On His Jobs Tour, Obama Touts Amazon Jobs That Are Literally Out Of Reach

[onehandle]

Those jobs that President Barack Obama just touted Tuesday afternoon in Chattanooga, Tenn., are literally beyond reach of most of the people who might fill them.

The president visited an Amazon warehouse on the city's industrial periphery to spotlight a hopeful surge in recent hiring, part of his campaign to urge job creation as the fix for middle class decline. But the first part of landing a job is getting to the workplace. Getting to the Amazon warehouse is a formidable challenge for anyone lacking a car: The Chattanooga bus system doesn't go there.

This disconnect between available jobs and the public transit system is a problem across many major American cities. It is a problem normally discussed in isolation, as if public transportation were some sort feel-good, clean air-generating pursuit for endangered species-loving people who eat wheat grass. In reality, our shortage of public transportation represents a full-blown crisis at the center of the explanation for how millions of Americans have found themselves exiled from working life.

Nearly 40 million working-age Americans reside in parts of metropolitan areas that effectively lack public transportation, according to an analysis by the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Program. Another Brookings study found that in the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas, nearly half of all jobs were more than 10 miles beyond the downtown core. Two-thirds of the jobs in these cities were beyond range of a 90-minute commute using mass transit.

For people who can afford cars, the takeaway from these numbers is straightforward: Drive to work and hope you keep earning enough to pay for gas, insurance and any unplanned maintenance. Even for people in this group, the risks can be considerable. Many people fall into joblessness when their car breaks down, depriving them of the means to get to work -- a downward spiral that can extend all the way down to homelessness.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-s-goodman/on-his-jobs-tour-obama-to_b_3678474.html

Note: I am not a President Obama basher. But celebrating the centralization of low paying jobs in giant warehouses out of reach of the vast majority of Americans is 'Bush'-league. Like Walmart, Amazon is killing thousands of small businesses. Yes, some smaller businesses sell their wares through Amazon, but it is less than 10% of their sales.

There are an embarrassing number of DUers celebrating this.

[liberal N proud]

1. In reality, how many jobs in America have access to public transportation?

I know the place I work in Suburban Cleveland does not have access to any one who does not have a car.

A majority of workplaces in the country do not have easy access to public transportation. Outside the central urban areas you are out of luck.

[onehandle]

3. One of these warehouses, which are not near central urban areas, will kill thousands of businesses.

Which were spread all around, accessible to many.

In turn, killing thousands of more businesses which served the workers of these small businesses.

It's not just book stores, clothing stores, electronics stores, etc that Amazon is killing.

It's the nearby sandwich shop, drug store, convenience stores etc that Amazon is killing.


Just like Walmart does. But at least Walmarts are spread about a bit.

[liberal N proud]

5. I will not argue that big box is killing the small business

[joeglow3]

21. And it creates many new businesses

It helped create a market for a friend of mine who sells goods on Amazon. Without it, she would never generate enough sales just locally to survive.

[onehandle]

22. A sliver of their sales. Moved from sites like eBay and Etsy.

Still resulting in a loss of local jobs.

[Bake]

116. The marketplace changes. Nothing is guaranteed.

Local businesses get hurt by Amazon, but they have to either compete or get knocked out of the game.

And yes, it sucks, but there ARE ways for local businesses to compete.

Bake

[NickB79]

69. John McCain said the same thing

It did not go over well: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aJXBcBPLYnWY

[zeemike]

32. The first job I ever had was about 1958 in Seattle Wa.

And I went to work on the electric trolley that came by on the corner every 15 minutes and if I remember it cost 15 cents...you could live in that city and never own a car.

So we have come way down in our living standards IMO.

[jtuck004]

47. Here's an article today that mentions it...

"Even though a third of Americans don't drive cars, 45% of households lack access to transit.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/10-signs-that-us-infrastructure-is-a-disaster-2013-7#ixzz2adsujggU


h/t to http://www.ritholtz.com

[WinkyDink]

59. The former Bethlehem Steel plant was smack in the middle of the city, with plenty of buses right to

it.

My father rode one every day, catching it at the corner of our small-town street.

Now it's a Sands Casino, and the buses still go there.

[liberal N proud]

64. But that is not true for 90% of America

Never has been.

Outside of the area where there are both a population concentration and large concentration of jobs, there are a lot of facilities with absolutely no transportation other than a personal vehicle.

I worked in Missouri for 20 years, a rural town, 12,000 population and a small college. The factory I worked at was 2 miles from the center of town, there were corn fields between town and the facility. Much of America is like that!

[WinkyDink]

122. True enough. The best of America is its "bread-basket," but its weakness is revealed with its

lack of intelligent infrastructure.

