Bobby Kennedy had something to say about guns, actually.

[Robb]

Last edited Sat Sep 28, 2013, 11:57 PM - Edit history (1)

This speech, given the day after Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot, and just weeks before a gunman would take his own life, has recently been shamefully edited elsewhere on DU to give the impression RFK was not specifically talking about guns.

The relevant part of the speech (which is beautiful, read it all here) actually went thusly:

Whenever any American's life is taken by another American unnecessarily - whether it is done in the name of the law or in the defiance of the law, by one man or a gang, in cold blood or in passion, in an attack of violence or in response to violence - whenever we tear at the fabric of the life which another man has painfully and clumsily woven for himself and his children, the whole nation is degraded.

"Among free men," said Abraham Lincoln, "there can be no successful appeal from the ballot to the bullet; and those who take such appeal are sure to lose their cause and pay the costs."



Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far-off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire whatever weapons and ammunition they desire.



Too often we honor swagger and bluster and wielders of force; too often we excuse those who are willing to build their own lives on the shattered dreams of others. Some Americans who preach non-violence abroad fail to practice it here at home. Some who accuse others of inciting riots have by their own conduct invited them.



Some look for scapegoats, others look for conspiracies, but this much is clear: violence breeds violence, repression brings retaliation, and only a cleansing of our whole society can remove this sickness from our soul.



April 5, 1968

[NYC_SKP]

1. I'll never forget how I cried hearing Bobby Kennedy's words that day.

We're in this together, brother.

[Robb]

2. First, you linked to the wrong speech. He gave the one you cribbed from my post the next morning.

Second, your post is an embarrassment. Clearly not to you, although it should be.

Editing RFK's most poignant anti-gun speech to not include any mention of guns? Rove would be proud, Bobby would not.

[NYC_SKP]

3. Transcript of the speech.

Where you see guns, I see a passionate call for peace.

You have your message and your meaningful memory, Robb, and I have mine:

On the Death of Martin Luther King, Jr.
by Robert F. Kennedy
April 4, 1968
Indianapolis, Indiana

During an Indianapolis, Indiana rally for his presidential campaign, attended by a large number of African Americans, Robert F. Kennedy, despite suggestions he shouldn't appear at all, decided to proceed and announce the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., to a group unaware that the killing had taken place.

I have bad news for you, for all of our fellow citizens, and people who love peace all over the world, and that is that Martin Luther King was shot and killed tonight.

Martin Luther King dedicated his life to love and to justice for his fellow human beings, and he died because of that effort.

In this difficult day, in this difficult time for the United States, it is perhaps well to ask what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in. For those of you who are black -- considering the evidence there evidently is that there were white people who were responsible -- you can be filled with bitterness, with hatred, and a desire for revenge. We can move in that direction as a country, in great polarization -- black people amongst black, white people amongst white, filled with hatred toward one another.

Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand and to comprehend, and to replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand with compassion and love.

For those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and distrust at the injustice of such an act, against all white people, I can only say that I feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man. But we have to make an effort in the United States, we have to make an effort to understand, to go beyond these rather difficult times.

My favorite poet was Aeschylus. He wrote: "In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God."

What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence or lawlessness; but love and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or they be black.

So I shall ask you tonight to return home, to say a prayer for the family of Martin Luther King, that's true, but more importantly to say a prayer for our own country, which all of us love -- a prayer for understanding and that compassion of which I spoke.

We can do well in this country. We will have difficult times; we've had difficult times in the past; we will have difficult times in the future. It is not the end of violence; it is not the end of lawlessness; it is not the end of disorder.

But the vast majority of white people and the vast majority of black people in this country want to live together, want to improve the quality of our life, and want justice for all human beings who abide in our land.

Let us dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world.

Let us dedicate ourselves to that, and say a prayer for our country and for our people.

http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/speeches/rfk_mlk.html

[Robb]

5. Wrong speech, gunner.

The speech you "repackaged" from my original post to mysteriously not include any mention of guns in your post was given the next day.

Shameful. Unsurprising.

[The Straight Story]

8. Shameful? Hmmm take a look in the mirror

You seem obsessed with what a small group does, I am guessing perhaps you might have been wronged by such a person in some way (I could be wrong, but often we find folks buying into bias/stereotypes of a group when they have, in some way, been affected by that group).


You whine someone stole your op in a place they cannot post in anyway (as you yourself noted) - a place where the about says:

Statement of Purpose

Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment. The group serves as a safe haven in which to mobilize supporters in support of measures reducing gun violence by changing laws, culture and practice at the municipal, state, and federal levels. While there is no single solution to the tragic epidemic of gun violence, members agree that more guns are not the solution to gun violence, and are expected to be supportive of the policies of progressive gun control reform organizations.

