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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJuan Cole: How Putin Saved Obama, Congress and the EU from Further Embarrassing themselves on Syria
How Putin Saved Obama, Congress and the European Union from Further Embarrassing themselves on Syria
Posted on 09/10/2013 by Juan Cole
Secretary of State John Kerry was asked at a press conference in London Monday morning if there was anything that could forestall a US missile attack on Damascus, and he replied off the cuff that Syria could surrender its chemical weapons stockpile to the international community within a week.
Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov pounced on Kerrys comment, abruptly announcing that Russia would see what it could do. Lavrov said, If the establishment of international control over chemical weapons in that country would allow avoiding strikes, we will immediately start working with Damascus . . . We are calling on the Syrian leadership to not only agree on placing chemical weapons storage sites under international control, but also on its subsequent destruction and fully joining the treaty on prohibition of chemical weapons,
Syrias portly Foreign Minister Walid Muallim clearly knows how to chow down while the meal is still hot, and he wasted no time embracing Lavrovs suggestion. Muallim said, The Syrian leadership welcomes the Russian initiative because of its own eagerness to preserve the lives of Syrian citizens and ensure the security of the country, and given our confidence in the desire of the Russian leadership to prevent an attack on our country.
...
He can now possibly avoid the most embarrassing defeat in congress of a president on a major international issue since that body told Woodrow Wilson where he could stick his League of Nations.
Likewise, Putins proposal ironically helped soothe troubled waters in the European Union. German Chancellor Angela Merkel was by all accounts absolutely furious at Spain, Britain and France for issuing a statement at the G20 meeting in Moscow supportive of President Obamas condemnation of Syria for chemcial weapons use (though they did not back a military attack on Syria). Merkel reprimanded Spain in particular for not waiting for a joint European Union statement. (For Spain to defy Germany at this point in time is rather like a deeply indebted gambler being rude to the casino owner). Spain for its part only talked a good game, going on to say that Spanish law forbade the Spanish military from in any way being involved with the US assault on Damascus, since it is not in self-defense.. It is not clear what Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy was supporting at the G20, if he thinks military action so illegal that Spain has to avoid having anything to do with it. And, of course, the British Parliament had rebuked Prime Minister David Cameron for considering joining the US in air strikes on Syria.
...
The Russian initiative is not attractive because it seems practical or likely to be swiftly implemented but because it allows everyone involved to save face. Obama can look statesmanlike. He is already taking credit for Putins move, saying it would not have come about without his own saber-rattling.
...
http://www.juancole.com/2013/09/congress-embarrassing-themselves.html
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Heart-warming.
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Can "Uncle Vlad" work on that one, too?
He is the patron of the other party that is responsible, too: Iran.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Russia, Iran, and Israel. Did you forget that?
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)What's next...agreeing with Palin to "let Allah sort it out?"
Keep laying down with the dogs FTW!
no kidding.
It's a bird! It's a plane! It's PutinMan! Able to leap over human rights with a single bound!
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Best photoshop ever. Wish I knew who did it to give them credit.
Sid
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)will be if they cannot go to war...it's almost funny.
Kerry makes an off-the cuff remark..I can imagine Obama, and Hegel are berating him-"Look what you've done". Now we might not have war."
and the response I've read is "Can you believe anything Putin or Assad said?"
DUH, take a look at what Obama said 5 years ago...
brush
(53,778 posts)ellenrr
(3,864 posts)the President made more outreach on this issue than on any previous -
such as public option, or hands off Social Security-
was because he wants peace...
brush
(53,778 posts)I don't think the President wants to do the Syrian strike at all but being PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND COMMAMDER-IN-CHIEF OF EMPIRE and all that entails demands continual war to quiet the media war drummers and the congressional corporate puppets of the military industrial complex, plus of course, keeping MIC coffers full. His flipping of the script to turn the decision over to Congress, IMHO, shows that he's trying to find a way out of intervention but he has to maintain the facade of being for it, same thing with Kerry and Rice united front and all. And remember, his reputation for taking out the bad guys like Ben Ladin, Khaddaffi and to some degree Mubarak goes before him. So he has that going for him by keeping the pressure on Syria.
I also understand that he and Putin (who all the Obama haters are now giving credit for the idea) discussed the surrender of Syria's chem weapons not just at the recent G20 conference but during the summer also.
