"Kerry said the so-called Russian proposal emerged from talks..."

[ProSense]

Kerry said the so-called Russian proposal emerged from talks between the president and Putin and Kerry and his counterparts that were happening before Monday's round of public statements.

"This is not something that suddenly emerged. Though it did publicly," Kerry said.

The alternative explanation: Kerry spoke off the cuff and Russia took him up on it.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/syria-crisis-iran-backs-russia-chemical-weapons-plan-live#block-522f39a3e4b0c9a06407daf0

White House Takes Credit For Syria’s Apparent Concession
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023636265

[bobduca]

1. "This is not something that suddenly emerged. Though it did publicly"

That it suddenly emerged publicly was all planned right Pro? It wasn't like it was a

Political Gaffe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_gaffe

[ProSense]

3. No,

"This is not something that suddenly emerged. Though it did publicly"

That it suddenly emerged publicly was all planned right Pro? It wasn't like it was a Political Gaffe

...it was an honest answer to a question. The fact that it was already being discussed doesn't change that.

Kerry said something, and within hours, Russia proposed that Syria accept, which it did, and then the UN signed on. By the end of the day, China and Iran were also on board.

The proposal didn't even have a chance to be a rumor. It was suggested, proposed, accepted, confirmed and agreed to before Kerry got off the plane.

[bobduca]

4. I don't doubt for one minute that something like Russia's proposal was discussed at the summit

Help me out with your timeline here, you are saying that the deal was accepted before the gaffe?

[ProSense]

5. Wait,

"Help me out with your timeline here, you are saying that the deal was accepted before the gaffe? "

...what "gaffe"? Are you implying that the statement is both bad and good? I mean, what part of stating that if Assad turned over his stock pile, it would avert strikes is a "gaffe"?

Kerry spoke to Larov about the proposal before and after the comment.

Syria conflict: France to float tough UN resolution

France will put a resolution to the UN Security Council to place Syria's chemical weapons under international control so they can be destroyed, Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius says.

He said the resolution would threaten "extremely serious" consequences if Syria breached its conditions.

<...>

There have been few details so far of Russia's plan, but Mr Lavrov said in Moscow that it was "preparing a concrete proposal which will be presented to all interested sides, including the US... a workable, specific, concrete plan".

Mr Muallem said: "We are convinced that the position of those striving for peace is much stronger than that of those trying to fuel war."

Mr Lavrov said he had spoken to US Secretary of State John Kerry on the telephone about the plan on Monday.

Mr Lavrov said the Russian initiative was "not a purely Russian initiative... It grew out of contacts we've had with the Americans".

Russian President Vladimir Putin and US President Barack Obama discussed the idea on the sidelines of a G20 summit last week, Mr Putin's spokesman said on Tuesday.

- more -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24031203

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023636040

[bobduca]

11. The part where the state dept. said it was rhetoric and backed off of it

The part where now its being annointed as political acumen by the loyalist brigade instead of an unintentional reveal of behind the scenes diplomatic efforts.

[ProSense]

17. Actually,

"The part where the state dept. said it was rhetoric and backed off of it"

...everyone can read that the State Department said the part about Assad not doing it was rhetorical, not the condition for avoiding a strike. That interpretation is just silly. Why would the admistration strike if Assad actually agrees to turn over the weapons to have them destroyed?

"The part where now its being annointed as political acumen by the loyalist brigade instead of an unintentional reveal of behind the scenes diplomatic efforts."

Ah, the alternate reality that dismisses the fact that everyone involved in the discussion, including Putin, state that the proposal was part of ongoing talks.

[bobduca]

21. then why bring it up with a reporter as a response to a question?

Keep spinning your Revisionist History, it clearly gives your life meaning.

[ProSense]

24. Why don't you read what I wrote again

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

"Keep spinning your Revisionist History, it clearly gives your life meaning."

...and try to understand the point instead of getting personal? Here's what I said:

...everyone can read that the State Department said the part about Assad not doing it was rhetorical, not the condition for avoiding a strike. That interpretation is just silly. Why would the admistration strike if Assad actually agrees to turn over the weapons to have them destroyed?

You asked: why bring it up?

Kerry was responding to a question, and as I said, the State Department said the rhetorical part was about Assad not complying. The conditions for avoiding a strike stands.

Still, given that this has pushed another attempt to resolve this diplomatically with all parties on board for now, what's the point of insisting that, against Kerry's comment, the State Department's point and the Russians, this wasn't the goal?

[trumad]

19. Dude---if you're going to just speculate...

and you're doing it with ProSense---be prepared to have your ass handed to you.

[bobduca]

22. Dude

Yeah dude I like totally lost this fight with the wall of blue links, she's like totally pwned me and shit mang!

Go plonk yourself back to the bog.

[KittyWampus]

6. Just because you are personally ignorant of Kerry's diplomacy over last several years doesn't mean

He wasn't doing anything. It just means you are ignorant of what was being done:


Lavrov, Kerry 'Agree On Need' For Syria Peace Conference

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says he and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry have agreed on the need to start a Syrian peace conference in Geneva as soon as possible.

Lavrov made the remarks after talks in Washington on August 9 with Kerry.

Lavrov said he and Kerry agreed they should meet again by the end of August to prepare for the proposed Geneva talks.

Kerry said Russia and the United States needed to find ways to work around their differences on Syria’s civil war, and to make progress on missile defense, Afghanistan, and nuclear disputes with Iran and North Korea.