Which is, if nothing else, vague as hell (probably intentionally). It uses the term Epidemic:

EPIDEMIC
1
: affecting or tending to affect a disproportionately large number of individuals within a population, community, or region at the same time

300 million in the US. 50 million or so own guns. Less than 1% use guns to harm others.

313 Million people
31,000 died by use of a gun (includes suicides - which I believe some here want to deny people the right to do), as far as killings: 11,078 homicides

Works out to 0.003% - hardly an epidemic.

50 million own guns, so 0.02% used them to kill others (if they each only killed one person).

You and others spend your time on what the very few do in an effort to paint them in a negative light and push fear of the over 99% out there who responsibly use and own guns.

You want shameful? Shameful is using such biases to incite fear and hate of the many based on the few. Whether it be minorities, religions, etc, we have - time and time again - seen the aftermath of promoting hate of a group. We have decried such methods when the right has used them and called it what it is - propaganda.

You want solutions and discussions? It does not seem like it since you spend most your time posting any story you can dig up to drag up emotional responses.

Lay out the laws you want passed, what you think they will accomplish, and if you will be satisfied and believe violence will ebb with the passing of such laws. And explain what you want to do further if such laws don't change the percentages listed.

Relying on emotional reactions and trying to goad people into knee jerk reactions in hopes they will pass feel good laws is both shameful and does nothing productive.

[yewberry]

11. If someone plagiarized a post of yours

but changed it just enough so that it changed the original meaning of your post, you would be fine with that?

I don't think you would.

And seriously, you criticize Robb because you disagree with the statement of purpose of a group? Are you fucking kidding?

[NYC_SKP]

14. Plagiarized?

You can't plagiarize what isn't original.

Some selected words from an existing speech, interspersed with Internet available pictures, posted on a discussion board.

Are you serious?

[The Straight Story]

15. Do tell

What was the original meaning of the post?

And yes, the statement of purpose is indeed telling. It really says nothing. But it is used to quiet the voices of people who do want to discuss issues but don't feel that the way to do so is to broad brush others and use bigotry to do so.

I, and others, would love to reduce crime in general - we just don't like to blame the tools of a criminal and use them for excuses.

Others want to hear that they can blame something and want to control the many based on the few - and they hide behind such statements of purpose.

[freshwest]

16. I stepped into this gentlemen's duel a bit late. My fault really. as I often respond to an OP and

don't read everyone else's opinion on and OP first to make up my mind as I have my own views. Thus I missed your complaint.

Your OP in GCAG is compelling, as is your rehash of it here, and shows the essential thinking process of gun control. But what NYC SKP posted above is my emembrance of the speech, and in those terrible days when it seemed America lost its chance to make our dreams of equality come true against the hatred of well-known reactionary forces. the JBS, KKK and CCC.

Until I saw your original, I never saw the gun reference and wondered how I'd missed it. I'd still say as I did in response to the link on NYC SKP's OP that sent me to your GCAG OP, that he did write something about violence.

I hope we are not saying that DUer NYC SKP refuses to admit that guns are part of the problem of violence in the USA. He may have put his foot in his mouth more than once, but many do.

His and your OP have the Sandy Hook pictres, and everyone knows that Medgar Evers, MLK, JFK and RFK were killed by guns. But in that era, we were not suffering from the current insanity of gun culture making a mockery of civil society, public safety and pushing to destroy democracy.

There were always elements of this in American society, but not what we have today, but we now know that the same people who are the JBS are in the patriot, libertarian and tea party groups.

They are in the open again, and just as shameless and hateful as they were when they cheered the death of JFK, MLK and JFK, etc. They have been calling for the death of liberals, progressives, Democrats and Preisdent Obama since 2008.

The poignancy and potency of these OPs stand on their own and I'm sorry to see this get off topic with bickering on DU. Some who are lurking may think we have lost sight of what's important.

Anyway, Peace Out to you guys.

All good threads, IMO, YMMV.

[JaneyVee]

4. The preamble to the 2nd Amendment kind of negates their point.

[Electric Monk]

6. k&r

especially for "oh, there's been another mass shooting, so let's talk about our favorite guns" guy

[Robb]

7. Kick. nt

[99Forever]

9. Sorry to nitpick...

.. but Bobby Kennedy was not killed by a sniper, his brother was. He was killed by a handgun in the hand of one Sirhan Sirhan in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel.

I only have two people I consider heroes, Bobby and John Lennon. Just want the facts to be correct.

[Robb]

12. Not a nitpick at all.

My mistake, I'll correct it.

[99Forever]

13. Thank you...

.. for taking it in the spirit intended. Bobby Kennedy awakened me to so much, his passion still lives in me (and others) today.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

10. Kick. (n/t)

[Jefferson23]

17. K&R