I think the President really doesn't care who gets credit but a solution seems to have been arrived at without a shot being fired. That's how you use the power of the US. Assad blinked, partly because what happened to Ben Ladin is playing on his mind.
Funny how that keeps happening with this president except in Ben Ladin's case, thankfully.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I'm about sick of hearing how Sec. of State John Kerry, "Forced Syria to give up her chemical weapons." He answered a question about that possibility, and as soon as he realized his answer could be construed as an acceptance of that option (an option which would also take airstrikes off the table) he tried to take it back. Happily, by then it was too late.
I'm pretty sure the threat of war with Syria is past, but that doesn't mean our government wouldn't welcome an excuse to go right back to the brink. Lets just hope no one (like the Syrian rebels) gives them such an excuse.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Those giving Kerry & Obama credit for this are delusional.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Kerry fumbled, Putin recovered and scored. Yet, we are supposed to give the points to the administration?
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)that devotes all of one paragraph to Putin's pro-Assad motives.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)I'm sure you are qualified.
treestar
(82,383 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)President Obama was presented with the same plan at the recent G-20 meeting. He brushed it off as not acceptable.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Why veto that?
He didn't do it until there was a threat from the US.
Typical of thugs like him.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)There is always more than one point of view.
pampango
(24,692 posts)On Monday the idea appeared to emerge from a slip by US secretary of state John Kerry, which was then seized on by Moscow.
But in TV interviews Obama insisted that he had first raised the idea at the G20 summit as his administration scrambled to claim credit for the Russian deal and insisted Syria was responding to US pressure. "It is unlikely that we would have arrived at that point without a credible military threat," Obama told CNN.
Now Obama's version of events has been backed by Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov. "The issue was discussed," Peskov told Reuters. He would not say who raised the issue or give other details.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/syria-crisis-iran-backs-russia-chemical-weapons-plan-live
This would also explain why Russia agreed to the proposal so quickly. It had already been discussed in St Petersburg.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"The Russian initiative is not attractive because it seems practical or likely to be swiftly implemented but because it allows everyone involved to save face. Obama can look statesmanlike. He is already taking credit for Putins move, saying it would not have come about without his own saber-rattling."
How did Putin know Kerry was going to say what he did, and why would Putin jump at the offer?
Did Kerry say it so that Putin could jump in and save Obama"?
Was Putin searching for a way to save Obama?
Here's the reality:
This only happened because of Kerry's comment and Russia's response. If, Obama needed saving, Putin certainly would have exploited that situation. He has been doing that with every situation. He had absolutely no reason to give Obama an out, and he certainly had no reason to put Assad on the spot (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023630685). He could have ignored Kerry's statement and let things proceed as before if he believed, as Cole does, that Obama needed saving. Putin knew the deal. He was under pressure to do something other than obstruct. That is why he jumped on Kerry's offer.
Obama has already proven to the majority of people who have an official say that Assad did it. Members of Congress and the international community have condemned Assad.
Regardless of how Congress votes, members have condemned Assad. They agree with the assessment regarding Assad's use of chemicals. That's why you have members who don't support the President's approach offering their own proposals, and any way you slice it, those proposals are ultimatums.
There is also the UN, which even before today's developments, was prepared to act after its report. The statements by members of the G-20 and the EU means the international community was not going to let up. More countries comdemned Assad today.
jsr
(7,712 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Notice that no one is asking "why did Putin do this?"
It's just "Putin RAWKS."
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Can you link to that?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"Putin saves Syria, international peace and stability, and the Obama administration itself from Obama's crude, clumsy march to war with a brilliant diplomatic maneuver."
And the same folks openly scoff at the notion that anything the US did or said had anything to do with Putin's eagerness to pursue this diplomatic resolution.
Putin the savior rescues us all from the villain, Barack Obama.
See, e.g.,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023635240#post30
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)I never saw any savior rescuing bits either nor Barack as the villain. Your take on this sounds like a Marvel comic book.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)diplomacy prevail and vastly superior intellect allowed him to defeat the intellectually deficient villains Obama and Kerry with one press release.
All of humanity is in his debt. He saved us from war and from Obama.
All praise Putin! America should be so lucky to have a leader so strong, so intelligent, so committed to diplomacy and preventing war, and so dedicated to ridding the world of chemical weapons and championing human rights!
