Leaked E-Mails: Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests---NOT--- chemical weapon concern

[kpete]

Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concern
Massacres of civilians are being exploited for narrow geopolitical competition to control Mideast oil, gas pipelines



The 2011 uprisings, it would seem - triggered by a confluence of domestic energy shortages and climate-induced droughts which led to massive food price hikes - came at an opportune moment that was quickly exploited. Leaked emails from the private intelligence firm Stratfor including notes from a meeting with Pentagon officials confirmed US-UK training of Syrian opposition forces since 2011 aimed at eliciting "collapse" of Assad's regime "from within."



Much of the strategy currently at play was candidly described in a 2008 US Army-funded RAND report, Unfolding the Future of the Long War (pdf). http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG738.pdf
The report noted that "the economies of the industrialized states will continue to rely heavily on oil, thus making it a strategically important resource." As most oil will be produced in the Middle East, the US has "motive for maintaining stability in and good relations with Middle Eastern states":

"The geographic area of proven oil reserves coincides with the power base of much of the Salafi-jihadist network. This creates a linkage between oil supplies and the long war that is not easily broken or simply characterized... For the foreseeable future, world oil production growth and total output will be dominated by Persian Gulf resources... The region will therefore remain a strategic priority, and this priority will interact strongly with that of prosecuting the long war."

In this context, the report identified several potential trajectories for regional policy focused on protecting access to Gulf oil supplies, among which the following are most salient:

"Divide and Rule focuses on exploiting fault lines between the various Salafi-jihadist groups to turn them against each other and dissipate their energy on internal conflicts. This strategy relies heavily on covert action, information operations (IO), unconventional warfare, and support to indigenous security forces... the United States and its local allies could use the nationalist jihadists to launch proxy IO campaigns to discredit the transnational jihadists in the eyes of the local populace... US leaders could also choose to capitalize on the 'Sustained Shia-Sunni Conflict' trajectory by taking the side of the conservative Sunni regimes against Shiite empowerment movements in the Muslim world.... possibly supporting authoritative Sunni governments against a continuingly hostile Iran."

MORE, LOTS MORE:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines
Alternative links (for those of you who hate the Guardian):
http://con4lib.com/why-the-west-really-wants-syria/
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201285133440424621.html

*****************

Obviously this isn't the only factor motivating foreign involvement in the conflict — each faction has its own motivations. But it's hard to see how it's not a factor, especially if you consider the report mentioned below of a meeting between Saudi Arabia's Prince Bandar and Vladimir Putin. Bandar, "purporting to speak with the full backing of the US," supposedly offered cooperation on oil and natural gas and promised "not to compete" with a different pipeline planned by Russia, if Putin would drop his support for Assad.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/politics/2013/08/saudi-russia-putin-bandar-meeting-syria-egypt.html#ixzz2d5UVLSNv
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/08/27
*****************

What The US, Russia Are Really Quarreling Over: Pipelines
For both countries, the Snowden affair is just another ho-hum spat in the greater imperial rivalry.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/what-the-us-and-russia-are-really-fighting-about/167164/

[MotherPetrie]

1. K&R

[BuelahWitch]

2. No!

I never would have guessed! And, kick!

[kelliekat44]

38. This is old news. And who didn't already know this? nt

[BuelahWitch]

41. I guess I should have added this to my post...

[Rockyj]

77. I think this will help others who don't know

wake up and it takes us away from the moral ground argument!

[chervilant]

87. The vast majority of the little town in which I reside

"didn't already know this." Most would be hard pressed to locate Syria on a map. And, if FOX says Obama needs to take out Assad, that's what they'll support and all they need to hear.

[GeorgeGist]

121. Sarcasm ...

I hope!

[polly7]

3. BINGO! As is and has always been every other intervention/'humanitarian' mission in the ME. nt.

[Cronus Protagonist]

26. Follow the money

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023555221

The odd thing is that it would be cheaper for them to put more cash into alternative energy and develop that out than to glass over the middle east just so we can steal their oil.

And it would be cleaner, better, forward thinking and a boon to mankind. But the creepy reptiles who run big oi and the BFEE have no imagination or humanity.

[Volaris]

50. putting money into cheaper, renewable energy,

(the kind that exists forever, like THE SUN) won't increase next quarter's bonus payout for US Oil exec's; if there can never be a fear of a shortage, how can spikes in prices continue to be justified, hrmmmmm?

