General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHey, DU geniuses who think Putin schooled Obama
You were wrong yet again.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9890I020130910?irpc=932
"The issue was discussed," spokesman Dmitry Peskov said by telephone. He would not say who raised the issue or give other details.
So, Kerry was not speaking off the cuff, and this was not a surprise to Obama, nor was it dumb luck.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Ya know.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)It's just that the world is one giant conspiracy to make them look foolish.
David__77
(23,402 posts)Vigorous debate is a good thing.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But, too many fall into the reverse halo effect.
David__77
(23,402 posts)It's good to keep cool-headed about all of this. It's a fluid situation. It does, however, seem unlikely that a resolution will be acceptable to all parties at the UN.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Thanx.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)And has been smiling politely at their insights for the better part of three decades.
Logical
(22,457 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)leftstreet
(36,108 posts)Everyone's just glad the missiles aren't flying
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I'd suggest you exercise more caution when attempting to speak for everyone.
leftstreet
(36,108 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)FIELDS of strawmen...
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)leftstreet
(36,108 posts)The majority of Americans are antiwar - REGARDLESS of which politician is talking about it
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... and the reactionary, Putin, look like a peacemaker.
I'm glad that Obama decided to scratch the itchy finger without firing any weapons, but it hardly makes him look like he came out on top of this.
I'm glad that we're not bombing the hell out of Syrians ... and it just took a reactionary like Putin to mitigate this crisis.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)How's that meal of crow and sour grapes going down?
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)I love how the blogosphere has NO inside intel on the big picture, but presumes to try to school the decision-makers.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)outraged for the gazillionth time.
Logical
(22,457 posts)blm
(113,061 posts)the worst narrative they can create when it comes to Kerry and Obama.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)in the idiotic belief that they can influence the American politic that way...
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)post but don't pose...
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Obama is black. John Kerry is a Democrat who the mainstream corporate media NEVER liked. Both are Democrats.
Why we here at DU cannot see and understand that is beyond me.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Cool.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)David__77
(23,402 posts)That IS something. But a lot of us do speak in a provocative fashion I suppose.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)grandiose fools of themselves, it bears noting.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)18 hidden posts, REALLY?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Including the one where one jury voted to hide "Fuck Ron Paul"
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Because everyone on DU has 18 hidden posts!
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)follow Pres. Obamas lead...don't back down!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Mon Sep 9, 2013, 06:17 PM
Skinner (58,110 posts)
1. Yes, we have considered a secondary sanction.
I agree that some people have shown that they are not dissuaded by the public shaming of having a visible transparency page. Some of them have even said as much right here on DU.
I also agree that reasonable posters make an effort to avoid getting their posts hidden. It really isn't that difficult.
I think DU as a whole would be better off if the people who kept getting their posts hidden would make an effort and stop posting things that get hidden. If they don't care, then I think it is in our interest to make them care. We have an idea that would do that -- and I think we are very likely to implement it.
To any DUers who keep getting posts hidden: Now is a good time to start figuring out how to not get your posts hidden. Because change is coming...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12593326#post1
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But I will continue to say "fuck Ron Paul" regardless of what juries say.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)But but but NSA and ron and conspiracy's and stuff
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)And I support you on them. Here on polarized underground, everyone seems to clutch their pearls and see everything as a vicious personal attack...
Whisp
(24,096 posts)a poster can just Accuse you with:
Don't Call Me a Liar!!!
when there was Nothing in your post that came to calling anyone a liar - unless having oposing points of view is regarded as that.
the alert is sent, and you get locked out.
it all depends on how many !!!!!! of these you use, I guess and whether there are more Crips than the Bloods online for jury duty.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I've served on about 15 juries since I've been here. In that time, I think I voted ONCE to hide a post.
Most of what I've come across is people getting all worked up by opposing points of views, or in the case of the "Fuck Ron Paul" post, a large Libertarian base that seems to have infiltrated this site. I served on that jury as well. I was astounded that anyone voted to hide it.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)about hidden posts and number of, to shame us into being wery wery careful what we say.
I think I read somewhere that one possibility of the 'punishments' is that if you exceed X number of hides, then you can no longer be a host of a/any group/s.