[bluestate10]

119. The San Francisco Bay area. New York City. Chicago. nt

[liberal N proud]

123. Storm Lake Iowa, Lorain Ohio, Wamego Kansas

Thousands of towns with manufacturing that have no transportation.

The world is not just New York Chicago and San Francisco.

[PowerToThePeople]

2. even if you own your vehicle outright

a moderate commute will set you back a couple of thousand dollars a year in fuel, insurance, and basic maintenance. This is all after tax dollars. Major repairs add substantially to this.

[Crow73]

43. And because

Wages continue to stagnate without any hope of improvement or pressure for the powers that be.
If both parties are bought and paid for, what chance does anyone have of living the American Dream?

[sinkingfeeling]

4. How many retail jobs have disappeared due to Amazon? I want the

small retail stores back in my community.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. Public transportation was not a forte of the previous, Republican party.

And certain areas have their challenges. In Florida, for example, public transportation has only recently become a priority, though everyone knows you need a car to get anywhere.

So, the attention is good, but the criticism against Obama may be a little misplaced.

[mick063]

7. It won't be long before he tours sweat shops

Claiming the Recovery is well under way.

People should be pissed at this choice of venue. It sends a clear message that worker pay, benefits, and safety are of secondary concern.

Thirty two trillion is hidden offshore and the President tours a symbolic failure for workers as if it is a victory parade.

[forestpath]

11. +1000

[leftstreet]

13. +1

Maybe one of the new non-union auto manufacturers!

[dlwickham]

52. did you make a wrong turn someplace on the information highway?

sweat shops?

[bluestate10]

120. The post does seem out of place. Of course, you are more likely to get silenced because

you questioned the logic of the post.

[dlwickham]

139. questioning logic on here is likely to get one silenced

lot of group think going on and has been for as long as I can remember

[BlueStreak]

108. +1

Really, are there no actual success stories?

Next stop, Sam's Club to talk about how a job is the glue that holds our society together. And then a brief stop for lunch at Chick-Fil-A to highlight a business that brings its morals to the workplace.

It is as if he is doing everything possible to really piss off the people who have supported him.

[LittleBlue]

113. +1000000

Nailed it

McDonalds and Dennys min wage jobs will be his glorious recovery. He doesn't realize that his legacy will be poverty and despair.

[JoePhilly]

8. What if the location helps small businesses that are nearby?

And usually, residential neighborhoods would prefer that a giant warehouse, and the associated traffic, be placed some distance from their homes.

The article complains about the travel distance, you agree, and then you tack on how Amazon kills local jobs.

So which beef is it really?

[leftstreet]

12. McDonalds, Burger King, Redbox, AutoZone, Sears...n/t

[JoePhilly]

15. Please let us know which businesses are OK.

Thanks.

[leftstreet]

16. You indicated 'small' businesses. Pls list them n/t

[seabeckind]

17. Nonsense

That's the argument a company makes to justify their chosing a location that offers them monetary advantage.

Most times they don't want to deal with city regs or zoning. It's a lot easier to go out and grab some unincorporated field from a farmer and pay him 3 times what it's worth (usually not much), get a nice fat state subsidy, get some taxfree land for 10 years, have the county make the roads and infrastructure to support the place, a little "incentive" for the county gov't...

and they're in the money.

Oh, and after the sunset of the incentives?

Close up shop and move.

[seabeckind]

19. Addendum...

As you drive out of any medium sized or larger city,

just how many empty buildings do you see? Just about all with a "for lease" sign in front of it? Why can't the company locate in one of those buildings?

To answer my own question...because the incentive to a company is to carry that property on their books as a loss item. The last thing they want is to lease it.

Oh, and I think it's one of those "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" things. A different company won't try to use that building cause it's part of the culture.

After they relocate and the incentives are used up...slap a "for lease" sign on it when they padlock the gates and whine to the local gov't that they can't afford to pay their taxes on it.

Profit over people. Time to change the corporate charter rules.

[JoePhilly]

20. So a new warehouse, with jobs, is a bad thing.

I get the sense that the complaining about the commute in this thread is disingenuous.

[seabeckind]

24. I believe in reuse.

When there's a usable facility that already exists within 10 or 15 miles of the proposed facility it seems pretty wasteful to construct a new one.

Maybe the attitude should be to exhaust the existing alternatives.

Example...a new auto plant built 35 miles outside of a rustbelt city, out in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure (yet), while ignoring an old GM plant in the area between the downtown and the suburbs.

And the only adequate workforce a long way off. The cost of doing business is shifted from the business to the employee.