See, this is why Dirty Liberals aren't actually allowed to RUN THINGS, because then how in the world would we be able to justify our own greed-driven, narcissistic, otherwise totally POINTLESS existence?
(Sarcasm OFF)

What the US needs is a Department of Energy that is allowed to open a not-for-profit National Energy Corporation, that has the power of it's own volition to open solar panel and Alternative Energy production facilities in whatever county or district wants one. Yeah, the Oil companies will bitch about big government intervention in the Free Market, but fuck them for the following MARKET reasons:

1) It's a FREE MARKET. Anyone (and that includes WE THE PEOPLE) is allowed to open up shop, and compete for customers.
2) We The People are not competing for YOUR CUSTOMERS. We are offering a NOT FOR PROFIT Service to all your former (and want-TO-BE-former) Customers that you have gone and pissed off to the point where they DON'T want to do business with you anymore. Your loss for being so tone-deaf to what your customers actually think is important. Welcome to the FREE MARKET you love to use as a club in political discussions, but then secretly HATEHATEHATE when it comes to sending your lobbyist-army to DC.
3) Yeah it may be a Free Market, but if it's not also a SUSTAINABLE MARKET over the long-term, at some point there won't be ANY market left at all. You think all that cash you've horded will be worth anything more than the price of the nice, warm Fire you can start with it after the Natural Disaster Apocalypse happens? Yeah, those of us with some idea of LONG-TERM Business acumen didn't think so, either.

Wars and Death for Energy, when the Sun is going to (Still) come up every morning for another 4 billion years. With logic like THAT as our Sword and Shield, what could POSSIBLY go wrong with our military intervention in Syria??

[dougolat]

79. +++ nt

[CRH]

93. Not this again, ...

You can't talk that shit, you are making too much sense.

+ Many, good post

[Raksha]

106. +1000

[Blanks]

135. It's extremely short-sighted of the oil companies...

...particularly since they control that industry too.

http://www.ehow.com/list_7358409_solar-manufacturers-owned-oil-companies.html#page=4

Despite the idea that we can just put them on the roof and they'll generate energy forever - everything requires maintenance. I expect that if they started trying to sell the panels to EVERYONE now, by the time everyone in the world owned solar panels and the additional equipment required to convert it to household energy - it would be time to replace the first systems. Then there's natural disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes, hail etc.

The oil companies would benefit more from immediately embracing the conversion than they do with their current path.

[notadmblnd]

54. But then corporations would have to use their own money.

This way, they reap all the benefits while US citizens die and pay for it for them.

[Volaris]

88. It used to be a GIVEN in any decent Business School,

that in order to stay one step ahead of your competition, you took a fairly large %age of the profit you were generating and re-invested it into research and development of new products and better forms of delivery. The Energy industry is one of the FEW large sectors left in the economy that is still making it's bones off of a century-old technology and this because they have convinced the rest of us that next quarter's profit margin is MORE important than having the company you invest in around in another 100 years. If Sears or Coca-Cola or Hershey's had tried that as start-ups, no one would have ever heard of them, because they would have failed miserably. It's like the Air Force saying, "Well, you see we need to spend all this tax money to develop new and better Nuclear weapons, because the ones we have are based on the same basic design (still) as the one we built in 1945.

Yes, theres only a few effective ways to turn hydrogen into a weapon. But the basic concept is STILL 70 YEARS OLD. It's like thinking that Horses are going to play a pretty large part in the next large-scale land-war and we had better keep paying all those war-horse breeders as much money as they say they need in order to see to it that we have BETTER war-horses than the OTHER guy.

[BrotherIvan]

4. Seems as though we are the axis of evil

I'm so ashamed of my greedy, corrupt country.

[avaistheone1]

5. Follow the money.

It never fails this makes complete sense.

[Coyotl]

13. In the Middle East, follow the Imam, literally. Religious sectarianism trumps money.

The Saudis are drowning in money already. What may be more significant is global domination by a particular religious faith. Much of what is happening in Syria is already sectarian. The real danger with Syria may be that it erupts into a full-scale religious conflict involving Iran and the Saudis.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. The Saudi Royals are sitting on a powder keg at home.

They keep their Wahhabi fundie literalists barely under control by distracting them onto foreign, particularly Shiite, "outrages."

That is to say, they use religious sectarianism as a way to stay on top of the money pyramid.

[loudsue]

98. Well said. n/t

[Snake Plissken]

6. Seriously? did anyone actually think any of our involvement in the Middle East was about WMDs

If it was; Wouldn't you think we'd be going after the only country in the Middle East which is known to have WMDs?

Rather than giving them billions of dollars in aid every year?

