Weird family contretemps

[markpkessinger]

This past weekend, I attended a family gathering at my sister's place. It included all four of my siblings and their spouses, as well as their children and their children's spouses and grandchildren. Now, here's the thing: I come from a family (particularly my siblings) who all hold very strong political opinions. And we are all over the political map. We made a conscious decision to avoid political discussions at family events because they tend to get extremely heated. Fair enough.

So, this past weekend, a bunch of us were sitting around discussing various things. I have one nephew who is a Florida State Trooper -- whom I don't see very often given the distance. In the course of talking about various topics, said nephew began talking about various stories related to his work. In the course of that discussion, the topic of capital punishment came up. I mentioned that I am pretty much 100% opposed to it. Said nephew says how he's all for it, and references a fellow cop he knew who had been killed. I went on to say that, while I am opposed to it, I am also opposed to a system that values the lives of law enforcement over those they serve; and while I would prefer to see capital punishment eliminated, I don't agree with a system that effectively says, by stipulating capital punishment in cases where members of law enforcement are the victims, yet not so stipulating for cases in which members of the general public are the victims, that the lives of law enforcement are somehow more important than other lives.

I was totally unprepared for the intensity of my nephew's reaction. "That's a shitty statement to make," he said, continuing, "You have no idea what was face on a daily basis." I tried to protest that I have great respect for what law enforcement faces, but he interjected, "No, you don't." I tried to explain again, and again I was interrupted with "No, you don't." "That's a really shitty statement. It's offensive. Now, we had better just stop talking about this right now."

I dropped the subject immediately, not wanting to ruin a family gathering with an argument. The next day, most of my nieces and nephews had left, and it was just my siblings and their spouses remaining. Said nephew's father (my brother-in-law), proceeds to make a very pointed comment about how we should all just enjoy seeing one another and shouldn't get into things like politics. One of my sisters spoke up and mentioned that said comment should be equally directed at the next generation of the family, and said she thought that the intensity of that particular nephew's reaction was really uncalled for. I didn't say much of anything at that point.

The more I think about the way things unfolded, the more pissed I become. You see, a conversational topic only seems to become labeled "political" if I happen to contribute an opinion that some of the more conservative members of the family disagree with. I mean, I'm willing to avoid politics and all, but let's get real here: conversations come up, things are discussed, and the line between what is specifically "political" isn't always that clear-cut. I'm finding myself very resentful at having been cast as the "person who brings up politics," when I merely offered an opinion about a topic that others had brought up. And if the topic was particularly sensitive for my nephew, he could have said as much without the intense hostility and disrespect.

Anyway, I'm not sure what, if anything, I will do about it (maybe nothing). But I needed to vent -- thanks for listening.

[elehhhhna]

1. A state trooper acting like a controlling assho__?

NO! Really?


Let it go. It's HIS problem, not yours. Nice the Aunt has your back.

These repubby types like to shut down discussions with emotional overreach and bullying.

[markpkessinger]

8. Thanks . . .

. . . I was hesitant, for some reason, to use the word 'bullying,' but that's exactly what it is. Anyway, you're right -- it's his problem, not mine. Thanks for the feedback!

[Fumesucker]

2. Conservatives aren't being political when they give their opinions on things

That's only when liberals speak up.

I ran into exactly the same thing Thanksgiving before last, I've even got an OP up about it from the time.

Of course we get the same crap from centrists, only liberal opinions are political.

[ohheckyeah]

3. This type of thing seems to be typical

in families with conservatives....they are allowed to state their opinion and those of us who disagree are supposed to keep our mouths shut. If we don't, we are the ones starting something.

I explained to my family members who pulled this shit that if they didn't want to hear my opinion they could keep their opinion to themselves but if they bring stuff up I will speak up and if they don't like it, tough shit.

I'm done with enabling them to get by with their bullying - and make no mistake, it is bullying. Something conservatives are very good at doing.

I have a couple of family members who would bring up shit and if I made a comment they would say "I don't want to talk about it." To which I now reply, "fine, you can listen for a change."

[MADem]

4. Wow--like DU, only in real life!!!!

Be the bigger person.

Let it go. The vent was worthy, though!

You aren't wrong, but being right with a crowd that just won't see things your way is a no-win situation.

That poor nephew might have gotten a lousy performance review. He might be in hot water with his boss. Who knows?

