (kwzlng)
n.
A traitor who serves as the puppet of the enemy occupying his or her country.
[After Vidkun Quisling (1887-1945), head of Norway's government during the Nazi occupation (1940-1945).]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
quisling [ˈkwɪzlɪŋ]
n
(Military) a traitor who aids an occupying enemy force; collaborator
[after Major Vidkun Quisling (1887-1945), Norwegian collaborator with the Nazis]

To me, the "occupying enemy force(s)" are the One Percenters, MIC, NSA & the like. I fear they have passed the point of no return in their quest to destroy the middle class, the working class, the American Dream and the wonderful quality of life we once enjoyed in this country. The American Century, as we knew it, is indeed over.

[Scuba]

79. Conspicuous by their absence, indeed.

[ohheckyeah]

35. It bothers me more than I can say...

I'm fucking weary from it all. Trying to convince most people that there is a problem has been exhausting and mostly unproductive. But, yes, this kind of shit has bothered me since the 1970s.

[zentrum]

36. Yes. It bothers me.

I'm pretty depressed by the entire sad spectacle.
That a democrtaic President is doing this is the worst.
Hillary wil be no better, either.

[RetroLounge]

40. Very much so

and congrats on 68,000 posts!



RL

[think]

42. Yes. I'm actually fairly depressed about these things....

[Divernan]

58. Any sentient being holding traditional/progressive Dem. values is depressed.

I am upset to the point that I have great trouble falling asleep. I escape into my Sudoku puzzles or classic old mystery novels and read myself to sleep.

[niyad]

48. not bothered, I have been PISSED OFF about the govt of this country since the 60s. whenever

there seems to be the tiniest ray of hope that things will get better, they get uglier instead. Roe v Wade? no, now we have mandated transvaginal ultrasounds, bombing clinics, killing clinic workers, closing clinics. civil rights? stop and frisk, trayvon martin and countless others. we have the manning and snowden information, but those of us from time back remember cointelpro. every single day seems to bring some new revelation about how far the govt of this country has gone.

frankly, I am damned sick and tired of having to fight these battles again and again. make no mistake, agent mikey, I won't stop fighting, but I am damned sick of having to do so. this was not how I planned to spend these years.

(on a total side note, did you get any of that rain or hail yesterday?)

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Yes, but WI is the bloody canary in the mine

[crim son]

56. It bothers me, it grieves me.

It's going to have to get a whole lot worse before the complacent among us are willing to acknowledge that if we want change, we're going to have to do something more drastic than vote Democratic.

[DeSwiss]

59. First, we must understand that we were never truly FREE.......

“Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.

How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense.” ~V for Vendetta

[center][/center]

- K&R

[Dustin DeWinde]

60. am i really supposed to be shocked to learn that the government keeps secrets?

And am I supposed to conclude that before Obama the govt has never kept a secret and has certainly never lied?

And are you suggesting that I should now vote for a damned teabagger? Never!
As far as "without warrants", that was Bush not obama. Obama has obtained all necessary warrants from the FISA court.

If folks don't like the patriot act, fine neither do I. But why dissemble and claim Obama is breakingthe law when he clearly is not.

By the way are you a teabagger, your obvious hatred for our president and your disregard for truth suggest teabaggery.

[Divernan]

65. The OP never refers to Obama. That was YOUR conclusion - a little defensive, are we?

You accuse the OP of "disregard for truth", without backing up that accusation. It is a valid point of debate that if FISA rubber stamps over 99% of warrant requests, it is basically a kangaroo court. Here's a link for that from Wikipedia. I do hope that you don't consider Wikipedia a giant, anti-Obama plot. Bottom line: over an entire 33 year period, the FISA court has approved all but 0.03 percent of warrant requests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court

It is also rare for FISA warrant requests to be turned down by the court. During the 25 years from 1979 to 2004, 18,742 warrants were granted, while just four were rejected. Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being submitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few if any were before the year 2000. During the next eight years, from 2004 to 2012, there were over 15,100 additional warrants granted, with an additional seven being rejected. In all, over the entire 33-year period, the FISA court has granted 33,942 warrants, with only 11 denials – a rejection rate of 0.03% of the total requests.[5]

Note that Wikipedia references the Wall Street Journal for its statistics.