Different example: the Indianapolis terminal was relocated to the far fringe of the existing airport. Said they did it to save the airlines taxying(sp?) cost. No transportation for the people. The cost was shifted from the airline to the people. Good thing? Oh, and the people paid for this.

[totodeinhere]

48. Sometimes retrofitting an existing facility is less cost effective than simply constructing

a new facility.

[mick063]

25. Do you understand the concept of working poor?

Republicans make jobs the talking point. Progressives make pay, benefits, and safety the talking points.

You sound soooooo Republican.

[JoePhilly]

30. Now you are just trying to hurt my feelings.

Not very liberal of you.

I grew up just slightly above poor, and my family was on welfare a few times, so I definitely understand what working poor means.

Is your argument that the people who will work in that warehouse will be paid too little, have little or no benefits, or that hey will be subject to dangerous working conditions.

Or, that they'll have to commute.

Usually, the opening of a new business is a positive thing. Apparently not this time.

And if this business isn't the right kind, what's your proposal?

The concern about a business like Amazon putting say smaller stores out of business reflects a serious problem ... what's your solution?

Make internet shopping illegal?

I see lots of complaining in this thread, not many suggestions for getting people back to work.

[leftstreet]

33. How 'bout a WPA-style National Jobs Program?

I see lots of complaining in this thread, not many suggestions for getting people back to work.

Sounds good to me!

[JoePhilly]

57. So jobs for unskilled people buidling new roads that other people will drive on

to other jobs, right?

I'm being somewhat factitious there (I think we definitely need more infrastructure programs), but what makes those jobs "better" than the jobs being discussed here?

The jobs in the program you refer to weren't careers. Most were part time jobs (under 40 hours), and the unions didn't like the competition.

And I don't see how one negates the value or benefit of the other.

[leftstreet]

96. That's a little bigoted

People who build things aren't 'unskilled,' and they don't build things so 'other people' can have advantages



A National Jobs Program isn't just about physical infrastructure. I'm guessing thousands of un-under-employed IT workers in the US could use work. Nationalize Microsoft ffs!

[JoePhilly]

100. The program you referred to primarily targeted

"unskilled labor". That term actually has a meaning.

The positions created by the program you referenced, were for the most part not career oriented positions. And they were par time.\

None of that is my fault. That program was, what it was. Primarily targeted to what's called "unskilled labor". And thus the part of my response that was (as I actually stated) factitious.

You, meanwhile, ignore my main question ... how would a national jobs program of a similar nature to the one you referenced, make the jobs described in the article any less valuable?

[leftstreet]

104. 'WPA-style'

Hello....I meant the model

Any Jobs Program would need to fit the modern workforce

Even Obama campaigned on a 'green' jobs program *cough*

[JoePhilly]

109. Ahh ... just the model ... which parts?

Which part of today's "modern workforce" has the required skills for "green jobs" already?

Or are you proposing a "skills program", which is something the WPA didn't include in its "model".

And for the 3rd time ... what aspect of funding for green jobs makes the jobs referenced in the article less valuable?

The President spoke about jobs at an Amazon warehouse on Tuesday. He spoke about the need for more funding for green jobs, at the end of June, during his speech on Climate Change.

Yet you and some others apparently think it makes sense to pit the various types of jobs against each other.

I'm still trying to understand why.

[leftstreet]

111. The Not-For-Profit part

A WPA- style jobs program would not benefit CEOs and shareholders


I have no idea - and never did - what the hell Obama meant when he said "Green Jobs."
Ask him

[roody]

49. It is both.

[Octafish]

9. Amazon destroyed my favorite bookstores.

Lots of jobs gone.

As for Amazon, it is a money maker for Bezos and Wall Street.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Right.

[PoliticAverse]

27. Amazon actually lost money last quarter...

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/25/technology/amazon-earnings/index.html

[Octafish]

34. True. But their stock price is still over $300/share.

I wonder how many shares people who used to work at now-defunct bookstores own?

[Brickbat]

10. Nothing like giving a jobs speech at a union buster. What's next? Wal-Mart?

[seabeckind]

14. While I think it's good to celebrate the creation of any job...

I think there are some factors we should include:

1. In that warehouse, just how many products carry the "Made in USA" label? A single factory making plastic toys that employs 300 people will generate 10 times as many subsidiary jobs not only in the immediate area but all over. And no one can tell me the price of a $3 toy will change that much by making it here. Or a $15 shirt.

2. Living wage includes the cost of transportation.

3. Smaller businesses are killing their own markets. The idea of profit over service isn't isolated in the big retail outlets, it's everywhere.