In future, if anyone brings up politics, I would suggest that you loudly, pointedly and with humor in your voice, say "OOOOOPSIE--that smells like some POLITICKIN' to MEEEE!! I'm not gonna go near that with a big thick broomhandle, or a twenty foot pole!!!" Then cackle a bit....it'll make the point, without you expressing any opinion at all, that THEY, not YOU, brought up the "politics."

[Fumesucker]

5. You'd think that would work

But you'd be wrong in a lot of cases.

Conservative opinion isn't political, it's common sense, everyone knows that.

[MADem]

7. If you point out that it's politics, and they deny it, then the logical response is

"Since this topic isn't POLITICAL, and you've deemed it so, then I can safely throw MY opinion into the mix without catching a bullshit accusation from y'all...!"

It's not hard to play rope-a-dope with people like that. It just takes patience.

[Fumesucker]

9. It's not the strong right partisans that's the problem so much as the rest of the family

The rest of them are thoroughly used to hearing these folks spout off constantly and it's soaked in as just being "common sense" whereas when you give a different view it's seen as "political".

Yes, I'm baffled by it but I run into it all the time. It's basically the same sort of thing that atheists deal with when we run into an overbearing Christian among cultural Christians that aren't so strong. What we say is just wrong and argumentative while what the strong Christian says is not seen in the same light.

The right wing slant of the media for the last thirty plus years has utterly poisoned the discourse in America.

[MADem]

12. I still say Ruin Their Fun....errr....I mean, "call politics" and INSIST upon a change of subject!

Put a burr in their saddle, what the heck!

I had a proselytizer in one of my religiously-diverse workcenters when I was a midgrade officer; I had to ask him if he understood the meaning of the term courts martial before he finally STFU'd.

I'm sure I got the Meanie of the Week award at his house of worship, but Oh, Well. He shut up, he went and sinned no more, as it were. I was no Captain Queeg, but I had a reputation for not playing.

[Fumesucker]

14. Trust me, if I could bring some of my family up on charges things would be different

[markpkessinger]

23. This is totally consistent with my experience . . .

. . . and the comparison with what goes on with "cultural Christians" in the face of overbearing ones is very apt.

[markpkessinger]

10. Thank you . . .

. . . That seems like very wise advice, indeed. Thanks for the feedback!

[MADem]

13. Cheers, never let it get ya down.

Take comfort in knowing you're the smart one in the room!

[functioning_cog]

6. regardless of how a person feels on either side, he sounds out of line

I think law enforcement officers do have a tough job that can involve risking their lives, but I agree with you tha the double standard is sickening.

[markpkessinger]

11. Yeah . . .

. . . What really got to me was being accused of not respecting the job law enforcement does merely because I held a different opinion from my nephew on this one issue.

[functioning_cog]

17. oh well. some people are so invested in their feeling--they can't be open

to other ways of thinking. I'm sure he receives daily indoctrination in that belief system through his peers, reporting structure, etc.

[reformist2]

15. But didn't you suspect he might react strongly to your statement?

Considering he was a trooper and hardly unbiased on the matter, I would have asked him what he thought of that policy first, rather than so bluntly stating my opinion (which is similar to yours, btw.)

[markpkessinger]

16. If I had thought about it for a minute, sure . . .

. . . But you know, it was a free-flowing conversation with family members, so I didn't carefully weigh every statement. I guess I figured he might disagree (although I don't think that assumption needs to be accepted as a given); I just wasn't prepared for the intensity with which he expressed it.

[DevonRex]

18. I am against the death penalty too. Maybe I can help with the anger a little.

First, I disagree with what I'm going to tell you. But this is how the argument goes.

Many in LE think a sure death penalty for cop killers might help prevent deaths of LEOs at the hands of criminals.

So, they are not looking at it as elevating LEOs above regular people, in terms of punishment for their murders. They feel that LEOs are exposed to criminals on a regular basis so are at huge risk. They just want to mitigate the risk as much as possible.

I agree with the huge risk. But not the deterrent effect of the death penalty. It wasn't political, really, to your nephew. It was personal. He's young and still afraid. Perhaps he had a recent experience that brought his mortality home. Take a deep breath and let this one go.

But, if it happens on another subject let 'em have it - without losing your temper. I have the same problems when I visit home. As long as I keep my cool I can point out that they're all ganging up on the only Democrat and they should either let me have my say or talk about something else.

[markpkessinger]

22. Thanks . . .

. . . you've offered some good, and insightful, advice. Much appreciated!

[steve2470]

19. I agree with MADem's approach tweaked to your style

Otherwise, you only have two options:

1- Be quiet and get resentful or
2- Blurt out your opinions uncensored and deal with the reactions.

