Greenwald: Embassy Closings Looks Like A Conspiracy To Silence NSA Debate

[Purveyor]

Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald on Monday suggested that President Barack Obama had ordered 19 U.S. embassies in the Middle Easy closed not because of a legitimate terror threat, but to silence a debate on recently-revealed details of National Security Agency (NSA) data collection programs.

In a Sunday appearance on Meet the Press, Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) said that the embassies had been temporarily closed after the NSA learned of a terrorist plot.

Speaking to Democracy Now‘s Amy Goodman on Monday, Greenwald observed that the Obama administration may have shuttered the posts just to stop discussion about his reporting.

“Here we are in the midst of one the most intense debates and sustain debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two claiming that it has decimated Al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world,” Greenwald explained. “And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congress — who, remember, are the leading defenders of the NSA at this point — to exploit that terrorist threat, and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.”

MORE...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/05/greenwald-embassy-closings-looks-like-a-conspiracy-to-silence-nsa-debate/

[babylonsister]

1. He thinks it's all about him?

Who knows? All I know is I just saw Peter King (R-NY) on Andrea Mitchell's show saying he's seen some of the threats being lobbed, internationally and perhaps nationally; he refused to elaborate. And Greenwald wasn't mentioned once!

[JackRiddler]

85. "CONSPIRACY" IS A HEADLINE INSERTION

The headline is a hit.

So that all your defenders of the authoritarian surveillance state can once again froth at the mouth about Greenwald instead of admitting that we live in an authoritarian surveillance state.

[babylonsister]

103. Stop being so insulting.

I can draw my own conclusions and I surely don't need you to tell me if they're right or wrong. My opinion is as valid as yours.

From the article and my comment...


Greenwald observed that the Obama administration may have shuttered the posts just to stop discussion about his reporting.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

127. That was Raw Story's characterization,

not Greenwald's. Every quote from Greenwald was about the Obama admin and Rebublicans trying to change the debate by fabricating a threat. He never said "his reporting," his quotes referenced the scandal in general. This would not be the first time Obama has imitated BushCo.

[JackRiddler]

167. Oh stop insulting babylonsister by pointing out

that you read the text and understood it.

She'll think what she likes, damn it!

[cali]

112. well you know I don't defend it and I think Greenwald is spouting nonsense

no, he didn't use the word conspiracy but he said this:

“Here we are in the midst of one the most intense debates and sustain debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two claiming that it has decimated Al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world,” Greenwald explained. “And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congress — who, remember, are the leading defenders of the NSA at this point — to exploit that terrorist threat, and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.”

there are far more compelling arguments about what is going on in Yemen and why.

[Luminous Animal]

153. And Raw Story conviniently leavves off at that... here is the rest from the original interview...

What that has to do with the ongoing controversy about the NSA is completely mystifying. Nobody has ever questioned or disputed that the U.S. government, like all governments around the world, ought to be eavesdropping and monitoring the conversations of people who pose an actual threat to the United States in terms of plotting terrorist attacks. The controversy is over the fact that they are sweeping up billions and billions of emails and telephone calls every single day from people around the world and in the United States who have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. And, if anything, the only thing that that controversy—the warning has to do with the current controversy is that the argument that a lot of analysts have made, very persuasively, is that when you have an agency that collects everything, it actually becomes harder, not easier, to detect actual terrorist plots and to find the actual terrorists. And if this agency really were devoted, if these surveillance programs were really devoted to finding terrorism, they would be much more directed and discriminating. But they’re not. They’re indiscriminate and limitless, and that’s one of the problems.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/5/greenwald_is_us_exaggerating_threat_to

[Admiral Loinpresser]

120. Peter King is lying

pretty much whenever his mouth is open.

[kardonb]

136. Greenwald

he'll say any kind of nonsense just to stay in the news . Cheap grandstanding .

[geek tragedy]

2. Egomaniac conspiracy theorist. nt

[Luminous Animal]

52. Greenwald never claimed what the headline writer at Raw Strory claims.

Do people actually read anything anymore or do they just jerk their knees.

[geek tragedy]

81. Democracy Now headline-

Greenwald: Is U.S. Exaggerating Threat to Embassies to Silence Critics of NSA Domestic Surveillance?

Has the Greenwald fan club at Democracy Now turned on him by writing such an unfair headline?



Greenwald exact quote:

You know, it’s so ludicrous. For eight straight years, literally, Democrats, every time there was a terrorist alert or a terrorist advisory issued by the United States government in the middle of a debate over one of the Bush-Cheney civil liberties abuses, would accuse the United States government and the national security state of exaggerating terrorism threats, of manipulating advisories, of hyping the dangers of al-Qaeda, in order to distract attention away from their abuses and to scare the population into submitting to whatever it is they wanted to do. And so, here we are in the midst of, you know, one of the most intense debates and sustained debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two years claiming that it has decimated al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world. And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congress—who, remember, are the leading defenders of the NSA at this point—to exploit that terrorist threat and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.

That's exactly his implication--Obama's exaggerating the threat in order to justify the NSA program. His use of "suddenly" is meant to imply dishonesty.

Bonus narcissism:

AMY GOODMAN: Glenn, you were supposed to testify last week before Congress. That hearing was canceled because President Obama was meeting with Democrats. But instead, you released a major piece. And I want to talk about that in a second, but will you be testifying before Congress again? And would you come into the United States to testify? Last week it was going to be by Skype.

