Two Amish Teens Hurt In Shooting.

[JohnnyRingo]

It's sad that some people think they can kill someone for simple trespassing, as if their property is a sovereign country, but I know more than one person who believes that as well. Apparently, the shooters were shocked they were being arrested.

The Sheriff felt he had to tell the community that deadly force has specific requirements:

JEFFERSON OHIO - The two Amish teenagers wounded in a shooting Saturday night in Windsor Township are expected to survive, according to the Ashtabula County Sheriff's Office.

The father and son accused of shooting the teens - Kenneth C. Jameson, 61, and Michael C. Jameson, 30, respectively - were arraigned late Monday in Western County Court on four counts each of felonious assault. Bond was set at $250,000 for each of them.

Sheriff William R. Johnson confirmed Tuesday that Daniel Burkholder, 18, of Geauga County, and a 17-year-old female from Ashtabula County were still at the Cleveland MetroHealth ICU Unit after being admitted following the shootings.

According to reports, Burkholder and the girl were among 10 passengers, plus the driver, in an Amish transport van that had gone to the Jameson residence at 6044 Huntley Road to retrieve a radio from a barn. Johnson said the Amish teens were using a storage facility at the residence to store musical equipment, with the owner's consent.

Read the rest here:

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/590975/2-Amish-teens-hurt-in-shooting.html?nav=5021

This is just 10 miles North of me along the Eastern border and South of Ashtabula.

[bunnies]

1. They opened fire on a van for being on property...

that the owners gave them permission to be on?! It wasnt even the shooters property?! FFS!!!

[Warpy]

3. Yes, there is a hell of a lot more to this story

Amish teenagers are just as rebellious as any other teenagers and expected to be so. Something tells me they owed Johnson money for drugs or maybe Johnson's property had been robbed more than once or any of a thousand shady things.

[bunnies]

9. Yeah. Something is definitely not right with this.

TWO people opening fire on a van just for being there? I guess we'll just have to wait for the rest to come out.

[yellowcanine]

27. Yes, two people opening fire on a van just for being there is just as "definitely not right" as if

it were just one. Is that what you meant? Because surely you aren't suggesting that just because two people did it it is somehow more justified?

[bunnies]

29. Thats not what I meant at all.

One person doing it would be completely fucked up as well. I just meant that it would be easier for a defense to reason that the one guy was batshit or something. With two guys, they werent both batshit, theres got to be something more to it. Thats all.

[yellowcanine]

30. Hmm. Recent history suggests otherwise however.

Sometimes one person is "batshit" and influences another person who is only batfart, perhaps.
And although photos can be misleading neither one looks like the sharpest tool in the box so it is quite possible that they pooled their ignorance and it multiplied.

[bunnies]

35. oh boy.

look at those two. You make an excellent point. Father and son, right? They look like they belong at a tea-bagger rally. That says a lot.

[olddots]

48. those goobers look like poster children for armageddon .

[sabrina 1]

44. I don't think that is true. Gangs of people are often involved in shootings that are completely

unjustified. Where I live, Amish and Farming country, it is far more plausible that the owner of the property did give permission for storage to the Amish community. People allow others to use their property all the time here.

I find it perfectly believable that the Father was upset about this as it may have brought traffic he didn't want close enough to his property that he viewed is an invasion of his privacy, or a threat to him in some way.

Nothing justifies the shooting of people to settle a dispute. In other countries, amazingly, people manage to settle disputes without the use of firearms. Maybe we should start studying other cultures before any more people die.

[bunnies]

45. No question the shooting was unjustified.

I think its just hard for me to process what these two did. I mean, to shoot someone just for being on a property?! How in the world could anyone think that was a reasonable thing to do? I think I underestimate the amount of low-IQ psychotics in this country. I have to stop thinking ones motivation for doing something like this *must* be something more than simply being an ignorant, hateful person.

[Warpy]

36. Thank you.

This just doesn't pass the BS detector.

[yellowcanine]

23. "Something tells me they owed Johnson money for drugs or maybe...." Well that's a leap based on...

what? Maybe we ought to just wait for the investigation rather than talk trash about people we don't even know.

Many Amish travel in hired vehicles. Maybe the shooter didn't recognize the vehicle or thought they did but they had it wrong?
In any case, if you are going to shoot into a vehicle you had better have a justifiable reason for doing so and we will just have to see, won't we?

[Warpy]

34. You do agree that there is probably more to this story

My examples were possibilities. So were yours.

So what's your problem?

Unless the Jamesons are in jail every other week for shooting at strangers (in which case they'd likely be off the street forever), something else is obviously going on.