[mike_c]

74. +1

[Enthusiast]

84. Your post has crossed the line of acceptability standards

and official posting guidelines. The Central Scrutinizer will knocking on your door.

[Coyotl]

7. US involvement in a civil conflict is illegal.

[leeroysphitz]

55. lol

[KittyWampus]

8. What you fail to acknowledge is #1. Diplomatic solutions are thwarted by PUTIN

#2. Russia/Syria's means to maintaining control are growing increasingly heinous.

The gross ignorance on DU is truly stunning. Kerry and Europe and even the f*cking Saudis have been trying to use a carrot for years now.

Or are DU'ers really denying the Arab Spring really happened?

Syrian civilians and army defectors didn't start an authentic uprising?

[JDPriestly]

19. Speaking of diplomatic solutions, what do YOU think the American and Turkish ambassadors

were discussing in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012?

[MattSh]

22. Putin, Putin, Putin

It's always about Putin.

Talk about gross ignorance.

[Link Speed]

60. The "Arab Spring" was cooked up by the US

I know a local professor who worked with the so-called Egyptian insurgents for years on the "Spring".

The US knew what would happen, just not when it would happen. The Egyptians demanded to control the trigger. The "uprising" was authentic, all right, but we were behind it all the way. And, like most thing our intelligence is behind, it went awry. Just another Iran.

All of that"Arab Spring" bullshit is starry-eyed idealism. It is all about control of Northern Africa. If we can't control it, we will settle for chaos.

As far as "authentic uprising", if "choreographed by US and UK" defines "authentic", well I suppose one could stretch it to mean same.

The ignorance on this is not "gross", merely selectively spotty.

I have never replied to any of your idealistic posts because your "reality" is not of the real world. But I just got out of bed and saw this claptrap and could not resist.

Read the article at the link below, then we can talk about how well it all worked out.

http://www.watchsonomacounty.com/2011/03/washington/ssu-professor-egypt-revolt-not-spontaneous/

[Maraya1969]

92. I don't think what you said and what the OP said are mutually exclusive.

For example I got stuck on one paragraph where it talked about the US and its allies having prescient knowledge of a lot of things including water shortages. And I thought, "are they causing these things?" But no, they just have knowledge and maybe push things along and they use all these crises to their advantage. I don't think the "youth bulge" in the middle east happened because the US stopped giving them contraceptives 20 years ago. I don't know what caused it. Probably something like what caused our baby boomer generation. I'm sure someone knows.

I think what the OP and the other links are getting at is the US and its allies have the resources to see these things are going to happen AND encourage other things to happen so as to make situation suited to OUR best interests.

I don't think our President now is involved in much of this crap because he has been a big proponent of solar and wind energy and we have made great strides over the last several years while he has been president. If a republican was in there they would want the oil because it is a much better money maker so they wouldn't have so many incentive in place, (like I just found out that you cannot "rent" solar panels in Florida. Florida the sunshine state and you cannot rent solar panels!)

[KG]

9. the US was waiting to see who was gonna win, and back that horse...

[Le Taz Hot]

10. I'm surprised anyone here

thought it was for anything else. ANYTHINHG we do in the ME has to do with oil. If The Congo Republican were using gas against it's own people do you seriously think the U.S. would give a shit? Nope.

[Recursion]

100. I'm surprised nobody here has pointed out that *that's not what the leaked documents say*

I usually expect DUers to be able to read.

One set of leaked documents describe the Pentagon's support for the Syrian opposition fighters.

A completely separate, publicly available document talks about the importance of oil to the world economy.

But Syria isn't a large producer of oil (it's comparable to Taiwan, or Australia). So the rest of this is a "let's connect some dots here", and kind of questionable dots to begin with. eg, if it were about oil, why aren't we bombing Venezuela instead?

[Le Taz Hot]

101. Yeah.

Rah rah Obama. Got it.

[Recursion]

102. So, no substantive response?

Got it.

[lumpy]

103. Thank you. The oil 'thing' doesn't cut it in Syria's case.

[Little Star]

123. You asked: "if it were about oil, why aren't we bombing Venezuela instead?"

Although Syria produces relatively modest quantities of oil and gas, its location is strategic in terms of regional security and prospective energy transit routes. Regional integration in the energy sector is expected to increase as a result of the 2008 opening of the Syrian link of the Arab Gas Pipeline[32]

More at link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Gas_Pipeline


Syria's location is strategic in terms of regional security and prospective energy transit routes.

All their oil are belongs to the west!

[Recursion]

124. OK, tell me specifically what you think about this pipeline made war desirable?

I've yet to hear a specific theory elucidated other than ominously saying "the pipeline".

