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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:46 AM Jul 2013

Greenwald is now recycling his breaking revelations.

His latest:

XKeyscore: NSA tool collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

XKeyscore presentation from 2008 – read in full
http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jul/31/nsa-xkeyscore-program-full-presentation

Slate reported this on July 11:

NSA Even Spied on Google Maps Searches, Documents Suggest

By Ryan Gallagher

Posted Thursday, July 11, 2013, at 3:46 PM

Over the weekend, O Globo published a handful of new top-secret NSA PowerPoint slides. One of the slides disclosed the existence of an NSA program called “XKEYSCORE,” which appears to involve the mass storage of international Internet metadata—including information about emails, phone calls, log-ins, and other user activity—that can later be mined, or “queried,” by an NSA analyst from a computer.

<...>

Notably, another of the XKEYSCORE slides suggests that the NSA can monitor a person’s Google Maps activity—and use this as a basis to follow up any activity deemed suspicious with further investigation. The slide notes: “My target uses Google maps to scope target locations—can I use this information to determine his email address? What about the Web searches—do any look suspicious?” It adds: “XKEYSCORE extracts and databases these events, including all web-based searches, which can be retrospectively queried.”

It’s unclear how up to date the XKEYSCORE PowerPoints are and whether this program is still active. Either way, the slides are highly revealing. It is possible that they date from pre-2011, before Google made the decision to give all users the ability to encrypt Google Maps sessions using the SSL protocol. Without SSL encryption turned on, which shows in Internet browsers as HTTPS unlike unencrypted HTTP, the information you are sending over the Internet can be intercepted easily by anyone who has access to the data as it is being communicated over a network.

It seems likely that prior to Google adopting SSL for its maps sessions, the NSA was taking advantage of this by mining data about users’ Google activity directly from U.S. and international networks. Information published by the Guardian last month showed that the NSA appears to be collecting billions of what it calls “digital network intelligence” records from Internet infrastructure across the world. Separately, the Associated Press recently reported that the agency is operating a large surveillance program that “snatches data as it passes through the fiber optic cables that make up the Internet’s backbone.”

- more -

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/07/11/xkeyscore_program_may_have_allowed_nsa_to_spy_on_google_maps_searches.html


Greenwald's evidence for his latest claim is a 2008 report
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023361622