[yellowcanine]

40. There is always more to the story. But why make up stuff about the shooting victims?

"Something else is not obviously going on" if by that you mean the shooting victims obviously must have done something wrong because people never shoot at strangers for the first time. What kind of logic is that anyway? What's my problem? That you automatically assume that the people in the van must have been doing something wrong, that they could not have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I gave a logical reason for my speculation - that Amish often hire vehicles so maybe the shooters did not recognize the vehicle. Your logic consisted of equating the age of the Amish youth with rebellion with drug deals or robbery. That may be a possibility but it is not very good logic.

[JohnnyRingo]

39. I think you're right.

I have friends who drive those "Winky Vans" here. It's not always the same van that picks them up and takes them shopping. It's likely the property owner didn't know who was in the van.

However, being a van you'd think the Jamesons could put 2 and 2 together and figure it was fellow cult members (sorry). Some here just want to attack the Jamesons for owning guns, but hunting is a major part of their lifestyle, and guns are a staple in any Amish household by necessity.

Violence is very rare in the community, but always bizarre when it does occur. It was also near here that the members of one church were invading the homes of another and shearing their beards at gunpoint.

[yellowcanine]

41. "Fellow cult members"??? That's offensive. And I don't see anyone here attacking the Jamesons for

owning guns. What I do see is people objecting to them shooting indiscriminately into a van apparently just because it was on their property. Things are pretty messed up if objecting to indiscriminately shooting into a van is somehow anti-gun.

You seem to have some facts mixed up. Where is it mentioned that the Jamesons are Amish? And this is the first time I have read that guns were involved in the beard cutting attacks. Do you have a citation for that?

[upaloopa]

28. You are willing to justify shooting people

for being mischievous? No life was threatened. I find your logic just like that of Zimmerman. Gunner twisted thinking!

[Warpy]

33. Shame on you for entertaining that insulting thought.

BUH bye.

[opiate69]

6. It was the shooters property...

The father and son accused of shooting the teens - Kenneth C. Jameson, 61, and Michael C. Jameson, 30, respectively - were arraigned late Monday in Western County Court on four counts each of felonious assault. Bond was set at $250,000 for each of them…

According to reports, Burkholder and the girl were among 10 passengers, plus the driver, in an Amish transport van that had gone to the Jameson residence at 6044 Huntley Road to retrieve a radio from a barn.

Which actually makes it even a little more bizarre to me.. same guys that gave them permission to use the storage didn't recognize them and started shooting? Weird...
Edit: Unless the Jamesons are renters and the actual owner is someone else... fuck, not enough info in this article.. it's making my head hurt trying to figure out all the variables.

[bunnies]

8. I thought that maybe he the Jamesons were renters...

who maybe didnt know the owners had given permission. If the shooter IS the owner that gave permission... that makes no sense at all. hmm. Somethings missing here.

[opiate69]

10. heh..I thought of that as soon as I posted, and was editing as you were posting this..

Definitely need more coffee..

[bunnies]

13. Well...

even IF they're renters, opening fire on a van seems a bit over the top. Imagine if the landlord sent someone in to check the water heater! Its crazy either way!

[opiate69]

17. Funny you should mention water heaters....

As ours started leaking yesterday, and our landlady scheduled someone to come out and replace it, right about now actually (10 am)...

[bunnies]

18. No way!

What are the chances. Thats too funny.

[opiate69]

22. lol true story!

I'm waiting for my wife to text me and let me know how it's going lol... I do love a good coincidence

[HappyMe]

15. If they are renting, I would think that

the people that own the property would mention that the barn is being rented out for storage purposes.

The Jamesons had no business just blasting away, regardless if they own or rent.

[bunnies]

16. Totally agree.

Its off-the-charts crazy either way. Those two need to go to jail for a LONG time.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

11. Just the fact that they started firing indiscriminately at a vehicle.

Christ, it could have just been some poor schlub who was lost.

[opiate69]

14. Oh, I know... I wasn't trying to defend the yokels...

Was just trying to correct what I mistakenly thought was a mistake in bunnies' post. These twits are dangerous buffoons who need to feel the full weight of the American Justice System brought to bear upon them.

Edit because my phone's auto-correct pisses me off.

[yellowcanine]

24. Amish often hire vehicles to travel in - maybe the shooters did not recognize the vehicle.

All the more reason they should not have been shooting into it, of course.

[JohnnyRingo]

32. A little perspective...

This was what we call a "Winky Van" around here. I have a couple friends who used to drive for the Amish. They pick them up and take them to WalMart and other places. I'm reasonably certain the property owner didn't know who was in the van, they just thought they were protecting their property. Unfortunately, they may stupidly have not known they can't kill trespassers.