[Little Star]

125. I am no expert on the subject so it will be hard for me to explain anything......

But I have read others on DU explaining it in-depth and they made sense. Search DU.

I will hope that someone who is better versed than I will see this and explain it. I'm not trying to be an ass here. I've just read enough around DU and other places to have formed an opinion that they are correct.

[Recursion]

126. I have searched DU. It's a bunch of links to pages about the existence of pipelines

Pipelines which have been around in some cases for decades, in other cases for years.

The biggest problem here is that the only country the pipeline particularly hurts is Russia, and in fact completing it is one of the main things the Kremlin and Damascus seem to have disagreed about. But Russia isn't trying to topple Assad.

[Little Star]

129. If I run across some of what I've read again I'll send you a link. It's out there. Peace.

[Little Star]

133. May I also suggest that you read the OP we are now in.....

making sure to click on and read all the links. There is a lot of info right in there about why the mere location of Syria is important to the USA and our interests.

This Syrian thing isn't really about humanitarian intervention, it's a excuse to protect US interests (oil).

Just a thought.

[Coyotl]

11. What's with this story? Rebels admit gas attack result of mishandling chemical weapons

Rebels admit gas attack result of mishandling chemical weapons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014581369

[Jackpine Radical]

21. Watch the lapdog media move to discredit that story.

I have no idea if the story is true, but the immediate response will be to scuttle it rather than to investigate.

[Coyotl]

59. I noticed the story was not propagating via the usual channels.

But, I found it is spreading somewhat. I just posted it to LBN.

[Bradical79]

95. It's a tabloid blogging site

Owned by a rightwing nut. It's not a legit news source. That's why you don't see the story being picked up.

[stevil]

110. Watch the source walk it back.

Clarification: Dale Gavlak assisted in the research and writing process of this article, but was not on the ground in Syria. Reporter Yahya Ababneh, with whom the report was written in collaboration, was the correspondent on the ground in Ghouta who spoke directly with the rebels, their family members, victims of the chemical weapons attacks and local residents.

Gavlak is a MintPress News Middle East correspondent who has been freelancing for the AP as a Amman, Jordan correspondent for nearly a decade. This report is not an Associated Press article; rather it is exclusive to MintPress News.

[link:http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/|

[KittyWampus]

32. Ah, relying on Sky News, The Examiner and World Net Daily. Says a lot for you.

[Coyotl]

61. I'm not relying on anything, except to ask a question here. The long-time AP reporter is credible

in the eyes of many: http://www.salon.com/writer/dale_gavlak/

[George II]

58. That report was faked, and doesn't appear anywhere but that single site

[Coyotl]

62. Your statement is false.

Don't you just hate it when you make a sweeping claim only to find that you could have done a web search and proved yourself wrong in an instant!

[George II]

64. That report appeared on a single website, and it now is....

....."Error 503 Service Unavailable"

Any other "reports" on the Google are simply regurgitations of the report from that site.

[Coyotl]

71. Yes, that little domain was flooded by this report and overwhelmed quickly.

I assume you are not saying it is untrue because the web server can't handle the level of interest!

[George II]

72. I'm saying that it may be untrue because it hasn't appeared anywhere else and...

...even if true, that is a single incident where relatively few people died. There were 11 separate attacks - 11 accidents?

Why hasn't the report appeared anywhere else, or at least from more than that one source?

[Coyotl]

73. A chemical release killing over 1,400 people is NOT "relatively few people died"

I must take exception to your characterization of the numbers.

[George II]

85. I didn't say that!!!!!!!!!!

There were 1400 killed in all the strikes. If you read the questionably factual article from Mint, you would know how many allegedly died in the "accident":

Gavlak is a Middle Eastern journalist who filed the report about the rebels claiming responsibility on the Mint Press News website, which is affiliated with AP.

In that report allegedly the rebels told him the chemical attack was a result of mishandling chemical weapons.

The father of a rebel who was killed in what's now being called an accident by many in Ghouta and Damascus said: "My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim. The father said at least 12 rebels including his son were killed by the chemical weapons.

That is "THE attack", which was one of at least eleven attacks. So, the article is talking about an accident that killed "at least 12 rebels", NOT 1400 people who died in the ten other locations in rebel held territory. You might want to check the map in this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nearly-1500-killed-in-syrian-chemical-weapons-attack-us-says/2013/08/30/b2864662-1196-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

Quite honestly, if you're not going to do a tiny bit of research before you drone on, I really don't care if you take exception to what I say, especially since what I said is correct.