GLENN GREENWALD: So, the hearing has—I don’t know if it’s been finalized, but I believe it’s been rescheduled for September the 17th or 18th. They definitely intend to reschedule that hearing that was canceled when President Obama suddenly developed a newfound interest in speaking with House Democrats, whom he’s traditionally ignored, which caused the cancellation of that hearing. So, I believe that it is being rescheduled. Whether I would come and physically appear or appear remotely by video depends on a number of factors, including my schedule, the reporting that I’m doing at the time, as well as the—the legal advices that I get from my lawyers. So, we’ll see whether or not that hearing takes place with me remotely there or physically there, but I absolutely intend to testify.

Glenn Greenwald is suggesting Obama scheduled a meeting with House Democrats in order to fuck with Glenn Greenwald.

[JackRiddler]

87. Note they did not use the "C" attack word.

That's the one that guarantees a pavlovian response among you lot.

[geek tragedy]

93. He's alleging a conspiracy between Obama, Graham, Chambliss etc to silence

NSA critics by closing down US embassies around the world based on false pretenses.

Then again, this is the guy who thought Obama was talking to House Democrats in order to inconvenience Glenn Greenwald.

[JackRiddler]

94. It's not a "conspiracy" if it's SOP.

Every time there was a terror alert in the years 2001 to Jan. 2009, guess what, all DU was talking about how convenient it was to the administration. What's the difference today?

[geek tragedy]

104. No, it's still a conspiracy even if it's SOP.

Also, how many terror alerts has the Obama administration issued compared to Bush?

Also, how often did Bush actually close down embassies in response to threats?

Now, it could very well be that Obama is overreacting to the threat, most likely to avoid another Benghazi-type media circus should something happen.

But, Greenwald's claim/insinuation is wholly without substantiation.

[JackRiddler]

162. Did Clapper commit perjury? Yes.

Is the NSA lying when they still claim they aren't collecting phone calls of millions of Americans? Yes. They've redefined it so that it's only "collecting" once they search within it with one of their secret court blanket warrants, but of course they have collected it to store it in the first place.

As a result of revelations of its constitutional violations (that even caused a defunding vote to fall short by just 7 votes in the House) is the NSA in a crisis of sorts, the greatest in its history? Certainly.

So, established: NSA lies. Intelligence agencies lie (and see this as their duty, the fuckers). They are engaged in criminal activity that is being exposed. They have motive to lie at the moment.

Will politicians in Congress and White House do the bobble-head nodding "yes" to any bullshit about "chatter" that comes out of the NSA? Absolutely, after 13 years of terror-war fearmongering and especially after the Benghazi hysteria.

Does the NSA's chatter about potential terror attacks come at a very convenient time? Sure, just like all those times Democrats were ready to say terror warnings were only being issued because Bush's approval ratings were falling.

Does this mean this chatter is bullshit this time? Possibly. Of course it's also possible real people in Yemen et al. actually have a strong motive to blow up Americans, rightly or wrongly. Since of course an illegal global war is waged on their people by the USG. As was already the case back in 2001.

Does any of this require a "conspiracy" between Obama and Graham? Hell no. Those are the civilian bobbleheads. Wait too high up to actually ever possibly follow all the details and know what's the substance of the chatter.

[geek tragedy]

163. the NSA didn't close embassies nt

[JackRiddler]

164. geek tragedy doesn't read before posting.

[geek tragedy]

166. I read how Yemen is ramping up security all over the country.

I've also read that Barack Obama isn't a moron who would evacuate all diplomatic personnel from a country without thinking it over and carefully considering the facts.

[cali]

115. yes, they used the word conspiracy

but that's just what he's claiming- that the actions taken by the U.S. regarding embassy closures in Yemen and other countries in the middle east are about silencing the debate on NSA surveillance and his reporting.

you keep harping on their having used that word when he didn't say it, but so what? It's not an inaccurate headline.

[tblue]

91. Mostly the latter.

Scary how many people jump on the bandwagon (Greenwald is lying) and throw the so many of us under the bus. Hang in there, Luminous Animal. The number standing up for the Constitution is shrinking by the hour.

[darkangel218]

176. LMAO!!!!!

You really belive that???

You'd just like it to be true!!!!

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Remember....it's all about Greenwald....ALL THE TIME

I don't think there's a more self-absorbed dooshbag in the media.

When does his book come out?

Funny how he's trying to cash in on this whole NSA debate.

[JackRiddler]

82. It certainly is to the defenders of authoritarianism.

[Cali_Democrat]

84. Damn paidpropagandiststasiauthoritariancorporatistquislingfascistsockpuppets

[Mojorabbit]

151. Exactly. nt

[msanthrope]

206. Sooooo stealing this...

[emulatorloo]

142. That sounds like something a Nazi would say on a credit card application!

Not everybody has to be a avid fan of Guardian Columnist Glenn Greenwald.

[JackRiddler]

165. Sometimes Godwin was right.

Why are you molesting little children? Stop! Stop!

[emulatorloo]

196. Great! Glad you see how silly you sounded

with "the defenders of authoritarianism" nonsense.

[JackRiddler]

197. Maybe so, but not given the...

longer context of this discussion as it has been running on DU for many weeks now.

Those who come up with excuses for NSA mass domestic spying under Obama, who never would have done so under Bush, are reacting like puppies to their masters.

Those who would come up with excuses for NSA mass domestic spying under any administration because of "terrorism" are patsies, and also doing exactly that... defending authoritarianism.