Meanwhile, the OP lists over a dozen other issues, none of which you replied to. Try, if it is possible, to separate your knee-jerk defense of Obama, even when Obama has not been named,to consider the realities of what's going on in this country, and whether you approve. The way to do this, is to ignore who is president, or which party controls either chamber of the US Congress, and look at the reality of what this country's government is perpetrating upon its own citizens and the citizens of the world.

An easy place for you to start would be with evaluating GOP Governor Walker versus freedom of speech, or the possibility of losing the right to vote, as per the GOP controlled states passing draconian voting requirements.

[Dustin DeWinde]

74. i commented on YOUR disregard for truth

But that was another reality you disregarded. And is there some other sitting president that the you are saying is responsible for the govt right now? We only have one president at a time but that is another truth you obviously seek to disregard.

As for Scott walker you are late to the party. Real dems/liberals/progressives were aware of his tactics long ago. Guess you missed the whole Wisconsin 7 thing and the recall where even though we didn't get walker we wrested control of the wi state senate from the gop.

So criticizing a moron like walker as cover doesn't mean your irrational hatred of our president gets a free pass.

And why not include gop gov kasich or rick scott Michigan's Snyder or Virginia's ultrasound gov bob McDonnell? There are no shortages of gop scoundrels. But you are probably one of them.

And even if the FISA court does grant govt requests most of the time, Obama still gets credit for acting within the law and going to them. Bush didn't even bother seeking warrants .

If you have a problem with the law petition your congressman to change it. But. I suspect your problem isn't with the power the law gives all presidents its that THIS president is wielding that power..

And no way in hell is anyone shocked that our spy agencies a actually do spy work. Who do you think you are fooling?

[Divernan]

86. NO. You were replying to & attacking the OP as a teabagger, to use your word.

Get a calendar, and get some kind of instruction on how threads work. You see, each of these posts has its special, very own, cute little "reply" button. You were replying to the OP.

So no matter how much you writhe and squirm and and impliedly call me a liar, your post was in reply to the OP and in it, you were in no known universe commenting on or to me. How much clearer can black and white reality of the thread be? I am not the OP. The OP is not me.

And other than naming a Republican governor, the OP was careful to discuss issues of concern without assigning responsibility to any particular individual or branch of government, or even a specific year, i.e., congress, president or USSC decisions. So when you're out shopping for a calendar & an instruction manual on how threads work, also get a civics book to explain to you how the 3 branches of the U.S. govt. work. Because you are the one who distorted the OP to claim it assigned all responsibility for the government to whomever is president "right now."

As to the OP's comment on Scott Walker, it was re Walker's actions on July 25, 2013, i.e., LESS THAN A WEEK AGO of THIS YEAR. (It is 2013, you know). This was a very RECENT (also get a dictionary to look up "recent&quot development. Walker is still the GOP Governor of Wisconsin - and his current actions are very much relevant and worthy of comment and discussion on DU.

And then we get to your uncited, undocumented, totally bizarre claim that "Bush didn't even bother seeking warrants." If you can figure out how to do this, go back to my post number 65 (sixty five) on THIS thread, and then go to the link I provided, which documents how many FISA requests were made each year since FISA was established. There is this nice, big, clear, SIMPLE chart which documents the thousands of requests made during the W.Bush years - OVER 12,000 (TWELVE THOUSAND). Those are the facts, Jack. If you wish to be taken seriously in political debate, stop pulling obviously bogus claims out of your . . . .umh . . . hat!

[Janecita]

61. It doesn't bother me as a democrat

It bothers me as a decent human being. I abhor the fact, that so many in this country seem to be so apathetic to the real issues affecting us.