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)I was right.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)So, they really are invested in their childish fantasy wherein the authority figure is one of pure evil who wants nothing more than to spread war in order to benefit the plutocratic class.
But, this authority figure is the classic archetype of 'he with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.'
Not only is he evil, but also stupid .
So, the enemy of their enemy is their friend, hence the Putin love.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Please try this again with somebody else, I have no interest in what you are blathering on about. Have a joyous day.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Instead of looking at it as a gift, they're lighting their hair on fire because they won't have the satisfaction of killing in the name of their own self-righteousness.
If this works, it keeps us out of another stupid war in the Middle East and denies the MIC another blank check.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I haven't seen anybody here say that they hope this fails.
But keep spewing those memes, if you wish.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I haven't seen it, but proceed.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Who knows when the chance may come again? The seventy percent plus of Americans who don't want war with Syria will just have to suck it up and go to war anyway.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)If not, that is one of the saddest statements about going to war I have heard since Iraq.
So the chemical weapons is just a pretext for violating our UN treaty?
Fuck it, just firebomb Assad's palace. Hell, fire bomb all of Damascus. That way you can be sure that you 'got him' and crippled Hezbollah's chief ally.
WTF has happened to DU that some are agitating for a war that will kill thousands of civilians?
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Guess I should have made that more clear.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I should have been far more exact in my meaning.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Too much much money invested, long-term planning (since 2001), and dick-waving from too many people. France is furious at being out-witted and is going to present one of those Saddaam-Hussein-style resolutions to the UN that if Syria so much as sneezes during prayer-time, it's bed-time for Gonzo and the US is waging a huge fight with Russia because Russia wants "the International Atomic Agency to analyze risks if military strikes hit a nuclear plant near Damascus" immediately. And yesterday the Ministry of Foreign Affairs submitted official paperwork to the UN with what they say is evidence that videos of the Damascus gas attack were "fabricated" in advance. They also requested that the UN hold the US responsible for any unlawful threat to use force against Syria and stop the US from going any further.
Just looking at the latest headlines on my twitter feed isn't inspiring much confidence
- Kerry: Risk of not acting is much higher than the risk of acting
- Kerry: "The use of force should absolutely not be off the table" LIVE UPDATES
- BREAKING: US 'won't wait long' for Syria chem weapons removal - Kerry
- URGENT: French draft resolution on Syria chem weapons unacceptable - Lavrov
BUT, just BUT, dare I hope?
- France, UK & US agree to explore Russian proposal on Syria chem weapon destruction
- URGENT: UK, France, US to table UN resolution on #Syria later on Tuesday - Cameron
- DEVELOPING: Russia to propose UN Security Council declaration, supporting Syria chem arms handover
THEN, just now
BREAKING: Syria chem arms handover will work only if US calls off strike Putin to RT http://on.rt.com/2cbbe5
Fast and furious. My feeling that Obama is at odds with several in his administration, that there's a huge split, keeps growing stronger.
I hope it works.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023636040
White House Takes Credit For Syrias Apparent Concession (updated)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023636265
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)He was just patient and took his chance. He waited until the House was certain to embarrassingly vote against Obama, and even the Senate looked close. None of our allies supported a military solution.
Putin waited for that uncomfortable moment, and Kerry's comment, to end this. All the other actors (Assad, congress, White House and EU) were in such uncomfortable positions they leaped at it. Assad is preserved, the rebels must surely be demoralized, Putin gets a boost at home and internationally, all in exchange for chemical weapons that weren't useful anyway.
When people write geopolitical history books, this will undoubtedly be a case study in masterful diplomacy and patience.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)from the madness of the evil US imperialists.
Amazing how a certain crowd is willing to fluff Putin but will refuse to entertain the notion that Obama and Kerry are anything but bumbling warmongering troglodytes.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)worshiping them.
To be fair, they earned it. They came out of this looking bailed out by Putin of all people.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Putin bailed him out because . . .?
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)and potential defeat in the senate in 2 days. He waited until Obama (not to mention Boehner and Reid) was at his weakest, most anxious position and offered a way to avoid it.
Patience is an old and very difficult strategy.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)What else will he say, that Obama is a liar?
It wasn't even mentioned before yesterday.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)does not mean that everything you don't understand is false.
