Seymour Hersh is just mad that he won't be able to sell as many books.

[Cali_Democrat]

He's been saying for years that a US attack on Iran is imminent.

Well I'm sure he's seen these recent developments:

Kerry Meets One-on-One with Iran's Foreign Minister

<..>

The Kerry-Zarif meeting was the first official high-level meeting between the U.S. and Iran since the Iranian revolution in 1979.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/kerry-meets-irans-foreign-minister/story?id=20383328

Obama Speaks to President of Iran in First Talk Since 1979

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/28/world/obama-says-he-spoke-to-irans-president-by-phone.html?_r=0

His predictions of imminent war in Iran are bullshit. This will cost him $$$$$ in book sales and he's pissed.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. He's all about the book sales. n/t

[Shrike47]

42. I have more respect for him than that. He has disclosed important information over the years.

[treestar]

23. He could make $$ on it

Depending on how large the Alex Jones nutty crowd is.

[whatchamacallit]

3. Your character assassination is only effective on the faithful

and the ignorant. Do your worst.

[Octafish]

61. Lunch with the Chairman

Why was Richard Perle meeting with Adnan Khashoggi?

by Seymour M. Hersh
Annals of National Security
The New Yorker
March 17, 2003

EXCERPT...

Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle East, and Richard N. Perle, the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, who is one of the most outspoken and influential American advocates of war with Iraq.

The Defense Policy Board is a Defense Department advisory group composed primarily of highly respected former government officials, retired military officers, and academics. Its members, who serve without pay, include former national-security advisers, Secretaries of Defense, and heads of the C.I.A. The board meets several times a year at the Pentagon to review and assess the country’s strategic defense policies.

Perle is also a managing partner in a venture-capital company called Trireme Partners L.P., which was registered in November, 2001, in Delaware. Trireme’s main business, according to a two-page letter that one of its representatives sent to Khashoggi last November, is to invest in companies dealing in technology, goods, and services that are of value to homeland security and defense. The letter argued that the fear of terrorism would increase the demand for such products in Europe and in countries like Saudi Arabia and Singapore.

The letter mentioned the firm’s government connections prominently: “Three of Trireme’s Management Group members currently advise the U.S. Secretary of Defense by serving on the U.S. Defense Policy Board, and one of Trireme’s principals, Richard Perle, is chairman of that Board.” The two other policy-board members associated with Trireme are Henry Kissinger, the former Secretary of State (who is, in fact, only a member of Trireme’s advisory group and is not involved in its management), and Gerald Hillman, an investor and a close business associate of Perle’s who handles matters in Trireme’s New York office. The letter said that forty-five million dollars had already been raised, including twenty million dollars from Boeing; the purpose, clearly, was to attract more investors, such as Khashoggi and Zuhair.

CONTINUED...

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/03/17/030317fa_fact

Guy pegged warmongers from Year One of Iraq Oil War II.

[G_j]

4. Is it official?

Hersh got elected anti-Christ of the day?

[TheKentuckian]

17. Anti-Christ of the day is perfect! I wonder how they decide? Colbert style ThreatDown board,

cast lots, draw names, first come first serve, dart board, orders from on high, or just feeding frenzy for whatever is in the water.

[treestar]

25. It's a so called investigative reporter

who spouts off opinion sans "investigation" of any kind who can make that designation. There are many ways of doing it. That's just one.

And then trashes all journalists generally for not being as "good" as he is.

"Questioning the government" as a supposed good thing is not just flinging poo at them. It's finding some real fact out.

[noiretextatique]

54. he is not a team player

the the has decided. he said something bad about the quarterback.

[QC]

74. He is a big old meanie!

[geek tragedy]

20. No, the Truther of the day. nt

[Junkdrawer]

21. Whoa...Are we allowed to use the T**** word in mixed company?

Belgium, man, Belgium

[geek tragedy]

30. Some people take it as a compliment. nt

[Junkdrawer]

33. Hard to imagine someone becoming so corrupt that T**** seeking....

wins out over self-seeking.

The Invisible Hand weeps.

[Mojorabbit]

69. Apparently. The usual people have been working hard to throw him under the bus today. nt

[MADem]

5. I think he's gone the way of Pierre Salinger. It happens when people age and those

arteries harden and plaque invades once-healthy places.