4. All we hear about when we hear jobs is retail...never the source of the products. I know this item is similar to item 1 above but this one involves perception and attitude toward the worth of the activity.

5. The only things I see in the job figures is how many, not the quality of those jobs.

6. If we're going to talk about g(n)opers obstructionism, perhaps we need more publicity. How about a couple of charts that hang on the wall during the daily press conference that show the status of bills in congress. And make sure it's pointed out EVERY DAY! If the media won't do it on their own, shove their nose in it.

7. How about leveling the playing field between states? Why do we have conditions that reward companies for making states compete to reach the bottom? How about penalties for relocation?

.... feel free to add

[bhikkhu]

18. Warehouses and distribution centers don't fit in downtowns very well

That's kind of how it works in all sorts of businesses. The main need is for lots of space, reasonable costs, and access for large truck traffic.

On the other hand, if you go to any big city and look at what's 10 miles outside of downtown, you'll usually find what you might call dense suburbia, packed with houses, shopping and service businesses, and packed with people. I grew up 10 miles outside of a downtown core myself, and the traffic and crowds were terrible!

[KamaAina]

125. They fit better in industrial parks

most cities, Chattanooga presumably among them, have these at the edge of town, convenient to all forms of transportation: highway, rail, sometimes air, and yes, local bus.

[grammiepammie]

23. Jobs tour

Is there not anything that this President does or says that is not put down by someone on DU. Enough is enough. I am through.

[onehandle]

26. I rarely 'put this President down.'

But this was a make brine from lemons moment.

[totodeinhere]

50. Is the criticism of companies like Amazon legitimate or not? n/t

[HangOnKids]

72. Your 40 posts were AMAZING!

Thanks for all the memories Pam!

[Skeeter Barnes]

28. Low paying temp jobs with huge turnover, lousy conditions isn't exactly the backdrop I'd want.

Unpaid training, unpaid time being searched multiple times a day, constant production harassment. When they fire you, your final check is paid at minimum wage.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor

I used to deliver freight to their Lebanon, TN warehouses and I've seen how they treat people. Workers being paid low wages for 10 - 12 hours of constant rush work, with no employee rights or job security, is not progress.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

42. "searched multiple times a day" --They didn't even do that to the coal miners.

[MrNJ]

86. not defending Amazon

but lumps of coal are less valuable than cell phones and SLR lenses.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

92. The dignity of workers is more valuable than cell phones and SLR lenses. If Amazon can't figure out

a less intrusive way, they shouldn't be in business.

[Xithras]

29. One of the new Amazon warehouses in California..

...is located in a small town that doesn't have any sort of mass transit system of any type, and that lacks a local population with the skills to completely man the warehouse anyway. Most of the workers will come in from surrounding towns on the freeway and highways, making a car 100% required.

But then again, owning a car is 100% required in the Central Valley anyway. I don't think there's a single city in the Valley with a decent transit system (maybe Sacramento, but even it has coverage issues).

[Boom Sound 416]

31. Commute or drive to city from LI?

Commute from Hicksville, Long Island to NYC

Distance - 32 miles to Empire State Building

LIRR monthly pass 276
Metrocard monthly 112
Total monthly commute $388
Totally annual (11months) $4,268

Driving based on 25 mpg
Call it 3 gallons of gas r/t per day @ $4.00/ gal
Midtown tunnel 12 dollars per day
Monthly parking 300 (give or take)
Per month driving
Gas - 240
Tolls - 240
Park - 300
Leaving out insurance for now
Total 980/month
Annual total (11 months) 10,780


Wow. I actually didn't realize how big the difference would be.

If you parked on the street (which is possible but difficult and took the qns boro bridge and avoided tolls you would just pay gas at roughly 250/month
So a little under 3,000 annually

[theHandpuppet]

35. Same thing in my town

No public transportation but jobs available at the big warehouses miles out of town. There would be plenty of people to fill those jobs if they could only get there, but many of my neighbors have unreliable transportation, if any at all.

[reformist2]

36. Amazon is a great example of how modernization/technology is killing jobs.

And the free-market lovers claim that the free market will magically "create" new jobs... funny thing is, they never can tell you what kinds of jobs they will be, much less what kinds of subjects students should study.

[HardTimes99]

38. It's the students for whom I feel the deepest sadness, many of whom were sold a

bill of goods by a sociopathic society and culture that has left them in the modern-day equivalent of debt peonage and with few avenues to prosperity and middle-class sability.

Obama was warned over and over in the spring and summer of 2009 by economists like Stiglitz and Krugman (when he had the opportunity to effect a new New Deal) that the ARRA was too small by several orders of magnitude and its benefits skewed to shoring up the already comfortable. Instead, Obama chose to listen to the advice of the DLCers with whom he and Rahm had staffed his administration.