Just as an FYI: stuff gets done in diplomacy behind closed doors before being announced as a general rule.
treestar
(82,383 posts)To supposedly be a liberal but in this instance wanting to float the PM or President or whatever-he-is of Russia as the person who handled this the best? It would have never happened had Putin and his nation done the right thing to start with. They prop up Assad so they can avoid a pipeline that would hurt their European oil monopoly. Too funny, liberals are usually against war over pipelines. Much worse, Putin allowed a gas attack over pipelines.
Here's the Heroic One:
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)The "coalition of the willing" was reduced to one pair of cowboy boots.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)However, his agreement to pressure Syria to give up its chemical weapons is a good thing.
Regardless of the opinion of any of the players involved in this scenario, this was a diplomatic move that kept both the bombs from dropping and the West from embarassment over not being able to intervene.
Putin's an asshole, but his government's decision to put pressure on Syria made a scenario for dealing with Assad's chemical weapons viable, something even the SoS didn't think would happen.
It would be utterly fantastic for the personality-driven folks to not worry about who "won." The bombs are temporarily averted, and no matter who kept it from happening, it's a win for the whole region.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Just now from RT
Published time: September 10, 2013 17:00
Speaking exclusively to RT, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Syrias chemical arms handover will only work if the US and its allies renounce the use of force against Damascus.
"Certainly, this is all reasonable, it will function and will work out, only if the US and those who support it on this issue pledge to renounce the use of force, because it is difficult to make any country Syria or any other country in the world to unilaterally disarm if there is military action against it under consideration," President Putin told exclusively to RT on Tuesday.
Putin said the disarmament of Syrias chemical weapons had been extensively discussed by experts and politicians.
The Russian president said that he and President Barack Obama had indeed discussed such a possibility on the sidelines of the G20 summit in St. Petersburg last week.
It was agreed, Putin said, to instruct Secretary of State (John Kerry) and Foreign Minister (Sergey Lavrov) to get in touch and try to move this idea forward.
...
Despite voicing some serious skepticism, Western countries supported the move, stressing the importance of Assad fulfilling the agreement and surrendering the weapons stockpiles.
...
In response to Russias proposal, Obama said he was willing to absolutely put on pause a military strike on Syria if Assad accepts the offer.
...
http://rt.com/news/putin-syria-chemical-weapons-669/
Little Star
(17,055 posts)But must acknowledge that he saved the US further embarrassment on Syria. Plus, I am happy that he granted Snowden temp asylum.
Personally, I use the smell test on each individual situation. I agree with Juan Cole on this issue.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Tuesday, September 10
15:32 GMT: With regards to the size of a US strike on Syria, Sec. Kerry told lawmakers in the House that the White House wants a limited strike that would pale in comparison to other recent military operations. "It's not Iraq, its not Iran, its not a years war, he said.
I have said that this will be meaningful, it will be serious, the Assad regime will feel it, Kerry said,
but compared to Iraq, Kosovo, Libyaits small. It is not any of those things.
16:45 GMT: Moscow will propose a draft statement by the chairman of the UN Security Council, supporting the initiative to transfer Syrias chemical weapons to international control, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.
The issue was discussed during a phone conversation between Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and his French counterpart, Laurent Fabius.
(Lavrov) said that Russia, on its part, is submitting a draft statement for the UN Security Councils chairman, welcoming the
initiative and calling on the UN Secretary General, the general director of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, and all the interested parties to make efforts to facilitate the implementation of this proposal, the ministrys statement said.
During the call, Lavrov said described as unacceptable a French proposal to adopt a Security Council resolution blaming President Assads government for the chemical weapons attack.
17:00 GMT: Putin to RT: Syria chem arms handover will work only if US calls off strike
17:15 GMT: Moscow has called an emergency closed-door meeting at the UN Security Council to discuss its chemical weapon removal plan. The round-table will begin at 8 p.m. GMT.
17:20 GMT: Barack Obama and Francois Hollande have refused to rule out the possibility of a military strike against Syria, following a telephone conversation.
"The heads of state highlighted their preference for a diplomatic solution but they also underlined the importance of keeping all options open," said a statement from Hollande's press office.
All items, (except 'Putin to RT:Syria chem arms handover will work only if US calls off strike' which is under Breaking News) here http://rt.com/news/syria-crisis-live-updates-047/