[bluestateboomer]

62. It bothers me.

It has bothered me ever since the Bushies started the lying and erosion of the constitution and I knew no matter which party was in the White House that they were probably never going to give back the powers they abrogated. And it doesn't mean that I think Obama is an evil person, but the national security bureaucracy just doesn't relinquish power.

[defacto7]

63. I'm more than a whit bothered

I'm mad as hell. I am mad as hell that the years of hope begun in the 60s has died in the background long ago without us knowing the depth of that death. Now we have the beginnings of a corporate feudalism hanging over us. We are at a crossroad and it is now. If the left looses any more ground even in the short term, we will be facing a future America stripped of its historic premise creating a superficial working class mesmerized by their masters trinkets and punishments. The chasm between the powerful and the masses in this day and age will bring new untried mechanisms that haven't been experienced in history and I expect the difficulties preserving liberty would be a new game altogether.

We have to fight. We do have to give a whit. We have no choice.

[Pale Blue Dot]

66. I don't care about the 1st or the 4th,

as long as the 2nd is followed according to my interpretation of it.

[polynomial]

69. Far too many game the system

My skills are very much a novice in blog writing and interpretation. That’s what I want to improve upon. Here, in this topic “does it bother me “yes, and is so exciting especially reading the reflections of many others while making my own opinion. This new capability in the internet expands the basic elements of Democracy. Plus understanding government in how by a Democracy can with a movement change with the vote.

True, our forefathers appear to have been a combination of hierocracy and hypocrisy. All wanting freedom from the tyranny of King George of England at the same time being holders of slaves. In a sense breaking away from bad to good or what we now think is good. In the most interesting comment in our constitution is the phrase “We hold these truths to be self-evident” yes; self-evident for me is the ideal relation to nature. Our basic foundation in the constitution appears to base on science in nature rather than religion.

When having civics classes as a youngster none of the self-evident concepts was elaborated honestly, openly, or debated for results to better government. Still seems to be vanishing by those that wish to dispose of the education departments. America appears to be teaching itself via this new medium. Many frightful at the suggestion humans pollute. The next time you flush the toilet or take out the garbage think about how humans pollute.

The mainstream media was supposed to have this responsibility, however by greed or what is considered freedom of the press went Orwellian, back to tyranny. We all see it sense it, feel it intuitively something is wrong in a fight for healthcare should be a no brainer, to bring Pease not War, to get rid of poverty not to expand it, have an living working wage economy, to have a more open government not secret stuff on going forever to profiteer from, to encourage education as the engine of progress, and especially to understand any religion believe but do not force others to your wants.

As an American we are survivors, I served my country by participating in the military to defend freedom. How many out there did the same, believe me it was not easy. Please don’t call me an infidel in that my governance should follow someone’s mental suggestion in what god is or is not. This leads me to my conclusion about anyone who is random in thought.

The argument that Snowden is a traitor has some truth to it. Yes he did violate a law. Some secret stuff many of us don’t understand because it collects Meta data which is nothing more than business things that are not important. That begs the question then why or why is it so important for our very rich one percent to do this secretly. Why not open transparency for all to view to use.

Think about it perhaps information such as Meta data is a violation of the constitution or amendment. However one of my possessions is a believe not a material solid matter like papers or possessions, it is a believe a thinking that takes action now violated, that is my behavior. This is the Meta data file secretly collected listed to generate reports that can be used to adjust my behavior. Perhaps to surrender my freedom…

[reusrename]

75. It's a new and complicated issue. It compares with discussions on nuclear detente.

The metadata is the greater danger to liberty and freedom.

[woo me with science]

71. It's all for profit.

Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:45 AM - Edit history (1)

Switching to the corporate code of ethics and morality should not be much harder than switching to the metric system...

Should it?

K&R, and to the Greatest Page.

[TheKentuckian]

72. Way past a whit.

I also think we are in danger of being able to vote and it having no actual impact on decision making and that is actually a greater risk to self determination because the person who knows they are subject with no say has a clear goal of gaining franchise.
The person with a sham vote is a much easier mark and potentially subject to the misconception that they are participating in their own governance and has little or no way of correcting the problem within the rigged system.