[Life Long Dem]

4. Let's keep him high on the pedestal like he deserves, because it's all about Greenwald

Go ahead DU, make sure you worship your hero and let him know it's all about Greenwald.

[frylock]

65. go back under your bed lest the alqaedas gets you

[Aerows]

122. They'll drown you in hype- e -potomus. But go to bed and you will be better off. n/t

[leftstreet]

5. Yeah, I thought Obama said al Qaeda was about finished

DURec

[uponit7771]

11. He didn't, diminished != finished

[leftstreet]

13. So...do we go shopping or not?

We need to know these things

[emulatorloo]

143. That's right, misrepresent a quote, get caught, and keep going

like nothing happened. Love it

[leftstreet]

146. You're a little creepy

I posted the shopping question before the Panetta quote

But knock yourself out

[emulatorloo]

158. "Finished" vs "diminished"

Like I say, you got caught misrepresenting, and you keep on going as if nothing happened!

You're not creepy, you are more like the mascot for nu-DU! CONGRATS

[leftynyc]

39. Funny

The clowns on fox news are saying the same thing.

[leftstreet]

41. Is Leon Panetta a 'clown?'

He told us 3 years ago there were maybe 50-100 al Qaeda people left

CIA: At most, 50-100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan

By Evan Harris
Jun 27, 2010 9:29am

In an EXCLUSIVE interview on “This Week,” CIA Director Leon Panetta told host Jake Tapper that there were “at most” only 50-100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

“How many Al Qaeda, do you think, are in Afghanistan?” Tapper asked.

“I think the estimate on the number of Al Qaeda is actually relatively small,” Panetta said. “At most, we’re looking at 50 to 100, maybe less. It’s in that vicinity. There’s no question that the main location of Al Qaeda is in the tribal areas of Pakistan.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/06/cia-at-most-50100-al-qaeda-in-afghanistan/

I thought Obama trusted him

[leftynyc]

49. It seems you

missed something rather important - IN AFGHANISTAN. Try and read a little closer and maybe it'll help you not look so foolish.

[leftstreet]

57. So fucking what? How hard is it to track 50-100 of them?

They could be at your local mall, but 17+ Intel agencies can't track down 50-100 of them in 3 years?

[leftynyc]

72. Are you being purposefully dense?

50-100 IN AFGHNISTAN...IN AFGHANISTAN....IN AFGHANISTAN. Not total. They're all over the fucking place (like the vermin they are...and do spare me the lecture on dehumanizing my enemies...I couldn't possibly care less).

[leftstreet]

78. LOL! Duck and cover! Vermin! All over the place!!

Is this satire?

[leftynyc]

80. You tell me

According to Greenwald, there is no threat, no al queda and it's all about him being the center of the universe. Is that satire? I'm not sure.

[leftstreet]

83. Greenwald seems to know what the threats are n/t

[leftynyc]

96. Oh brother

That tells me all I need to know about you. Ciao.

[tridim]

178. There's no reasoning, he's obviously in love. nt

[leftynyc]

194. I've been there

It never ends well.

[David Krout]

6. the Rawstory title is not a quote

Its the opinion of rawstory. Why not quote Greenwald in the title?

[Luminous Animal]

60. It is so patently dishonest it is hard to believe that the headline writer is literate.

[cali]

119. how is it dishonest? A headline should reflect the story

and it does. Greenwald is positing a conspiracy being carried out to shut down the discussion about NSA surveillance and his reporting.

What he claims is happening is a conspiracy theory. That doesn't mean it's not possible- though I think it's not and that that what's happening is about drones and oil.

[Luminous Animal]

152. He is not saying that the terrorist threat is not real. He is saying that using that threat

in regards to the discussion about massive gathering of data of innocent people is bullshit.

And so, here we are in the midst of, you know, one of the most intense debates and sustained debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two years claiming that it has decimated al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world. And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congress—who, remember, are the leading defenders of the NSA at this point—to exploit that terrorist threat and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.

What that has to do with the ongoing controversy about the NSA is completely mystifying. Nobody has ever questioned or disputed that the U.S. government, like all governments around the world, ought to be eavesdropping and monitoring the conversations of people who pose an actual threat to the United States in terms of plotting terrorist attacks. The controversy is over the fact that they are sweeping up billions and billions of emails and telephone calls every single day from people around the world and in the United States who have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/5/greenwald_is_us_exaggerating_threat_to

[EC]

7. He's really full of himself isn't he? n/t

[randome]

24. He is going to self-destruct before this is over.

I bet we will never hear from Snowden again but Greenwald will go on railing against 'direct access', 'hoovering up the Internet' and conspiracies until the day he dies.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[KittyWampus]

45. He's found his groove!

[Rex]

8. OR

It could actually be a high threat level alert against our embassies. Greenwald might not admit to this, but there are still people out there that want to kill us.

[MineralMan]

9. Greenwald knows bupkis about actual NSA international operations,

and even less about the current situation. He is blowing hard, but that's his style.

Glenn Greenwald is his name; self-promotion is his game.

[frylock]

68. well please do share your wisdom on the subject

[MineralMan]

105. What wisdom? I do not know whether there is a

real threat to those embassies, either. Glenn Greenwald doesn't know. That's the point. He's the one writing nonsense, based on nothing. He has a platform for his pandering. I do not.

Having worked briefly at the NSA, I have some knowledge of how it operates. But that was a very long time ago. I was in the USAF, and turned down a job offer there when my enlistment ran out. Had I stayed, I'd be retired now, but I did not. Had I stayed, I could probably provide better information, but I did not.