So we are now condemned to at least another three years of stagflation. Woo-hoo. GDP growth in Q2 2013 was a whopping 1.7% annually. Pathetic (even if marginally better than Q1's jaw-droppingly anemic 1.1%).

[reformist2]

45. I know. To be honest, I don't know what I'd tell a student trying to figure out a good career path.

Maybe health care, but that's not for everybody.

[HardTimes99]

46. I think it may be a myth that health care will provide stable career prospects. I remember reading

a few years back that even newly-graduated RNs were now having trouble finding work. Can't remember where I read that or what the context was, but I remember being struck at the time by the thought that even health care was no longer the sure thing it once was.

[reformist2]

53. Wow. I can believe it. I feel like it's the Titanic, once people hear about an empty lifeboat, they

mob it, and before you know it that lifeboat is full.

[TheKentuckian]

117. A lot of it is like every skill "shortage", the market is glutted and so requirements are ratchet up

the point where RNs one in desperate demand are now under-qualified and they are looking for BSNs and nurse practitioners. I'm hearing that RNs fresh out of school are not being considered and experienced LPNs are pretty much the new CNAs.

Education is becoming a scam to increase requirements, reduce the existing pay scale under the cover of new lucrative opportunities, and education milling.

Everything gets turned to farce.

[reformist2]

129. So true. I'm hearing that in the Big Pharma labs, they're kicking out anyone who doesn't have a PhD.

A masters isn't good enough anymore!

Eventually we're going to have people getting PhD's in cheeseburger preparation. And they'll get $10 an hour and like it!

[TheKentuckian]

138. Yup, a PhD in engineering required to run the fry station and a Masters to mop is the goal.

[fujiyama]

127. I'd tell them to go into automation, robotics and engineering.

My own background is in the latter, and while it was a pain going through the degree, I'm glad my parents did subtly push me toward engineering. I'm thinking of going back either to a CC or get a masters in one of the areas above.

People on this site always bring up outsourcing and H1Bs, and yes those are problematic, but the demand is there for certain skill sets. I'm honestly having a tough time organizing voice mails and emails from recruiters (several a day and that's just by keeping my resume public on career sites) so my perspective of this economy is completely different from many. I realize though that part of my advantage is being young and not really tied down so I've been flexible, but even otherwise, I can tell things have picked up everywhere in my line of work.

I'm not posting to be an ass hole or to brag - more so just to let people with children close to college level that there definitely is a demand for engineers, especially computer and electrical, but from what I've seen and heard there's a demand for mechanical, aerospace, and chemical (especially if it's in petroleum engineering, and related fields).

[Safetykitten]

51. Very true.

[DonCoquixote]

114. Not always

Ebooks allow authors to sell and self publish directly without waiting for some Exec at random House to "discover them." You cannot jury say "modernization always bad." The problem is that for paperbacks, which do make the mom and pops bread and butter, the PUBLISHERS are focusing on the big boxes instead of keeping Mom and Pop alive.

It's just like when the record companies claim that the internet was stealing from artists, all the while hiding the fact that out of every record sold, the artist got a few cents at best, outright Debt at worst, even if they went Platinum.

[duffyduff]

121. Problem is, you don't OWN an "eBook." It is just another scam by the elite

to make sure the public never owns anything and that they become nothing but renters.

This was always the wet dream of libertarians WRT libraries. Eventually everything would operate on user fees.

I don't want to read any more crap about how great downloads are when you don't own a damned thing you download.

[WaitWut]

37. Some of you folks think this is permanent...

Congrats Tennessee, but don't complain when you get what you asked for.

http://www.statesman.com/news/business/amazon-to-close-texas-distribution-center-amid-sal/nRXS4/

[Safetykitten]

39. Obama visits a plantation. Like what he sees.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

40. Marie Antoinette said it best for the hungry who did not have bread: "Just let them eat cake."

[reformist2]

41. And in 5 years even those warehouse jobs will be gone because of e-books...

[roody]

54. There was an expose of this type

of job in Mother Jones. Not a pleasant job.
Link. http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor

[WinkyDink]

55. Not to mention the absolutely soul-crushing environment and zero mental stimulation.

[ecstatic]

56. Every job is not going to be the right fit for every person.

That's just life. Amazon might not work for people without a car. Which jobs are available for those who don't have transportation? And if there are none, then what's the next step?

[Safetykitten]

58. New Democratic slogan at convention. "That's Just Life"...

Can't wait to see the graphics on the big screen at the podium.