[Enthusiast]

78. kentuck, it bothers the shit out of me.

The nation has undergone a major transformation and we are supposed to shut up about it. We are supposed to pretend that nothing is different.

Every single Democrat should be screaming their heads off, but, incredibly, we have Democratic Party defenders of this New World Order®.

[Scuba]

80. Several large whits. Thanks Kentuck.

[Skidmore]

89. Did Bush's first amendment zones and arrest

of protestors bother you? Do you understand that Republicans have used this tactic over and over again to shape and skew debate? Did you read David Corn's piece on a full on assault on the left? It is time to recognize who the enemy is and organizwe on the left because aiding the RW with cranking up the mighty Wurlizter again just isn't going to resolve these issues.

[kentuck]

91. Can you explain this a little further?

"...because aiding the RW with cranking up the mighty Wurlizter again just isn't going to resolve these issues. "

" Do you understand that Republicans have used this tactic over and over again to shape and skew debate?"

What are you suggesting that Democrats should do?

[DLevine]

90. What's happening is horrific. I'm angry and disgusted by all of it. nt

[Alkene]

92. Yes,

and has since mid-way through the first term of the Clinton administration

[treestar]

94. Your hypos are imaginary

I don't know about the WI case, but I can be pretty sure no one was arrested for "singing." People can speak against any office holder in this country. They just don't have unlimited rights to disrupt other things while at it.

[sabrina 1]

97. But elected officials have 'unlimited rights' to abuse their power without interruption by the

people?

The American Revolution was on huge crime because they sure felt they had unlimited rights to oppose bad policies up to and including declaring war on their leaders.

It's funny how Americans celebrate the American Revolution yet without realizing it, condemn it at the same time.

Peaceful protesters DO have unlimited rights to interrupt lying, cheating, power hungry abusers of their office, according to the 1st Amendment of the Constitution written by those who declared the unlimited rights of citizens to oppose abusive policies and those who implement them.

I see we are now opposed to the US Constitution right here in this thread. So to see the defense of a citizen being denied the rights granted in the Constitution should not be a surprise I suppose.

Where in your opinion, do the rights of the people to protest their government's abuses, end?

As for this:

People can speak against any office holder in this country.

No, they do not, and they especially no longer have the right to speak against Wall St without being beaten nearly to death, jailed, and tortured. The abuses perpetrated against peaceful protesters in the US attracted the attention of the UN.

[niyad]

98. your first line said it. you "don't know anything about the WI case" in that case, you are not

qualified to say what did not happen. this oversight is easy to correct--go back over the threads here on DU, or look at many news headlines. really helpful. I suppose the man who was arrested just the other day for carrying a sign about WI constitution's freedom of speech section did not actually happen, because you are "pretty sure it didn't"

wow. . . just. . ..wow

[Egalitarian Thug]

136. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see.

Kicking the tread is good, but don't imagine that this one is looking for fact.

[Bonobo]

146. "Your hypos are imaginary"

That's comedy gold right there!

[noiretextatique]

96. it is all very troubling to a few

But of little concern to the many. I am almost ready to give up and move to a country where I can afford to live without working 40 hours per week.

[Zorra]

101. Honestly, kentuck, the fascism I am increasingly seeing displayed here is breaking my old yellowdog

heart.

I can only hope that they are sockbots and freeper trolls, and not a genuine representation of what the Democratic party has become.

Because that would mean that Reagan, Bush and the PNAC neocons won.

[LWolf]

102. More than a little.

Perhaps the only thing that bothers me more are apologists who try to rationalize the loss of civil liberties away in order to protect a Democratic Administration.

We need a united front.

[stupidicus]

103. I started being bothered a couple of decades ago

when the DLC/"lefty" appendage of the corporate state materialized on our political landscape.

It's provided much dismay, but few surprises.