Glenn Greenwald's source about the NSA is no longer feeding him information. That is finished, and has nothing to do with international surveillance of terrorist organizations. About that, he knows nothing. And yet, he waxes prophetic. He is a self-serving man, writing about what he does not know.

[tblue]

98. Et tu, MineralMan?

I did not take your for being pro surveillance state. My gosh, we are lost.

[MineralMan]

108. How do you come up with me being pro surveillance state?

I'm not. I am aware that the NSA is heavily involved in international surveillance, though. That is their mission. Whether that is a good thing or a waste of time, I cannot say. I'm too small a wheel in the mechanism to actually know the answer to that question.

Am I concerned about the NSA spying on Americans? Sure, but the extent of that is something that is unclear, really.

[tblue]

192. Oh good, I'm wrong!

I admire so many of your posts. I'm glad you're not defending the indefensible. It's scary as heck to me. Unrestrained surveillance is tyranny waiting to happen.

[joeybee12]

10. He's truly a cynic...and I guess I am too...

I did think the timing was very suspicious.

[geek tragedy]

12. it's impossible to time something so that it's not suspicious. nt

[xiamiam]

14. suspicious timing and I dont believe it any longer

There were 50 known al Qaeda in Afghaistan when we invaded. That's all..50. We've captured or killed number 2 about 100 times according to the msm. I don't believe it. I don't even believe the official story of 911. I do believe that lots of people have profited from these wars and will continue to do so until we get our heads out of the sand.

[Hydra]

18. +1000 ^This

[quinnox]

20. + another 1000, the timing on this stinks

[cali]

35. perhaps you'd believe it if you knew that we've conducted 4 drone strikes

in the last 10 days and we've been drone bombing the shit out of Yemen, killing civilians as well as purported terrorists, including children. It's called blowback and those drone murders are a great recruiting tool.

[Whisp]

44. what so strange about 100 number 2s?

Someone gets to be #2 when the spot is open... and it's a revolving door kind of job.

[Agschmid]

53. Need to have a reason for a conspiracy...

[tblue]

102. Remember the Terror Threat Levels that went away

after the election? Yeah, they did. Does anybody think future admins would not learn how effective that little chart is?

[Recursion]

109. It's "#3", not "#2", and it's because we always call their operations guy "#3"

Good for you on checking out of the fact-based world, though; the 1% love it when people do that.

[stanshch]

116. +1000 on this!

[PowerToThePeople]

126. I agree

Back in the day Alex Jones was not as disliked on DU, we even had a 9/11 area that was not labeled "Conspiracy theory." It is a joke that we have come to accept the story Cheney and his New American Century buddies came up with. Maybe we just put our tail between our legs and said we will never be able to figure out the truth. It would not be the first time...

[zeemike]

128. There are billions of dollars to be made

And they can keep killing the number 2 man as long as there is a flow of money to do it.
Fear can make you a bundle of money...and this whole country have been made into scaredy cats, willing to give up the constitution for safety.

[backscatter712]

129. Bingo. Subtract the ooga-booga words from the headlines, and the truth emerges.

It's not all about Greenwald, it's all about the NSA - they and the rest of the feds are the actual drama queens exaggerating to push their agendas.

Not to say I don't believe the NSA's talk about the explosion of "Al Qaeda chatter", but I don't believe a single word out of that organization anymore. Their true agenda is clear - they want absolute power, and will say anything and do anything to get it.

[woo me with science]

144. [phone] We know this game.

Fool us many times, shame on us.

[leftstreet]

147. +1

[Eleanors38]

160. Bad vaudeville has better timing.

[cascadiance]

15. I wonder if Al Queda or other groups that don't like our policies are planting false flag

... data to try and rope in our intelligence agencies to make a big deal about nothing and make what the NSA is doing look more and more like an attack on our citizens rather than an effective tool against terrorism too. And if the NSA has to "explain" this failure, perhaps the false flag info was planted intentionally in such a way that that for them to explain things, they'd have to expose more of their "secret law" activities that even our congress doesn't know about.

Hard to say how that game might be being played, but there are a lot of possibilities here.

[ljm2002]

16. It's possible...

...but I don't think anyone can say that for certain. Greenwald is not the first person to think it or say it, but it is self-serving and pointless for him to make a statement like this IMO.

Even the Bush administration put out legitimate terror alerts. Oh sure, they were interspersed with obvious political ploys; but one would have to be foolish indeed to think that there are no legitimate terror threats out there.

But the Obama administration has not put out that many alerts. I don't think we need to be blaming them anytime they put out a terror alert. It is reasonable for our government to be aware of terror threats and threat levels. So to this statement by Greenwald, I say: Pffft.

I'm still on board with his reporting on the NSA surveillance though.

[quinnox]

17. Hopefully, not everyone will be cowed by "terror, terror, terror!"

And the debate will continue.

[millennialmax]

19. LOL

[HangOnKids]

22. Did you join DU to post pretty pictures?

[millennialmax]

23. What's it to you? Are you some kind of authority figure on this site? eom

[HangOnKids]

25. LOL! Have A Great Day!

[millennialmax]

26. You too.

[randome]

30. That was uncalled for.

Newer poster posted his/her opinion with a single graphic. And you want to imply he's a troll already?