I hope that isn't implemented, but I won't cry about it either. It might lead to massive confusion in group forums with a possible revolving door, unless, of course we just all shut up when someone lauds Fuck Ron Paul or unjustly vilifies the President.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I didn't read much of the info regarding changes from DU2 to DU3. I've been around since DU1, but didn't post much, and seeing as I made the account in college, I lost the email I signed up with, and can't even remember what name I used to post under back then. I went without a computer and net access for a couple years after that, and when I came back and registered, it was already DU2, about to turn into DU3. I do miss the Unrec feature, as a small group of (insert derogatory remark here) seems to get their anti-Obama agenda all over the greatest page, while the fact filled posts get buried. But if you call those (idrh) out for their blatant bullshitery, your post gets hidden...
I just looked at my transparency page. I know I had a couple posts hidden around the time of the Sandy Hook shooting where my posts were deemed by some ultra-sensitives to be NRA propaganda (which is funny, as I don't own guns, and even mentioned that in my posts), even after further clarifying my remarks, my posts were hidden. But now, it shows no hidden posts. Does it only track the past 90 days?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Those of us who lose our ability to self-edit in such interactions, anyways.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)What are they, leaders or something?
Zorra
(27,670 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)so clearly it didn't happen.
You'd have to be pretty stupid to not think that the Obama administration and Putin's government were not in regular talks about Syria for a long, long time now. Clearly, Obama and Putin don't get along, but its also very likely that neither really wants the armed conflict in Syria to spread, or to include Chemical Weapons.
But Russia isn't going to vote YES on a military strike on Syria, at the UN. Never going to happen.
So our diplomats, and their diplomats looked for, and found, a path forward that would not include military strikes. We had to keep up the pressure of strikes (and not bluff) and Russia had to go tell Assad, "they aren't bluffing".
But according to the folks on DU who so incorrectly predicted a 2nd Iraq war for about 3 weeks now ... what happened is that Putin came up with this humanitarian offer simply because he's a swell guy.
See ... apparently, it went down like this .... President Obama was sitting in the oval office playing with some toy missiles, when Putin called and said, "Hey bro, listen up ... I'll get Assad to give up the Chem weapons cause your in a real jam, so don't sweat it, I got your back, my main man!!"
Or some approximation of that ... from what I'm reading from the Combustible Hair Club today.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)The propaganda has no credibility anymore.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)We know you will. That's how it works, doesn't it.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)...but I applaud those who do so anyway.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)about the TPP, fracking, nuclear power, depleted uranium, etc. Here is a thread that is top of the Greatest Page http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023631191. Dont you have a comment? How about the other threads on the Greatest page other than those praising Obama?
Those that are restricted to praising Pres Obama and ad hominem attacks and strawmen arguments against those that dont blindly follow, are the ones with no credibility.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)They then direct vitriol at the persons criticizing the policy, because their primary understanding of politics is of loyalty to personalities. It's counter-productive and frustrating, but not likely to change.
frylock
(34,825 posts)so any criticism is taken personally.
frylock
(34,825 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The inability to accept that one's views have been wrong is an inate human characteristic.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Such constant effort and desperation to make brazen propaganda appear to be consensus. The same old, transparent swarm, by the same little, familiar group.
How illustrative of the corruption of our government that brazen, lying propaganda and rewriting of history appear to be the status quo now in political messaging in the United States of America.
Response to woo me with science (Reply #40)
Post removed
Aerows
(39,961 posts)but I'm with the crowd when we avert war and disaster. It doesn't matter who you might have a grudge against - a win for peace is a win for peace.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)My opposition is to blatant rewriting of history for political purposes, a tactic which is becoming disturbingly common in political messaging.
We are far from ensured peace at this point.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3637406
Aerows
(39,961 posts)is still the right thing, my friend.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)My skepticism is deep at the moment, for the reasons in the link of my last post.
I don't think they are finished yet.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)help were you can, and step away from the edge. That's the best that any of us can do, and it's also the best of us.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)But reinforcing good behavior does not require accepting lies as truth.
We are being fed a deliberate campaign to rewrite history.
I won't be okay with that, ever.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)it's you.
It's just like a small town, isn't it.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)...don't you get it?
They spent weeks here screaming about Obama cutting Social Security....
They spent months here screaming that he was anti-LGBT and would never support Marriage Equality...