I think the somewhat playful approach gets the point across diplomatically and allows you to express your opinions. They might just shut up in the future knowing they have to tolerate you. Maybe not. At least you get to speak freely if they do not.

Good luck !

[pnwmom]

20. Are any of them Christian or Jewish? Tell them you don't want to get involved

in a religious argument -- but the Ten Commandments say "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

Watch 'em sputter.

[markpkessinger]

21. They're all nominally protestant, but not particularly religious n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

24. The 'Thin Blue Line' is a religion for some people.

[longship]

25. First time I've seen "contretemps" in a DU thread title.

Oh! And an interesting read as well.

R& for both.

[Scuba]

26. Stifling the discussion of "political" issues is not healthy for a democracy.

[MADem]

29. It's healthy for family harmony and social gatherings, though! nt

[treestar]

27. My observation is that right wingers are the ones to bring it up

the topic "came up" and one can bet it was a right winger who did it. They can't keep their opinions to themselves. It's part of right wing mental make-up.

[pipi_k]

28. People don't always

have to agree, but I do believe that one way to keep things from getting heated is for someone...the bigger person, perhaps...to concede that even though he doesn't agree, he can understand the other person's side of an issue.

If people are reasonable and don't want to ruin an event, it should take some of the hot air out of the argument.

You wouldn't be compromising your principles...just acknowledging that someone else has an opinion as worthy as your own, even if you personally think it's wrong.

Might be something to try at the next event when things get a little tense...

[a la izquierda]

30. Welcome to my world.

I totally understand where you're coming from. My family is similar, though it's mostly my husband's siblings who will goad me into political conversations. My blood family knows a little better (though if alcohol is involved, all bets are off).

I generally shrug my shoulders, find a book, and go off into a corner.

[DirkGently]

31. Conservatives get very angry when reason is brought into it.

Contrary to one of their big talking points, they like to go with raw emotion, especially with topics like brutal punishment for all the various evil doers. Suggesting that something has been proven not to work, or doesn't follow logically, or shows prejudice or ethno-centrism of any kind feels to them like a massive, uncalled for kick in the shins.

I was once caught off guard by a close acquaintance casually chuckling that then-candidate Obama was a "one-man terrorist sleeper cell" based on the then-popular Bill Ayers meme. I pointed out -- mildly, I thought -- that was pretty outrageous conclusion given the "evidence" was that Obama worked on a Republican-sponsored education committee, funded by a big McCain supporter, on which Ayers happened to work as well. I noted McCain was tight with S & L criminal Neil Bush and "aim for the Federal agent's head" Gordon Liddy, and yet no one thought for a second to suggest McCain must be a fraudster or an "admirer of Hitler's early speeches" like his two "associates."

Heads and hearts exploded in a really hurtful and unexpected way.

I think we have to let the conservatives in our lives know that not everyone agrees with the insanity foisted on them, but in a way that doesn't introduce the full weight of truth or logic all at once. Sometimes a questioning or mildly incredulous tone can help. "Really? I don't follow -- what does that mean, exactly? Who is saying that?"

Then they can decide whether silence is the better policy, or whether they want to risk an actual adult conversation about the topic.

[carolinayellowdog]

32. two kinds of family reunions-- nonpolitical nonsectarian vs. political and religious

Thanks for sharing this story. Several years ago I wrote a book based on genealogical research on my father's side of the family, and the reception from his paternal and maternal relatives was like night and day. His maternal cousins have a reunion in the rural county where both families lived in the 18th-19th century; the paternal cousins have theirs in the far exurbs of Raleigh where most of that line moved in the early 20th. Dad's mother's people engage in awful rightwing racist political speech; I posted back when joining Facebook about a cousin who called Obama a Muslim Socialist Illuminati (to which I replied that he's a Christian capitalist and that is not meant as a compliment-- WHOOSH.)

The book details political dissidence in the 19thc-- southern Unionists-- and mulatto ancestry in the 18thc. One side is completely comfortable, wants to read my books and hear about DNA evidence etc.; the other side has not been heard from in the five years since the book came out. Bottom line, as it relates to your story, is that the friendly paternal side NEVER talks politics or religion at reunions; the unfriendly material side ALWAYS does, without any clue that conservative Christians don't include the entire extended family.
Lack of empathy by wingers seems to be the root cause; most liberals would rather avoid stressful disagreements in such settings and have some clue as to what kinds of remarks are off limits.