LOL!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[quinnox]

33. On DU, newbies can sometimes get an "initiation" of sorts

You can't blame duers for being suspicious sometimes. DU is often targeted both by right wing trolls, and by resurrected "zombies" of people who were banned before. It is true, my friend!

[Whisp]

47. I get 'intuitions' too, but I don't think you want to hear about that, quinnox.

...

[quinnox]

77. On the contrary, I always read your posts with great interest

[1StrongBlackMan]

183. But …

Didn’t you get the memo … Established duers are allowed to ask questions of newbie duers.
And, the particular duer he/she responded to is pretty good at sniffing out trolls, and zombies, and such.

[SidDithers]

31. Yup. HOK knows a thing or two about zombies...nt

Sid

[Whisp]

50. brainzzzzz, zombies need brainzzzzzz.

sweet double entendres.

[Kingofalldems]

106. Why don't you come out and say what you mean?

Man up.

[SidDithers]

140. When I get home...

Can't do cut and paste and links easily from my phone.

Sid

[Kingofalldems]

148. Not asking for links.

[SidDithers]

149. Then what are you asking for?...nt

Sid

[Kingofalldems]

150. Come out and say what you mean

instead of hinting around. Didn't ask for any freaking links.

[SidDithers]

154. Dude, the links aren't for you...

They're for the inevitable jury when you or someone else alerts.

Sid

[Number23]

173. Why am I not surprised? NOTHING but personal attacks from damn near Day 1 with that one

And not even good ones.

[millennialmax]

32. Ah, a culture of intimidation to ensure new users only post things accepted by the long-term posters

Gotcha. I've seen it on other message boards.

I'll try to behave and only reply to things with which I agree.

[AverageJoe90]

36. Sorry about that, Max.

TBH, I'm not a big fan of Greenwald, either.

[quinnox]

38. Not really "culture of intimidation", but more like an initiation

and seeing patterns of posting behavior by newbie duers.

Believe it or not, DU is a popular target of right wingers! Also, occasionally after a troll gets banned, they come right back, and try again. It sounds crazy, but it does happen. These buggers can be persistent as all get out.

Please don't hold back with your opinions though, we want to hear what you really think!

And welcome to DU! Enjoy your stay.

[KittyWampus]

56. Should I start characterizing your posting behavior?

[quinnox]

58. whatever floats your boat

[AnotherMcIntosh]

75. Some long-term posters, not "the" long-term posters.

[Eleanors38]

157. First time in years the Gungeon has looked mild, compared to this thread.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

161. I blame gun controllers for the 1994 loss of Congress after having 40 years of having a Democratic

Congress and Democratic Party policies which led to the rise of the American middle-class.

We benefited as a whole when the Democratic Party controlled Congress with Democratic policies.

The Republicans do not share the policies and values. From 1954 through 1994, the Democratic Party controlled Congress.

In 1994, there was a loss of 54 seats. A major loss. Bill Clinton attributed the AWB in his autobiography as being a major factor.

The gun controllers who go into the Gungeon to bait other DUers may be sincerely ignorant of the 1994 losses. Or they may be so arrogant and selfish that they simply don't care. Or they may be Republican sock-puppets. It can be hard to tell. But many of them want to repeat the 1994 election.

I question, if there are gun controllers who are sincere, do they ever raise issues to reduce unnecessary gun violence such as increasing prison time for gun-using criminals or taking action for economic reform? Or are all their anti-gun energies directed towards using emotional language and trying to shut down all views contrary to theirs?

[Eleanors38]

188. I think they view their outlook as a lifestyle choice...

to be selected on a remote. Things are deteriorating way to fast in this country for such low intensity touchpad "activism." They'll stay in a probibitionist/culture war mode for a while longer until they see the bigger picture.

[KittyWampus]

54. where the hell did you get this bogus DU protocol? I've never even seen the poster you claim is

"pretty good at sniffing out trolls".

Furthermore, the Admins have been pretty clear since the beginning that if you think someone is a troll- alert on them.

[quinnox]

66. You have never seen this phenomena?

It happens on a fairly routine basis here on DU. I'm surprised this comes as a surprise to you.

It is not a formal "protocol", but something that just happens occasionally.

Yes, alerting is the standard procedure. But that doesn't mean duers won't or don't question newbies. It happens. Not sure how you could really control it. Maybe you have some suggestions?

[msanthrope]

61. "The particular duer you responded to is pretty good at sniffing out trolls, and zombies, and such."

That might be funniest post you've ever written.

[FSogol]

62. Does something smell again?

[KittyWampus]

134. Well, some of us don't bath every day.

[msanthrope]

174. It's too American. nt

[quinnox]

71. Anytime I can get you to laugh, it pleases me

[SidDithers]

100. It was pretty awesome, wasn't it...nt

Sid

[msanthrope]

107. And I think written utterly without irony. nt

[hrmjustin]

145. I laughed!

[David Krout]

133. When someone disagrees with you, theyll point out the fact that you have few posts

It's supposed to be some kind of logic or somethin.

[Quantess]

198. Newbie hazing is worse here than on most other message boards

though I can understand why, since we have so many trolls. Don't let it get to you.

[Catherina]

29. No shit lol. Thanks n/t

[Dr Hobbitstein]

21. I remember when Fonzie did this... Happy Days was never the same...

[SidDithers]

28. Greenwald. LOL...nt

Sid

[warrprayer]

43. Tom Ridge LOL...

<snip>

"This is a big deal because it's coming from the horse's mouth. Tom Ridge admits in his new book what we've known for a long time and what has been reported years ago.