Sad, really. He's making a major ass of himself.

I'm sure he'll have supporters....and they'll come from the usual corners. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the hot-breathed "Yeah!!!! I knew it all along!!!!!" topic over at places where the Paulbots gather...!

[whatchamacallit]

8. Ah, ye old ageism smear

Is that the directive de jour? Extra points for working in "Paulbots".

[MADem]

14. I beg your pardon---I can talk about aging, I'm in the thick of it.

It's not a smear when it's the truth. The man is talking ragtime.

As for "working in" Paulbots, you've motivated me to prove my point--I normally would not link to lunatic fringe and conspiracy sites such as these, but you've "thrown down," as it were, so--strictly for purposes of elucidation and NOT endorsement, let's see who's gleefully reporting Mr. Hersh's addled ranting, shall we?

OOOOOOOOPS---looky here, The Daily Paul: http://www.dailypaul.com/300587/powerful-sy-hersh-obama-admins-bin-laden-raid-fairytale-is-one-big-lie-not-one-word-of-it-is-true

These INFOWARS loons are on the Hersh train, too: http://www.infowars.com/seymour-hersh-bin-laden-death-one-big-lie/

And the crazed fringers at PRISON PLANET have wasted no time in hopping aboard, either: http://www.prisonplanet.com/special-report-seymour-hersh-calls-osama-bin-laden-raid-a-lie.html

The cheerleaders for Hersh's confused assertions are coming from sites that are not DU friendly; places that are regarded as Not Quite Rational.

But hey, thank you for insisting I prove my point, and, knock yourself out!

[SidDithers]

39. Well said...

Sid

[MADem]

40. Thank you, Sid! nt

[grasswire]

41. "talking ragtime"

Did you make that phrase up? I have never heard it before.

In some quarters, talking ragtime would be called scat singing, and considered quite a marketable art!

[MADem]

43. I'm not the author, I can take no credit!

I learned the phrase as a kid, from folks who were born in the latter half of the nineteenth century, actually! It was used to describe a person who wasn't making any sense. I heard it from more than one of them--it was apparently a common expression in days gone by!

See Number Two on this list: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ragtime

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. I hope you didn't alert on whatchamacallit (nt)

[MADem]

64. Did you? nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. No, but someone did, when they were just saying to you what you said about Hersh

It seems an unfair 'hide'. You're happy with pointing out the failures of the elderly, which includes yourself.

[MADem]

68. I didn't call Hersh's comments "senile blather."

And he's not a member of DU, unless you're him....?

Skinner had something to say about this kind of exchange recently in ATA--perhaps you saw it? http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/12593537#post1

Surely you're not suggesting that if you call George Bush an "asshole," then that gives people the "right" to call YOU an asshole? Because YOU used the term first? That does seem to be your argument, here. If someone voices a less than fulsome opinion about a public figure, any old DUer can come at that person with the same comment, and any objection is "unfair?"

As someone closer to "elderly" than "youth," and someone who spends a lot of time with older people, I have "cred" to point out ---not the "failures" (sick word, why would you use that? Are measles or cancer a failure? It's an illness for heaven's sake) of the elderly, but the simple fact that as WE age, WE often find ourselves battling cognitive issues. And that can affect the ability of an older person to make an effective argument.

Of course, just making shit up, doing no research, and opining like fiction is fact can impact that ability as well.

When someone like Hersh, who has done respectable work in the (distant) past, starts going off the rails and making unsubstantiated, lazy, woowoo claims, it's down to cognitive issues, a deliberate "fire sale" of his reputation for cold hard cash, or a desire for one last round in the spotlight, damned the facts.

[Cha]

75. Thanks for explaining that so thoroughly for those who don't know the

difference between speculating on the reason for Seymour Hersh's conspiracy theories(despite all evidence to the contrary) could be due to aging arteries, .. and a personal attack on a member of DU.

Good Hide

[muriel_volestrangler]

81. All those words, and you've avoided saying whether you alerted or not

You think 'failures' is a 'sick word'? When you said "he's gone the way of Pierre Salinger. It happens when people age and those arteries harden and plaque invades once-healthy places. Sad, really. He's making a major ass of himself. " Yes, you use a lot of words to, basically, call his comments 'senile blather'. So it would be hypocritical of you to alert. Sure, it would be within the letter of the DU rules. But DU rules don't define society and our attitude to hypocrisy.