[ecstatic]

60. Do you drive an American car? Do you shop online?

Do you buy only American made goods? How many of us are willing to look at the role we play in the jobs situation? Everything that's happening is a result of decisions made by us.

[Safetykitten]

62. And what you just posted has what to do with Amazon paying a living wage, or having a more

stable work environment?

[ecstatic]

66. The OP mentioned that Amazon's warehouse in TN was not on a busline

My simple response (which you decided to get all sarcastic about) was that Amazon obviously won't be able to employ everybody in every situation. Clearly we see things differently.

[Safetykitten]

67. They locate on these items. Tax giveaways, More tax giveaways and a pliable workforce.

The fact that you can't understand that people work in these nightmares because they have no choice or no options, is not you r concern. It's all about you and your shopping choices.

[ecstatic]

93. Kind of hard to discuss anything when you keep switching subjects/ moving goalposts. nt

[totodeinhere]

68. Very true. But the system has us between a rock and a hard place. On the one

hand, yes we should buy American to help Americans workers keep jobs. And we should patronize local businesses rather than the Walmarts of this world. But so many of us have been put in a position where we have little choice but to shop at Walmart. If I am a single mother on food stamps struggling to feed my family am I going to pay 20% more at a local market or am I shopping at Walmart where my meager food stamp benefit can go farther? I think we all know the answer to that and I challenge anyone to find a rational reason to criticize that mother who happens to be in that situation. It's called survival and people will do what they have to to survive.

[LordGlenconner]

70. So what's your solution?

[HangOnKids]

76. How cute!

I'm sure someone will get back to you with that solution shortly Glen.

[LordGlenconner]

83. I shall look forward to it.

[totodeinhere]

61. Everybody needs to read this article - I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave

It's a rather long read, but the investigative reporter who wrote this article exposed shocking details about what it's like to have a job at a large shipping warehouse.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor?page=1

[Safetykitten]

63. Good post.

[Skeeter Barnes]

94. Shows how out of touch the 1% in DC are.

They point to these shit paying temp jobs where you are subjected to constant production harassment and threats as progress.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. A lot of policy wonks reside in places like New York where you don't even need to own a car.

[SunSeeker]

80. Good point. DC is very much like that as well.

I lived in DC for a little while and at first I was going to get a car, but then someone showed me the subway system. Halleluja! Fast, clean and efficient...and it took you anywhere you wanted to go in DC. I never got the car. Not only did I not need it bur it would have been a liability with parking a huge issue.

Meanwhile, outside the beltway, the rest of America struggles to get around.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

99. Lots of people take the train to work every day....

Makes sense when you see this:

[SunSeeker]

105. Yeah, I wish I could take a train. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

115. I wish there was rail service from Vegas to Los Angeles....

Ain't gonna happen as long as Republicans control the House.

They claimed Harry wanted to corrupt wholesome families visiting Disneyland into the pit of hell that is Vegas with all the gambling and prostitutes.

[NYC_SKP]

71. I blame Obama for decades of unsustainable urban planning.

And Amazon's decision to site this facility where they did.

What was Obama thinking???

[Jakes Progress]

77. Flag on the play.

You wouldn't blame Obama for anything. Ignoring that he is class-blind on this issue just plays to the right wing complaints that liberals don't really care about the poor.

Whatever Obama's personal beliefs, he has surrounded himself with tone-deaf liberal haters and corporate whores as advisors. Any astute political advisor would have known about this issue. It shows a penchant for photo-op grandstanding. It shows a willingness to believe what corporate flakes tell you. It shows a near blindness to the plight of working people. He might as well be asked how much a loaf of bread costs.

[treestar]

98. Yeah, agree this issue has little or nothing to do with President Obama

He simply wants more jobs. America's love affair with the automobile is another matter.

[elleng]

73. You say you are not a President Obama basher,

but go on to say 'celebrating the centralization of low paying jobs in giant warehouses out of reach of the vast majority of Americans is 'Bush'-league.'

[Jakes Progress]

78. So telling the truth is Obama bashing?

You really want to take that line?

[Safetykitten]

79. You did not get the memo. Truth= Obama bashing.

[elleng]

87. President Obama did not create the current facts of life, I've said,

vis a vis business, he did not invent Amazon, Walmart, etc. He is trying to promote and encourage situations where more jobs are created.

Suggesting what he is doing is 'Bush-league' is offensive.

[Jakes Progress]

136. Neither did bush. It is bush league to flak for them.

It is offensive to watch a Democratic president bask in the corporate glow.

[elleng]

82. President Obama did not create the current facts of life

vis a vis business, he did not invent Amazon, Walmart, etc. He is trying to promote and encourage situations where more jobs are created.