Former US homeland security chief Tom Ridge charges in a new book that top aides to then-president George W. Bush pressured him to raise the "terror alert" level to sway the November 2004 US election.


Some of Bush's critics had repeatedly questioned whether the administration was using warnings of a possible attack to blunt the political damage from the unpopular Iraq war by shifting the debate to the broader "war on terrorism," which had wide popular appeal.

<snip>

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/tom-ridge-admits-terror-alerts-were-use

[AverageJoe90]

117. Seconded. n/t

[dionysus]

123. vaht? vas you shaying shumthing about glen greenwald.. to meee?

he's tough.. as nails....

[Admiral Loinpresser]

130. Obama. Puke Out Loud...n/t

n/t

[cali]

34. oh codswallop. more like the threat is blowback from drone killings that we've been carrying

out like no tomorrow.

[Lonr]

37. The timing is rather suspicious.

However, regardless of whether the terror threat is legitimate, there is no justification for the NSA ( or any other agency in our government ) to violate the Constitution of the United States.

[Whisp]

40. What a narcistic, greedy fucking idiot. n/t

[Number23]

175. I'm sorry, Whisp did you say something??

Don't hold back now.

[ProSense]

42. Greenwald: Obama is trying to upstage me.

It's not about Greenwald!!!

[warrprayer]

46. LOL datz funneez!

<snip>

"This is a big deal because it's coming from the horse's mouth. Tom Ridge admits in his new book what we've known for a long time and what has been reported years ago.


Former US homeland security chief Tom Ridge charges in a new book that top aides to then-president George W. Bush pressured him to raise the "terror alert" level to sway the November 2004 US election.


Some of Bush's critics had repeatedly questioned whether the administration was using warnings of a possible attack to blunt the political damage from the unpopular Iraq war by shifting the debate to the broader "war on terrorism," which had wide popular appeal.

<snip>

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/tom-ridge-admits-terror-alerts-were-use

[ProSense]

55. What?

[warrprayer]

59. just pointing out

that this wouldn't be the first time terra scarra has been used for political ends.

[ProSense]

92. Don't worry

Greenwald refuses to be upstaged.

US reporter says he has huge cache of Snowden files
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023415993

[Luminous Animal]

48. He never said what the headline claims he said. The lies, they just keep coming.

Read the damn interview.

[geek tragedy]

124. Did he plagiarize Limbaugh, or did Limbaugh plagiarize him? nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

185. Nope ...

He totally didn’t say that in the 4th paragraph of the piece.

He only said:

Here we are in the midst of one of the most intense debates and sustain debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two claiming that it has decimated Al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world … And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congress - who, remember, are the leading defender of the NSA at this point – to exploit that terrorist threat, and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.

That’s completely different from saying the “Embassy closings looks like a conspiracy to silence NSA debate.”

[Agschmid]

51. Bull.

[whatchamacallit]

63. Wrong! That's something only a lying, spying government would do

... Oh wait...

[99th_Monkey]

64. But what about all that "CHATTER" out there?

just like before 9/11.

[AZ Progressive]

70. Americans are so gullible

This is something TPTB know for sure.

[99th_Monkey]

76. .

what's "TPTB" again?

[grasswire]

202. The Powers That Be nt

[99th_Monkey]

205. snap. i knew that, but thanks for the reminder. ;-)

[AZ Progressive]

67. Isn't it interesting that the first time we have had a major bush style terror warning in many years

especially since Obama became president, had to be just right when there's a debate about NSA surveillance. Anyone remember Bush using these terror threats to silence debates, and even against Kerry in 2004?

[KoKo]

73. yep.....it's interesting for sure to those of us who remember the timing. n/t

[DirkGently]

97. It's super Bushy. Can the Vermillion Terror Alert warning be far behind?

[woo me with science]

99. +1

[ecstatic]

141. I don't think so. There have been a multitude of RW inspired "scandals"

lately, but the NSA one has been a fringe issue that the mainstream media has ignored for the most part.

[DirkGently]

182. Rightwingers are backing the NSA. And you think it's been "ignored?"

Maybe you've missed all the Congressional Democrats like Alan Grayson now seeking NSA reform? Or that the main people trying to tamp down the story are rightwingers like Lindsey Graham?

Weird take.

[ecstatic]

189. Actually, they're split just like Dems are nt

[DirkGently]

193. Split with Dems favoring NSA reform, you mean.

"We're here today for a very simple reason: to defend the Fourth Amendment, to defend the privacy of each and every American," Amash said as he introduced his measure. Lawmakers' votes, he said, would answer one simple question, "Do we oppose the suspicionless collection of every American's phone records?"

On Wednesday, at least, the answer was no. The House voted 217-205 to defeat the amendment after intense last-minute lobbying from the White House and the NSA.

Democrats voted for the amendment by a 111-to-83 margin. Republicans, meanwhile, split 134 to 93 against it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/justin-amash-amendment_n_3647893.html

Rightwingers LOVE the NSA.

So, to recap, none of this is a "RW inspired scandal" as suggested in the earlier post, and neither is the media or anyone else ignoring it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. Al Queda bogeymen sell more than whistle blowers.

[a2liberal]

74. duh

I thought that was obvious from the moment they started talking about the "most credible threat since 9/11" that happened to be discovered by intercepted communication at just the time when there was a somewhat credible threat to the continuation of the massive surveillance state.