[MADem]

94. And you keep wrongly equating criticism of a public figure to personal insults on DU.

What's "sad, really" is that you can't tell the difference between robust criticism of a public figure--and I do think Mr. Hersh has made a complete ass of himself, let's be quite clear on that score--and a personal insult directed at a DUer.

I see no hypocrisy at all if I were to alert.

Again, since you completely and quite deliberately missed the point I made upthread, I would reiterate that what you are saying is that if someone criticizes a public figure robustly on DU, then that same criticism can be leveled at the person making the criticism without consequences accruing. That IS your thesis. It didn't fly, though, did it?

Yes, you use a lot of words, basically, and you don't acknowledge that point. Some might suggest that you are being "hypocritical" as well. Personal insults are OK for some, but not for others, is that it?

DU has no "rules," you know--it has a TOS, SOPs, and community consensus via the jury system.

[zappaman]

65. Glad someone did.

That post, like his other 10 hides, was out of line.

[Cha]

73. It figures! Thanks for the elucidation, MADem.. just as

suspected. Why wouldn't they push that shit.. what else do they have?

[Whisp]

85. well done.

very well done.

[treestar]

27. It's not necessarily a smear

It's a fact people are affected in certain ways by age.

Getting cantankerous is one of them.

[ProSense]

6. President Obama is a

figment of our imagination. I expect his entire Presidency to be written off as a lie by some.

He gets credit for nothing except all the ills of the world, despair and poverty. Everything he does is better late than never or someone else deserves credit.

I remember some trying to give Poland credit for the Kerry-Lavrov agreement.

[LWolf]

7. Or, conversely,

you're just mad because he doesn't revere your hero.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Seymour's job is to sell books

Diplomacy with Iran is money that doesn't go into his pocket.

[LWolf]

11. Which is beside my point. nt

[G_j]

9. yawn

Left wing journalist criticizes Obama: slew of attack threads against said person..

[treestar]

28. He didn't criticize Obama

He flung out some poo with no proof whatsoever. Just believing him is supposed to be OK from the same people who say we can't believe Obama? At least Obama took an oath to uphold the law and was elected. But blindly following some journalist is OK. A big inconsistency there.

[randome]

31. No one gives a shit about someone's supposed left wing credentials.

He could be the personification of Left Wing, right now he's sprouting blather.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[morningfog]

71. "No one gives a shit about someone's supposed left wing credentials."

Says all anyone on DU needs to know about you.

[riqster]

12. He'll keep on trying to smear Obama, no matter how long it takes.

Carrying water for Boehner as usual.

[Douglas Carpenter]

84. exactly! Hersh is a right-wing Republcian neocon - everyone knows that

[riqster]

86. Not sure I buy that.

But he DOES go after people with a singular tenacity that is not always based on reality, and sometimes seems to put commerce ahead of factual accuracy.

Much like Bob Woodward. Both did great work in their younger days, but seem to have put profit first in recent years.

[Wilms]

13. Please be a little more serious.

Just a little, though. Because I do admit there's entertainment value is these wastes of bandwidth.

[The Second Stone]

15. You are saying that the neo-cons didn't want war with Iran? They did and they were

pushing very hard for it and probably still are. As outrageous as the things Hersh says are, it is more outrageous that they are usually right and always based on multiple sources. I hope he is wrong about war with Iran, but there is a huge push for it.

When he broke the My Lai story the serious people said it was all lies too.

I hope events do overtake the push for war with Iran and make the book obsolete. But that doesn't mean there aren't warmongers out there. There are.

[Wilms]

18. Well, of course the My Lai story turned out to be true.

But that's only because Obama wasn't President.

That's how it works.

[treestar]

29. LBJ was, and he's often been used as a

Fine tough Upstanding Democrat who would "fight" for us where Obama "caves."

[Wilms]

37. That may or may not be true.

But it has little bearing. Fact is, there are seriously logic-lacking posts by people who take offense at any criticism leveled at the WH.