Thank you.

[lumpy]

105. Thanks. Been wondering about that report and wondering why it hadn't been reported anywhere

else.

[riderinthestorm]

12. Have all of the "Arab Spring" type "revolutions (sic) now been exposed

as largely a product of outside forces and their oil needs? Even those that looked to be "grassroots" have had patrons, benefactors and participants that clearly have ulterior motives.

[KittyWampus]

16. awesome… now DU'ers can deny the Arab Spring too! It was all a PNAC plot.

[riderinthestorm]

17. PNAC, Gulf oil states Sunni religious fanaticism v Shia states,

centuries-long ethnic cleansing of Christian minorities...

Many different sectors played their behind-the-scenes parts in the so called Arab Spring revolutions exploiting true grass roots movements as well as providing agents provocateurs outright.

[leveymg]

30. Are you claiming that the US, France, UK had no role in those regime changes and rebellions?

If you are, you're more deluded and worse informed than I had thought.

Nobody denies that there was domestic opposition. In fact, that was essential to varying degrees to all those destabilization operations.

[KittyWampus]

33. No. But I"m also not blindly pointing out PNAC and applying it to all situations AND ignoring Putin

and his role in all of this mess.

And then again, I never swallowed Assange's noble intentions.

[riderinthestorm]

35. You are the only one who seems to think this is all about PNAC on this thread nt

[KittyWampus]

42. right… it's all about Oil.

[riderinthestorm]

48. I guess you glossed right over mine (and a few others') points about religious

sectarianism, tribal fighting, ethnic cleansing AND yes the oil....

Do you think the US is going to get involved because the Sunnis are killing Shia? Really? And if you think they are getting involved because chem weapons were used then I really have a bridge to sell ya...



For some players in this conflict, yes it is ALL about the oil. That's what the OP is about.

[MindMover]

82. On that bridge you are talking about selling, the worlds powers around 1923 thought

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2013, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)

that they should stay out of Hitlers business at that time ....

6,000,000+ lives and countless others were lost because of the decision to let him play in his own sandbox ...

I personally equate this butcher of Damascus to be as dangerous as Hitler ....

[Caretha]

104. Then you need to

pick up a history book or two and figure out the difference between Syria and Germany..

Wow, they really quit educating people your age.

[MindMover]

141. Go stick your head in the sand and say over and over again ...

that "Peace will come in our time" peace will come in our time, peace will come in our time, peace will come in our time ....

http://askville.amazon.com/stop-Hitler-beginning-war/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=5500037

http://www.abelard.org/hitler/hitler.php

http://www.abelard.org//hitler2.htm

I do not believe you know the first thing about what you seem to think you are talking about.....

[GeorgeGist]

122. Godwin

Never fails.

[NealK]

132. Well, yes it is.

What? You think that this is an humanitarian thing? Gee, you're very gullible or you're pretending to be clueless.

[Renew Deal]

137. Just like Occupy Wall Street

[pangaia]

14. Rather obvious to anyone with a functioning brain,

isn't it.
And yet, YOU, kpete, take the time to find and present the proof. I ALWAYS appreciate your efforts in this way. I can sit and fume about it, try to tell other people I know what I believe is really going on, but when folks like you and others here make the effort to do the research, it gives me ammo when I need it.
Thanks for all you do..

[iamthebandfanman]

15. Yep

Hes exactly like Bush.
Exactly.
No difference.

Why wouldn't he follow a plan/report from 2008 ?

btw, where are these leaked emails that you are talking about?
all I see is a 'report from RAND that speculates' , no emails ? (I did only check the guardians link tho, am I missing something?)

[lumpy]

107. Is that the Rand corp.? yes, what emails?

.

[G_j]

18. reality sucks

doesn't it?

[soundsgreat]

23. McCain

has been promoting an invasion in Syria for years. After the Boston massacre, he increased the volume with the obvious intention to put pressure on Obama. Coincidence?

Obama has resisted for long, but finally resigned.

[B Calm]

120. We should send McCain to Syria to kick their asses!

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Absolutely SHOCKING!

[La Cucaracha]

25. I'm shocked!

Shocked!

[malaise]

27. Effin' Duh!!!

Always follow the oil and the money in any order

[lumpy]

108. "Follow the oil "is old hat . Not that much oil in Syria.

[Catherina]

28. Oil interests? And Bandar Bush involved? Say it ain't so! n/t

[grasswire]

39. Looks like the Bushies are still running the ME "game"

When will Bar call Obama her "other son"?