[DirkGently]

79. There's "conspiracy" and there's spin. This smells like the latter.

The information doesn't have to be false. It likely isn't false. Whether it's something that would have been publicized and promoted as an immediate, incendiary threat at time when rightwing Republicans and White House weren't also frantically trying to tamp down public alarm about NSA surveillance is a perfectly valid question.

This information is all tightly controlled to begin with. A very few people decide when to take something NSA or CIA picks up and announce it publicly. It would be the easiest thing in the world to cherry-pick a piece of "chatter" and decide to "terror alert" it, Bush-regime style.

And isn't that all this really is? "Lookout, we're on Tangerine Alert!" Remember how the "threat level" always rose to a more alarming shade of whatever when Bush / Cheney were taking heat? Are we also to believe now that didn't happen either, and was an "ego-trip" / "conspiracy theory?"

It's not like it's a novel theory, or even a theory at all, that authorities would invoke the very thing they claim justifies authoritarian tactics -- the threat of an outside enemy -- in order to defend themselves.

And they don't have to particularly "lie" to do it. They have only to select and emphasize and publicize.

[pnwmom]

86. These are two entirely separate issues, despite what Greenwald thinks.

The NSA is doing its job when it spies on terrorists. Not when it spies on Americans without warrants.

[Luminous Animal]

170. Greenwald thinks there is nothing wrong with spying on terrorists. You'd know this if you actually

Last edited Tue Aug 6, 2013, 09:20 PM - Edit history (1)

read the interview instead of Raw Story's lying headline.

[pnwmom]

172. I don't care if he pays lip service to that.

When he helps Snowden leak information about our spying on other countries, he's proving the opposite.

[SCVDem]

88. Hey Greenwald!

Fuck off!

[tblue]

89. That was my first thought.

It worked well for Bush. Why wouldn't this admin try it?

[thesquanderer]

90. I liked this post on HuffPo...

A user by the handle of MrOctober posted this:

"On one hand they are telling you that we need all this NSA and Homeland Security apparatus in place since 9/11, on the other hand they are telling you that the threats are just like they were hearing prior to 9/11.

So either they were spying on us everywhere before 9/11 or they really don't need all these additional spying programs, because 9/11 could have been prevented with the information they had."

[rtracey]

95. and if?

And if one of those embassies would be attacked and people killed, it would be ..."The NSA is at fault because they are spending too much time spying of Americans instead of Taliban"..... Greenwald is out for the cash, he has ZERO integrety .... dick

[Drunken Irishman]

101. Yes! Obama also orchestrated Benghazi as a false flag to lay the foundation for this attack.

Stupid points all around. Obama was nearly impeached over Benghazi. If he didn't take threats seriously, and another Benghazi happened, the Repubs would have his head on a platter - and so would those who are slamming him today for beefing up security in the region. That's the irony.

[baldguy]

110. Glenn's getting his lies from Rush Limbaugh now.

[Whisp]

111. Limbaugh the Rushbag thinks so too!

o Glenn, you are such a tool and such a fool.

[TheBlackAdder]

113. Well, Pres. Obama is becoming more GWBish every day. It like Tom Ridge's CODE RED. nt

[libodem]

114. I'll give this a big fat kick

And I'd recommend it too, but my button's not working. Might need to refresh my star? Hmmmm? I'm all full of conspiracies, today.

[bunnies]

118. Well then Yemen must be in on it too.

Yemeni officials have suggested al-Qaida threats to multiple potential targets in their country in recent days, including foreign installations and government offices in the capital of Sanaa as well as to the strategic Bab al-Mandeb straits at the entrance to the Red Sea in the southern Arabian Peninsula.

It is not clear if these reports are the same as the intelligence that led to the temporary shutdowns of 19 U.S. diplomatic posts across the Muslim world, reportedly instigated by an intercepted message between al-Qaida chief Ayman al-Zawahri and his deputy in Yemen about plans for a major terrorist attack.

(snip)

Yemen increased security around the presidential palace and vital state institutions. Tanks and armored vehicles were seen near the palace, and authorities set up checkpoints across the capital, searching cars and individuals, especially at night. Top government officials, along with military and security commanders, were asked to remain vigilant and limit their movements.

more: http://news.yahoo.com/yemen-criticizes-foreign-embassy-evacuations-165222441.html

[OnyxCollie]

121. I hate summer reruns.

When Democrats began conducting hearings on domestic surveillance in the summer of '07, "chatter" and Al Qaeda threats troubled Michael Chertoff's gut.

Chertoff’s Gut Says Summer Terrorist Attack
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/chertoffs_gut_says_summer_terrorist_attack/

Fearing complacency among the American people over possible terror threats, U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said in Chicago Tuesday that the nation faces a heightened chance of an attack this summer. “I believe we are entering a period this summer of increased risk,” Chertoff told the Chicago Tribune‘s editorial board in an unusually blunt and frank assessment of America’s terror threat level.

“Summertime seems to be appealing to them,” he said of al-Qaeda. “We do worry that they are rebuilding their activities.”

Still, Chertoff said there are not enough indications of an imminent plot to raise the current threat levels nationwide. And he indicated that his remarks were based on “a gut feeling” formed by past seasonal patterns of terrorist attacks, recent al-Qaeda statements, and intelligence he did not disclose. There is an assessment “not of a specific threat, but of increased vulnerability,” he added.

[woo me with science]

186. +1

[Arkana]

125. Jesus Christ, Glenn Greenwald sees conspiracy in his cereal.

I don't like the NSA shit either, but the Obama administration has never abused the terror alert system the way the Bush admin did. I have no reason to believe they're wagging the dog here.

