General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGreenwald is now recycling his breaking revelations.
His latest:
XKeyscore: NSA tool collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
XKeyscore presentation from 2008 read in full
http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jul/31/nsa-xkeyscore-program-full-presentation
Slate reported this on July 11:
By Ryan Gallagher
Posted Thursday, July 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM
Over the weekend, O Globo published a handful of new top-secret NSA PowerPoint slides. One of the slides disclosed the existence of an NSA program called XKEYSCORE, which appears to involve the mass storage of international Internet metadataincluding information about emails, phone calls, log-ins, and other user activitythat can later be mined, or queried, by an NSA analyst from a computer.
<...>
Notably, another of the XKEYSCORE slides suggests that the NSA can monitor a persons Google Maps activityand use this as a basis to follow up any activity deemed suspicious with further investigation. The slide notes: My target uses Google maps to scope target locationscan I use this information to determine his email address? What about the Web searchesdo any look suspicious? It adds: XKEYSCORE extracts and databases these events, including all web-based searches, which can be retrospectively queried.
Its unclear how up to date the XKEYSCORE PowerPoints are and whether this program is still active. Either way, the slides are highly revealing. It is possible that they date from pre-2011, before Google made the decision to give all users the ability to encrypt Google Maps sessions using the SSL protocol. Without SSL encryption turned on, which shows in Internet browsers as HTTPS unlike unencrypted HTTP, the information you are sending over the Internet can be intercepted easily by anyone who has access to the data as it is being communicated over a network.
It seems likely that prior to Google adopting SSL for its maps sessions, the NSA was taking advantage of this by mining data about users Google activity directly from U.S. and international networks. Information published by the Guardian last month showed that the NSA appears to be collecting billions of what it calls digital network intelligence records from Internet infrastructure across the world. Separately, the Associated Press recently reported that the agency is operating a large surveillance program that snatches data as it passes through the fiber optic cables that make up the Internets backbone.
- more -
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/07/11/xkeyscore_program_may_have_allowed_nsa_to_spy_on_google_maps_searches.html
Greenwald's evidence for his latest claim is a 2008 report
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023361622
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)I may not agree with him on everything, but he has done this country a great service. Thanks Glenn!
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)I love it.
I guess he feels it didn't get enough attention the first time. Forget all the previous analyses of the information when he first reported it.
Do over! Breaking...again.
Hilarious.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Cheers!
EOTE
(13,409 posts)How many times a day does your ego need to be stroked? When can we expect you to stop recycling the same bullshit over and over? Breaking...again? I do have to say that your schtick stopped being hilarious many years ago.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)into mass deflection.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)Or is the deflection only when people call you out on your bullshit?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)EOTE
(13,409 posts)The mass amounts of deflection come in when the masses inform you how transparent your attempts to excuse any awful offense of this administration simply because of its party affiliation. You think that you're doing the country a big service by supporting every horrible thing a president does so long as there's a D attached to the name, but it's quite the opposite. At least it's obvious that the great bulk here don't buy what you're shoveling.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The links to NSA documents and articles about them are useful, of course. It's good of her to keep this important issue boiling along. And as you can see from the responses, it's not like her opinion holds much sway, and she definitely doesn't sway anyone to change their minds with her transparent promotion of an ideological-groupthink line.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Not true. Only the headline is garbage.
The links to NSA documents and articles about them are useful, of course. It's good of her to keep this important issue boiling along. And as you can see from the responses, it's not like her opinion holds much sway, and she definitely doesn't sway anyone to change their minds with her transparent promotion of an ideological-groupthink line."
...the headline is spot on, and I expect such a comment from those who can't deal with criticism of Greenwald or Snowden. That "groupthink" defensiveness is impenetrable.
U.S. Outlines N.S.A.s Culling of Data for All Domestic Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380161
Statement of Senator Patrick Leahy, oversight hearing on surveillance programs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380208
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)It's not that your "criticisms" have absolutely to do with whether what they leaked or claim is true or not, but are simply attempts to establish how they are baddd baddd men and hope people will therefore not evaluate their claims objectively.