[Catherina]

57. Why else would Obama send McCain and Graham to represent his administration in the Middle East?

The neocons have been in the driver's seat on the Middle East since the Egyptian revolution. They were the first people Obama called to the White House for consultations when Tahrir heated up.

His bizarre selection either makes it clear who's in charge or whose policies Obama agrees with. Otherwise he would have sent Jimmy Carter or even Jesse Jackson.

Those two War hawks are closely tied to the Foundation for Defense of Democracies that's been waging the "[link:http://www.defenddemocracy.org/project/the-syria-project]" for years now. Check out its team. Many familiar and disgusting names.

Syria

For years, Syria has been a focus of FDD's research because of its alignment with Iran and support for organizations such as Hezbollah.[19] In 2012, as the Arab Spring spread to Syria, FDD launched "The Syria Project" to support dissident efforts in removing the Assad regime.[20] In that effort, FDD facilitated a Skype call between dissidents and U.S. journalists in 2012[21] and produced multiple studies and memos urging US officials to act.[22]

Criticism

The International Relations Center features a report on the foundation on its "Right Web" website, a program of the left-wing[23][24][25][26][27] think tank Institute for Policy Studies[28] which, according to its mission statement, seeks to "check the militaristic drift of the country". The report states that "although the FDD is an ardent critic of terrorism, it has not criticized actions taken by Israel against Palestinians that arguably fall into this category".[29] It terms the FDD a "prominent member of the web of neoconservative-aligned think tanks", including the American Enterprise Institute, the Hudson Institute and Freedom House.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies

[soundsgreat]

86. Here they are at it again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014582114

[lumpy]

111. It isn't so.

[Ocelot]

29. K&R (n/t)

[polichick]

31. Wish that was surprising. k&r

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. quelle surprise

[reusrename]

37. It's a racket. n/t

[grasswire]

40. Carlin said it was a club...

...."and you ain't in it."

[TBF]

43. It's always about the oil (money, power and control). nt

[Little Star]

128. Yes it is. Humanitarian, my ass.

[mick063]

44. If Rwanda had oil.............................

Just sayin

[gopiscrap]

45. Gee what a surprise

fucking oil companies..they should be nationalized.

[obxhead]

46. Anyone who thinks this is about the children is delusional.

The US has NEVER cared about the children anywhere on the planet to involve the military. Never.

This is about interests and I'm sure those interests include, but are not limited to, oil.

The children are what are paraded through the news though to build support for an action that is not required and should not be allowed to happen.

[George II]

47. "Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests"???

Based on a FIVE year old document? Come on, you're really stretching here. And of course, Snowden has to be thrown in the mix, too.

Give us a break.

[iamthebandfanman]

65. +1

on top of that I don't see any emails.. just a report, as you said, from 2008... am I missing something ? or are we to believe electing a new president literally changed nothing?
I feel like people commenting in support of the OP didn't even go to the links ..

[lumpy]

112. I'm not sure. Did I see Syria's name even mentioned in the doc. ?

[blkmusclmachine]

49. Follow the money. The WH is just the frontman.

[sabrina 1]

51. Bandar Boosh again. Keeps rearing his head in all these ME 'conflicts' and shamefully

friend of Al Queda that he is, he's always on OUR side!

[another_liberal]

52. Lucky I own all of that Chevron and Shell stock!

Looks like I'll be able to buy an even bigger yacht, and maybe a Greek island to park it at.

"My country tis of thee . . .!"

[notadmblnd]

53. It's always been about the control of the flow of oil

It's not so much about wanting it for ourselves as it is about controlling who gets access to it.

I for one am not willing to send more of our children to die for corporate interests.

[valerief]

56. War is always about protecting the money, not the people. nt

[Phlem]

63. K&R!

-p

[Initech]

66. If corporations are people, can we arrest the oil companies for treason?

[yurbud]

67. why would anyone hate the Guardian besides that it disproves their talking points?

[workinclasszero]

68. Because of oil??

I'm shocked! Shocked I say!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. You mean evil greedy people will kill for money?

Ehhhh, could be.

[Hutzpa]

70. Well Duh!!

you think

[DevonRex]

75. You linked to CONSERVATIVES FOR LIBERTY????

We believe capitalism, individualism, low taxation and minimal state interference are conducive to the greatest freedom, happiness and prosperity of mankind and seek to promote these values through the Conservative party, media and wider public.
http://con4lib.com/mission/

[felix_numinous]

76. Maybe this time, unlike GWBush

the bombing will not go forward despite people the world over knowing it is being done for oil. Perhaps with enough public pressure President Obama will have enough of a window of opportunity to press the pause button.