They spent days here screaming that he was a warmongerer who was hell bent on attacking Syria no matter what....
It simply does NOT MATTER to them that they are always, every single time, wrong about Obama. To be "cool" on the left is to be a FireBagger.... you cannot show any support for Obama whatsoever or you lose your street creds.
"Obama = Bush" is their credo... and dammit, they aren't going to let facts get in the way of that.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)Itchinjim
(3,085 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)"chained CPI! Chained CPI!"
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Who gave up something? Putin did the conceding, so he lost; Obama won. That isn't hard to figure out. The rest is PR and spin.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)but Putin didn't walk away from this with nothing. He had been taking hits in the press for his obstinacy; this gives him some diplomatic capital as a guy who can facilitate compromise.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)if he doesn't screw that up by waffling on it now. But he gave up Assad's chemical weapons, which are tangible military assets versus image.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)to play out. The Syrians haven't given up their chemical weapons yet. All they have done is "agree" to a proposal which may never happen. The Russians are already saying that the French UN proposal which would implement their surrender of chemical weapons is "unacceptable." And remember that the Syrians have "agreed" to negotiate with the rebels before only to back out. If this turns out to be a stalling tactic on the part of the Syrians as Hillary Clinton has suggested then this is certainly no victory for Obama.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)In this round, Putin made the concessions. As to the next round, that remains to be seen as you said, and on the whole game (to use a euphemism), that will probably take years and may never be conclusive.
I don't see Obama, or the French, agreeing to a stall.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)This dumb-luck, corrupt, war-mongering, incompetent POTUS lies "like breathing" and has blundered his way though an absolutely do-nothing presidency, needing help from everyone from Bill Clinton to Putin just to stand at the podium upright.
I heard it here! Must be true!
Logical
(22,457 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)POTUS sees the available options and possible outcomes. Engages Congress to allow time for some scenarios to play out. NEVER made a decision either way on whether to use force. Presented evidence to make the case for illegal chemical weapons use.
No backtracking. Following the path that opened up when Russia complied.
Logical
(22,457 posts)jessie04
(1,528 posts)dumb-luck, corrupt, war-mongering, NEO-CON, PNAC, CHICKENHAWK incompetent POTUS .
Of course they will never admit to it.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)BrainDrain
(244 posts)A) IF it had been discussed and Obama thought it was such a great idea, why did he wait to publicly accept it? Why didn't he jump on it from the start since he KNEW he was gonna get his ass kicked by congress over a military action?
B) WHY give the initiative to the Russians? At least make it a joint announcement, so it would LOOK like he knew what he was doing?
C) Why have the SOS make it sound like some sort of afterthought?
None of what you claim makes ANY sense in a world where Obama supposedly knows what he is doing. All of it makes him look like an idiot. Which leads to the final question of...
D) Why in the hell would he let himself look like an idiot?
Please feel free to mumble away.......
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to have Russia/Syria offer it than for the perception to be that Washington was dictating it.
lynne
(3,118 posts)- and am just relieved that calmer heads prevailed. Doesn't matter which head was the calm one.
However, I do find it unfortunate that a diplomatic solution was not the first solution considered in lieu of the last.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)or we can celebrate that it is wet. I'm in the second category, and thrilled that disaster has been averted.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It looks like we may have averted a messy intervention. Bravo. If Obama learned something from the process, fantastic.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)from the war rhetoric, and choosing a different path.
andym
(5,443 posts)I think he was, but the idea was on his mind because of past discussions. Probably the initial discussions were shot down (by Syria?), which is why Kerry thought getting the Syrians to surrender their weapons was "impossible" and why the State department was initially dismissive. But good diplomats are open-minded and the proposed solution is very reasonable.
This is how diplomacy works-- it's not always pretty, but where the parties have every reason to find a solution, a solution may very well be found.
As for the reactions on DU, dividing the world ideologically into good and evil tends to lead to oversimplification.
revmclaren
(2,523 posts)Obama tells lawmakers he wants to delay vote on action in Syria!
Boy oh boy is Obama bad at being a Warmonger! Maybe, just maybe it's because HE'S NOT ONE!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I applaud Obama on this one!
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
veganlush
(2,049 posts)Thanks for posting! I'm so tired of the anti-Obama's here now.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)as part of a ruse?