Suggesting what he is doing is 'Bush-league' is offensive, imo.

[Jakes Progress]

124. He is happy to live with them though.

Bush didn't invent Amazon and Walmart. He enabled them. This administration is a good friend to corporate and banking interests.

It is bush league to flak for the devil.

[4_TN_TITANS]

74. Not to mention, I've read

that those warehouses are so expansive, people can spend an entire break just walking to the bathroom or to get a drink.

[Safetykitten]

75. Yes they do. FACT.

[eggplant]

81. Perhaps amazon can provide shuttle service between local mass-transit and the work-site.

Problem solved. Reduces tardiness (everyone gets there at the same time), and the same shuttle can return the ones getting off-shift back to mass-transit. It's a deductible expense, and maybe even would be good for a carpooling tax credit.

[Safetykitten]

85. They can't even air-condition some of their joints....

[eggplant]

88. yes, I know.

I'm not an apologist for them. I was suggesting a win-win solution to the stated problem.

[Safetykitten]

89. In a better world, this would be great. But it's Amazon. They suck.

[onehandle]

91. Amazon lost money last quarter. Not going to happen. nt

[Skeeter Barnes]

95. It's because they are investing in huge new buildings all over the country right now.

Not because they are in bad shape financially. They've got the money. Plenty of it.

[A Simple Game]

84. Chattanooga may not want all of the truck traffic.

It's possible the infrastructure couldn't handle it or be easily modified to handle it. If transportation to and from the facility is a major problem then someone should petition the local bus company. Amazon probably should have done this in their environmental impact study. Or if all else fails the workers could start their own short line bus route to the facility. Sounds like it could be a money maker.

Sadly solutions often come after the problem. This should have been anticipated by Amazon, the city, or the local bus company.

On edit: eliminated a misplaced word

[winter is coming]

90. Amazing that Amazon didn't make arrangements with Chattanooga before they'd

finished building the warehouse.

[MineralMan]

102. Chattanooga actively campaigned for this facility, and

offered a bunch of perks to Amazon. In fact, the location is near an Interstate Highway, so it shouldn't be a big deal, really.

[A Simple Game]

112. It appears from the OP that the facility if far enough out that the

bus system doesn't serve it. I was commenting, not clearly enough, that if the facility had been closer to the city's core it may have caused traffic problems with what I would assume would be at least dozens if not hundreds of additional trucks daily.

It seems if there is sufficient need that the bus company would run busses out there at least for the shift changes.

[treestar]

97. This has been so since the automobile was invented

It's a national obsession to have an individual car.

We do have public transportation, but it's not that good. Because we seem to love cars in great numbers.

A big factory being there might motivate the local bus company to start a route, though.

Or the workers could start up car pools.

[MineralMan]

101. Hmm...Chattanooga does have a public transit system.

If there are enough jobs there and people who need transportation to them, it's not so difficult to add that warehouse to the transit routes.

Currently, the Chattanooga transit system extends out to near the Amazon location. There is a Dial-a-Ride service that passes by the facility, and I imagine they'll add a bus route to that area if demand warrants. There is also a nearby Volkswagen plant with a big parking lot near where Amazon is.

We'll see.

[liberal_at_heart]

103. and what are the wages and benefits? Everytime I hear the phrase job creation from either party

my first question is, what are the wages? Is there a right to organize? What are the benefits? Just because Amazon is creating new jobs doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[Skeeter Barnes]

110. Shit pay, fire you at the drop of a hat temp jobs.

They are not even Amazon employees.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor

[KamaAina]

106. "feel-good, clean air-generating pursuit for endangered species-loving people who eat wheat grass"

[KamaAina]

107. There's federal funding for reverse-direction transportation to jobs

or at least there used to be; for all I know, Agent Orange sequestered it.

Chattanooga needs to get hold of some.

Or maybe Amazon could follow Google's lead and shuttle its employees from town in sleek, unmarked buses.

[bluestate10]

118. The problem can be solved with imagination.

Most regions of the country that I visit have nearly empty regional transit buses circulating at nearly all hours of the day. Why not use some of those buses to pick up workers at satellite locations and transport them to jobs and back to the satellite points? Workers can take normal bus routes to the satellite points. Companies and cities and towns would benefit such a system. The system is used in some countries in the world and it does enable workers that have no other form of transportation, those workers in turn provide economic stimulus to their home communities.

[RedCappedBandit]

126. I don't shop at Amazon for the same reasons I don't shop at Walmart.

[Cali_Democrat]

128. I'm sure most people on this thread have shopped online at sites like Amazon

You guys are the ultimate hypocrites and you don't even know it. Just keep pounding away on your keyboard as you lift your nose in the air with the smug feeling of superiority.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[Cha]

131. Hey Cali.. I shop at amazon.. amazon actually gives more to Dems..

I remember reading this last year and felt good about shopping there. I was pleasanly surprised!

I live on an Island and there aren't things always available that I would like.. amazon has been good to me. Even in upstate New York after I didn't have a car anymore.. I shopped at amazon.com.

2012 PAC Contribution Data
Contributions from this PAC to federal candidates (list recipients)

(52% to Democrats, 48% to Republicans) $179,500
Contributions to this PAC from individual donors of $200 or more ( list donors) $0

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00360354



http://theobamadiary.com/2013/07/31/rise-and-shine-540/



http://theobamadiary.com/2013/07/30/chattanooga/

[freshwest]

132. Love the hug!

[Cha]

133. The "hug" is precious, fresh~

[Cali_Democrat]

137. Thanks for the info

[freshwest]

134. Yup, folks do. Not all of us live in bucoli communes with everything growing in our backyard.

Not that we wouldn't want that. Manufactured products don't grow on trees yet.

Can't discuss solutions with folks who refuse to read the statistics on the programs PBO laid out there. Removing the tax loopholes, a reduction for those who pay their fair share, and a huge increase on those who don't and ship jobs overseas.

That is the same as JFK, cut the corporate tax rate but get rid of the loopholes which takes in more money..

That revenue will fund more infrastructure jobs and education. As well as keep social spending up.

The Sequester is in the second stage, no more social cuts, now it's the military that takes the hit.

That's the big story, not this. Anything to get the public's mind off what Obama has said he's going to do, and the GOP obstruction.

The facts on the town aren't even straight here. Oh, well.

[onpatrol98]

130. Anyone lacking a car???

But, this place will be filled with people who do own a car, or for people who carpool, etc. Perhaps the next job opportunity will be located closer to the middle of the city. No job is going to work for everyone who is employed.

Not to mention, what about people who live away from the city altogether AND don't have a car, but can't get to the mass transit locations. We will need different solutions for different people. And, sometimes, people have to make lifestyle changes.

I had a friend who moved from the rural south to a place that had a better transit system. She loves it. But, no one place can meet the needs of everyone. And, every state in the US needs jobs. There are cost of living differences from state to state. There will be people in TN who are very appreciative of these jobs.

The surest way to encourage a better environment for the labor force is more people working. Companies work harder to keep employees they're in danger of losing to other companies. However, it's still an employer's market in many cities.

Perhaps a program that assists people in relocating to areas that have decent jobs, but only for people who don't mind relocating.

But, I think a company opening its doors to additional employees is good for whoever happens to get a job after needing one for a long time. So, I don't have a problem with it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

135. There's another Amazon fulfillment center in Charleston, Tenn, about 35 miles north of Chattanooga..

... and about 40 miles south of me. The 'City' of Charleston, located in Bradley County, is 1 square mile, with a population of 658 people as of the 2011 census. There is a larger unincorporated area than there is City Limits. Needless to say, there is NO public transportation available anywhere near there, or in between the 40 miles that separate them from where I live. It's just a series of small towns inside the larger surrounding Counties, yet many people out where I live manage to get there every day. They also make it to the new Volkswagen Plant in Chattanooga.

Several get together and carpool, splitting the gas expenses (and the driving, for the others who own cars, too). People who don't own cars, or have cars but don't trust them to put the wear and tear on them, manage to get there, thanks to these carpools. I know this as a fact because my nephew used to work there, but he didn't have a vehicle. I used to drive him, and 3 other people, to work every day, then go pick them up at night. On days I didn't need my vehicle I would just let him take it and drive the others. They were able to work, finally save enough money, and two of them went in together on a used car and were then able to drive themselves.

Public transportation is a rarity in this state, found only in the largest cities like Chattanooga, Knoxville, Nashville and Memphis. I'm sure there may be a few other counties, but I couldn't name them without doing a lot more research. Even in the larger cities, the public transportation is limited in their routes. It's definitley not like when I lived in Homestead, Fla, where I could catch a Metro Bus, take it to a Metro-Rail station, take the Metro-Rail to the Tri-Rail station, and take the Tri-Rail all the way to West Palm Beach. Hell, it's not even like Atlanta's MARTA buses and rail system!

People who have spent their lives in the "Big Cities" could probably never fathom what it's like living in small towns or, as in my case, 'out in the sticks'... 15 miles, one way, to the nearest grocery store in 3 directions and over 20 miles in the 4th direction.

Ghost