The MIC oil people have to be stopped, the sooner the better.

I strongly believe that to oppose the MIC (and NSA) does not insult the President, but is a matter of making ourselves heard honestly in the pursuit of truth, and participating, as is our duty.

[backscatter712]

78. They'll call it Operation Pump Spike...

... Or Operation Gas the Middle Class!

[BainsBane]

80. Syria ranks 33rd in the world in oil production

after the UK, Thailand, Azerbaijan, and the US, which is third.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=88

[pnwmom]

81. How can a report from 5 years ago prove what Obama's motivation is now?

What does that report have to do with the recent large-scale gas attack?

[AverageJoe90]

83. I'd like to express my skepticism over this.

For all this talk about oil pipelines, here's a vital question: why did oil baron David Koch, of all people, recently state his *opposition* to such a war? Is he just being oppositional, or is there something about this that *isn't* in the interests of Koch & his fellow petrol magnates? You would think that guys like Koch would be all for it.....

Perhaps the BushCo factions may indeed have contigency plans, to take advantage of, an Assad overthrow.....but there is a strong possibility that oil as a primary factor may have to be ruled out entirely; unlike Iraq, Syria doesn't have much oil of its own, and even if theu tried to build a pipeline, there would be enormous risks of sabotage and even outright destruction of equipment, and would likely be done by the very same people that the BushCo factions were trying to prop up.....AQ, the Salafi fuckers, etc.

[Scuba]

89. Because it's not his oil company, but the competition, who will benefit.

[AverageJoe90]

91. I don't buy that. You wouldn't BELIEVE how tightly tied these guys are.........

on stuff like this. I don't remember any of them fighting over Iraq, when that got started.....

Frankly, I'm just not quite seeing the oil connection anymore. If David Koch is against it, then it stands to reason that the Oiligarchs might not benefit from a Syria invasion after all.....

[DeSwiss]

90. Here's another smoking gun.....

...of course we miss them ALL THE TIME:

''Much of the strategy currently at play was candidly described in a 2008 US Army-funded RAND report, Unfolding the Future of the Long War (pdf).''

But they always do it out in the open. Screw us, that is. Just like PNAC. They write down this crazy war-mongering shit, and tell each other their bestest ideas for starting Armageddon, and they eventually end up with an insane plan that they put together in a nice report with a binder. These reports are usually paid for by the taxpayers in one way or another. This now serves as ''proof'' of a consensus.

The reports always say how we should commit various atrocities against other countries and their people, in order that we protect our way of life. No matter how many lives it costs someone else. That's what it boils down to. The ''press,'' thoroughly owned as they are, ignores these reports, or casts them in an incredulous can-you-believe-these-nuts? voice so we get the ''right'' idea. The rest are demoted to Loonieville (AKA: Youtube).

And where are we the Sheeple in all this? What are we doing? We demand the right to vote so we can keep it all going, in the mistaken belief that we can ''fix it'' while its moving. Like trying to change a flat without stopping the car {shakes head}.

- So I've decide to go full-on Carlin. I'm just gonna sit back and watch the show because it sure is funny watching us do the same thing over and over again thinking we got it fixed this time. It can get boring to watch, but then after a while..... it's funny again.

Until it's not.

K&R

[City Lights]

94. It's always about oil. nt

[Brigid]

96. I am shocked!

Just shocked, I tell you!

[idwiyo]

97. K&R

[Recursion]

99. The leaked emails don't say a thing about oil

You can do better than that, kpete.

The leaked documents show the USG has been giving aid to the Syrian opposition and hoped they would overthrow Assad.

A completely separate publicly released document points out the importance of oil to the world economy, but then you fail to mention that the middle east is no longer the biggest oil producing region in the world (Russia and the US both outproduce Saudi Arabia, for instance).

[joshcryer]

109. Yep, lively discussion here:

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2013, 01:06 AM - Edit history (1)

edit: fixed link to directly to the discussion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023525307#post2

US interests are in the long term neutering regimes with weapons and power.

[lumpy]

114. Global Research blog is the reference for information the original poster quoted in the DU post you

indicate. Global Research is a rigid vehement far-right Obama-hating site.So many lies and convoluted stories going around be sure to verify.

[joshcryer]

115. I was linking the ensuing discussion in that thread.

Not supporting the OP.

Please read where I outline the US' future oil interests and the lively discussion in those subthreads. The OP did a hit and run there and didn't reply to anything substantiative. Even when someone pointed out that pipelines aren't very useful in warzones it was ignored.

edit: I fixed the link to more properly indicate what I meant, I didn't intend to support the OP there in any way.