[randome]

156. But Greenwald said something so...that's evidence, right?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Arkana]

159. For some people that seems to be all they need.

I wonder--would those same people believe it if the exact words Greenwald said came out of Rand Paul's mouth?

[Luminous Animal]

169. Except for the pesky FACT that he never said that. It is a fabrication originating with the

Raw Story headline writer. Incredible that so many DUers in their rush to smear Greenwald cannot take a moment to source the original material.

Ha! The smartest political discussion board on the net. Indeed.

Hey! And did you know that Al Gore invented the internet?


What he actually said:

And so, here we are in the midst of, you know, one of the most intense debates and sustained debates that we’ve had in a very long time in this country over the dangers of excess surveillance, and suddenly an administration that has spent two years claiming that it has decimated al-Qaeda decides that there is this massive threat that involves the closing of embassies and consulates throughout the world. And within literally an amount of hours, the likes of Saxby Chambliss and Lindsey Graham join with the White House and Democrats in Congress—who, remember, are the leading defenders of the NSA at this point—to exploit that terrorist threat and to insist that it shows that the NSA and these programs are necessary.

What that has to do with the ongoing controversy about the NSA is completely mystifying. Nobody has ever questioned or disputed that the U.S. government, like all governments around the world, ought to be eavesdropping and monitoring the conversations of people who pose an actual threat to the United States in terms of plotting terrorist attacks. The controversy is over the fact that they are sweeping up billions and billions of emails and telephone calls every single day from people around the world and in the United States who have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/5/greenwald_is_us_exaggerating_threat_to

[backscatter712]

131. Everyone except Greenwald used the word "conspiracy". Especially his opponents.

Gee, nobody would be spinning to push an agenda, would they?

[another_liberal]

132. Does seem rather conveniently timed, doesn't it?

These spy masters see their hold on a huge, secret budget slipping away. They may have become desperate to restore that good old "Scared to death of Terrorists" mentality in the more gullible segments of our generally pretty gullible population.

Lets face it folks, there are literally tens of billions of unaudited dollars at stake here, and the people running our NSA have no morality, not a shred of it.

[Iggo]

135. He's right. That's what it looks like.

Doesn't mean that's what it is. But that's what it looks like.

[Marr]

137. Yet another thing that was widely accepted as obvious around here when Bush was president,

but is just inconceivable when it's Obama.

I think the timing on this is quite suspicious.

[ecstatic]

138. That's just silly. If anything, the timing couldn't be worse.

A 7 year old child could predict Limbaugh/Greenwald's reaction to this latest twist.

[another_liberal]

155. Greenwald is nothing like Limbaugh, and you miss the point.

Greenwald deals in good sources and leaked, official documentation. Limbaugh is a fucking joke with a loud voice.

As to your seven year old: maybe you should quit relying on his insights.

[Zorra]

139. Well, on the bright side, that's way better than

getting nine-elevened to silence debate.

[Cha]

168. Not a chance.. Greenwald rearing his ugly ass every 15 minutes

with the latest GG Propaganda will make sure of that.

[shawn703]

171. Yeah because

The administration needed to get a story out of the press most people didn't give a shit about anymore anyway.

[SummerSnow]

177. So this asshat wants the embassies to stay open during a immenent threat..

and if Americans are killed they want Obama gone . Keep them open he's criticized..close them he is criticized. Mr President tell these motherfuckers to kiss your ass

[Windy]

180. bravo !!!! nT

[another_liberal]

184. What kind of a solution to an "immenent threat" is closing dozens of our embassies?

If their information is no more specific than that, maybe it isn't very dependable either? Or, just maybe, it isn't even a genuine threat at all, and is just a ploy to ramp up our fears to the point where we will all nervously say, "Go ahead, please, do listen to my phone calls and keep records of every email I send or receive. Just don't let the 'Evil Doers' get me!"

Consider the fact that we have unaccountably reopened two of our embassies, the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the midst of this horrible threat we reopen the two embassies to which Al-Qaeda has the easiest geographical access?

[gulliver]

179. And the prosecution rests.

Buh bye Glenn. Even the most idiotic won't listen to a word you say now.

[another_liberal]

190. No, the most idiotic will continue to attack him without reason.

Who, may I ask, do you think you are to do so?

[Summer Hathaway]

181. Does anything happen anywhere in the world

that Greenwald doesn't think is all about HIM?

[GoneFishin]

187. Booga. Booga. Color coded alert levels all over again.

How gullible.

[Skip Intro]

191. Immediately after CNN reports CIA opps in Benghazi night of attack.

Running arms to Syria.

I didn't miss it.

Bet a lot of people did, though.

Mission Accomplished?

[Progressive dog]

195. Everything looks like a conspiracy to Greenwald,

or at least pretending it does keeps his paychecks coming.

[Coyotl]

199. Where was Glenn during the Benghazi hearings?

Shouldn't he be on Fox News with that line?

[Quantess]

200. Glenn Greenwald cares about Benghazi?

I doubt that.

[Historic NY]

201. I didn't know the government was suppose to report their ..

actions to him. He doesn't even have a security clearence.

[AppleBottom]

203. Pretty much, fear is a great control tool

Constant propaganda from this administration helps too.

[AppleBottom]

204. It's only a conspiracy to those that don't understand what 2+2=

Greenwald is simply pointing out that water is wet and that sunlight is bright and warm.