Amish kids around here have boom boxes and psychedelic light shows they put in their buggies. Many parents don't approve and they have to hide it when not in use. Apparently, they had the van stop to pick up their equipment. That doesn't mean the shooters knew who they were.

[Warpy]

38. The shooters weren't protecting their own property

The kids had a right to be where they were on someone else's property.

This doesn't pass the sniff test the way it is written.

[JohnnyRingo]

42. The kids had a right to be on the property?

I don't see how you surmise that was a factor. Sure, they had permission to keep the boom box in the barn, but it's likely the Jameson's didn't know who was in that van. You know the Amish don't own vans, right? The fleet of "Winky Vans" that are employed to pick them up and take them shopping are dispatched by need, not familiarity. Still, the Jamesons should have put two and two together when they saw a van pull in and investigated further.

The only problem here is the assumption held by the Jamesons- and many not even in the Amish Community- who think they can shoot at trespassers. I know more than one "Yankee" as the Amish call us, who foolishly believe the same thing.

That's probably why the Ashtabula County sheriff felt he had to explain that using deadly force requires specific legal requirements. Even your own neighbors may believe the same as the Jamesons. Keep that in mind if you ever have cause to stroll onto their property after dark looking for a missing pet or something.

BTW: Very few Amish rent. Their property is divided up among offspring who farm the paternal family's vast acreage as a matter of survival. You can drive for miles down a road and see nothing but Miller or Yoder homes here in Amish country.

[Warpy]

43. The property was owned by Johnson

and the teens were retrieving a radio from among items they were storing on his property.

The shooters were named Jameson, not Johnson.

[rdharma]

2. There's probably been a lot of "cow tippings" in the area.

So the two gun huggers were understandably "on edge"!

I hope these two trigger happy idiots get some time in jail to contemplate the stupidity of their actions.

At least Ohio has a law against blasting people for property crimes.

[tumtum]

5. It's my opinion that these two asswipes should be charged with attempted murder.

Shooting someone to protect material property should never be acceptable not tolerated.
Unless someone trespassing on your property shows clear intent to harm you or your family, you should just call the police and let them take care of it.

[JohnnyRingo]

37. You wouldn't believe how many people I know...

..who think they can shoot someone for something like stealing from a tool shed. I was in an argument about a decade ago with a co-worker who swore it was her right to kill anyone on her property if she thought they were stealing something

As I mentioned, some people think their property is a sovereign nation and what goes on there in none of the neighbor's or the govt's business. Libertarians gone wild, and that describes the Amish to a T. They feel they answer only to their church and God.

[HappyMe]

7. Good grief.

Get shot even though you have permission to be there.

[LWolf]

12. Because the Amish pose immediate deadly threat. nt

[tumtum]

19. Haven't you seen Breaking Amish?

Those kids pose a clear and present danger to society.

[LWolf]

20. I saw 20 minutes of it...

all I could take, lol. Nothing there that couldn't be solved by injecting 20 IQ points.

[tumtum]

21. LOL.

My wife, bless her heart, loves that show, of course, she also loves Keeping up with the Kardashians, Mob Wives, Basketball Wifes, hell, anything with Wives in it, T.I. and Tiny.
When she turns those shows on, I grab a book and flop on the love seat and tune her and the TV out.

[yellowcanine]

26. I agree, the producers of crap shows like that would benefit by an IQ enhancement.

Or are you talking about the script writers? Because the actors are working off of a script, as with any reality show. It is TV fiction, no matter how hard the producers might work to make us think otherwise.

[LWolf]

46. Start at the top. nt

[enough]

25. Things seem to be moving toward the point where, in some people's minds,

the right to own guns equals the right to use them whenever you feel like it

[Paladin]

31. "Moving toward the point"? Hell, way too many feel that way, already. (nt)

[LWolf]

47. You know,

this particular thread has been eating at me all day.

The subject matter itself, and the way the subject matter has been treated by some in the thread.

Why?

In 1975 my half-brother was shot and killed by his former room-mate when he showed up to pick up his stuff.

The shooter was convicted of something, and served time. I'll bet his lawyer sounded a lot like some of the DUers on this thread, defending him.

I wasn't close to my half-brother; my father dropped kids behind him like chewing gum wrappers, and his wide-spread brood wasn't raised together.

I hadn't seen or heard from him in 8 years. I didn't know him.

It still hurt; he was a positive memory from my youngest years, and he was a lost connection. His was a life cut short, before he got a chance to live it. He was 19.

I'm glad the 2 teenagers will survive. The shooters? I hope they get the max.