[lumpy]

113. Yes where are those 'leaked e-mails' ? And the 'oil thing' crap just doesn' hack it. Syria is way

down the list in oil production. To top it off the poster listed a far right blog as one of his references.

[brett_jv]

118. Middle East >>> Saudi Arabia ...

& the Middle East produces much more oil for EXPORT than the US or Russia, by far. Both mainly use up their own oil and need billions more barrels on top of it ... hence the importance of the Middle East.

Not saying your overall point isn't a good one, but the ME is phenomenally important to world oil supplies, even if the USA 'produces' more oil than KSA. That point cannot really be overstated.

[NealK]

116. It's like déjà vu all over again.

Thanks kpete!

[Egalitarian Thug]

117. +1 for you & K&R for the thread.

Now, let's see how long it takes the obnoxious dumbshits to hide this one...

They rule the night.

[NealK]

130. Holly shit, I just saw that.

So a post can be hidden for quoting what someone said? This is unreal, the alerter was probably one of the obnoxious dumbshits. Hey, jury? Who are the obnoxious dumbshits? Did we mention any particular DUer by name? If it's a call out then who are the obnoxious dumbshits? Do they have a group or are they wearing T-shirts saying: I'm part of the obnoxious dumbshits?

[LTX]

119. This makes no sense.

Syria is a nominal oil producer, and its untapped reserves just aren't significant enough to warrant any kind of immediate military action. In fact, oil prices rose on the speculation of intervention not because of any disruption of Syrian oil production, but because of the possibility of transportation interruptions that may result if conflict broadened beyond Syria. So intervention is considered a risk to oil interests, not a benefit.

You're going to have to explain what benefit to oil interests is allegedly being sought by intervention, and it has to be more than vague global conspiracy or generalized notions of the importance of middle eastern oil.

[liberal N proud]

127. Shocked - just shocked I'm telling you just shocked!

Mid-east country, military involvement and oil.

Who would have thought this?

[Skidmore]

131. Gasping over this suggests a certain naivete.

All international policies for all nations take into account a nation's interests. Currently with Egypt in chaos, the flow of fuel is part of the equation. As much as I want to see an immediate wholesale conversion to renewable energy sources, it isn't happening as long as we keep getting the Congresses we do. Don't include me in the aghast chorus. It is to be expected.

[Little Star]

134. Arab Gas Pipeline......

Wikipedia.org

Syria–Turkey connection[edit source]

In 2006 Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Romania reached an agreement to build the pipeline's extension through Syria to the Turkish border. From there, the pipeline would have been connected to the possible Nabucco Pipeline for the delivery of gas to Europe. Turkey forecasted buying up to 4 billion cubic metres (140 billion cubic feet) of gas per year from the Arab Gas Pipeline.[19] In 2008 Turkey and Syria signed an agreement to construct a 63 kilometres (39 mi) pipeline between Aleppo and Kilis as a first segment of the Syria-Turkey connection of the Arab Gas Pipeline[20][21] and Stroytransgaz signed a US$71 million contract for the construction of this section.[22] However this contract was annulled at the beginning of 2009 and it was re-tendered. From Kilis, a 15-kilometre (9.3 mi) long pipeline with a diameter of 12 inches (300 mm) would connect the pipeline with the Turkish grid thus allowing the Turkish grid to be supplied via the Syrian grid even before completing the Homs–Aleppo segment.

Connection with Iraq
In September 2004, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon agreed to connect the Arab Gas Pipeline with Iraq's gas grid to allow Iraq to export gas to Europe.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Gas_Pipeline#Syria.E2.80.93Turkey_connection

This whole Syria thing is about protecting our/our allies interests. It has ziltch to do with the gassing of people during Syria's civil war. It's really all about the protection our own & TPTB's interests. Why the dog & pony show about those poor people who were gassed during a civil war?

[great white snark]

136. Such "sources." Wasn't there a time when you were impartial?

Cannot believe this coming from you.

[kpete]

138. never

impartial
about war


peace is the answer,
kp

[rocktivity]

139. Candidate for this year's "You Call This NEWS?" awards

I never got quite got the concept of "stop killing your civilians or we'll kill them for you." What makes gassing them more humanitarian than bombing them?

To paraphrase that Watergate guy, it's hard to go wrong when you follow the money.


rocktivity

[L0oniX]

140. 15 hijackers on 911 were Saudi's and we didn't attack Saudi Arabia. Well ain't that special.

Yeah ...it's about oil.