[raouldukelives]

104. I suffered outrage fatigue during W's run. So many outrages, so little time to digest til the next.

The outrages continue unabated. I really don't know where I am now.
And yes, it makes it even worse that not only do most not seem to care, many actively work against us. Knowing full well what the hours they put in at JP Morgan will mean, what the money they sock away in mutual funds will sow. They are beyond caring about anything but themselves.
As long as the money flows, as long as they can jet set and buy new cars. No loss of liberty or Arctic ice is too much for them.

[lynne]

106. Seems this was more about not getting a permit -

- and not so much about singing.

http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_23762151/wisconsin-police-arrest-30-more-sing-along-protesters

"They have refused to get permits for their gathering, saying the state constitution allows them to peaceably assemble without the government's permission."

As they're singing inside the building, a permit is required. It's a shame, too, as they sing really well from what little I heard.

[Caretha]

114. Have you no conscience?

Does it bother you just a wee little bit that we are using drones to kill people in other countries, some of them innocent? Do you really think we are killing all our enemies or do you think we are only making more enemies?

Not at all.

Only sociopaths think like you.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24164/a-list-of-children-killed-by-drone-strikes-in-pakistan-and-yemen

A Marine Times article on December 3 ran the alarming headline “Some Afghan kids aren’t bystanders," reporting on the death of three children in Afghanistan. They were apparently targeted by a U.S. military drone because they appeared to be digging a hole in a road.

Army Lt. Col. Marion Carrington, quoted in the article, said that “It kind of opens our aperture” that children are being used in the conflict. “In addition to looking for military-age males, it’s looking for children with potential hostile intent.”

Proponents of the drone war, including President Barack Obama, claim that drone strikes are precise and only target terrorists. But a study from Columbia Law School’s Human Rights Institute finds that the number of Pakistani civilians killed in drone strikes is “significantly and consistently underestimated" and that as many as 98% of those killed by drone strikes are civilians.

Screw International Law against killing civilians - Empires are not bound by any laws

[heaven05]

108. In

regard to spying, I'm disappointed in our Pres. because he didn't dismantle the apparatus, spying has been done, bigtime, starting with BUSH. So don't blame our Pres. for that one. And yes the other things being done by american's to others in foreign countries do bother me. Yes starting with the PATRIOT ACT I have been bothered about our personal, civil and human rights being stripped, Bush again, Obama culpable because he did not mount a direct attack against this neocon, fascist Act. Sure all that bothers me, now what are we going to do about it?

[Jack Rabbit]

115. It bothers me, and more than a little bit

We have every right to know what Assange, Manning and Snowden have told us. We have every right to demand of elected officials that they listen to the voters and not to corporate criminals who foot the bill for their re-election campaigns. We have every right to demand that our elected officials stop aiding and abetting corporate crime by massive surveillance of the people who might not want the government to start another imperialist war for the benefit of war profiteers.

Yes, we can lose everything that made America great. This is the America of the Koch brothers we are seeing, a fascist America where the people are the enemies of the state that exists only to pave the way for corporate domination.

[Faux pas]

116. So, what's the fix?

When I've posted stuff like this I've gotten nothing but grief, that's why I quit posting stuff like this.

[Jack Rabbit]

119. Here's your training manuel (PDF)

Gene Sharp, From Dictatorship to Democracy

Roll up your sleeves. Be prepared to die.

[Faux pas]

163. Are all of us reading this?

[Jack Rabbit]

164. I hope so

It was the SOP for the Arab Spring.

[Faux pas]

165. Thank you!

Was it posted as a thread by itself? If it was, I missed it.

[Safetykitten]

121. Sorry, I have issues of my own. I have to get online for Amazon, go to Costco,

stop at McDonalds and get lunch and then get pissy that they are not fast enough at the drive trough.

[Auntie Bush]

122. The amendment that I'd like to take away is the 2nd.

If the Rethugs can change Roe vs Wade...we can change the meaning of the second amendment.
There is no dispute about the meaning of R vs W but the second amendment is just a matter of interpretation.