108 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Greenwald is now recycling his breaking revelations. (Original Post) ProSense Jul 2013 OP
I commend Greenwald for his excellent coverage of the NSA spy state NoOneMan Jul 2013 #1
He's not the only one. hobbit709 Jul 2013 #2
LOL! City Lights Jul 2013 #3
LOLOL! Segami Jul 2013 #5
Yeah, breaking...again. ProSense Jul 2013 #7
Pot meet Kettle! Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #13
So, when will you be getting enough attention? EOTE Jul 2013 #17
Oh, I expect this sub-thread to grow ProSense Jul 2013 #24
Well, we have to talk about something when the OP is complete garbage. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #49
Your opinion is irrelevant. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #54
That wouldn't be mass deflection, would it? EOTE Jul 2013 #65
Not unless you believe the masses agree with me. Do you? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #72
It's quite clear that they don't. EOTE Aug 2013 #108
Not true. Only the headline is garbage. JackRiddler Jul 2013 #59
No, ProSense Jul 2013 #61
*sigh* Yes, yes, we can't handle criticism of Snowden or Greenwald. That's the problem. NuclearDem Jul 2013 #69
+100000 Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #60
Do Over? hootinholler Jul 2013 #21
are you calling him an attention whore dlwickham Jul 2013 #51
Hahahahahahahahah! Apart from DU, here's one that doesn't get enough attention... Octafish Jul 2013 #11
Great post! nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #106
Bwahahahaha NuclearDem Jul 2013 #12
+1 Well said Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #14
Beat me to it. Except he's recycling things that matter. JackRiddler Jul 2013 #19
Well done, and in fewer than 25 characters! WorseBeforeBetter Jul 2013 #29
Hee,Hee bahrbearian Jul 2013 #47
O/T May I ask UglyGreed Jul 2013 #52
Paste this link to your signature line bahrbearian Jul 2013 #55
Thanks for the help UglyGreed Jul 2013 #66
[ brackets ] ? bahrbearian Jul 2013 #71
Yes UglyGreed Jul 2013 #73
DUzy! +1000 n-t Logical Jul 2013 #81
exactly! RetroLounge Jul 2013 #86
! Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #105
Over an hour and a half hootinholler Jul 2013 #4
Sorry, I didn't get a chance to post this earlier. ProSense Jul 2013 #8
DU rec... SidDithers Jul 2013 #6
+1 JoePhilly Jul 2013 #10
Yeah, ProSense Jul 2013 #18
Speaking of rancid recs whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #39
Your own rec history is pretty transparent too, sparky... SidDithers Jul 2013 #40
Why is it whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #41
Yup, no banned trolls in your rec list... SidDithers Jul 2013 #42
Maybe, but whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #43
Nice transparency page too, btw... SidDithers Jul 2013 #44
Haha... whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #45
And yet again, you didn't read the article... Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #9
It is not about honest debate with her! Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #15
Please, ProSense Jul 2013 #22
If you ever form a band, I think it should be called Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #27
Because referencing your writing is bad bad BAD!!!!11, eh Vinnie? tridim Jul 2013 #30
Linkasaurus Rex is perfect. n-t Logical Jul 2013 #82
talk about meaningless drivel... Whisp Jul 2013 #32
You have it all wrong! Vinnie From Indy Jul 2013 #36
I read the article, ProSense Jul 2013 #16
The article contains only two images from the 2008 slide presentation... Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #37
The fact that a new presentation has been created isn't much of a revelation. jeff47 Jul 2013 #48
Good catch Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #23
LOL! ProSense Jul 2013 #25
*Hugs* Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #35
Caught lying again. Marr Jul 2013 #46
"At some point, this really ought to earn a ban." ProSense Jul 2013 #56
Aside from the utter hypocrisy of your post Bobbie Jo Jul 2013 #67
Thank you for directing attention to important issues. JackRiddler Jul 2013 #20
Once again.... sgtbenobo Jul 2013 #28
Who is "Us"? tridim Jul 2013 #33
Who are you? ProSense Jul 2013 #34
Yeah, good to know these training documents exists, and the best part ProSense Jul 2013 #31
Queen Cut-n-paste complains about recycling. OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #26
Well, I don't pretend my posts are breaking news. ProSense Jul 2013 #38
I was asked to be a juror UglyGreed Jul 2013 #50
He's not the only one recycling. Safetykitten Jul 2013 #53
It appears as though you didn't read the first article you posted. NCTraveler Jul 2013 #57
Actually, that's a link to a different claim. ProSense Jul 2013 #58
The information you added is inaccurate with respect to both. You know that. nt. NCTraveler Jul 2013 #63
No, that's ProSense Jul 2013 #64
Like 15mins and another Prosense post...I've never used the trash so much Katashi_itto Jul 2013 #62
Associated Press: "Leaked Docs Give New Insight Into NSA's Searches" The Corrector Jul 2013 #68
LOL! Welcome to DU ProSense Jul 2013 #70
Greenwald should go to Russia and interview Snowden. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #74
K & R Scurrilous Jul 2013 #75
Please, just give it up matt819 Jul 2013 #76
LOL! ProSense Jul 2013 #78
We had three weeks of "it's just metadata" we shouldn't have had. Pholus Jul 2013 #77
Well, ProSense Jul 2013 #79
Well, Pholus Jul 2013 #80
Actually, ProSense Jul 2013 #83
Don't be Obtuse disidoro01 Jul 2013 #84
Step back from the lame insult and realize that Greenwald was the one who wrote this: ProSense Jul 2013 #85
I didn't think it was lame disidoro01 Jul 2013 #88
It's lame. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #89
Please answer the questions i've posed disidoro01 Jul 2013 #93
Insults were your way of kicking off a discussion? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #95
No, it's your way disidoro01 Jul 2013 #96
WTF? ProSense Jul 2013 #97
lol disidoro01 Jul 2013 #98
Next time ProSense Jul 2013 #99
you disidoro01 Jul 2013 #100
"you don't have a rational counterpoint do you?" Yes, don't be rude if you want to chat. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #102
lol disidoro01 Jul 2013 #103
"we got you nailed" There is more than one of you? ProSense Jul 2013 #104
And, Pholus Aug 2013 #107
More puke from the usual crowd RetroLounge Jul 2013 #87
Get over it. Greenwald and Snowden are not above criticism. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #90
And still more puke RetroLounge Jul 2013 #91
Then knock yourself out. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #92
and still more puke RetroLounge Jul 2013 #94
Good. It can't be reported often enough. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #101
 

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
1. I commend Greenwald for his excellent coverage of the NSA spy state
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:48 AM
Jul 2013

I may not agree with him on everything, but he has done this country a great service. Thanks Glenn!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
7. Yeah, breaking...again.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:57 AM
Jul 2013

I love it.