It's us. We can't handle the criticism.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)You really do have an irony impairment. I thought it was an act before.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)because if you aren't, I will
Octafish
(55,745 posts)The private -- accused of leaking to WikiLeaks -- endures conditions many would call cruel, and possibly torture
BY GLENN GREENWALD
Salon.com, WEDNESDAY, DEC 15, 2010
Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Mannings detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.
Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a Maximum Custody Detainee, the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day for seven straight months and counting he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; hes barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, hes being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole, but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.
In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at Americas Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brigs medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.
CONTINUED...
http://www.salon.com/2010/12/15/manning_3/
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)As opposed to recycling hack attacks.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Where is DU hiding the Elizabeth Warren avatar
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)be sure to put a bracket in front and back of link:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1265|]
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)I've tried a couple of times and no luck but I will prevail sooner or later.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)I tried the brackets in all sorts ways and no luck. Sorry to the OP for my off topic posts.
Logical
(22,457 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)You're slipping, I expected this sooner
So. Fucking. Transparent.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)I love watching the sputtering coming from the Greenwald acolytes when you post a thread.
Sid
ProSense
(116,464 posts)OMG...you!!! LOL! Good one!!!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Another of your ideological soul mates meets his destiny
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=305721
Keep traveling that path, Sid...
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)you seem to identify with trolls so much?
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)right?
Sid
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)rare. You on the other hand are trending.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Love ya Sid!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)which includes reporting of 2010 and 2012 documents.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)It's about the rolling smilie face and some meaningless drivel.
Cheers!
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"It is not about honest debate with her! It's about the rolling smilie face and some meaningless drivel. "
...you have a lot of nerve accusing someone of "meaningless drivel": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023087676
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Linkasaurus Rex and the Dreaded Blue Linkies!
Cheers!
tridim
(45,358 posts)Holy jebus listen to what you're saying.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)you have Nothing but attacks toward the poster of this story.
That shows to me you are embarassed for supporting Mr. Green's Recycling Bin, and can't find a graceful way to just duck out of the conversation, so you pick pick pick, jab jab jab.
phffft.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)It is jab,jab,pick,jab,pick. Preferably done while Survivor's "Eye of the Tiger" is playing at volume level 11.
Cheers!
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"And yet again, you didn't read the article which includes reporting of 2010 and 2012 documents."
...which is based on 2007 and 2008 information, and he dedicates a couple of lines to vague references to a 2010 "guide describing the training" and "'plug-ins' in a December 2012 document"
Still, what does that have to do with the fact that the revelation is recycled?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)all the rest are unique to the article thus references to a subsequent guide and plug-ins are not vague at all.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The point of the article is to talk about the same thing that was discussed in 2008. The fact that new documents were created referring to the same program isn't much of a revelation.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)For a Pro it seems like a sluggish mistake IMVHO.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)I give you a gold star for effort though. You are like the little train that could.
Marr
(20,317 posts)At some point, this really ought to earn a ban.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)I don't think posters "earn a ban" because other people post drivel.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)There are a number of behaviors that ought to "earn a ban."
Be careful what you ask for, etc...
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)sgtbenobo
(327 posts).... ProSense strikes a free for blowdom! A quick prayer for Brother ProSense, uh-hmm, May the Lord love Brother ProSense and keep him far away from us. amen.
Carry on.
tridim
(45,358 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Again, Greenwald is talking about "technological capability." He's speculating and has no evidence that any laws are being ignored. The program targets are foreign.
Breaking: Anything is technically possible...again.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Queen Cut-n-paste complains about recycling."
Also, is there a way to post news or any media report without "Cut-n-paste"?
Please let me know, thanks.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)
on a post in this thread but declined to vote due to the fact I need to do more research on the subject. That said, if anyone in their right mind feels that the internet was ever a safe place to express one's feelings they are living in a dream world, that includes Mr. Greenwald and friends.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)This
"Greenwald's evidence for his latest claim is a 2008 report"
is not completely accurate. Seems to be propaganda in hopes that posters will not read it and will just take your word for it.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Appears you didn't read Greenwald's comment at the link.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The information you added is inaccurate with respect to both. You know that."