I know a lot of Dems that don't operate that way. I know a lot of Repubs that do. It's unreasonable for Repubs to do it. It's embarrassing to me to see Dems doing it.

[marmar]

19. ........

[winter is coming]

22. That didn't take long. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

24. You're just mad that someone, anywhere is not of The Body. It always what you are mad about.

SEYMOUR HERSH, YOU ARE NOT OF THE BODY!!!

<>

[SidDithers]

26. DU rec...nt

Sid

[hobbit709]

32. Jealous?

[Comrade Grumpy]

34. Ugly attacks like this should be beneath DU.

Ascribing only the basest, most mercenary motivations. The OP should be ashamed, but doubtless isn't.

[Drunken Irishman]

51. Are you fucking serious?

For much of the summer, the left-wing lynch mob has been pushing a narrative that Obama is a heartless warmonger and you find this beneath DU? What the fuck? Seriously ... what the actual fuck? I am so sick of the double-standard with so many posters here. They're perfectly content trashing Obama, turning him into some war criminal bastard, but when someone points out the lunacy of the left, and the frothing of the mouth, right-wing mirroring assholery, you all act butt-hurt like it's some goddamn travesty that it's allowed here!

Bull-fucking-shit. How many of you have even walked back the claims you spewed toward Obama this entire summer? I'm guessing there is little 'I was wrong' posts from the consistent freak show on the left. For months, you all burped out total crap on how Obama was going to start World War III with Syria, and then some of you even pushed the idea, as did the off his rocker Seymour Hersh, that Iran was next ... and an attack there was imminent and yet, after all the bluster from the mistaken left, they're dismissive of any attack toward that inaccuracy. Typical.

Call Obama a murderer - hey! It's no big thing. Call out the loony left who regurgitated right-wing Paulbot Alex Jones talking points to attack the President? HOW DARE YOU.

What a fucking farce. You should be ashamed of your ilk - who have been proven wrong time after time and won't own up to it or even admit they were wrong. Instead, they dig in deeper and look completely bat-shit insane. Sadly, much of the left is just as nutty as the right-wing...and really, I can't tell 'em apart anymore. There are a handful of posters here that bellyache in damn near similar wording as the fuckers on FreeRepublic.

Crazy.

[tavernier]

53. Sooo...

the wedding is off?

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. So who do you think approves the drone strikes?

Remember, the White House itself says it's Obama.

[Drunken Irishman]

67. And that has what to do with Iran?

You're babbling. Stay on subject. We get it. Obama is evil.

[MannyGoldstein]

78. Um, *your own post* above changed the topic

Then another poster responds to *your* topic change, and you get upset?

Wow.

[muriel_volestrangler]

80. 'heartless warmonger' is the charge typically thrown at Obama for the drone strikes

And you talked about what had been said about Obama through the summer. Look back at the summer, and you'll find the complaints about Obama were about (a) drones (b) the NSA - and 'warmonger' is not used for the NSA (or 'heartless'). Syria didn't come up until September, and there has not been a significant discussion about Obama and Iran. So when you complain that "for much of the summer, the left-wing lynch mob has been pushing a narrative that Obama is a heartless warmonger", it has to be about drones.

So, are you going to talk about drones?

(Ironically, 'Iran' is a massive red herring introduced in the OP. The OP is a massive ad hominem argument, designed to say "don't pay attention to anything Seymour Hersh says now, because a few years ago, he said there were plans to attack Iran". The Seymour Hersh article, which has got Obama's groupies desperate to find something to discredit him about, doesn't even mention Iran once. It does mention drones, however. It's mainly about journalism, though; he was, after all, talking to a summer school on investigative journalism.)

[Drunken Irishman]

87. It has been a charge thrown at him for Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran.

Obama was consistently called a warmonger leading up to the Syria attacks ... and they didn't happen. He was trashed as heartless, painted as a monster and murderer and when he reached diplomatic method with Syria, what'd the blowhards do? They didn't say, 'my bad.' or, 'good for Obama for doing it right...'. They just went quiet and then latched on to another supposed 'war' and pushed that narrative. Well...

If I had a nickle for every time some crazy leftist said Obama was about to start World War III, I would be stinkin' rich.

[muriel_volestrangler]

88. And this summer, the period *you* specified, it was about drone strikes

So are you just going to ignore them?

[Drunken Irishman]

89. No it was not.

It was entirely over Syria. Just google Obama, Syria and warmonger.

That doesn't mean he hasn't been called a warmonger on drones - but Syria was what really drove the nuts out of the cave.

What's interesting is how many of the 'Obama is a warmonger' crowd also turns around and praises guys like Johnson, Kennedy, Truman & FDR - men whose actions across the seas led to more deaths than anything Obama has ever done as president.

[muriel_volestrangler]

90. Google 'September' and 'season' (nt)

[Drunken Irishman]

91. I get a lot of premiere dates for TV shows.

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. And do they say "This September - new for this summer!"? (nt)

[Drunken Irishman]

93. I don't know. I closed out.

[OregonBlue]

35. Somehow I don't think you're gonna see too many Americans who want to go after the

Navy Seals for killing Osama, no matter how they did it.

Hersh is whistling into the wind. He may sell a few books to the ODS crowd but even they will have a hard time getting behind a "Navy Seals are War Criminals" meme.

[QC]

36. Seymour Hersch never really loved him!!!

[JaneyVee]

38. FACTS over speculation. Hershe is in wingnut territory.

[grasswire]

44. her she?

Is that some kind of gender slur?

[intaglio]

57. Probably not, trypewiting ettor or a reference to rubbish chocolate n/r

[Wilms]

58. No. Hershey, PA.

But they voted for Obama in that region so I'm not sure about the wing-nuts claim.

Almonds, maybe.

[DJ13]

45. I hear Seymour has boxes under that bus

[Hydra]

46. Where's the bus up there?

It's getting so crowded down here I can't even see it!

[QC]

47. I heard that he was once in the same room as a pole dancer. n/t

[DJ13]

49. Nooooooooooo

[DevonRex]

48. Saying not one word of the Osama Bin Laden raid's true is NUTTY.

I've always liked him. But when he bases that on some supposed Pakistani "report" that he declines to quote or produce, I've got to believe he's either lost his marbles or this is nothing more than an advance publicity stunt. Either way it doesn't make him look good.

[MsPithy]

50. At numerous times in the last few years, an attack on Iran has

been imminent. It is the neocon's and military industrial complex's fondest dream. They are dangerous and they will never stop pushing "The Next War," agenda.

Just because Obama and Kerry and Rouhani have pulled us back from the edge, does not mean that we have not been standing on the edge since the Bush administration.

[delrem]

52. Wow, you guys work fast! nt

[Th1onein]

55. Except that he's broken many stories that were TRUE.

I think that gives him what we call "credibility."

[Scootaloo]

56. As I've said, there's money to be made keeping people hating Iran

Here's hoping Hersh is just the first of many people caught on top of that disintigrating bubble. I hope it hurts when they hit hte bottom

[Cerridwen]

59. You fell for it, too?

Sucks, doesn't it?

Perhaps you could find what was actually reported and discuss that rather than attempt to "kill the messenger."

If nothing else it might make you appear serious about issues when you address issues rather than the questionable reports of personalities.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Another thread from the DU "Authors are Evil" crowd

Cali_Democrat, remember, 'Fahrenheit 451' was a cautionary tale, not a 'how-to' manual for you.

[rhett o rick]

70. Dont you just hate it when people have opinions different from the approved status-quo. nm

[Cali_Democrat]

72. Fuck Ron Paul. n/t

[rhett o rick]

79. I second that. nm

[Cha]

76. This probably really pissed him off then..

A supporter of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani holds a local newspaper with a headline that reads, “Historic call from a return flight,” upon his arrival from the U.S. near the Mehrabad airport in Tehran, Sept. 28

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110217284

[MannyGoldstein]

77. Do you have any evidence - any at all -

that Hersh prevericated to increase book sales?

If not, then please do the right thing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

82. exactly!!

[Cali_Democrat]

95. Are you accusing me of making unsubstantiated claims?

Kinda like what Seymour does when he says a US attack on Iran is imminent?

Funny dat.

[Douglas Carpenter]

83. I bet his "revelations" about the "My Lai Massacre" were just a scam to make money too

The only reason why anyone ever disagrees with me is because they are running a scam to make more money. This is always turns out to be the case.