There is no problem interpreting the 1st amendment. We have a right to protest! When is someone who has been peacefully and wrongly arrested going to take it to the SC?

[Jakes Progress]

123. Democrats didn't do that stuff.

The ones who helped the republicans with their dreams were "new democrats", reagan democrats, and third-way sell-outs with a D by their name.

[Bertha Venation]

124. It scares me, kentuck, and I feel absolutely powerless.

All I have is one voice and one vote. I haven't the time nor the physical ability to join protests. Letters to my Congress critters are useless; they're all liberals, too, all three of them. So's my governor.

I feel powerless.

[fredamae]

127. Bothers Me a Lot

especially when our state dept urges Egypt to Respect Protesters Rights to Peacefully Assemble!!!???!!

"Wednesday, July 31


"17:30 GMT: A spokeswoman for the US Department of State urged Egypt to respect the demonstrators’ right to peaceful assembly shortly after the signal that decisive action was to be taken against them.

"We have continued to urge the interim government to respect the right of peaceful assembly," deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf told a regular daily briefing. "That obviously includes sit-ins.""


http://rt.com/news/egypt-milllions-protest-morsi-458/

[ancianita]

130. We've lost. Because for decades we didn't know who was doing what to us while it was happening.

Because we have not known how to prevent the systematic stripping of such rights. Because after we got a general idea, we still don't know the exact agents to hold accountable. We don't know that those who say they'll help restore those rights are to be trusted.

I don't see losing our civil rights as just a possibility, but a done deal. You get the rights you can enforce. But I don't see how the public is systematically able to sue their own government -- or fight it any other way -- to restore their rights.

I do care. But many don't care because they think, 'what's the use of caring about what you can't control.' Can this country's 50 different judicial systems and citizens really regain lost civil rights? Can the old methods of public assembly and protest ever win the hearts and minds of captured government, or win agains the biggest militarized security system on the planet?

[lark]

133. I obsess over every one of these!

It bothers me greatly that we lost our country with the felonious five breaking the constitution to put their guy in office, despite the fact that he lost. It's been all downhill since then. I thought that the election of Obama would reverse the bad trends, but in many important ways, he's socially moderate but economically always favors the 1%.

[kentuck]

134. I think our mistake was not to pressure him to put more liberals in his Cabinet.

The President needs to hear many voices. After Bush II, the last thing we needed was a moderate on economic matters and national security matters. We needed radical change in both areas. We got it in neither.

[Scootaloo]

135. I have to refrain from expressing my opinion regarding Scott Walker

Expressing it would make me look like a very uncivilised person. or a judge from Singapore.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

137. It bothers me every time I recite The pledge of Allegiance

that I remember all those lies my government told us.

[KansDem]

140. The Constitution: It's not just a "piece of paper."

It's a "goddamn piece of paper."

Think maybe attitudes like this one from the POTUS might contribute to the zeitgeist?

[madrchsod]

143. yup....

my neighbors to the north deserve better than walker. illinois is one of the last industrial great lake states to have a democratic governor. not sure what 04 will hold but we are going to the best we can to hold the state.

ya it bothers me because i`m 66 and have kids,grandkids,and great grandkids who i hope that they live well into this century.

[obxhead]

144. I've been told by a couple of DU'ers

To get over my 4th amendment bs.

National security!!!

[FiveGoodMen]

147. And that's why we've lost

Because even among our own rank there are traitors.

You heard me!

[avaistheone1]

149. K&r

[Pharaoh]

151. YES!!!!!!!!!!

Bothers me a fuck of alot!!!

[Bake]

152. Nope. Not one little bit.

It bothers me a HELL OF A LOT!!!

Bake

[99Forever]

158. Bothers me?

That word doesn't begin to cover where I am at and have been for several years.


Not many would listen when I and a few others raised our voices about the direction this all was headed. What's ahead is going to be ugly beyond anything you can imagine.

[DirkGently]

166. Multiple, large whits are given, by me. +++

[WillyT]

169. K & R !!!