...your opinion.
U.S. Outlines N.S.A.s Culling of Data for All Domestic Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380161
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)The Corrector
(22 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Wait. Why didn't AP say this was "recycled"?"
Maybe AP didn't see the previous reports or maybe it's a slow news day.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)But, maybe he's afraid of leaving Brazil.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)matt819
(10,749 posts)We get it. You don't like Glenn Greenwald, and there's an anti-Glenn Greenwald group here. Can you just go off and play by yourselves and leave the rest of us alone? No, I'm not denying your first amendment rights. I just want you to exercise them somewhere else.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)It isn't just metadata. Far from it.
Credibility blown!
"We had three weeks of "it's just metadata" we shouldn't have had. It isn't just metadata. Far from it."
...it's still "metadata" for the domestic program. As I said, the program revealed focuses on foreign targets.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380161
it isn't.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
And the hits keep coming. So why is the Utah data center needed again? Content.
Yeah, called that one back in very early June. That building is several years of "content" storage.
Now it isn't quite as bad as I feared. The next bit might even be called reasonable, if we'd talked about that up front. But your guys didn't so they can rub salt.
But it is too little, too late. Erase the database, start the process CORRECTLY which means full disclosure of the legal justifications, and start over.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.
...yes it is. As I said, Greenwald is talking about "technological capability." He's speculating and has no evidence that any laws are being ignored. The program targets are foreign.
disidoro01
(302 posts)You bang on Greenwald, Snowden and supports about this "no proof" BS and then talk about safeguards, warrants and policies because NSA says so. US Gov't would never break the law? Please show proof. Meanwhile I can dig up posts of dead middle-eastern babies, killed by our drones and soldiers if you would like? no evidence laws are being ignored? Like Clapper testifying?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
Now, deal with it.
disidoro01
(302 posts)I was tempted to call you what I really think of you. Do you think the associated slides are fabricated? I understand what it is like to find out the Easter Bunny doesn't exist but you just got to deal with it.
So, you are good with all of this data being collected, how has this made us safer?
Are you ok with trading off privacy/rights/ freedoms for this safety?
How has this made us safer and please, you don't like beliefs, you like facts. Give me the facts.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)disidoro01
(302 posts)It's the only way to understand where you are coming from and will probably prevent me from making ad hominem attack thinking you are just trolling for attention.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)disidoro01
(302 posts)And it's interesting that you won't post why you been so nasty towards those against NSA/government overreach, including Snowden and Greenwald. It's very telling that you won't address why you feel what is being done is good nor post how this has made us safer.
I can tell you it hasn't and I can tell you it's taken money better spent on those who need it. I can also assure you that Booz allan hamilton does not need our tax dollars.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Go read your previous posts.
You don't have the courage of your convictions do you?
No proof either that we are better of because of what the government is doing.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)you want to start a discussion and expect answers, avoid statements like this:
"Don't be Obtuse"
"I was tempted to call you what I really think of you."
"I understand what it is like to find out the Easter Bunny doesn't exist but you just got to deal with it."
"It's the only way to understand where you are coming from and will probably prevent me from making ad hominem attack thinking you are just trolling for attention."
"And it's interesting that you won't post why you been so nasty towards those against NSA/government overreach, including Snowden and Greenwald."
don't have a rational counterpoint do you?
You realize the implications of what has been revealed and still will be revealed so you will do anything you can to discredit the source.
Or are you one of the folks listening to the sex calls coming from overseas? lol Don't want it to stop because you won't know what to do with your time?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)we got you nailed, it isn't working anymore is it?
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Are you all rude?
if your spin were true, the "fill in the blank" reason you thought the person was a "furriner" wouldn't be needed -- because if limited the way you say the info returned would only pertain to "furriners."
Remember, it's always ONLY been about metadata. That one worked soooo well and kinda paints out your general credibility.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)Has 10 minutes gone by already without a new "I hate Greenwald / Manning / Assange / Snowden" post?
RL
ProSense
(116,464 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
ProSense
(116,464 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL