So I'm expected to believe Obama never intended to attack Syria?

[whatchamacallit]

Really?

[jsr]

1. He never wanted to cut Social Security either

He just said multiple times he wanted to do it.

[sharp_stick]

2. He still hasn't done that either n/t

[Hydra]

25. The Republicans wouldn't accept his offer

I hate when bad people save us from people we elected, like Putin just did.

[sharp_stick]

29. Funny how that works

every damned time people think they've finally figured out a way to blame Obama for some atrocity they have to run and thank some shithead like Boehner or Putin to save face.

[Hydra]

31. What did the President do in either case to stop himself? n/t

[forestpath]

27. Not for lack of trying.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

58. Plus it's unlikely that he is going to refrain from trying again.

For him to get Republicans on board, he just needs to sweeten the pot.

[kelliekat44]

70. If there is anyone here whose current SS payments would be cut by Obama, please raise your hand.

And be honest about it. You know this was not going to happen.

[avaistheone1]

91. But does his best to.

Setting up the Catfood Commission was such a brilliant compassionate idea.

[madokie]

80. Knowing full well when he said it that the pukes weren't going to have anything to do with it

because he said he was for it. Don't you see how that works. Obama is a lot smarter than a lot of people here. He seen early on that the pukes were going to be against any and all things he's for so the best thing in that case is to say he is for something that he really isn't. The end result is he wins they lose.
I see whats going on plain as day, why some can't is beyond me.
Haters are gonna hate, simple as that

[pjt7]

3. Warships are still there

troops are in Jordan. Patriot missles are in Turkey, Israel

We are still funding, training & arming "rebels"

If a major war is avoided, that's a great thing, but Let's keep it real.

[Lifelong Dem]

48. U.S. Still Hasn't Armed Syrian Rebels

In June, the White House authorized the Central Intelligence Agency to help arm moderate fighters battling the Assad regime, a signal to Syrian rebels that the cavalry was coming. Three months later, they are still waiting.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324202304579051280341316034.html

[morningfog]

4. It was public pressure that forced him to go to congress.

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

They were going to strike without congress, but then the UK vote and opposition at home made him take the case to congress, where he has been bleeding support.

It was the opposition to strikes that forced the delay, the delay that gave breathing room to reach this possible deal.

We still have a ways to go, but it is looking hopeful. It would be a good outcome, but it was not the plan two weeks ago.

[pjt7]

18. +

Agreed

[OnyxCollie]

22. +1. nt

[leftstreet]

23. +1

[CrispyQ]

26. This. ^^^

[MNBrewer]

36. Obama planned the UK vote

it worked out just as he wanted

[brush]

72. Maybe, maybe not

I don't think the President wants to do the Syrian strike at all but being PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND COMMAMDER-IN-CHIEF OF EMPIRE demands continual war to quiet the media war drummers and keep MIC coffers full. His flipping of the script to turn the decision over to Congress, IMHO, shows that he's trying to find a way out of intervention but he has to maintain the facade of being for it, same thing with Kerry and Rice — united front and all. And remember, his reputation for taking out the bad guys like Ben Ladin, Khaddaffi and to some degree Mubarak goes before him.

I also understand that he and Putin (who all the Obama haters are now giving credit for the idea) discussed the surrender of Syria's chem weapons not just at the recent G20 conference but during the summer also.

I think the President really doesn't care who gets credit but a solution seems to have been arrived at without a shot being fired. Assad blinked, partly because what happened to Ben Ladin is playing on his mind.

Funny how that keeps happening with this president — except in Ben Ladin's case, thankfully.

[woo me with science]

77. +1

Lots of desperate attempts to rewrite history going on...

[Whisp]

83. phfffft.

yah, Obama always listens to the loudest hair on fire screamer for advices.

he logs on here at DU 4 times a day to get tips on how to be Prezzy.

[morningfog]

85. Who said anything about DU?

It was hugely unpopular in the polls and Congress and the UK. Laugh, laugh, laugh.

[Javaman]

89. ??

I guess national opinion polls mean nothing to you.

[Javaman]

88. +1 nt

[sharp_stick]

5. No he intended to do it

and that intention is the only reason the Russians and Syrians decided to try diplomacy.

[whatchamacallit]

8. You wouldn't know it from the deranged victory lap being taken on DU today.

[sharp_stick]

12. Deranged?

I guess that depends on the roles being taken over the last couple of weeks.

[L0oniX]

15. Well ...the church collection plate was getting a little low.

[PowerToThePeople]

32. I have not made any donations to DLC types in a long time

I still get the emails though. I need to un-subscribe. I do not know who I would give to these days. Warren and Wyden maybe? Sanders? None of them are running for any office that I can vote for in my district. There is an absolute vacuum of people with views and actions which I can support.

[Demeter]

40. Because eveybody in office wants to be a war criminal, like Kissinger

sheesh!

Yes, he intended to go to war
yes, he still wants to, because that's what his puppet masters want
yes, it's a wickedly stupid idea
yes, he was saved by Kerry's sarcasm and Putin's opportunism

and no, he doesn't think it will work out, so he's tepid at best to the idea of a diplomatic solution, and will probably trip over his own feet trying to make it not work.

And yes, I am grateful to ANYONE who stops this handbasket from careening straight to hell: friend, foe, jester, anyone.

[99th_Monkey]

75. +100!! nt

[leftstreet]

6. Truth is: Public Opinion won

Now the politicians are all scurrying around to save face

[L0oniX]

17. I wish so very much that I could believe that. n/t

[Dawgs]

37. Not sure it's over yet. Hope so. n/t

[Demeter]

42. At least, Public Opinion won the first round

but we've been there before.

[robinlynne]

43. in the Uk, you mean.

[leftstreet]

44. ...and the US

and God knows how many other citizens around the world

[IDemo]

57. correlation != causation

I seriously doubt poll numbers or AlterNet articles are behind this.

[woo me with science]

79. For now.

The MIC and their politicians are not finished here. Not by a long shot.

[JoePhilly]

7. No, the stick only works if you

Are willing to use it.

Russia and Syria are coming to the table because they now know he's willing.

Obama could have launched strikes over a week ago, just as much of DU predicted.

By staying firm, Obama will very likily get what he wanted and not have to use strikes.

Win win. Except for the perpetually outraged.

[CountAllVotes]

13. in the words of TR

Speak softly and carry a big stick ...

[JoePhilly]

47. ... and be ready to use it.

I don't think the President was bluffing.

[NCTraveler]

24. I do think...

I do think that having such a strong military and being willing to use it is a huge tool to have by your side diplomatically. I can't imagine being Assad last week. Hearing the things coming out of Washington. It has to have had an effect on his thought process. I also think that very little coming out of Washington the last few weeks has been for American consumption. The verbiage was for Syria, the UN, Russia, and China. People think that when Obama or an administration official speaks that it is meant for the American public. That is not the case. I think a part of the play was to rattle cages and see who is willing to play diplomatically, all while keeping missile strikes planned and ready. Did they plan on this possible deal with the UN? Probably not. Did they rattle cages and hold off on sending missiles long enough to see if some other resolution would come up? Yes. They deserve credit for that.

"By staying firm, Obama will very likely get what he wanted and not have to use strikes."

I think a problem many of us have is that we have no clue what Obama wants. Not sure if Obama knows what he wants.

[JoePhilly]

53. I think ...

Obama is always, always, thinking long term.

I remember back when he debated McCain and said he'd go into Pakistan on his own to get OBL, if we had intel, and Pakistan could not or would not help ... and its exactly what he did.

He said using Chemical Weapons would change his position regarding direct military action. They used them. He then started the wheels for strikes. And I think he was not bluffing.

Those weapons need to come off the table. And while its taken some time. It looks like they are coming off. That's what he wanted, and he was willing to do it diplomatically, or by force.

The American people get caught up in the media hype each and every time. The media was wrong about Iraq. They were wrong about this. They always focus on the most sensationalized aspects and they miss the nuance and detail.

[ocpagu]

9. The US government has developed this modus operandi...

... in which re-writing history to make it "en rose" and creating official conspiracy theories (such as "all this international crisis, including the British Parliament vote and the humilliation of Cameron was planned since the start) for the gullible is ok.

Sad, really.

[Hydra]

28. Orwellian

It shows just how narcissistic our leaders are. They'll through everything overboard in the rush to come out smelling like a rose.

That really shows who they work for in the most compelling way- themselves.

[TwilightGardener]

10. I don't believe it was a bluff, no.

[L0oniX]

11. Yep ...just like you were not expected to believe that he put SS on the table. n/t

[KurtNYC]

14. It is Pee-Wee Herman diplomacy.

[Hydra]

30. bwah!

[Adrahil]

16. Nope. I hope he DID intend to....

... because in order for a threat of force to be effective, it must be serious.

[Capt. Obvious]

19. Obama works in mysterious ways

[whatchamacallit]

21. Haha!

[jsr]

35. Your only hope is to put your faith in Him.

[99th_Monkey]

76. +100!! nt

[polichick]

20. He never liked Wall Street either, and really wanted single payer healthcare.

[dorkulon]

33. Nah. He just has the ability to change his mind in light of a better option.

So, that's good.

[Orsino]

34. You can believe that, or not...

...and at the same time recognize that several concurrent chess games have been and still are going on. It's early yet to start talking about Syria in the past tense.

[kiawah]

41. Chess games??

I'm thinking lotto....

[Orsino]

93. Little in the situation looks accidental.

A statement promising a complete about-face isn't just luck.

There's Russia's special relationship with Syria, and Iran's, Putin's ego and hatred of Islam, and the obvious desirability of Syria's signing onto a chem weapons ban. I don't know what sort of promises Putin had to make, but I doubt any of this could truly be called accidental.

But if so, I doubt we'll ever know.

[Avalux]

38. You can believe whatever you wish.

[Cryptoad]

39. How funny

President Obama has Punked:

the GOP
the Russians
the Syrians
and all the Obama Haters.

Thank you Mr President!

[whatchamacallit]

50. You have unlocked Delusion+1

Congratulations.

[madrchsod]

45. you can believe anything you want

maybe he did and maybe he did`t but i`m pretty sure that we may never know.

[Gman]

46. It's called brinkmanship

Read about John Foster Dulles. He may have eventually had to attack. But because this tactic worked he likely does not have to.

[Marrah_G]

49. First you have to learn how to not get dizzy when spinning in circles

[pnwmom]

51. No, you're clearly not. Why would you think that? n/t

[orenbus]

52. Obama would have lost the House vote

Everyone that looks at this objectively without bias knows his reputation would have been wrecked if the vote ever went to the House as I type this according to Think Progress whip count that has documented links of statements by members of the house has No or Leaning No at 238 and Yes or Leaning Yes at 42 and Undecided at 153. The authorization for a strike in Syria would have gone down in history as a fail of epic proportions, there is no denying that. After the authorization the only other move if the President wanted to move forward with the strikes is to do it in spite of the vote and public opinion which would have brought about a constitutional crisis. I know people are happy that there looks to be a diplomatic solution out of this mess and they should be hopeful, but lets keep it real, the President was fighting a losing battle here, and the Russians did him a favor.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/09/02/2561371/congress-support-military-action-syria-thinkprogress-whip-count/

[whatchamacallit]

54. Yep.

[Avalux]

56. Sorry. Losing the House vote would be a victory for Obama.

Getting a bunch of Republicans to vote NO against military action? It's so ironic I can barely contain myself - the neocons are confused and agitated at this 'black is white' maneuver.

Obama's insistence that he would take military action in spite of Congress's no vote is what precipitated the move by Putin. There is no way in hell Putin will allow the US to bomb Syria and destabilize the current govt. Russia has too much at stake.

This whole think is a brilliant display of Obama using his enemies to achieve his goal. His reputation may suffer for it, but in the end he won.

[leftstreet]

60. There's a Nobel Prize for Lamest President Ever?

That's what he would have won

[Avalux]

66. ...

[sibelian]

90. Yeah.

I'm mad.

[totodeinhere]

67. The vote against military action would be bipartisan. And actually it would benefit the

Republicans politically to be seen voting on the side of what most American want which is to stay out of this war.

[Iliyah]

71. This - Avalux

plus, how in the heck are they going to bitch about attacking Iran now? Win win on Pres O's part.

[Iliyah]

73. Agreed - Avalux

and it also puts a dent in gopers constant war drum beat about Iran. Win win for Pred O.

[bobduca]

55. Masterful Strategery and if you Disagree you are a Racist

and never loved him.

[geek tragedy]

59. Why didn't he? nt

[whatchamacallit]

61. Um... because the reviled Putin tossed him a lifeline? n/t

[geek tragedy]

65. Sorry, the Kremlin rejects your ODS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014591360

[uponit7771]

84. This place is filled with ODS these days, makes it hard to post here

[Maedhros]

62. It looks like war with Syria may be averted.

Regardless of the reason, that is something to be celebrated.

I'm still not happy about how this played out. If this is "brinksmanship" it was very, very clumsy.

[whatchamacallit]

63. Agreed

but my spidey sense is tingling like a mofo...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. He did intend to with a "coalition of the willing" which disolved in the British Parliament and

American public opinion.

[RedCappedBandit]

68. Its funny because the people claiming this to be multidimensional chess...

were fine with the idea of so called surgical strikes before. But now OBVIOUSLY he never actually MEANT to do it.

[brush]

69. Not really. Realpolitik.

The President use his rep from the Ben Ladin/Khadaffi/Mubarak takedowns to convince Putin and Assad that he would follow through. They remembered what happened to Ben Ladin/Khadaffi/Mubarak and blinked (the Libyan and Egyptian crises show have revealed to everyone that this president wants to avoid war).

The President, Kerry and Rice, however, all used and will continue using the same script until the surrender of Syria's chem weapons.

This is how it's done — using the tremendous power of the United States without firing a shot.

[LanternWaste]

74. If and only if, you are under the impression this incident is over.

"So I'm expected to believe Obama never intended to attack Syria?"
If and only if, you are under the impression this incident is truly and emphatically over.

However, I imagine that, like Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Pres. Obama would much rather use any means short of armed conflict at his disposal to defuse the tensions, and would even resort to back-channel deals to avoid a potentially devastating regional conflagration.

Really? You give consideration to what you're "expected to believe" by other posters? Or (and I find this more likely) was this merely an almost-clever, back-handed compliment to those with opinions that may differ from yours...?

[woo me with science]

78. Yes. AND there is no spying on the American people.

AND Obama put Social Security cuts on the table because he opposes them.

I am sure he opposes the Trans-Pacific Partnership, too.


It's a sad statement on the corruption of our government that brazen, lying propaganda and rewriting of history appear to be the status quo now in political messaging in the United States of America.

[Blue State Bandit]

81. Should he have just asked Nicely? "Pweeeeeeeeeze Mr. Brutal Dictator?"

[DFW]

82. I believe he never WANTED to attack Syria

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Just as I believe Cheney (dba Bush Lite) ALWAYS intended to invade Iraq.

Cheney indicated his intentions on Iraq practically the second he took office.

Obama stated flat last year out that he wanted no part of Syria at all.

Maybe things changed that lie below the surface, and maybe he has had cause for a change of heart, but I do believe that he never wanted to be part of any hostilities there, for the very practical reason that whoever won would be our enemy (his words, not mine). Not a very good reason to get involved. He does not see himself as a member of The Seven Samurai.

[Catherina]

87. +1 I think there's a huge huge tug of war taking place right now n/t

[spanone]

86. doesn't matter

[Skittles]

92. yes! he risked rejection by the Brits as part of a RUSE!!!!

CHESS, BABY!!