The talks came as the political mood between Moscow and Washington hit a low point – with U.S. President Barack Obama earlier this week canceling an upcoming meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

http://www.rferl.org/content/syria-lavrov-kerry-geneva/25071543.html

[ProSense]

7. May: New Diplomatic Push to End Civil War in Syria

New Diplomatic Push to End Civil War in Syria

By STEVEN LEE MYERS and RICK GLADSTONE

ROME — As new reports of violence flowed from Syria, Secretary of State John Kerry telephoned leaders in Europe and the Middle East on Wednesday to lay the groundwork for a conference between rebels and the Syrian government, sponsored by the United States and Russia, that he hoped would begin within a month.

Mr. Kerry and his Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov, announced a new diplomatic effort to end the two-year-old Syrian conflict after intense discussions on Tuesday in Moscow. Mr. Kerry then flew to Rome, where aides said that on Thursday he would announce a 25 percent increase in American humanitarian aid to Syrian civilians whose lives have been upended by the crisis. The additional aid, according to a State Department statement, would bring the American total to about $510 million.

The American ambassador to Syria, Robert S. Ford, who accompanied Mr. Kerry during his talks in Moscow, flew to Istanbul to press representatives of the Syrian opposition to agree to talks with an envoy of the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad. There were initial indications, at least, that both sides were not opposed to the idea.

Syria’s official news agency, SANA, reported it with the headline “Lavrov, Kerry: Negotiations Are Vital Tool to Reach Settlement.”

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/world/middleeast/syria-diplomacy-kerry-aid.html

[blm]

2. Corpmedia always goes for the breathlessly reported alternative

so they can keep skewing Syria matters against THIS president and THIS Sec of State.

[1-Old-Man]

8. These Asshats will claim credit when someone else cuts a Juicy fart

Let's face facts, it was the Russians and French that pulled Obama's nuts out of the fire - and you'll see clowns claiming it was some grand strategy (the real morons call it 9-dimensional chess) by Obama; like I said, they pulled his nuts out of the fire on this one.

[ProSense]

9. Apparently,

"These Asshats will claim credit when someone else cuts a Juicy fart

Let's face facts, it was the Russians and French that pulled Obama's nuts out of the fire - and you'll see clowns claiming it was some grand strategy (the real morons call it 9-dimensional chess) by Obama; like I said, they pulled his nuts out of the fire on this one."

....that upsets you. Russia is likely trying to save Assad's ass, and he's not going to get help from France in stalling for time.

The French foreign ministry says it would accept Russia's offer under three condition:

1.Bashar al-Assad must immediately pledge to place his entire chemical weapons arsenal under international control and allow it to be destroyed;
2.This operation must be carried out on the basis of a binding Security Council resolution within a short timeframe and with severe consequences if he doesn’t uphold his commitments;
3. Those responsible for the chemical massacre on August 21 must not go unpunished. The matter must therefore be referred to the International Criminal Court.

In a statement the French embassy in the US said: "We’re now demanding specific, prompt and verifiable commitments on the part of the Syrian regime."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/10/syria-crisis-iran-backs-russia-chemical-weapons-plan-live#block-522eef45e4b005df22aa308d

[treestar]

16. ODS in the extreme

Why didn't the Russians do this earlier, then?

[1-Old-Man]

23. Same reason we all aren't very wealthy

Could it be that the thought did not occur to them earlier? Its sort of why we aren't all very wealthy. It generally takes a while and very few of us have figured out how to do it at birth. The thought, or knowledge how, didn't pop into our little brain-pans until sometime later. Time flies like an arrow and you can't be at the target the same time you release the string.

[trumad]

20. Only ass hats I see are ---- well you.

[mwrguy]

12. Obama is allowing Putin & Assad to save face

After getting totally owned

[bobduca]

13. How Gracious of Him

[mwrguy]

14. It really is, gracious and diplomatic

Just what we've come to expect.

[bobduca]

15. Hooray!

America truly is Exceptional and Great!

[orenbus]

18. President Obama is the one that is saving face on this one

Everyone that looks at this objectively without bias knows his reputation would have been wrecked if the vote ever went to the House as I type this according to Think Progress whip count that has documented links of statements by members of the house has No or Leaning No at 238 and Yes or Leaning Yes at 42 and Undecided at 153. The authorization for a strike in Syria would have gone down in history as a fail of epic proportions, there is no denying that. After the authorization the only other move if the President wanted to move forward with the strikes is to do it in spite of the vote and public opinion which would have brought about a constitutional crisis. I know people are happy that there looks to be a diplomatic solution out of this mess and they should be hopeful, but lets keep it real, the President was fighting a losing battle here, and the Russians did him a favor.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/09/02/2561371/congress-support-military-action-syria-thinkprogress-whip-count/

[1-Old-Man]

25. Yesterday it was reported on Link-TV that his foreign policy rating was at an all time low

So I really don't know what you meant by "his reputation would have been wrecked". Hell, it already is. It didn't take a vote by Congress (which couldn't have harmed their reputation any worse than it already is) to do it either. It was his own immediate call to war, the clear propaganda that has rained down on us like a terrible southern hurricane for the last week or so, and not a little bit of John Kerry's two day extravaganza under the Dome that did the wrecking.

[ProSense]

26. Welcome to DU, but

Assad knows he screwed up, and Putin is trying to buy him time.

Assad admitted to bombing area after chemical attack took place.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023637203

[Logical]

27. LOL, good one! n-t