I guess he feels it didn't get enough attention the first time. Forget all the previous analyses of the information when he first reported it.

Do over! Breaking...again.

Hilarious.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
17. So, when will you be getting enough attention?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

How many times a day does your ego need to be stroked? When can we expect you to stop recycling the same bullshit over and over? Breaking...again? I do have to say that your schtick stopped being hilarious many years ago.

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
65. That wouldn't be mass deflection, would it?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:54 PM
Jul 2013

Or is the deflection only when people call you out on your bullshit?

EOTE

(13,409 posts)
108. It's quite clear that they don't.
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 07:43 AM
Aug 2013

The mass amounts of deflection come in when the masses inform you how transparent your attempts to excuse any awful offense of this administration simply because of its party affiliation. You think that you're doing the country a big service by supporting every horrible thing a president does so long as there's a D attached to the name, but it's quite the opposite. At least it's obvious that the great bulk here don't buy what you're shoveling.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
59. Not true. Only the headline is garbage.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:41 PM
Jul 2013

The links to NSA documents and articles about them are useful, of course. It's good of her to keep this important issue boiling along. And as you can see from the responses, it's not like her opinion holds much sway, and she definitely doesn't sway anyone to change their minds with her transparent promotion of an ideological-groupthink line.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
61. No,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:48 PM
Jul 2013

"Not true. Only the headline is garbage.

The links to NSA documents and articles about them are useful, of course. It's good of her to keep this important issue boiling along. And as you can see from the responses, it's not like her opinion holds much sway, and she definitely doesn't sway anyone to change their minds with her transparent promotion of an ideological-groupthink line."

...the headline is spot on, and I expect such a comment from those who can't deal with criticism of Greenwald or Snowden. That "groupthink" defensiveness is impenetrable.

U.S. Outlines N.S.A.’s Culling of Data for All Domestic Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380161

Statement of Senator Patrick Leahy, oversight hearing on surveillance programs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380208

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
69. *sigh* Yes, yes, we can't handle criticism of Snowden or Greenwald. That's the problem.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:56 PM
Jul 2013

It's not that your "criticisms" have absolutely to do with whether what they leaked or claim is true or not, but are simply attempts to establish how they are baddd baddd men and hope people will therefore not evaluate their claims objectively.

It's us. We can't handle the criticism.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
11. Hahahahahahahahah! Apart from DU, here's one that doesn't get enough attention...
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:06 AM
Jul 2013
The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning’s detention

The private -- accused of leaking to WikiLeaks -- endures conditions many would call cruel, and possibly torture

BY GLENN GREENWALD
Salon.com, WEDNESDAY, DEC 15, 2010

Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months — and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait — under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning’s detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.

Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a “Maximum Custody Detainee,” the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.

From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day — for seven straight months and counting — he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he’s barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he’s being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not “like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole,” but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.

In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America’s Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig’s medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.

CONTINUED...

http://www.salon.com/2010/12/15/manning_3/

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
6. DU rec...
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:57 AM
Jul 2013

I love watching the sputtering coming from the Greenwald acolytes when you post a thread.

Sid

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
15. It is not about honest debate with her!
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:13 AM
Jul 2013

It's about the rolling smilie face and some meaningless drivel.

Cheers!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
22. Please,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:18 AM
Jul 2013

"It is not about honest debate with her! It's about the rolling smilie face and some meaningless drivel. "

...you have a lot of nerve accusing someone of "meaningless drivel": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023087676

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
27. If you ever form a band, I think it should be called
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:25 AM
Jul 2013

Linkasaurus Rex and the Dreaded Blue Linkies!

Cheers!

tridim

(45,358 posts)
30. Because referencing your writing is bad bad BAD!!!!11, eh Vinnie?
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:34 AM
Jul 2013

Holy jebus listen to what you're saying.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
32. talk about meaningless drivel...
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jul 2013

you have Nothing but attacks toward the poster of this story.

That shows to me you are embarassed for supporting Mr. Green's Recycling Bin, and can't find a graceful way to just duck out of the conversation, so you pick pick pick, jab jab jab.

phffft.

Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
36. You have it all wrong!
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:45 AM
Jul 2013

It is jab,jab,pick,jab,pick. Preferably done while Survivor's "Eye of the Tiger" is playing at volume level 11.

Cheers!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
16. I read the article,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:14 AM
Jul 2013

"And yet again, you didn't read the article which includes reporting of 2010 and 2012 documents."

...which is based on 2007 and 2008 information, and he dedicates a couple of lines to vague references to a 2010 "guide describing the training" and "'plug-ins' in a December 2012 document"

Still, what does that have to do with the fact that the revelation is recycled?

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
37. The article contains only two images from the 2008 slide presentation...
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:49 AM
Jul 2013

all the rest are unique to the article thus references to a subsequent guide and plug-ins are not vague at all.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
48. The fact that a new presentation has been created isn't much of a revelation.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:28 PM
Jul 2013

The point of the article is to talk about the same thing that was discussed in 2008. The fact that new documents were created referring to the same program isn't much of a revelation.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
56. "At some point, this really ought to earn a ban."
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:15 PM
Jul 2013

I don't think posters "earn a ban" because other people post drivel.



Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
67. Aside from the utter hypocrisy of your post
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:37 PM
Jul 2013

There are a number of behaviors that ought to "earn a ban."

Be careful what you ask for, etc...

 

sgtbenobo

(327 posts)
28. Once again....
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:28 AM
Jul 2013

.... ProSense strikes a free for blowdom! A quick prayer for Brother ProSense, uh-hmm, May the Lord love Brother ProSense and keep him far away from us. amen.


Carry on.


ProSense

(116,464 posts)
31. Yeah, good to know these training documents exists, and the best part
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:35 AM
Jul 2013
Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.

Again, Greenwald is talking about "technological capability." He's speculating and has no evidence that any laws are being ignored. The program targets are foreign.

Breaking: Anything is technically possible...again.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
38. Well, I don't pretend my posts are breaking news.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:58 AM
Jul 2013

"Queen Cut-n-paste complains about recycling."

Also, is there a way to post news or any media report without "Cut-n-paste"?

Please let me know, thanks.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
50. I was asked to be a juror
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:55 PM
Jul 2013

Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)

on a post in this thread but declined to vote due to the fact I need to do more research on the subject. That said, if anyone in their right mind feels that the internet was ever a safe place to express one's feelings they are living in a dream world, that includes Mr. Greenwald and friends.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
57. It appears as though you didn't read the first article you posted.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:36 PM
Jul 2013

This

"Greenwald's evidence for his latest claim is a 2008 report"

is not completely accurate. Seems to be propaganda in hopes that posters will not read it and will just take your word for it.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
58. Actually, that's a link to a different claim.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:39 PM
Jul 2013

Appears you didn't read Greenwald's comment at the link.





ProSense

(116,464 posts)
64. No, that's
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:51 PM
Jul 2013

"The information you added is inaccurate with respect to both. You know that."

...your opinion.

In contrast to the domestic-call tracking program, the example cited in the XKeyscore presentation — which said it had generated intelligence that resulted in the capture of more than 300 terrorists — appeared to be focused on overseas activity.


U.S. Outlines N.S.A.’s Culling of Data for All Domestic Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380161

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
70. LOL! Welcome to DU
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 03:01 PM
Jul 2013

"Wait. Why didn't AP say this was "recycled"?"

Maybe AP didn't see the previous reports or maybe it's a slow news day.




matt819

(10,749 posts)
76. Please, just give it up
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:11 PM
Jul 2013

We get it. You don't like Glenn Greenwald, and there's an anti-Glenn Greenwald group here. Can you just go off and play by yourselves and leave the rest of us alone? No, I'm not denying your first amendment rights. I just want you to exercise them somewhere else.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
77. We had three weeks of "it's just metadata" we shouldn't have had.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:13 PM
Jul 2013

It isn't just metadata. Far from it.

Credibility blown!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
79. Well,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:17 PM
Jul 2013

"We had three weeks of "it's just metadata" we shouldn't have had. It isn't just metadata. Far from it."

...it's still "metadata" for the domestic program. As I said, the program revealed focuses on foreign targets.

In contrast to the domestic-call tracking program, the example cited in the XKeyscore presentation — which said it had generated intelligence that resulted in the capture of more than 300 terrorists — appeared to be focused on overseas activity.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023380161

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
80. Well,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:35 PM
Jul 2013

it isn't.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.


And the hits keep coming. So why is the Utah data center needed again? Content.

The XKeyscore system is continuously collecting so much internet data that it can be stored only for short periods of time. Content remains on the system for only three to five days, while metadata is stored for 30 days. One document explains: "At some sites, the amount of data we receive per day (20+ terabytes) can only be stored for as little as 24 hours."


Yeah, called that one back in very early June. That building is several years of "content" storage.

Now it isn't quite as bad as I feared. The next bit might even be called reasonable, if we'd talked about that up front. But your guys didn't so they can rub salt.

To solve this problem, the NSA has created a multi-tiered system that allows analysts to store "interesting" content in other databases, such as one named Pinwale which can store material for up to five years.


But it is too little, too late. Erase the database, start the process CORRECTLY which means full disclosure of the legal justifications, and start over.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
83. Actually,
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:46 PM
Jul 2013
Well, it isn't.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.

...yes it is. As I said, Greenwald is talking about "technological capability." He's speculating and has no evidence that any laws are being ignored. The program targets are foreign.

disidoro01

(302 posts)
84. Don't be Obtuse
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:55 PM
Jul 2013

You bang on Greenwald, Snowden and supports about this "no proof" BS and then talk about safeguards, warrants and policies because NSA says so. US Gov't would never break the law? Please show proof. Meanwhile I can dig up posts of dead middle-eastern babies, killed by our drones and soldiers if you would like? no evidence laws are being ignored? Like Clapper testifying?

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
85. Step back from the lame insult and realize that Greenwald was the one who wrote this:
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:01 PM
Jul 2013
Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

Now, deal with it.

disidoro01

(302 posts)
88. I didn't think it was lame
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:12 PM
Jul 2013

I was tempted to call you what I really think of you. Do you think the associated slides are fabricated? I understand what it is like to find out the Easter Bunny doesn't exist but you just got to deal with it.
So, you are good with all of this data being collected, how has this made us safer?
Are you ok with trading off privacy/rights/ freedoms for this safety?
How has this made us safer and please, you don't like beliefs, you like facts. Give me the facts.

disidoro01

(302 posts)
93. Please answer the questions i've posed
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:18 PM
Jul 2013

It's the only way to understand where you are coming from and will probably prevent me from making ad hominem attack thinking you are just trolling for attention.

disidoro01

(302 posts)
96. No, it's your way
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:29 PM
Jul 2013

And it's interesting that you won't post why you been so nasty towards those against NSA/government overreach, including Snowden and Greenwald. It's very telling that you won't address why you feel what is being done is good nor post how this has made us safer.
I can tell you it hasn't and I can tell you it's taken money better spent on those who need it. I can also assure you that Booz allan hamilton does not need our tax dollars.

disidoro01

(302 posts)
98. lol
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:45 PM
Jul 2013

You don't have the courage of your convictions do you?
No proof either that we are better of because of what the government is doing.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
99. Next time
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:52 PM
Jul 2013

you want to start a discussion and expect answers, avoid statements like this:

"Don't be Obtuse"

"I was tempted to call you what I really think of you."

"I understand what it is like to find out the Easter Bunny doesn't exist but you just got to deal with it."

"It's the only way to understand where you are coming from and will probably prevent me from making ad hominem attack thinking you are just trolling for attention."

"And it's interesting that you won't post why you been so nasty towards those against NSA/government overreach, including Snowden and Greenwald."

disidoro01

(302 posts)
100. you
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:58 PM
Jul 2013

don't have a rational counterpoint do you?
You realize the implications of what has been revealed and still will be revealed so you will do anything you can to discredit the source.
Or are you one of the folks listening to the sex calls coming from overseas? lol Don't want it to stop because you won't know what to do with your time?

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
107. And,
Thu Aug 1, 2013, 06:42 AM
Aug 2013

if your spin were true, the "fill in the blank" reason you thought the person was a "furriner" wouldn't be needed -- because if limited the way you say the info returned would only pertain to "furriners."

Remember, it's always ONLY been about metadata. That one worked soooo well and kinda paints out your general credibility.

RetroLounge

(37,250 posts)
87. More puke from the usual crowd
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:07 PM
Jul 2013

Has 10 minutes gone by already without a new "I hate Greenwald / Manning / Assange / Snowden" post?



RL

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